Much Stagger, Stun Lock? - Anti-Lock Mechanic

[Vincer]

Ive seen complains about too much stagger and stun locks everywhere; It doesn't bug me since its really rare to occur to me (maybe luck, maybe i put too much effort on avoiding it) but i can see where it all come from. If were unlucky with the random spaws or a chasing mob grows more with other we can get surrounded by stun-stagger enemies to the point of being helpless.

 

The question is i don't want either mechanics going away and since DE seens to really catter to the community vocal requests (like the auras fast change for example) im afraid they tone it down or do some other kind of 'fix' that removes this thread from the game.

 

Im on the side that finds it fun, chanleging and needed, only thing that could change is the amount it can get sometimes... that is, getting to the botton of the matter the problem isn't stun, stagger or whatever but the stun locks, the moment where even escaping becomes too hard or impossible for some.

 

So why not a anti stun-lock mechanic in place? Call it something, lets say resilience (to not confuse with resistance).

 

Resilience: tracks the amount of stuns/staggers(and other mechanics to come that may fit here) from different sources; Beyond a certain cap the tenno adapts himself and 're-route' all his nano-biotech-stuff/stamina to resist it: the character becomes wraped in a white 'aura' (like capture and shield-recharge effect, only some other color) and for few seconds become imune to stagger/stun at the cost of disabled energy.

 

Thats only one example of course, other sort of 'anti' mechanics could work. The good thing i think is that this brings a bonus thing to the table: a new variable that some mod could tap onto.

 

So let's say the cap is quite big (to avoid making things to easy), but if you're one of the players that really can't stand it, get the mod that increase resiliance. It could also be writen in a compact and clear way at the mod, saying that beyond x stuns your warframe would resist (the 'fusion' description would explain that further ranks would decrease the cap). The maximum could go all the way to 2, so a player that really invests into it would only bother with one stun at a time.

Bad idea?

[Oizen]

I dont think any of the knockdown recover mods even work to make maters worse.

 

I have this http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Constitution

 

I've noticed nothing.

[his1nightmare]

Staggers my &#!. Knockdowns shalt be removed from this game entirely and this can't happen too soon.

[Vincer]

I have this mod but, the few times ive used it the lowest rank hadn't any noticeable change. Don't know if its working, but even if it is, it works very differently: recovery means you're already staggered/stunned; If you're in a stun lock that doesn't help.

 

Constitution: helps you prevent stun-lock; Smaller time wasted at stuns means less chance to be gang banged before the animation ends. If it happens you die helpless same way.

 

'anti-stun'(the idea here): Helps you get out of stun locks, either by too many enemies or too long in a stun lock.  You would get it as frequently, the difference is if you really cant countermeasure it the mechanic would prevent a frustrating death.

Its more like a 'anti-frustration counter measure', the moment the game notices the dammed stun-lock holding someone too long it would save your #@$, but only enought for you to move away to safety.

Edited July 20, 2013 by Vincer

[Oizen]

Shade actually really helps with stunlock. Im surprised people perfer deathcube to him.

 

When you get knocked down, shade will cloak you. And the enemies will stop stunlocking.

[Vincer]

That explains a lot, i run solos frequently and im always, always pushing my luck with harder missions and lower levels so i never unequip my shade.

[Ronyn]

I think it would be fine to get knocked down if we could get up faster and/or shoot while on our back.

I think it would be fine to get stuned if we could break out of it quickly and/or not be prone to a chain of stuns leading to stunlock.

 

basically...I have no issue with stuns or knockdowns in themselves. My issue is how they can lead to several seconds of being unable to input commands. Regardless of how rare it is or easy to avoid it may be it is bad design because it breaks engagement.

It trades the feeling of empowered player facing overwhelming odds (recipe for fun) for disempowered player at the mercy of cheap shots (recipe for frustration). It simply shouldn't be included in the game.

 

The players agency over personal actions must continue whether the player has made a mistake or not.

The difficulty of the game should come from a variety of sources that continue to ask more from the player.

If a mistake leads to inaction, its balanced poorly.

 

Knock me down and hold me there unable to input actions. Bad.

Knock me down and have the enemy prep for a super damaging attack that I have to scramble to get up from. Good.

[Vincer]

My guess is the current state of stuns/staggers comes two-fold

It seems to me like one way to try to spur teamwork; Help a team mate out of it, coordinate the team to divide and conquest AND 'teach' the player to not rush headon in the middle of every freaking mob slaming ground/spamming damage skills. There are other hints of this line of design, such as toxic smokes.

 

Problem is its not working like planed and its kinda cheap i confess

[BeefyScar]

probably the main issue this keep rising is how glitchy some infested gets. chargers usually swipe while they glide, zero loss on speed. ancients now a days seem to glide toward you even if you put them in panic state with fire dmg, which is more annoying b/c they're feets are not moving. so you're automatically thinking that they're not closing in on you.

 

while resil idea is more on the passive side, i was thinking mashing shooting button while in kd'd state will trigger "burst" which gets you back up with and staggers aoe around you. this "burst skill" will have 50 energy cost modified by energy efficiency mods.

*no numbers are fixed. just pitching the idea. basically its vincer's resil in active form with energy cost.

(i got the idea from fighting arcade games.)

[Bennyworld]

Well, I think that there should be a 'brace' control. When pressed, the warframe would turn their shoulder to where the player is pointing, and reduce the chance and effect of knockdown and stun.This could be upgraded with mods.

[Dodger6]

Personally anything that takes me out of the game if even for a 3 second knock down enrages me.   I don't play games to not play games.  It drove me nuts in MMOS where pvp builds were created specifically to stunlock people and it's just as annying when mobs do it.   People should not be taken out of control of their character, it isn't fun it isn't 'creative' it plane and simply removes someone from the game (4th wall type here).

 

Removing stuns and knockdowns would be the best thing you can do to keep the rythm and flow of the game going, at the bare minimum BLOCK should prevent you from being knocked down, but as it is block doesn't do a whole hell of a lot anyway.

[gam3addict]

Perhaps do it exactly like enemies have it and give a short recovery period where knockdowns don't have any effect. And staggers can be broken easily, if you hit the evade button repeatedly you'll roll right out of a stagger lock.