So Armor.

[KitsuAccalia]

The armor and Health/Shield system seems a bit lacking I was thinking of making a system that has more skill based input.

 

Basically right now we have Shield (Flat number with no reduction in damage) Health (affected by armor)

 

What if we removed the Shield and instead made a bar like figure under your health that acted as a shield in tandem with Armor.. When the bar was at full you would have the maximum armor, as you get hit the bar is lowered making you take more and more damage with each consequential hit. meaning you would have only a health bar with let's for the sake of this example give you 1500 HP on Saryn who has 150 armor, a rocket from Raptor would lower your bar about 25 percent and deal 100 damage, the next hit would lower it to 50 percent and deal 200 damage etc etc. Now your "armor/shield bar would slowly rejuvenate when outside of combat as well as the health sphere's giving more health to compensate for no regenerating shield. ( you would also probably take a bit less damage overall)

 

(NOTES: Might make a little UI design if I feel this gets far along.)

Edited July 22, 2013 by KitsuAccalia

[Saenol]

No.

[BoompigXD]

DOWNVOTE COME BACK!!! 

[KitsuAccalia]

No.

 

 

If your not even going to argue a concept or reason against this... Why bother post.

It's a simple mechanic and is a bonus to both hardcore and casuals alike.

 

I want to offer a tactic that makes casual play easier but also makes a bit of thought necessary, so that players don't simply run into the middle of a fire fight with no thought.

Edited July 22, 2013 by KitsuAccalia

[CosyPigeon]

Too much effort for a mechanic that sounds like it would dramatically slow down game play, I'd rather stick with my regenerating shield thanks. 

[Vinogrady]

more Realism

Space...ninjas....so real

 

 Skill based input.

 

I don't see any skill ivolved.

 

Sorry if i sound too harsh, just sayin

[Saenol]

If your not even going to argue a concept or reason against this... Why bother post.

It's a simple mechanic and is a bonus to both hardcore and casuals alike.

 

I want to offer a tactic that makes casual play easier but also makes a bit of thought necessary, so that players don't simply run into the middle of a fire fight with no thought.

 

Honestly, a simple "no" was all I thought it needed, but since you asked...

 

Firstly, "realism" is far from being a prime goal or concern of Warframe.

 

Secondly, your system is not any more "realistic" than what already exists. Actual armor neither depletes uniformly nor grows back on it's own. It's also often possible to harm an individual without harming his/her armor, and vice versa.

 

Thirdly, it would be little different in end result from what we already have now. It's not a large enough change to justify the effort in implementing it.

 

Lastly, the current system works just fine, and makes good, consistent sense, within the contexts that already exist.

[KitsuAccalia]

-snip-

What I meant by Realism is more towards the lore, since we have biotechnology which repairs shields. This is not different in any way. But either way Realism isn't the main point the focus is the system entirely,  It would reward those who put a tiny bit of thought into there actions.

[Urash]

Shoot the realistic missle-shooting sentient AI VTOL with infinate ammo and fuel! Kill it with your 560 missle launcher rounds so it can drop a glowing purple orb that contains a third of a space suit so we can finally know how to slap these assorted minerals together, wait twelve hours, then glue them together with an ancient D-cell battery! For science!

[KitsuAccalia]

Shoot the realistic missle-shooting sentient AI VTOL with infinate ammo and fuel! Kill it with your 560 missle launcher rounds so it can drop a glowing purple orb that contains a third of a space suit so we can finally know how to slap these assorted minerals together, wait twelve hours, then glue them together with an ancient D-cell battery! For science!

Once again I was speaking about the mechanic itself.... If you think that Warframe is supposed to be anywhere comparable to real life, well your not very bright. This doesn't even talk about the mechanic. At least post something relating to it.

[Urash]

your not very bright.

 

The mechanic would grind the flow of the game to a crashing halt. Enjoy your cover based shooting.

[KitsuAccalia]

The mechanic would grind the flow of the game to a crashing halt. Enjoy your cover based shooting.

Health orbs would compensate, your health pool would be larger in general and armor would be more effective it would simply punish those who waltz through a level thinking they are an unstoppable force. (unless your rhino in which case waltz ahead)

It would not halt anything at all. You only think it would because you didn't read entirely.

