LeucienWeaver Posted July 20, 2013 Author Share Posted July 20, 2013 Maybe they could just make it so only master+ founders could post in design council , and all players could see council forum. From what's been said, it's been that, + wanting Community members a way to earn Dev Council vote privileges through forum or gameplay contributions, + making it so that they only see the first post, kind of like windowshopping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iValianT Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 From what's been said, it's been that, + wanting Community members a way to earn Dev Council vote privileges through forum or gameplay contributions, + making it so that they only see the first post, kind of like windowshopping. Just viewing the design council , and keep posting/voting to master+ exclusive CUZ MONIEZ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeucienWeaver Posted July 20, 2013 Author Share Posted July 20, 2013 Gingka2k10, on 19 Jul 2013 - 9:28 PM, said: CUZ MONIEZ! Tell me, what would happen if it were opened to everyone, voting wise? People would artificially affect the polls by use of alts or other shenanigans. It's worth noting that such logic has been the general consensus of both Community players and M/GM players... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iValianT Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 (edited) Tell me, what would happen if it were opened to everyone, voting wise? People would artificially affect the polls by use of alts or other shenanigans. It's worth noting that such logic has been the general consensus of both Community players and M/GM players... and keep posting/voting to master+ exclusive What part of my post dint you understand :o , normal members/lower TIER than masters could just view the forums for the sake of information. Edited July 20, 2013 by Gingka2k10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NalkorRN Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 What part of my post dint you understand :o , normal members/lower than masters could just view the forums for the sake of information.Lower than masters? Man, F*** you. You need to work on your communication skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeucienWeaver Posted July 20, 2013 Author Share Posted July 20, 2013 What part of my post dint you understand :o , normal members/lower than masters could just view the forums for the sake of information. Oh, I for some reason didn't realize that you were the poster for both that, and the bold, italicized post saying 'Cuz monies'; I thought that said post was done in an effort to troll. Mymistake, >.< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeucienWeaver Posted July 20, 2013 Author Share Posted July 20, 2013 Lower than masters? Man, F*** you. You need to work on your communication skills. I've been trying to get the term 'Community player' to catch on...Not sure if it too is offensive, but it still strikes better than non M/GM, which seems exclusion-heavy, and Free2Play, which implies no money put into the game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NalkorRN Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 (edited) I've been trying to get the term 'Community player' to catch on...Not sure if it too is offensive, but it still strikes better than non M/GM, which seems exclusion-heavy, and Free2Play, which implies no money put into the game...So because I don't pay for plat/Founder's package, I'm not a member of the community? Edited July 20, 2013 by NalkorRN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iValianT Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Oh, I for some reason didn't realize that you were the poster for both that, and the bold, italicized post saying 'Cuz monies'; I thought that said post was done in an effort to troll. Mymistake, >.< Its ok young padawan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeucienWeaver Posted July 20, 2013 Author Share Posted July 20, 2013 So because I don't pay for plat/Founder's package, I'm not a member of the community? ...Read it again, please... Community Player addresses the community as a whole. It leaves a better taste in my mouth than calling you a Free To Play player, or a Non-M/GM, as those are both offensive for their own reasons. I say it because I don't know whether someone's without a badge because of choice, a lack of money, a lack of interest in paying, or what. Don't twist my words to seem insulting, when i'm trying to be friendly, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inferno_Hamster Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Maybe he's just trying to troll you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeucienWeaver Posted July 20, 2013 Author Share Posted July 20, 2013 Still, it fills a needed question; What I should use to address those without M/GM status without degrading them or insulting them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NalkorRN Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Maybe he's just trying to troll you.No, he just needs to realize that some of his terms, innocent as they may be, will trigger some rather... hateful responses if someone sees them. 