Notso Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Why isnt Ex in High Tier? He has one CC and one Armor Ignore ability. Why Isnt Loki God Tier? All his abilities work on all level mobs. Cal's CC ability is crap, it lasts no time at all and some enemies will still attack you under its effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombaio Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 (edited) Once again, it seems the single criteria on wich this tier list is high level defence. + I honestly, can't even imagine the paralel univese where Vauban is god tier. Edited July 13, 2013 by zombaio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notso Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Once again, it seems the single criteria on wich this tier list is high level defence. Why would you use anything else? If you can do high level defence you can can do anything, so high level defence is the only differential between Warframes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caosraider Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 I agree with the OP! Nova Sucks big time back to the drawing board guys it seriously needs to be fixed! She must be the weakest WF and I have most already. I wont be playing it again until she fixed up and would not recommend anyone to purchase it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notso Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 She must be the weakest WF and I have most already You obviously don't own Mag... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mak_Gohae Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Cal's CC ability is crap, it lasts no time at all and some enemies will still attack you under its effect. 5 seconds on Grineer, 12 on the rest, 14 meters + stretch. Attacking you while blinded was probably a bug or the graphical effect still on after the ability over, or people came in after the initial blast and it didnt get it. I never had some one suddenly attack me after the blast went off. I use this on the Infested to stop all the Ancients in one place to got nuts on them at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferriwind Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 (edited) Let's be real here. ***With the introduction of Constitution, (+knockdown recovery) and more importantly, +28% power duration, Rhino and Trinity need to be moved to high tier. Trinity's Link is one of the strongest offensive power if not the strongest against high level enemies, so your point about damage over tanking is not really valid at all. +58% power duration because Continuity and Constitution stack together *You have to use more than just defense because some abilities are better in defense than in normal missions. Snow Globe and Bastille. And I read your post that you do use other missions, I just wanted to add this. Rhino's Iron Skin isn't solely a 1200 free shield cushion. It also draws aggro which is important in a team and more so because Rhino has massive amounts of shields and health. One ability doesn't stop him from being in high tier no matter how unsatisfactory you think it is. Otherwise, your list is more biased than objective. Also 58% power duration makes his Rhino Stomp and Roar even more powerful. Trinity + longer Link = high tier. Mag needs to be moved to low tier. I just went from Vor to Ruk and while Mercury doesn't seem to have shields on its Grineer, Saturn, I think, does. Mag's Pull is also a good cc for teamplay and her Crush/Bullet Attractor is good for solo play. You want cooler, stronger magnetic powers, I also want the same thing. She could use better magnetic moves to go with Bullet Attractor, but moving her to low tier in an unbiased list will help the cause more than keeping her in the useless tier in a biased list. If only I could get a confirmation that Bullet Attractor can target Antimatter Drop and that the radius of explosion increases with higher matter spike. If not... DEScott, pls make it so. :) Although I don't have Vauban, after reading some of the comments, it makes sense for him to be moved down to high tier. He is only a god in infested defense missions and you know Frost is a god in the other defense missions.. so yea, I think it should happen. Although... now with 58% power duration, you can actually keep him there. There is support for either placement so it doesn't hurt your list. So it seems that Volt and Ember's elemental damage need additional effects to balance out enemy elemental resistances. Otherwise, I think their placement is fine. Excaliber still needs a bit of work on his abilities to reach high tier(mainly Super Jump) but Constitution also makes his Radial Blind, which is an amazing skill, even stronger. If only he had more base energy.... I think Super Jump needs to be a self buff and have a different additional group buff and Radial Blind needs to have a melee buff along with the stun. If it were up to me, I'd also make Radial Javelin strike diagonally into the ground from a point above Excal and debuff enemies in the aoe. Edited July 14, 2013 by Stygi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notso Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Rhino's Iron Skin isn't solely a 1200 free shield cushion. It also draws aggro which is important in a team and more so because Rhino has massive amounts of shields and health. One ability doesn't stop him from being in high tier no matter how unsatisfactory you think it is. Otherwise, your list is more biased than objective. Also 58% power duration makes his Rhino Stomp and Roar even more powerful. Explain how you get 58%... Also, drawing aggro is a death sentence at high levels given how quickly enemies eat through IS, shields, and health