Update 9 Was Rushed And I'm Not Happy With It

[Notso]

Do people tend to forget that they are playing a Beta?

 

So he should just forget all the things he thinks need to be improved added or fixed because of this?

[Shezo]

The game has changed dramatically since May even. It's going to dramatically change again and again over the next 3 months.

 

Are we playing the same game ?

[MrHeartless]

What people are not seeing, as some have alluded to, is that this game is being prepped for console launch sometime around the PS4's launch date later in the year. DE is not a huge team but even for a massive and talented team working on the PC development of an MMO while at the same time trying to convert those same developmental systems into something usable by our console colleagues puts an incredible strain and drain on their resources. They are only human, and while I agree with every single point the OP made(especially as it relates to there not being a pickup log), I cant help but feel like they are under too much pressure right now to tackle all of these different things at once.

 

For weeks I was under the impression that Update 9 would have fixed alot of the major bugs while enhacing the core gameplay mechanics. That's what we were told from both DE in their livestream and also from the whiny fanboys who lynched anyone who had anything negative to say about the state of the game, much like they are doing now. To my surprise, upon reading the patch notes it appears that they embarked on some pretty ambitious changes, most of which are good ideas, but that you can obviously tell were rushed and did not go through thorough analysis and tweaking.

 

All I can say now is brace yourself because the next couple months will be alot of this as they rush to get the game ready for PS4's launch.

Edited July 13, 2013 by MrHeartless

[NessOnett]

Which is exactly what the OP has done.

 

All the posts like this I see are so contradictory, as most of them are directed towards people in such a manner that says, essentially, "please don't give us any feedback if it's constructive criticism because the game is in beta and isn't a finished product". Beta testing is exactly what these kinds of threads are for.

 

No, it is not at all what he's done. Directionless whining in the form of "everything was rushed, nothing works"(which is effectively all the OP says) doesn't actually give any feedback. The Devs know there are bugs, and they are working to fix them. Making a thousandth thread about known bugs in a manner that facilitates zero discussion is harmful.

 

And that's the problem DE is forced to sift through all this filth to get through to any actual CONSTRUCTIVE(this is the key word) criticism.

 

Actual helpful feedback would things such as: "The scaling of enemies on lower level planets may have been set too high as new players are having difficulty advancing." Compared to what is actually written which is: "Why do I have to put time into this game to level? I want the best weapons and every frame handed to me from the moment I install."

 

 

 

 

All of this is ignoring of course the obvious fact that the OP is complaining(another key word, in that it's the wrong thing to do) specifically about the fact that DE is releasing unpolished content. He's not proposing any way to better it. Just saying "Why don't I have everything, and why isn't everything perfect." And that's it. He is complaining specifically that the beta is a beta. Since the things he's crying about ARE the definition of a beta.(And by "he", I likely mean "you on your other account.")

Edited July 13, 2013 by NessOnett

[Narroo]

Yeah, that's one thing that confuses me.  Isn't the whole point of a beta test to fix the game and improve it?  So shouldn't we be listing every whine and gripe we have so it can be fixed?

[Notso]

No, it is not at all what he's done. Directionless whining in the form of "everything was rushed, nothing works"(which is effectively all the OP says) doesn't actually give any feedback. The Devs know there are bugs, and they are working to fix them. Making a thousandth thread about known bugs in a manner that facilitates zero discussion is harmful.

 

And that's the problem DE is forced to sift through all this filth to get through to any actual CONSTRUCTIVE(this is the key word) criticism.

 

Actual helpful feedback would things such as: "The scaling of enemies on lower level planets may have been set too high as new players are having difficulty advancing." Compared to what is actually written which is: "Why do I have to put time into this game to level? I want the best weapons and every frame handed to me from the moment I install."

 

 

 

 

All of this is ignoring of course the obvious fact that the OP is complaining(another key word, in that it's the wrong thing to do) specifically about the fact that DE is releasing unpolished content. He's not proposing any way to better it. Just saying "Why don't I have everything, and why isn't everything perfect." And that's it. He is complaining specifically that the beta is a beta. Since the things he's crying about ARE the definition of a beta.(And by "he", I likely mean "you on your other account.")

 

OP:

- Asked for UI overhaul and gave several areas where the current one is lacking [and by extension, what needs to be improved]

- Asked for better QOL in the mod system, and made suggestions on how QOL could be improved

- Asked for more retroactive changes to existing Warframes, pointing out areas which need improvement

- Asked for more lore

- Asked for the mod pool not to be inflated with under-performing mods [and by extension asked that if this couldn't happen that said under-performers be improved]

- Asked for Pistol and Melee crit mods to have some function, and explained that they are useless currently because there are no weapons that support them as a viable build

 

krisp's attitude leaves a lot to be desired, but at its core the OP was full of constructive criticism.

