Primed Chamber, Charged Chamber, Thunderbolt, Orgis, Nightmare Mode, Reward Scaling

[IanN1990]

Good afternoon Warframe Community,

I rarely post feedback, but i have done my best to put a lot of effort into it. I would ask any feedback be constructive and non-hateful :).

Primed Chamber.

The Big issue around this is quite simple. The way of achieving it would of been unrealistic/impossible for some people due to work, family or simple physics. You could of had Jo-blogs farming for 48 hours and still lose due to not knowing the best farming spots or exploits or having the worst gear. I can understand the need to reward people that work hard and they should be rewarded for that but not the point everyone else suffers. I also think in every event there is always to much grind, it should be something fun and short that can be done in a few hours without the whole community needing to feel stressed/pressed to get it done in time. Also there has been a lot of rage around the fact there has been no "Clear" direction. It was never said to be an exclusive, i have seen a post by a Community Manager where they quoted a DE "I can never release this mod" but Rebecca has said "it might be released in future events" yet on this event there has been no mention of a primed chamber. Best rewards is 5 mods (the new ammo convert mods) and a hologram. So this kind of thing is keeping people on edge for no good reason. Say it is or isn't, then the community can move on.

Charged Chamber.

I think the fix to everyone problem is simple. People don't "want" primed chamber, just like people might not of wanted "Braton Vandal" once normal Braton became useful (or now with Braton prime as its even better then both). What they want is the things they can get to be useful or equal. So this needs to be buffed to 100% and NOT work with Primed chamber but keep the cost or increase the cost to 10-14 mod slots. This way primed chamber is still the "Trophy" item, that has the "gold rim", was released a month early and is cheaper. Charged can be used and may required the weapon to be formed (whereas primed you might have a enough slots to get away with it).
 
The biggest issue i have is seeing comments like "I have this mod, but don't even like or use it. I don't think anyone else should have it". I feel its just wrong, that there is a "Game-play changing mod" that legit people cant get. Which i will explain.

I will only use the Vulkar in this example to save on space, is the sniper everyone can get get and the maths apples to all snipers.

Base Damage 125
Base Crit 20%
Base Crit Damage 150% (Though considering how this is the worst sniper, a crit damage of 250% would at lest make it an optional sniper to pick but that's a different story).

Now in the game. There are two ways to build snipers. Crit Build or Primed Build.

Crit Build

Serration : Mutishot : Fire : Frost: AP : Electric : Crit Chance : Crit Damage
25% 2 Crits --> 9401 Damage
50% 1 Crit --> 6125 Damage
25% 0 Crit --> 2849 Damage

Primed Chamber Build

Serration : Mutishot : Fire : Frost: AP : Electric : Fury : Primed Chamber
4% --> 9739
16% --> 8116
80% --> 6493

Charged Chamber Build
Serration : Mutishot : Fire : Frost: AP : Electric : Fury : Charged Chamber
4% --> 7061
16% --> 5884
80% --> 4707

So as you can see by the numbers above. A Charged Chamber is NOT a variable weapon build. As a crit build can do so much better. With a 75% chance of doing at lest one crit or more. It means you have 75% to do 6k+ or more. Charged chamber only has a 4% chance of doing 6k+ More with the fact you need to reload after every shot.

So by using charged chamber your really hindering your own performance, as a crit build offers so much more. Whereas Primed chamber on the other hand is a beautiful mod. It increases your damage to a little less then double crit shot, but removes the "chance" aspect of depending on crits. This allows for reliable high one shooting where you would aim but means you need to reload after every shot. Snipers are made for one shorting dangerous targets in the game. Such as Toxic accients, Moas, Naplems.

*Disclaimer.
I am aware Mutishot is 90% and not 100%. So the % would be a little lower, due to make the maths easier for everyone "Not needing 5 teir system showing if a shot didn't fire, and if that one shot does and doesn't crit.

