Nightmare. Now With No Shields Or Warframe Skills.

[Oizen]

With the same glorious stealth mechanics.

 

 

Seriosuly why.

[Probta16]

I don't understand.

 

[Oizen]

 

I don't understand.

 

Go through a match without using your shield or a warframe skill vs the infintie spawn, with this games wonderful stealth mechanic it cant be done :v

[Patrynio]

You've probably had energy drain and no shields modifiers. Is it really so bad for you? It's Nightmare Mode, it's not supposed to be a walk in the park, really. If it's too hard for you, avoid NM.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Patrynio

[Oizen]

You've probably had energy drain and no shields modifiers. Is it really so bad for you? It's Nightmare Mode, it's not supposed to be a walk in the park, really. If it's too hard for you, avoid NM.

A challenge =/= Impossible.

 

 

A single cheap knockdown move from anything, and you're dead.

[Probta16]

Go through a match without using your shield or a warframe skill vs the infintie spawn, with this games wonderful stealth mechanic it cant be done :v

And you find that stealth is broke only now?

[Oizen]

And you find that stealth is broke only now?

Because thats what I said.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

You've probably had energy drain and no shields modifiers. Is it really so bad for you? It's Nightmare Mode, it's not supposed to be a walk in the park, really. If it's too hard for you, avoid NM.

punishing =/= difficult. Taking away a players tools is punishing, not difficult.

[Probta16]

Because thats what I said.

And now is clear to me, thanks!!

 

Nightmare mode was never meant to be played stealth. In fact, stealth was never to be in game yet.

[Spellcasterz]

Thing is,no shield +  energy drain hits certain Frames a lot harder than others.

Dont get me wrong,Im utterly okay with that but its still pretty much a given that certain lights feel useless/a liability to the team instead of an actual asset.

For now personally I dont see a reason to bring anything but a heavy to nm.

[Hallorann]

no shields, vampire mode. lvl 60 enemies. GG

 

No minimap + timer countdown + datamass 2nd objective. GL HF

[chrixle]

You have to glitch to win such a nightmare. Those NO SHIELD thing is stupid. Especially when you made it exclusive to VAMPIRE. With randoms, you will likely never win a NO SHIELD + NO ENERGY nightmare. This has nothing to do with challenging, it's just dump. Also they failed hard in removing some aspects in nightmare with this removing modes. So you can be lucky, or are dumped, because your warframe relies on abilities etc. So you are only able to play with heavy armored warframe maybe. So a lot mods are useless. It would be ok to reduce things by 50% (like max shield + generation) to make it challenging. But total remove of such things causes you to play without shield or energy mods / warframes and play rhino/frost based on weapons only. You can also dump melee because you will neven go in melee without shield. Etc... tons of reason why their ideas are crap as hell. Rly, I take a lot of time in analying games and also making gamemechanics myself (but i did not finished a whole game yet, its more mindcrafting ;o ...)

 

I posted this on Updates, but removed this because it better fits in feedback.

 

 

 

I just made a nightmare with NO SHIELD and NO ENERGY. When you fight without shields you kinda need vampire to stay alive. To remove this is dump and make it kinda impossible to play a NO SHIELD nightmare. Especially when its with NO ENERGY. Vampire is the most easy Nightmare version and for real reduces the difficulty of nightmares sightly.

 

Remake NO SHIELD mode to SHIELD VAMPIRE which allows you to steal shield on damage rather but remove shield regeneration. At least it makes it playable! Also i dislike that NO ENERGY thing. If you are unlucky, tons of your mods are useless in nightmare. Same as NO SHIELD. That causes also several warframe to suck hard and make it playable with heavy armored warframe only.

 

I does not look like you really have tested those ideas internal. You just dumped your nightmare modus hard.

 

There are a lot of ways how you could make some missions more difficult. But you actually take the wrong way now. You should intervenue not to lose a lot of players with non-sense ideas.

 

But I would also throw some ideas how it COULD be:

 

NIGHTMARE is made as a sum of certain tiers. One effect of each Tier is active in any nightmare mode:

 

Tier 1: effects players shields/movement or hostile shields

 

FREEZING COLD: -50% max shield and shield generation.

SHIELD VAMPIRE: slowly drains shield but restores shield on damage dealt.

 

EXTRA SHIELD: provides a extra regeneration shield (5% shield per second) for enemies equal to 25% of their maximum health.

BURNING HEAT: -50% max endurance, endurance generation and -25% movement speed.

RAID: additional 33% more enemies.

 

 

Tier 2: effects players health or hostile damage/health

 

TOXIC GAS: -50% max health and health generation.

HEALTH VAMPIRE: slowly drains health but restores health on damage dealt.

PIERCING SHOTS: 25% of hostile damage pierces your shield and dealt direct damage.