 

However, given your closing parenthesis, I imagine nothing I say will convince you otherwise because you already have it in your head that I've an agenda to prove. Seriously brother, no need for ad hominem.

Edited July 13, 2013 by Notso

[NessOnett]

OP:

- Asked for UI overhaul and gave several areas where the current one is lacking [and by extension, what needs to be improved]

- Asked for better QOL in the mod system, and made suggestions on how QOL could be improved

- Asked for more retroactive changes to existing Warframes, pointing out areas which need improvement

- Asked for more lore

- Asked for the mod pool not to be inflated with under-performing mods [and by extension asked that if this couldn't happen that said under-performers be improved]

- Asked for Pistol and Melee crit mods to have some function, and explained that they are useless currently because there are no weapons that support them as a viable build

 

That's exactly my point. Every bullet started with "asked" and then went on to list something new. In effect every single point was asking for new content(rebalancing of old content is effectively new content).

 

Nothing he stated had anything to do with any feedback for U9. It was all just asking for new stuff. Aka, crying that the game in beta is unfinished. Not a single word of anything constructive.

 

(on a sidenote, Twin Vipers are one of the highest DPS sidearms in the game, and are so because they function very well with crit mods)

[Notso]

That's exactly my point. Every bullet started with "asked" and then went on to list something new. In effect every single point was asking for new content(rebalancing of old content is effectively new content).

 

Nothing he stated had anything to do with any feedback for U9. It was all just asking for new stuff. Aka, crying that the game in beta is unfinished. Not a single word of anything constructive.

 

The fact that you think it was unrelated to the content released in U9 is irrelevant as to whether or not it is constructive feedback. Personally, as U9 was promised to bring most of these things the OP asked for, I think he's quite justified as listing them as flaws 

 

"criticism or advice that is useful and intended to help or improve something, often with an offer of possible solutions"

 

Fits perfectly.

[NessOnett]

The fact that you think it was unrelated to the content released in U9 is irrelevant as to whether or not it is constructive feedback. Personally, as U9 was promised to bring most of these things the OP asked for, I think he's quite justified as listing them as flaws 

 

"criticism or advice that is useful and intended to help or improve something, often with an offer of possible solutions"

 

Fits perfectly.

 

How is "I want more" in any way constructive? That's all he said. End of story. If the Devs said these things were coming then guess what, THEY'RE COMING! Crying about them in every thread isn't going to make them come any faster. It's not offering advice. It's not giving feedback. It's doing nothing but making yourself look like a narcissitic jackass who thinks the world revolves around them because "I want everything and I want it now."

[Notso]

How is "I want more" in any way constructive? That's all he said. End of story. If the Devs said these things were coming then guess what, THEY'RE COMING! Crying about them in every thread isn't going to make them come any faster. It's not offering advice. It's not giving feedback. It's doing nothing but making yourself look like a narcissitic jackass who thinks the world revolves around them because "I want everything and I want it now."

 

We're obviously at an impasse.

[xenapan]

I was under the impression that Update 9 was a general patch that would improve the core gameplay experience. I was a bit surprised when I heard you were going to release it so early. So you did, and what we got was only a half-assed patch with the title "update 9" strapped to it.

 

That tends to be the issue with DE. It's been the case for every single major patch. I assume this update 9 was to hopefully stem the majority of the population that was getting bored and leaving. Update 8 was WAITframe. not alot of people wanted to play it because of all the waiting involved. days for building dojo connectors (not to mention the stupid amount of resources)  and the scaling took them until U9 to release... that basically made every small clan want to wait. And from what I observed we dipped from like 14k players to 9k players losing close to 40% of the playing population (at least according to steam) they had to stem the tide fast. That and the resurfacing of plat for credits along with plat for resources seems to indicate they are running behind budget. Best way to get people to buy stuff is to keep them playing. e.g. key packs with new prime weapons in the new orokin void mission types. DE has always been break then fix rather than test then release + people getting bored and leaving  + I assume income projection shortfalls = early, unpolished release.

[benfires]

Well. Does no one notice the new infested tilesets are badly bugged?
(Seriously, me and my friend were playing Earth-Eurasia, and got crashed midway. But not before some REALLY bad graphical spikes, even if nothing changed on screen. We played a bunch of other non-infested maps with no problems.)

Anyways, they should perhaps add a function of animation time scaling. It's kinda annoying when you only have like, 20 seconds left to configure mods and you HAVE to sit through the "fancy UI" rolling effect.

 

Just my two cents.

[Perfectionest]

Funny fact : Humans are always unhappy and complaining, no matter what you do.

[HappyThanksgivingPilgrim]

my name is pwnyexpress69 and i approve this post

[RoboDoge]

I am just afraid that Warframe PC version became test polygon for PS4 one. Feels that way. I dont understand people who are saying that U9 brought new content? What new content?

