Build Input VUABAN

[Devious_Machine]

Just would like some input. Trying to think which is the better general use build. Build focuses more on 4, but still thinking about use of 3, limited energy gen since not running zin most of the time.

Mod Changes:

Fleeting Exp (Set-up 1) / Constitution (Set-up 1)
VS
Streamline (Set up 2) / Stretch (Set up 2) 

3 Differences:

MAX 4 Enemies Per

Set up 1:
30 cost
33.3 dur   0.9~ EPS*
12.4 range

Set up 2:
53 cost
38.1 dur   1.39~ EPS*
16.9 range

4 Difference:

15 Casts to reach max with perpetual

Set up 1:                         With Perpetual:
40 cost                            600 After 15
26.64 dur  1.5~ EPS*       266.4 max  2.25~ EPS*
6.68 range

Set up 2:
70 cost                            1050 After 15
30.48 dur  2.3~ EPS*       304.8 max  3.44~ EPS*
7.8 range

*EPS: Energy a second

Edited May 3, 2017 by Devious_Machine

[Rolunde]

OK let's see if I can be any help here. ;-)
_{Now, keep in mind all of this will be IMO of course!}

Personally, I always favor cheaper/lower ability costs where possible. And imo it works very well with Vauban's abilities.

So of the 2 comparisons posted, I'd go with Set-up 1 over Set-up 2. 

I do wonder why use Constitution over Continuity though?
- Continuity provides more Duration for a lower capacity cost. 
- Constitution's knockback recovery is nice, but if Vauban is CC-ing everything then this should rarely if ever even come up.

(so if that's all the answer you want, there we go!)-(but if you want to know more, then keep reading)
 

But all that said, personally I wouldn't actually go with either of them.

Reason being, I'd prioritize equipping both Fleeting Expertise and Streamline over Constitution and/or Stretch.
- because this would allow you to spam powers. I know that might not be a pretty term to use and triggers some people, but it describes it best.
- you said you're going to have "limited energy" so cheaper powers available on demand is way better than much more costly, albeit longer lasting and farther reaching powers that are not as readily accessible. 
- - it doesn't do any good to be able to cast a 15 second Bastille/Vortex if costs 50-75 energy and you have 35 available.
- but if you use both Fleeting and Streamline to attain "max efficiency" (175%) then said Bastille/Vortex would only cost 19-25 energy.

Now that we're sipping from the energy pool, we're much more flexible and our powers are more readily available.

If you're hurting for Energy it's pretty nice if 1 energy orb = 1 cast of a power, vs say needing 2-3 orbs to do so.
http://warframe-builder.com/Warframes/Builder/Vauban/t_30_0300020030_5-2-4-8-8-5-55-1-4_f-f-55-5-5-8-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-8-14-f-f_56/en/1-0-20/0/f

Also, there have been several posts on the forums on this topic, but energy leeches are popping up in record numbers these days. What with various challenges, sorties, alerts, etc. And this will be especially true if you go against the Infested.

Speaking of the Infested, Ancients can make Vauban's powers seem a bit buggy or unreliable and usually the "fix" for this is to cast extra's of his powers. Overlapping Bastilles tend to work very well.

Now let's talk about powers. 

Vortex is a very good and fun power, but Bastille is Vauban's bread and butter skill.

A Vauban that doesn't Bastille is like an Excal that does not Blind. Once you get to high enough levels (and these are higher up Star Chart levels!) not using those powers will mean getting downed. 
Not only are they CC but they're also Survivability for these 2 frames. Even stacking Health, Sheilds and Armor will not save them from what's to come as missions scale up.
But their powers will.

So Bastille to live, Vortex because you like to.

Also, playing alongside a Vauban that does not Bastille is like "dude, what are you even doing man!"
Vortex is a fine choice if you're doing some Survival as maybe you don't want to be snagging up all the mobs in your extended range Bastille and slowing your progress there. 

And again low-cost casting means being able to throw out a new instance of his powers, which in Vauban's case means basically Doubling the Duration fo those powers.
It's not like he has some kind of a combo-counter that is getting reset like say Chroma, so Duration can come from recasting just fine.

Alright, now let's talk about Augment Mods.

I don't like or see the point behind Perpetual Vortex, I do however highly endorse taking Repelling Bastille.

Perpetual Vortex "increases its duration for every additional Vortex thrown into it."
-  OK, well throwing another Vortex already gives me More Vortex, so...? 
- Meanwhile, there is also this problem: "Enemies that remain within Vortex's nexus for an extended period of time may implode, yielding no loot or affinity." WUT?! Oh Hek No!

So we give up a mod slot to add duration by recasting the ability which simply casting the ability would create a new instance of that ability, this adding an instance which 100% refreshed the duration. And if we pile up too much duration we don't loot or affinity, the 2 things we really really want. Nah!
 