[Saenol]

What I meant by Realism is more towards the lore, since we have biotechnology which repairs shields. This is not different in any way. But either way Realism isn't the main point the focus is the system entirely,  It would reward those who put a tiny bit of thought into there actions.

 

It is different.

 

Shields are some sort of energy/plasma barrier that can be easily replenished if depleted. Armor implies a solid barrier that protects through mechanical deflection or ablation. It's one thing to recharge a capacitor or ionize some more gas for your form-fitting plasma window and another thing entirely to reconstitute solid matter.

 

Shields can already drop quite quickly if you aren't putting thought into your actions, and removing the shield mechanic would push the game in a direction DE isn't likely to go for.

[Kyte]

This would only make it into a slippery slope where making a mistake once will punish you by making the next mistake far more costly without offering any means to recover or reward for skillful play beyond "run for your regenerating armor". It'd encourage hiding behind boxes even more than it does now, because two hits could easily send you straight do the death spiral.

[KitsuAccalia]

I feel like DE wants to impose thought and repercussions for the lack of it. This wouldn't break the game in anyway and I think it should be given some thought, anyway I think the whole shield regeneration was made for the common player who plays a style in which he runs in and runs out repeatedly. Also Armor itself in this case would be merged into that plasma type shielding allowing it to fit into lore, simply making armor a more known statistic.

 

In response to Kyte, It would not endorse box hiding it would endorse being more mobile and killing more things for health also as I said you would have more effective health so in order to get yourself in that situation it would be a massively poor choice in judgment and you deserve your swift death.

Edited July 22, 2013 by KitsuAccalia

[Aizeol]

Irrelevant post, move along....

Edited July 22, 2013 by Aizeol

[KitsuAccalia]

-Snip-

that is speaking about enemy armor... That has nothing to do with the discussion I brought up....

Edited July 22, 2013 by KitsuAccalia

[Aizeol]

that is speaking about enemy armor... That has nothing to do with the discussion I brought up....

Oops, my mistake. I'll edit my post. That being said, I'd rather have some mechanic that acted as temporary hit points at the end of my health bar when my shields are gone. This way, my health still doesn't regen, my shields are still intact, but I have just a bit more surviveability (make the temp hit points only available to level 30 frames that have the specific mod equipped). While your idea is an interesting one, I feel it alters the experience a bit too much from where it is.

Great idea, but shields are kinda part of the game and changing them too much might make the whole experience feel too different.

[KitsuAccalia]

At least your providing some positive feed back for once instead of criticism with no valid point. Still I agree it is an extreme change but remember when mods were simply "Pistol mod" look at the game then and now. Perhaps a big change could be used. Also yes, If this Idea was liked more I would probably think up a ton of mods to go with it altering the effects of the new system.

[Kyte]

In response to Kyte, It would not endorse box hiding it would endorse being more mobile and killing more things for health also as I said you would have more effective health so in order to get yourself in that situation it would be a massively poor choice in judgment and you deserve your swift death.

Yes, it would. Any loss of health would lead to even greater loss of health. This would discourage jumping into the fray even more than it currently does, what with the enemy's massive density of fire. Then there's the current state of stunlock mechanics.

[Aizeol]

I definitely feel that armor needs to be fleshed out a bit more. Like I said, I think shields need to stay. Sadly right now, there isn't much reason to focus on anything but max shields because they can go just as high as health (if not, higher) and they regen on their own. Having a mechanic that put another defense between health and damage would be nice, and allow more builds besides just max shields. I think what you're suggesting should be a "rework" of armor and instead of being combined with shields, be its own thing that puts up a wall between health and shields.

Shields are static in their resistance to damage, and the highest value they can reach. Armor on the other hand, can be buffed much higher, but acts similarly to health. Once the armor has been breached, it is gone and there aren't any pick ups to bring it back. The difference is a player can either go for damage resistant armor, or a higher amount of armor.