*Second Disclaimer.
I ask people not to rage over "Big numbers" saying "stop being silly". As i said about, snipers are made for one shooting VIP. Very important in high-teir defenes where they can mess you up. For that you need high damage, due to mob Health and Amour scaling guns lose damage extremely fast so you do need all the damage you can get.

*Third Disclaimer
The Damage listed above would be to a lvl 1 Grinner Sawman Body. That takes 100% to all damage. Different factions and levels will change the damage though generally it all balances out. An infested takes 50% electric but double fire. A corpus takes half fire, and double electric. SO it all evens out.

Thunderbolt.

When it first came out, i spent almost 3 days farming for it and truth be told. I was impressed. Like above Primed chamber gives snipers a different way to "build" their weapon, So did thunderbolt.

It offered a little less damage then a crit build but at the cost of chance.

Crit is
25% for 2
50% for 1
25% for none.

Thunderbolt is
9% for 2
42% for 1
49% for none.

At the moment. If you equp thunderbolt, if the arrow explodes. You do less damage then if it didn't explode. That in my view, is a broken mod. AoE damage is "odd" in this game, so you would need to aim for a flat surface, rather then aiming for ur target. Hoping it explodes.

I should also point out, Orgis. Is old thunderbolt with double damage and 100% Proc chance.
Sense thunderbolt was 250 damage with 30% Proc. Orgis is 500 damage with 100% Proc.
Does this mean anyone with a Orgis should be worried one day you will nerf their gun?
(Orgis with Mods, does 13k damage aoe).

As thunderbolt is 250. That would make it a 6.5k Aoe which is reduced by amour and range from explosion. As crit build can hit higher to a "single mob". Thunderbolt does less as a aoe. Seams like a valid different build to me :)

Nightmare Mode.

Please make this toggle on and off. A few times now i have wanted to do private / solo runs in lower systems for my own reasons. Resource Farming, Boss Farming, Key Farming, Fun....Farming ^^ but it is annoying when my favorite planet has a skull over it.

Added to that, lots of people struggle with nightmare mode and this "hinders" your ability to increase the difficulty. If it was toggled on, then people cant complain. Sense they turned it on.

 

Reward Scalling.

 

This is just from personal experience of doing lots of voids, nightmares and defense runs but i feel its a little disheartering when you put alot of effort into a run and get very little out of it. This is best seen when doing nightmare.

 

Why do a nightmare defense, 15 waves of onslaught normally taking 15-20+ mins and you get the "commen" rare mod. In which time you could of done 5 2-3 min rush runs of raid/capture. As i know DE is against rushing, and supports teamwork. It makes sense that things that require alot more work should reward somewhat better?. Perhaps 2 mods?

 

The same could be said for teir 3 defense. So much harder then the other teir 3s (by a huge margin, requiring real teamwork and organzing with a 30-45min battle) but you only get 1 item. At the moment, i am pillin up teir 3 defense keys, as i dont think there is any item from there you cant get from a teir 3 capture (run to target) or teir 3 moblie defense (run to computer).

 

Higher Defense waves should reward a little better as well. Give people a reason to aim for the higher teirs of defence. As doing 30 waves only to get a commen for your efforts. Maybe every 5 waves (after wave 10) a extra mod is added? So by wave 30. You would see 5 mods as a reward? Increasing the chances for something good.

 

IanN1990

Edited July 27, 2013 by IanN1990

[RedDirtTrooper]

1. Don't care, at all, in the least about primed chamber, and think anyone complaining about it is just whining about something that doesn't matter.

 

2. Thunderbolt is a terrible mod and needs some serious love to make it worth using up a slot on a bow. At the very least, the explosion needs to proc and be registered properly when you hit an enemy and it goes off. Preferably, they apply serration and elemental mod damage to the explosion as well. I'd like to see this as something other than a novelty mod that I might slap on if I'm killing under leveled trash and feeling stupid.