combined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YellowJet Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 This list isn't very well done. Its presented by one guy, with no validations behind it other than this random player opinion. It completely ignores the fact certain warframes excel at different roles, the tier system seems to simple be based on cc and speed killing. There are far more factors at play here, solo power, group power, skill ceiling potential, boss farming ability vs mob farming, stealth playthrough potential. There are a lot of factors, I don't think a unorganized tier list like this captures the real potential of the warframes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuripaff Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Why hello there! It's been a while but DE has finally started to adapt and balance some things. Once again Old-Timers and experienced players took votes to present you this brand new (not really lol) Tier List of Overall Usefulness! I'll start from the bottom. Mag - I must say... I was really excited when I've heard that Scott is going to buff/change Mag after our gigantic feedback. We all hoped that our poor and useless Waifu-Based Frame will be at least in the Mid Tier. Sadly... she was only tweaked. Just a little. So her useless skills became useless AoE skills. Her metagame is still THE worst of all Frames. Maybe we didn't stated clearly what we really want. You can't fix Mag, she's too broken. But you can scrap her 3 useless skills and create 3 new one. With some awesome mechanic, useful and versatile. It doesn't matter how much you buff these useless crap skills, they'll stay useless because their mechanic is useless. For example: you can make Shield Polarize with Global range and with 100% Shield Reduction on all enemy targets - it's still useless because their shields have insignificant ammounts to start with. Therefore the entire idea of shield EMP is a failure in the game like that. Final Verdict: Useless AoE Tier Final Feedback: She can't be tweaked in her current form. I'd think about creating new skills for her. Magnetism as a power is a gold mine of ideas... but somehow you've menaged to make it boring as hell. Volt - With this Frame problem was always the same: Scaling System. Enemies are very resistant against his type of damage after level ~25. DE has nerfed Ancients Lightning Resistances but Volt's Ulti still hits them for ~30 damage at higher levels (higher, not high). Shock is still not worth of its Energy Cost. Speed is nice but it's not that easy to stay close to eachother so maybe a little Radius buff would help here. It would be nice if he had some special "paralyze" debuff with his skills. Semi-Crowd_Control of some kind. But the main problem is still the same, resists. Final Verdict: Low Tier Final Feedback: You don't have to "buff" him too much... but resists and scaling could use some serious changes. Shock needs either reducted cost, increased damage or "Paralyze" the targets for some time. I always liked the idea of Energy Shield changed into Energy Dome (similar to Frost)... that would instantly put him higher on the list. Rhino - Only his crappy Iron Skin is keeping him away from the High Tier. Cheap mobility skill with nice damage. AoE Damage Buff, Crowd Control Ulti with a blast... if only his Iron Skin wasn't so weak... But overall nice change. He's almost the Rhino we all loved once... almost... Final Verdict: Mid Tier (Would-Be High Tier if not his Useless Skin) Final Feedback: Change the Iron Skin hurr durr. It's not scaling, it's not that strong. And later on it's a deathwish, enemies will rip you into little pieces after one second if you use that. 1200 "Shield" is nothing with this damage scaling. Again... Mob scaling is the problem... it's almost like in the early days of Diablo 3... Nova - Two words: Desing Council. You can't expect that so many people will create something that is good or even logical. She was supposed to be "Antimatter-Based Frame" but screw this, Wormhole! It's like with cooking, DE allowed eveyone to pick their favourite thing and then they've mixed it together into something disgusting (Translation note: Disgusting means "Useless"). Her damage is WEAK, she doesn't scale above level 25 (Ember Syndromre hrhr) and her Ulti is one of the worst in the game mechanic-wise. You have to cast it... then you have to kill the target... and then finally goes the chain explosion. Way too weak and not satysfying. But that's probably because of the... YUP... armor scaling. Final Verdict: Low Tier (But of course. Desing Council are not Game Developers. How could they desing something better than this...generic Damage Dealer that doesn't scale.) Final Feedback: She's like Ember. Nice to some point (so is any other Frame), but alter on she's starting to fall behind... fast. I don't even know what needs to be done to change that. Armor Ignore? Some utility? I got nothing. I can only hope that's the last the when developers allowed the Community to create their own Frame. This concludes the changes. All other Frames are in the same Tier as before. Tho Frost and Nyx are in the High Tier it doesn't mean they are "perfect". Nyx Ulti is still terrible and Frost skills are also useless after a certain level is reached (Only Globe is always awesome). As always I'll gladly read and respond to any constructive feedback. This means I will not respond if you'll just type "I disagree, X should be X Tier and X should be X Tier". That's not constructive. Explain us why you think so, not only what you think! PS. Ash once again almost ended up in the Low Tier. He could really use some theam_usefulness-based changes. PS2. Vauban can't hear you over the sound of how awesome he is. PS3. To all people who will soon say "Trinity is God Tier because she can