'Lower than masters' could easily be warped into some form of slavery. Not sure how, but this is the internet. Community players being paid only creates a very toxic mentality that if you aren't paying to support than game, you're a parasite who needs to go. I've got no beef with them terms at all personally, but adapting phrases like that will just create so many problems that the CMs will have to start locking threads left and right because of the kind of hate they'd generate once those phrases start getting used. Keep it simple: Paying players and Nonpaying players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeucienWeaver Posted July 20, 2013 Author Share Posted July 20, 2013 Except I wasn't the one to use 'Lower than masters', NalkoRN, so I don't understand his animosity to me. The thing is with that 'keep it simple' is that paying players don't include non-founding donators, disciple, or hunter pack players, and they too deserve the early information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongDraw Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Oh great, we got someone who's all for class status. Guess who else loved the ideas of lesser human beings? I shouldn't even have to name him and his supporters. Oh! I know this one! It was GOD wasn't it? Yeah, score one for sarcasm! But seriously, can we get back on topic now? What I think we really need is one of the upper DE staff to give us official word on what is and is not acceptable for members of the DC and what the consequences if any are possible for releasing information from a private development forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAWGUNITALPHA Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 But that's the thing, no one from the playerbase (DC or otherwise) has serious control over the game. That's not what the design council is at all. I have no doubt that DE is listening to everyone. The post I responded to that someone responded to in turn starting this minor discussion was saying that the design council should have more power and influence over the game and I said no. But I guess responding to posts without reading the discussion at hand is just easier... Yes that is it. Base your opinions off the statements of a few select individuals and cherry picked statements. Surely you are qualified to make a grand, sweeping, and laughably hypocritical statement like that. -.- Not really. There's nothing "select" or "cherry picked". The master/grand master posts are routinely full of elitism just look at how many people think paying money makes them better in this topic alone and I've yet to meet a grand master in-game in a random match who wasn't similar. I feel this has resulted in more than enough to form a pretty compact opinion on the general design council populace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeucienWeaver Posted July 20, 2013 Author Share Posted July 20, 2013 Not really. There's nothing "select" or "cherry picked". The master/grand master posts are routinely full of elitism just look at how many people think paying money makes them better in this topic alone and I've yet to meet a grand master in-game in a random match who wasn't similar. I feel this has resulted in more than enough to form a pretty compact opinion on the general design council populace. The thing is, you could be matched with a Grandmaster and not know it. The only ones who mention it treat it like it's a social status that makes them better than everyone, but I don't think i've ever said in a public game 'I'm Grandmaster', or anything of the sort, and i'm certain that there are many, many others that share in that idea, as to bring it up would be to treat it as a 'holier-than-thou' achievement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxangel7 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I don't understand OP's point. Everything gets leaked like .5 seconds after it's posted in the design council. almot 100% of the time it gets leaked to the main forum of this very website. So.....what's the problem? I see others say "make everyone vote". Sure why not. But then I expect the 50$ I spent to upgrade to master to be refunded to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeucienWeaver Posted July 20, 2013 Author Share Posted July 20, 2013 Lux, the point is that the Community players shouldn't have to hunt for their information. There are those that also wouldn't know where to look, or what is entailed in Dev Council, and having a small preview might push people into buying the 100$ Master package. In the case of it being leaked to the main forum for the site, people can taint that information, just as they could through other mediums, which is what spawned a hefty amount of rage in regards to Nova, and before that, the Mod change of U7. If the information were available where even those that weren't aware of it could find it, it would spark the interest in voicing their vote every so often, which would mean, as pointed above, paying 100$ or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxangel7 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 (edited) Lux, the point is that the Community players shouldn't have to hunt for their information. There are those that also wouldn't know where to look, or what is entailed in Dev Council, and having a small preview might push people into buying the 100$ Master package. In the case of it being leaked to the main forum for the site, people can taint that information, just as they could through other mediums, which is what spawned a hefty amount of rage in regards to Nova, and before that, the Mod change of U7. If the information were available where even those that weren't aware of it could find it, it would spark the interest in voicing their vote every so often, which would mean, as pointed above, paying 100$ or so. Yeah sure what you say sounds logical, but here's the problem: DE sold the "design council" as two things: 1) Get sneak peak at info about the game before anyone else 2) Get to vote on future content and decisions. Now due to the nature of the internet the first point is basically