 

3. Nightmare should be optional, no question about that. Especially since they want to make it's difficulty live up to its name. Nobody should be halted from playing their mission of choice just because NM mode is active in the place they are looking to go.

[Matusware]

Nightmare Mode.

Please make this toggle on and off. A few times now i have wanted to do private / solo runs in lower systems for my own reasons. Resource Farming, Boss Farming, Key Farming, Fun....Farming ^^ but it is annoying when my favorite planet has a skull over it.

Added to that, lots of people struggle with nightmare mode and this "hinders" your ability to increase the difficulty. If it was toggled on, then people cant complain. Sense they turned it on.

 

IanN1990

i must Agree on this, there are times when i want nightmare mode and there are times when i dont and it is bit annoying to say atleast that boss (for example) that i am farming is normal run and rest of the day boss fight turns out to be Nightmare Mode, so yes i would really like to see option were you can toggle this on and off

Edited July 27, 2013 by Matusware

[IanN1990]

1. Don't care, at all, in the least about primed chamber, and think anyone complaining about it is just whining about something that doesn't matter.

 

2. Thunderbolt is a terrible mod and needs some serious love to make it worth using up a slot on a bow. At the very least, the explosion needs to proc and be registered properly when you hit an enemy and it goes off. Preferably, they apply serration and elemental mod damage to the explosion as well. I'd like to see this as something other than a novelty mod that I might slap on if I'm killing under leveled trash and feeling stupid.

 

3. Nightmare should be optional, no question about that. Especially since they want to make it's difficulty live up to its name. Nobody should be halted from playing their mission of choice just because NM mode is active in the place they are looking to go.

I do think your repsonse on point 1 was a little harsh (Considering in point 2, you agree thunderbolt needs a un-nerfing). As i think it does matter. Primed chamber is a vaiable mod for snipers, charged chamber isn't. I admit i would be happy if charged chamber become equal to primed in terms of what it offers. I still imagie there are some people who do like collecting and feel cheated out of something due to lack of commuation / unfair game mechainces.

 

If we were to take this event, assuming there will be another top 100 score. I recently found there is an exploit for 15 points per run with a 0 sec defense timer. Meaning people using this exploit have a huge advantage over those, like myself, that play by the rules.

 

As an example.

Excluding Load timers, Running to Objective, Exit and Farming Mats. It looks like this.

 

Solo to 250 = 200 mins

3 Group to 250 = 25mins

Exploit to 250 = 17 mins.

 

So you can see why having something obtained by being in the top 10 becomes so dangerously unfair.

Edited July 27, 2013 by IanN1990

[Inferno_Hamster]

1. Don't care, at all, in the least about primed chamber, and think anyone complaining about it is just whining about something that doesn't matter.

 

2. Thunderbolt is a terrible mod and needs some serious love to make it worth using up a slot on a bow. At the very least, the explosion needs to proc and be registered properly when you hit an enemy and it goes off. Preferably, they apply serration and elemental mod damage to the explosion as well. I'd like to see this as something other than a novelty mod that I might slap on if I'm killing under leveled trash and feeling stupid.

 

3. Nightmare should be optional, no question about that. Especially since they want to make it's difficulty live up to its name. Nobody should be halted from playing their mission of choice just because NM mode is active in the place they are looking to go.

[metroidman12311]

I actually read that all, unlike most people, and I agree that having two of the same mod but one being a super crappy version of the other is stupid. it would be like releasing a prime version of a warframe that has vastly superior stats at the same time as the regular version but the prime is only available to the top 100 players of the game.

[RedDirtTrooper]

I do think your repsonse on point 1 was a little harsh (Considering in point 2, you agree thunderbolt needs a un-nerfing). As i think it does matter. Primed chamber is a vaiable mod for snipers, charged chamber isn't. I admit i would be happy if charged chamber become equal to primed in terms of what it offers. I still imagie there are some people who do like collecting and feel cheated out of something due to lack of commuation / unfair game mechainces.