Recycled weapons ( using same model as old one and changing graphic model is so hard to code ), increased difficuly ( that is also so hard to code ), adding resources to market ( so DE you want people to play less? ), not changing AI for better ( imo something that really needs rework ), Anti-matter frame that doesnt have any similarities with what anti-matter does ( someone is braindead ) and at last new missions types for void ( so creative, just take old content and give it new game modes ).

Oh and how i could forgotten lore, making 4 lines of lore in 4 months must be really hard.

I am just disappointed because DE hyped U9 as something new and fresh with abundance of new stuff and it was same old stale content. U8 was good and it brought pretty amazing Void missions and Prime weapons, but U9 just brought more meh content.

 

So my conclusion after U): Either DE doesnt know what they want this game to become, or they are using us as test subject for PS4 version.

All this is forcing me to take some rest from this game as i dont see any point in grinding same stuff in different package.

[krisp]

How is "I want more" in any way constructive? That's all he said. End of story. If the Devs said these things were coming then guess what, THEY'RE COMING! Crying about them in every thread isn't going to make them come any faster. It's not offering advice. It's not giving feedback. It's doing nothing but making yourself look like a narcissitic jackass who thinks the world revolves around them because "I want everything and I want it now."

You seem to be horribly cherry-picking my points into something completely different from what I intended them and completely different from what they are. Don't put words in my mouth, please.

 

On that note, look up what constructive means since you're tossing it around without having any idea.

 

I'm allowed to complain. Complaints are a valid form of feedback, and no repeated use of the word "keyword" will ever conjure up a reality in which they are not.

 

Improving the core game is one of my concerns because it hampers my ability to play and my continued enjoyment of the game. I can and will "just quit" if this happens, in fact I've been playing on-and-off for the past few months. But before that, I still like this game and if there's any chance that I can have some of my issues addressed I will take it. And, of course, I can also let off steam by expressing my disappointment.

 

Now will you please stop your obnoxious pretending that what I said isn't "valid" just because you don't like the way I said it. You're going through some rather complicated mental gymnastics with your blatant ignoring of the details of the OP.

Edited July 14, 2013 by krisp

[Lexantru]

Bumping this because I'm having these and more issues with the game. 

DE, Just get a couple of people into a room and call them the "Hotfix Team". I'm sure that if they focus enough on bugs and smaller things like a couple of issues posted here (such as the material description thingy) we could get the game into a decent state and consequentially you will get more players enticed. Space Ninjas are pretty cool but the metagame has some really unnerving problems right now which hamper it.

 

[NessOnett]

You seem to be horribly cherry-picking my points into something completely different from what I intended them and completely different from what they are. Don't put words in my mouth, please.

 

On that note, look up what constructive means since you're tossing it around without having any idea.

 

I'm allowed to complain. Complaints are a valid form of feedback, and no repeated use of the word "keyword" will ever conjure up a reality in which they are not.

 

Improving the core game is one of my concerns because it hampers my ability to play and my continued enjoyment of the game. I can and will "just quit" if this happens, in fact I've been playing on-and-off for the past few months. But before that, I still like this game and if there's any chance that I can have some of my issues addressed I will take it. And, of course, I can also let off steam by expressing my disappointment.

 

Now will you please stop your obnoxious pretending that what I said isn't "valid" just because you don't like the way I said it. You're going through some rather complicated mental gymnastics with your blatant ignoring of the details of the OP.

 

I didn't cherry pick, every single thing you said fell under that category. I put no words in your mouth. Just listed word for word what you already said.

 

Constructive:

adjective

1.

constructing or tending to construct; helping to improve; promoting further development or advancement (opposed to destructive ): constructive criticism.

 

In no way what you did. Look up things yourself if you don't know what they mean. Telling them to speed up things they are already working on doesn't help to construct. At worst it makes them come out faster than they should be and have copious bugs...the other thing you complain about(you see how you're playing both sides here? Which again is extremely unhelpful).

 

Complaints are not feedback. Complaints are complaints. Complaints about things that CAN be changed with feedback on HOW they can be changed would be feedback. But you did neither of these things.

 

What you said isn't valid. Fact. And no amount of pretencious condescending will change that. Unless you heavily edit your OP, it's all just directionless whining about things that are already being worked on.

 

 

 

But I'll leave now if all you want to do is circle-jerk with your friends. I'm certain DE has already blackmarked this thread as useless crying. And you seem to be too prideful and ignorant to accept criticism yourself on how to properly criticize(expected irony). So now matter how plainly I spell this out with cold hard facts, all you'll do is get defensive and refuse to listen. So now I give you permission to get in all the verbal abuse and last words you want. You seem to be the kind of person that REALLY needs that internet "win" to keep their psyche together.