useless. As I said, stuff gets leaked almost instantly to this site and others as well. This is further exacerbated by the fact that due to PR and marketing considerations, they don't enforce any kind of exclusivity with the information that is released in the design council. But as I said, it would be difficult for them to even if they wanted to. So what you're proposing is that DE blatantly come out and say something that basically amounts to "we know we sold you this product for these two benefits, but because of "reasons" we're going to make one of those officially available to public free of charge. I'm sorry, I don't mean to come across as elitist or anything, but that would be a slap in the face to all the customers who purchased the master pack. It's one thing to come to terms on your own that an "exclusive" product you bought can't really be maintained as such because of various considerations. It's another for the person / entity who sold you the "exclusive" product to basically say "instead of maintaining the original selling promise, we're just gonna give up and make it officially free to everyone" Honestly, I really don't understand what the problem is here. Even if you think someone would be "coloring" the information that is leaked, it seems like a really weak or lame reason to make design council officially available to everyone. If people don't want to "risk" having leaked information "colored" then they can just buy a master pack. Edit: also don't forget that a lot of times there will be someone that will blatantly just make their own "poll" or "discussion" in general forum copying the exact purpose and information of what is in the design council. DE already expressed that they won't do anything even when someone so blatantly makes the "exclusivity" of the design council equal to zero, so I REALLY don't understand what the issue is here. Edited July 20, 2013 by LuxAngel7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAWGUNITALPHA Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I don't understand OP's point. Everything gets leaked like .5 seconds after it's posted in the design council. almot 100% of the time it gets leaked to the main forum of this very website. So.....what's the problem? I see others say "make everyone vote". Sure why not. But then I expect the 50$ I spent to upgrade to master to be refunded to me. Why were you buying the master pack for the ego-stroking benefits instead of to support the game anyway? DE can change S#&$ however they want because its still their game. If they wanted to face the outrage and utterly disband the founder program and remove the exclusive bonuses from the game, they're under no contract to give people their money back at all. What I'm getting at is, maybe you should found a game to support it instead of to get a bigger epeen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bro-dog Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 (edited) i don't give a S#&$ about the design council. it seems like the real reason they keep it in the dark is so they can sucker people out of a hundred+ bucks for something that sounds cooler than it actually is. nevermind all that "we want a focused source of feedback and discussion from our most passionate customers" nonsense people were posting earlier. you should get a job in advertising with that kind of bullS#&$ also anything designed by the general forums will be just as bad Edited July 20, 2013 by bro-dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyHobo Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Just get rid of the Design Council and make it so that everybody gets a say. It's not like that's not how it goes already since people leak it all :U This game is free, if you really think you deserve a say in how this game is developed. You should atleast purchase a founers package. It's less than buying a game at the store. I don't think people not willing to invest should have a say in a game they aren't dedicated too. Because most likely, they will end up going to another game. Or only recommending things that would benefit them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphyx Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 This game is free, if you really think you deserve a say in how this game is developed. You should atleast purchase a founers package. It's less than buying a game at the store. I don't think people not willing to invest should have a say in a game they aren't dedicated too. Because most likely, they will end up going to another game. Or only recommending things that would benefit them. What a heavily biased and narrow point of view. Practically every single person EVER suggests things that will benefit them rather than the future of the game/product. Not everyone can afford to buy even the disciple package, it doesn't mean they aren't dedicated to Warframe or its success. You limit what you take in as feedback by only listening to people who paid and you are severely limiting your demographic. Not only that but because they spent money on your product they are far more likely to have their own agenda for suggesting things, far more than someone who has paid nothing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyki11 Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 Meh, no reason to change things. People are making too big a deal of council "perks". I felt really offended when someone implied that being one vote out of a few thousand was buying power. If this is power, I feel scammed. (Bought founder to support game since release, not to vote.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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