 

I guess the main reason that it's a non issue as far as I'm concerned is that I don't feel sniper rifles are actually viable weapons in this game, as it doesn't support the ranges, or secure rear areas that are really necessary to make them important. I have no problem with the prize version of the mod being superior to the public one, although I can see your point that maybe the gap is a little wide. I still would be very disappointed to see them totally devalue the top 100s prize by make charged chamber identical to it in performance, even if the mod point cost was higher. Maybe it deserves a bump up to 80% with a mod point cost a point or two higher than primed chamber. But again, I really don't care, as sniper rifles are something that you don't use in this game for performance. You just use them because you like them.

[Inferno_Hamster]

I guess the main reason that it's a non issue as far as I'm concerned is that I don't feel sniper rifles are actually viable weapons in this game, as it doesn't support the ranges, or secure rear areas that are really necessary to make them important. I have no problem with the prize version of the mod being superior to the public one, although I can see your point that maybe the gap is a little wide. I still would be very disappointed to see them totally devalue the top 100s prize by make charged chamber identical to it in performance, even if the mod point cost was higher. Maybe it deserves a bump up to 80% with a mod point cost a point or two higher than primed chamber. But again, I really don't care, as sniper rifles are something that you don't use in this game for performance. You just use them because you like them.

 

Agreed.  The pace that this game moves at makes sniper weapons somewhat silly.  The map design also does not invite sniper play, compare it to say Borderlands/Borderlands 2 where the maps are huge and the terrain allows for good sniper play (although borderlands 2 has a enemy spawn problem).

[IanN1990]

I guess the main reason that it's a non issue as far as I'm concerned is that I don't feel sniper rifles are actually viable weapons in this game, as it doesn't support the ranges, or secure rear areas that are really necessary to make them important. I have no problem with the prize version of the mod being superior to the public one, although I can see your point that maybe the gap is a little wide. I still would be very disappointed to see them totally devalue the top 100s prize by make charged chamber identical to it in performance, even if the mod point cost was higher. Maybe it deserves a bump up to 80% with a mod point cost a point or two higher than primed chamber. But again, I really don't care, as sniper rifles are something that you don't use in this game for performance. You just use them because you like them.

At the moment i am using the dread. (I would love to use Lanka, which i have but the charging Sparking Lights when aimed down scope annoys me to no end ^^) but i do disagree with statements like "Snipers have no place in the game". A well formed sniper can easily do 15k+ damage in a click. Allowing for dangerous targets to be taken out.

 

Using teir 3 defense as an example. The real threats are Moas, Lmgs and Accients. The "Horde" is no threat as they sit outside the frost bubble. If Moas go air-bone they become 2x the threat as those things have dangerously high amour, harder to hit and high damage. When i was in my team. I was sniping every MOA before they was even 10m to pod. Once there was non-left. I would move to accients, who i could 2-4 hit (depending on my luck) and then lmgs (3-7 hits depending on my luck). Allowing for sucessful runs. I was even able to two run a teir 3 defense with a friend (whos vandal braton stopped doing damage around wave 4 so all damage was me. Lucky i bought ammo packs).

 

Snipers have very good ammo effectianty as well. You will be getting more kills per bullet then any other weapon ^^ "Apart from maybe orgis ofc ^^"

 

The only point i might agree on is a team full of snipers wouldnt be so grand but then any-non rounded team wouldn't be that grand.

 

Pistols and Melee can do alot of damage as well. You dont need to depend on a powerful full-auto rifle to be strong. (Though little does outclass the 5k damage per shot hek ^^)

Edited July 27, 2013 by IanN1990

[Namacyst]

Event done.. no Primed Chamber as a reward or in any loot table. Charged Chamber still underwhelmingly bad. DE.. time to make a move, this Topic is still not under the Table.

[DanPaul7]

Braton Vandal superior.