be immortal": This game is not about immortality. It's about fast killing large ammount of enemies, defending the Cryopod and Speedrunning. Energy Vampire is nice - that's right. But that's it, she can't offer anything else. Healing? If you need HP Heal it means you've screwed something up in the first place. And there are regenerating Shields so it's not that great. PS4. Please be polite and respect opinion of the others. If you disagree - use the power of logic and feedback and prove them wrong. If you agree - thumbs up. TL;DR: New "Usefulness" Tier List is finally here. Mag still sucks. Volt still sucks. Nova is generic and weak. Rhino is almost High Tier! Please be constructive about your feedback, it's important. This is all your opinion mate. Most of it I don't agree with especially the Nova. She is amazing. You sound like a little cry baby who knows almost nothing about the game. Go do high level defense missions and high level plants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notso Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 This is all your opinion mate. Most of it I don't agree with especially the Nova. She is amazing. You sound like a little cry baby who knows almost nothing about the game. Go do high level defense missions and high level plants. Oh gawd the irony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferriwind Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 (edited) Explain how you get 58%... Also, drawing aggro is a death sentence at high levels given how quickly enemies eat through IS, shields, and health combined. 58% is from the new nightmare mod Constitution(maxed +28%) along with Continuity(maxed +30%). They stack. My Loki got about 19 secs of Invisibility(maxed) with them combined. Tested it just now in the basis that Invisibility(maxed) gets a 12 sec duration. Drawing aggro is a death sentence at high levels, but going into high levels without Snow Globe, Bastille, or other reliable aoe cc/protection power is also a death sentence. Iron Skin works great with Snow Globe because you can alternate between two globes and Rhino can hold aggro for a indefinite amount of time. Any aggro is weaker than cryopod aggro. This is all your opinion mate. Most of it I don't agree with especially the Nova. She is amazing. You sound like a little cry baby who knows almost nothing about the game. Go do high level defense missions and high level plants. Should've snipped the quote. Jeezus ****. ----------------------------------------------- Also Mag Bullet Attractor on Trinity Link = Sit and cast in high level Grineer/Corpus? Edited July 14, 2013 by Stygi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notso Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 58% is from the new nightmare mod Constitution(maxed +28%) along with Continuity(maxed +30%). They stack. My Loki got about 19 secs of Invisibility(maxed) with them combined. Tested it just now in the basis that Invisibility(maxed) gets a 12 sec duration. Drawing aggro is a death sentence at high levels, but going into high levels without Snow Globe, Bastille, or other reliable aoe cc/protection power is also a death sentence. Iron Skin works great with Snow Globe because you can alternate between two globes and Rhino can hold aggro for a indefinite amount of time. Thanks for the info. As for IS, yes you have a point, but using IS shouldn't increase your chances of dying when it's a protective skill... >_> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basilioss Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 If Absorb had aggro and damage multiplier, Nyx would be a whole world better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verazix Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 (edited) Eh? What? Rhino is below Banshee/Frost/Nyx? Even though they rely on only 1-2 good abilities each to place there? Rhino's abilities are amazing. No really, they are. He's the only frame in game that I can never see a point in -not- slotting every ability I have in every single situation (Loki is the next closest). Rhino Charge can be used for damage, mobility, and utility (with it's knockdown), while being cheap and easy to use. Iron Skin, when used as a supplement to normal tactics (cover namely), is just an added, cheap bonus to shields, that grants immunity to CC/Disruption and even blocks poison damage. It's no longer the tanking ability it once was, but it's definitely not something to scoff at. It could be worse, you could have Silence. Rhino Roar is amazing. For everything. Ever. It's great in Defense, great in boss runs, great in just simply clearing trash out. There should be no complaints about this ability at any point in time, especially since it scales with everything. Rhino Stomp, the best ultimate in game. It ignores armor (making it the second highest damage ultimate in the game for high end defense, the thing people believe you based this on), has the best range in game, and has an added CC effect of multiple seconds. The awkwardness of it's "ability in use" is my only complaint about this ability. Hell, it even has one of the shortest animations in game to come with it. So basically because Iron Skin is a shadow of itself, he is mid tier? Really? You mean the fact he's great in absolutely everything (damage/utility/defense) makes him useless? How should frames who have NO defense abilities feel (Vauban*/Banshee/Nova)? I get that IS isn't what it used to be, I get that there's a nasty double standard there too (Trinity/Ember namely). But Rhino is far from "mid tier." He has no weak ability at all, and all his damage abilities scale well because they all ignore armor, while still retaining their CC effects. I love Rhino, I miss the old IS, and I do feel IS needs to be made into a tanking