On the other hand Repelling Bastille patches holes in arguably Vauban's best power. And I mean it literally does that!
- Repelling Bastille repels new enemies when it reaches the maximum amount of enemies it can contain.
- - so this works great against Infested and no reason to take it off against other factions either. There are always mobs that want to close with you. And better to keep them out than not.
Also, since one fun side effect of using Repelling Bastille is that since Power Strength becomes much less of a factor, again especially against Infested,
 we can take Overextended to boost Range by quite a bit.

Also, max efficiency allowing us to cast powers twice as often (or more) also effectively doubles the range of all our powers. In fact, it does even better than that because we can place the extra casting where we need them, rather than adding extra range where it might not even be being used.

OK so the long response is already long, I'll wrap it up here and include some screenshots of builds I am using in-game if there's any interest.
Also, here's a super budget build using the core eff, dur, range mods, just to show costs and all that.
http://warframe-builder.com/Warframes/Builder/Vauban/t_30_0300020030_4-6-5-5-2-4-8-8-5-14-5-5-55-1-4-460-7-3_f-f-55-5-5-8-f-f-f-f-14-5-4-9-460-9-8-14-f-f_56/en/1-0-20/0/f

Spoiler

OK, my Vauban build does have some Forma, but this was to allow me to use Primed Mods and also put him on par with Vauban Prime as far as polarities go.
Also, I do have Redirection on 2 of them, but as you can see on the 3rd it can totally be replaced with Overextended.

 

So I hope there is some helpful info among all of that, haha

Cheers and happy hunting Tenno!
~R~

[Devious_Machine]

The question was more range vs duration. I'm using perpetual because with it on long endless missions I can set a spot on lock down for an entire wave and never have to return to watch the spot. The mod differences are just two mods I am already using a lot of duration mods. I've stopped using repelling because it only repels ea enemy once. I replaced it with intensity. The idea is why cc 4 enemies and knock other down for a second if I can cc 8 for the same duration. It also makes spam casting more efficient since it multiplies how many can be cc'd faster. I don't like your builds because they lack duration. Your energy usage per second is only slightly lower than mine, but you have to recast which runs into the problem of if you get energy sapped by magnetic procs. Also why redirection instead of steal fiber. The difference is only like 40 EHP (with your passive) but regaining health is much easier than shield (hirudo or lifestrike EG).

[ashrah]

this was my 2 build.. i use quick thinking.primed flow.streamline4 fleeting 4.stretch.primed continuity.narrow minded.. and augment for 4...

and second one is for endless missions...quick thinking.primed flow.steamline4.fleeting4.overextended.strtch.primed continuity.narrow minded and augment for 3.. this build is pretty much 100+ waves def

[Rolunde]

11 minutes ago, Devious_Machine said:

The question was more range vs duration. I'm using perpetual because with it on long endless missions I can set a spot on lock down for an entire wave and never have to return to watch the spot. The mod differences are just two mods I am already using a lot of duration mods. I've stopped using repelling because it only repels ea enemy once. I replaced it with intensity. The idea is why cc 4 enemies and knock other down for a second if I can cc 8 for the same duration. It also makes spam casting more efficient since it multiplies how many can be cc'd faster. I don't like your builds because they lack duration. Your energy usage per second is only slightly lower than mine, but you have to recast which runs into the problem of if you get energy sapped by magnetic procs. Also why redirection instead of steal fiber. The difference is only like 40 EHP (with your passive) but regaining health is much easier than shield (hirudo or lifestrike EG).

5

re: Range vs Duration-

OK this is probably not actually going to be helpful but one over the is really just personal preference, imo.

Everyone has that amount of time that seems right to them. I've had builds where 1 second less just crossed the line on what felt right. So i'd really say to go with the one that feels right for you.

That said, I'd go Range over Duration since you're build concept is really about Vortex/Perpetual Vortex.
Since you're going Perpetual then you'll be stacking Duration already, where-as more Range means it'll pull in enemies from farther away. Thus making it "better".

And hey, one of the best things about Warframe is coming up with your own custom builds that totally does it for you!  ;-)

re: my build, Redirection vs Steel Fiber. I can swap them out easy enough. Sometimes I like to use Vauban to run Hijack missions, as I can leave a trail of Bastille's behind me and keep the machine powered up.

And energy draining procs, etc is exactly why I go with maxed efficient. Again, I don't think that one is better than the other, its basically 2 ways to deal with the same thing.

For me I'll need less energy to cast, if I lose energy I can recover more quickly to a "usable" level.
For you, your abilities will last longer, so you might have more time to regain that lost energy but will need more of it.
It's a lot like Streamline+(Primed) Flow vs Streamline+Fleeting Expertise (just with regards to energy consumption, not the effects on Duration of course!)

Cheers!
~R~