Edited July 14, 2013 by NessOnett

[krisp]

 

snip

 

Man, I don't know if you really like the sound of your own voice that much, or you really believe that you can make anything happen as long as you *really* think it's that way.

 

I can already see you're so entrenched in your mentality that it's going to take way more than I can say to convince you otherwise. Fine, have it your way. All I'm doing is whining for absolutely no reason, DE has already ignored me on the forums, Notso is my second account, and I'm furthering a secret agenda to bring the irrational chaos of Wonderland into the world of the living. All you ever say is facts that you place with pinpoint precision like a sniper using logic for ammunition. All of the definitions bow to your greater mental state for there has truly been no one as right as thee.

 

Meanwhile in the real world, the more this stays up the higher the chance devs will notice it.

[Kindanoob]

I am just afraid that Warframe PC version became test polygon for PS4 one. Feels that way. I dont understand people who are saying that U9 brought new content? What new content?

Recycled weapons ( using same model as old one and changing graphic model is so hard to code ), increased difficuly ( that is also so hard to code ), adding resources to market ( so DE you want people to play less? ), not changing AI for better ( imo something that really needs rework ), Anti-matter frame that doesnt have any similarities with what anti-matter does ( someone is braindead ) and at last new missions types for void ( so creative, just take old content and give it new game modes ).

Oh and how i could forgotten lore, making 4 lines of lore in 4 months must be really hard.

I am just disappointed because DE hyped U9 as something new and fresh with abundance of new stuff and it was same old stale content. U8 was good and it brought pretty amazing Void missions and Prime weapons, but U9 just brought more meh content.

 

So my conclusion after U): Either DE doesnt know what they want this game to become, or they are using us as test subject for PS4 version.

All this is forcing me to take some rest from this game as i dont see any point in grinding same stuff in different package.

You are right on the money that we are test subjects for the PS4. In my opinion DE is using all their resources for the PS4 port and that's why we don't see new content like maps, new enemies, better enemy AI.

Warframe is getting consolized. Lowest common denominator ! - that was originally designed for the PC platform and its audience of gamers has been "bastardised" to suit the lowest common denominator.(console)

 

 

Thank You Plasystation 4

Edited July 14, 2013 by Kindanoob

[wfrawn]

What's really bad about this update is that apparently it broke a core game feature that was working not perfectly, but well enough that it did not often cause major problems: networking.

I now have more problems with matchmaking than before, e.g. getting disconnected from squad while joining a mission and than hanging on "returing to main menu", and just now during a mission an actual game crash of which to alert box said it's internet related. On my end no internet problems except with Warframe.

[Drusus]

DE is using all their resources for the PS4 port and that's why we don't see new content like masps, new enemies.

Wait, what?

I have no love for the console dumbing down phenomena either kindanoob, but this statement is outright inaccurate.

We've seen numerous new maps and tiles repeatedly, patch after patch and hotfix after hotfix. The entirety of the Galleon and void sets leap to mind, and both were expanded in this update (and I think I've seen new Ice planet tiles too, but those could have just shown up while I was busy with working the past couple months)

Either way, either your statement here is not what you really meant or it's factually incorrect.

[Kindanoob]

Wait, what?

I have no love for the console dumbing down phenomena either kindanoob, but this statement is outright inaccurate.

We've seen numerous new maps and tiles repeatedly, patch after patch and hotfix after hotfix. The entirety of the Galleon and void sets leap to mind, and both were expanded in this update (and I think I've seen new Ice planet tiles too, but those could have just shown up while I was busy with working the past couple months)

Either way, either your statement here is not what you really meant or it's factually incorrect.

That's my opinion not a fact.

Edited July 14, 2013 by Kindanoob

[krisp]

That's my opinion not a fact.

It's a statement of fact though. The PS4 isn't what concerns me, Sony is likely funding the port and they said there's a separate team working on it.

[Tulzscha]

I'm in agreement with the OP. I was under the impression that U9 would be a massive polish update, fixing most of the bugs that were killing the fun in the game. But instead what we got was a massive content update which feels rushed (don't get me wrong, MOAR content is always good) with little in the way of the promised "polish".

 

So the planets UI is now much better, that's something I'm happy they improved. 

 

But what about these that were sorely in need of a fix/improvement?

 

- Strict NAT/matchmaking/contacts list bugs were ignored

- we still don't have the ability to adjust contacts list/chat window size

- the in-game UI is still the same with the energy number indicator being too small

- mod UI remains the same, still a hassle to move mods between frames/weapons

 

U9 brought with it its own share of more bugs to add to the pile:

 

- new Aura system for artifacts...yet in a lobby no one can see which Aura your teammates have (can't believe they overlooked this)

- incorrect descriptions for the new Nightmare dual mods

- crash bugs for the new gametypes e.g. mobile defense in the Grineer Galleon Tileset (I've read the same happening for void too)