ability rather than a CC immunity (which is really what it's for now). I have no recommendations how to do that at the current point in time, but it's not anywhere near as bad as everyone makes it out to be, and I've used it to the point it's cleaned off in milliseconds in Grineer Endless Defense. I won't be discussing IS further as I don't want to start an argument over what it should/shouldn't be, but it's kind of sad to see this obvious bias go around for one of the single best "all around" frames in the entire game. He's far from low tier being able to easily replace Saryn/Banshee in a high end defense mission of any type, he's just as good in Grineer/Corpus as Vauban (arguably better in Grineer due to the armor ignore Rhino Stomp), and far better than Frost in Infested. Even if you just look at overall, Rhino is good for -everything- in the game (except that new drone boss, I guess~). The "high tier" frames are all pretty weak in comparison to him overall, and even on Defenses he can hold his own with two of them in every circumstance. I really feel bad for Frost. His abilities are all generic, boring, and weak in comparison to others, with one exception. And yet we all act like he's one of the best frames in the entire game. I just don't get it. Poor Frost, Snow Globe will always be all you're ever -really- there for. Disclaimer: This is in no way a "nerf Rhino" post, I rather like the big guy. It's just a "No he's not as bad as you say he is all because one ability isn't what you want it to be" post. Though, as stated in the thread itself, IS is not currently a tanking ability. Can you please make it one DE? *Vauban's CC can be seen as "defense" since it's so powerful, but due to the fact it's hard to CC tons of ranged attackers at once I did not include it. Edited July 14, 2013 by Verazix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shisuih Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 why isn't emeber higher? :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notso Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 why isn't emeber higher? :( Poor scaling..? ?.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoyuTheTrinity Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 (edited) trinity is low tier she cant support anymore with the high damage the enemies and the slow casting nature of her blessing Edited July 14, 2013 by MoyuTheMedic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoon Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 trinity is low tier she cant support anymore with the high damage the enemies and the slow casting nature of her blessing Trinity is a AMAZING tank and great support for nightmare runs learn to mod properly and you wouldn't have issues -_- makes t3 cake walks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sesshou01 Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 trinity is low tier she cant support anymore with the high damage the enemies and the slow casting nature of her blessing Or you can just precast blessing to enjoy the invincibility. Its 10 seconds just from max blessing, theres 58% longer duration from mods and I think that hideous helmet adds more. You pretty much have enough time to use energy siphon to get back the energy to recast invincibility before the invincibility even drops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pain4u Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 (edited) http://warframepoll.blogspot.com/ <--- i've created polls there every single warfrmae, since i couldn't do that on warframe forums for unknown reasons >.> http://warframepoll.blogspot.com/2013/07/tier-list-update-9-by-people-for-people.html - general list (requires log in to facebook/twiter i think, though im not sure!) http://warframepoll.blogspot.com/2013/07/boss-exterminators-warframe-update-9.html - boss killers tier! Anyway Vote and enjoy. By the people for the people! No more tier lists out of nowhere! Just remember it looks doesnt count :D just their usefulness! Send it to your friends, to your clan. Let's make nice tier list every update :) More polls will come in fallowing days when i'll have some time :) Edited July 14, 2013 by pain4u Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TunaMayo Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Null Star - at minimum puts out 1500 damage for 25 power, at maximum 9000. Don't have to control it, targets well itself. Antimatter Drop - With a good weapon can hit for anywhere between 3-30k and higher. Wormhole - meh teleport Molecular Prime - Huge damage, only starts to drop off at one shotting ancients/heavies around levels 100+, but stacking primes still wipes waves. And yet you think this is Low Tier? I feel you have rushed your impressions of Nova and need to play more and/or update your list. At very least she is mid tier, if not high tier. AM drop is very good if you have a decent gun (acrid) but wormhole could use a few tweaks. TL:DR Sorry, you got nova wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omagawolf Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 It would be nice if you put categories by what kind of situation. Like one poll for defence, one for bosses, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pain4u Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 (edited) good thinking will work on it:> lets call this one as general one, ill make others in a sec:P or few minutes cause it takes some time^^ Edited July 14, 2013 by pain4u Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebearcavalry Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 I went and voted, but the facebook login and post to wall interfaces were pretty annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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