There should be some functional difference between the two. For example, the damage resistant armor adversely effect either max HP or stamina use/regen while higher max armor would adversely effect sprint speed or shield regen speed. Basically it would effect the rest of the build since armor is technically a second health bar. Just my ideas, obviously they need refining, but I hope the general concept comes across.

[KitsuAccalia]

Yes, it would. Any loss of health would lead to even greater loss of health. This would discourage jumping into the fray even more than it currently does, what with the enemy's massive density of fire. Then there's the current state of stunlock mechanics.

I have not a clue what you mean as to stunlock mechanics unless you mean rollers? Also It would not discourage it any more then It is already. Like I said your effective health would be much greater. Your not looking at the mechanic as a whole and instead are simply seeing "I will lose my shield."

 

Aizeol:

Perhaps I would need to find a mid ground as you say. Though Like I said, adding in more health pickups and alternate perks to fast deflection and Redirection could help alot.

Edited July 22, 2013 by KitsuAccalia

[Oizen]

Problem with the armor is pretty simple. There is no way to stack it like Health or Shields.

 

For this we'll use Frost and Ember.

 

Frost has an armor of 150

Ember has an armor of 10

Steel Fiber gives +10% armor.

 

Frost gets 15 armor out of this. For a total of 165 armor

Ember gets 1 armor out of this. For a total of 11 armor.

 

Most frames have no real way to up armor at all. Its only really increasable on frames who already have a lot to begin with.

 

Only Frost and Rhino get decent armor out of the Steel Fiber, and I still wouldn't recommend using it on them.

 

Some mods shouldn't be %'s

Edited July 22, 2013 by Oizen

[KitsuAccalia]

Problem with the armor is pretty simple. There is no way to stack it like Health or Shields.

 

For this we'll use Frost and Ember.

 

Frost has an armor of 150

Ember has an armor of 10

Steel Fiber gives +10% armor.

 

Frost gets 15 armor out of this. For a total of 165 armor

Ember gets 1 armor out of this. For a total of 11 armor.

 

Most frames have no real way to up armor at all. Its only really increasable on frames who already have a lot to begin with.

 

Only Frost and Rhino get decent armor out of the Steel Fiber, and I still wouldn't recommend using it on them.

 

Some mods shouldn't be %'s.

Indeed if this idea was implemented even the glass type frames would still be survivable as not only would armor be increasable by a static amount but it would also increase the effective health of every frame, meaning you won't be downed in one fire fight where you would be, instead you'll either retreat and fight from afar or quickly scavenge for the more common health pick up. Example: Ember with 10 Armor will increase her armor by 50, Frost will get the same 50 the difference being Frost's health pool will be 1500 just as Embers so (not actual numbers) ember taking fire for a Grakata which deals 62 damage (not real numbers) Will deal 2 then per shot increase by 1 till her armor is drained at which point she is taking a whopping 62 per shot. Now she would have a suffiecent amount of health to tank alot of these bullets and it would take 60 shots to make her take the full damage so her effective health is still quite high. Frost with his armor will take more shots (in this case 200 shots to Embers 60) to reach the point of taking the full force of the attack. 

 

 

Note: Glassy frames would still have much less effective health then Rhino and Frost.

Edited July 22, 2013 by KitsuAccalia

[Aizeol]

@Oizen

What if there was a mod that gave a flat increase to armor, but it wasn't as useful for warframes that have a lot to start with.

Using Frost and Ember again with maxed Steel Fiber (110%)

Frost starts at 150 and goes up to 315.

Ember starts at 10 and goes up to 21.

Now, the new mod would just add 5 or 10 per level and have just as many levels as Steel Fiber (10, 11 if you count level 0 as the "first" level).

This would have the mod giving a bonus of 55 or 110 at max level. For the tankier frames, it would obviously be the worse choice since they aren't getting as much of an increase (205/260 as opposed to 315), but less tanky frames are getting a much better mod (65/120).

Granted, there is an extremely persuasive argument to be made that less tanky frames are not supposed to be tanky. I'm more in that camp and I don't want to play my Ember/Mag/Loki like I play my Rhino/Frost. I would like more male frames to be less tanky and at least 2 to 4 female tanks to compete with the two male tanks.