-> (results in 75% damage to shields, 25% damage to health. does deal more than 100% damage to health!)

IMPROVED WEAPONARY: +25% hostile damage dealt.

ENDURANCE: +25% hostile health.

AGGRESSION: enemies are more aggressive, higher aggression range and hiding less.

RAID: additional 33% more enemies.

 

Tier 3: effects players energy, ammo or hostile armor

 

NEGATIVE FIELD: -50% max energy and energy generation.

ENERGY VAMPIRE: slowly drains energy but restores energy on damage dealt.

 

LOW GRAVITY: halfes gravity. also effects projectiles.

HIGHT GRAVITY: doubles gravity. also effects projectiles.

IMPROVED ARMORY: enemies takes 25% less damage.

 

RAID: additional 33% more enemies.

 

Something like that could be nice. RAID could stack additive.

 

You could also make it like 3, 4, 5 randomly chosen additive effects, which may occure more than once. This could be like:

 

LOW SHIELD: -25% player max shield and generation, max 3 times.

LOW HEALTH: -25% player max health and generation, max 3 times.

LOW ENERGY: -25% players max energy and generation, max 3 times.

LOW ENDURANCE: -25% players max endurance and generation, max 3 times.

 

HEALTH VAMPIRE: player loses 2.5% of actual health every second but restores health equal to 10% damage dealt. (max 2x)

SHIELD VAMPIRE: player loses 5% of actual shield every second but restores shield equal to 20% damage dealt. (max 2x)

ENERGY VAMPIRE: player loses 2.5% of actual energy every second but restores energy equal to 1% damage dealt. (max 2x)

STAMINA VAMPIRE: player loses 5% of actual stamina every second but restores stamina equal to 1% damage dealt. (max 2x)

 

LOW AMMO: -25% players max ammo. (max 2x)

RARE AMMO: -25% ammo dropped. (max 2x)

RAID: +33% enemies. (max 3x)

 

etc.

 

But dont S#&$ around with nightmares as now. Please. :P

[stacey69]

With the same glorious stealth mechanics.

 

 

Seriosuly why.

I agree with the topic 100% mate. This is one of the reasons i have walked away from Warframe untill its fixed. I loved Nightmare and always looked for co-op nightmare games (hard to get) and played solo Nightmare. As soon as no shields/no energy came as a combo the game changed and showed DE for what they really are. No minimap + countdown to get out i feel the same about.

 

Nightmare mode for me for is about balancing incoming and out going damage. Be 1 shotted or 1 shot them kind of thing. It meant you needed to be tactical in your play but also have fast reactions and a good mod setup etc. Having no shields is not a problem. You just conserve energy for when you really need it. Having no energy means your just in a game where you rely 100% on weapons (i do anyway). This is gameplay still. Adds more of a challenge but is still do able so you feel good when you complete it.

 

Knowing it is inevitable you WILL die because you have neither shields and energy is not balanced. When i die from a mistake i say O golly gosh and learn from my mistake, hit the buy a revive back with platinum and think nothing of it. When i die because the game is punishing me or just unbalanced i get angry and do not enjoy the experience. If i lose, i look for a way to win. If there is no way to win then this is punishing and ruins my experience.

 

Getting lost while 50 Grineer spawn as you try to find your way out on a detonation timer is annoying. I fail because the game is failing me. If the AI and maps were written with No minimap + Timer in mind then you could balance it for an amazingly tense situation to be created. This is not true though as this mode was an after thought to the AI and maps. This is why i find it frustrating. Having no minimap is good. It really changes your play style. You don't know how many or where they are and if your pinned in you have to use your eyes and take damage doing so. This is good gameplay. Adding an unbalanced and unscripted timer into the equation takes away the fun and adds annoyance and frustration.

 

I agree DE changed nightmare to make it harder and more fun but they are not an experienced company in this field. They are tampering with high level gaming ideas they don't understand. This is a bad thing because it ruined my game. This is also a brilliant thing because you only learn from trying, failing and then starting again with the new knowledge you gained from your experience. I do have faith in them and i hope they will re balance Nightmare soon so its doable but still very challenging. 

 

I want to feel like i have been in a really good fight and done well to win. I do not want to feel like no matter what mods or guns i use i will always fail. If you want an impossible mode then just add 4 vs 4 Pvp with no match making. You watch inexperienced players being torn to pieces by experienced players. This is where impossible gaming is and can't be beaten. No, that wouldn't be fun either. 

 

I'll wait a while and come back and see if they manage to re balance it. If they do I will be a Warframe player again. If not I'll just log off and probably never come back. 

 

I hope for balance as Warframe is one of the best games i have ever played and I will miss it. I miss it now but i know if i come back and its not fixed it will ruin my experience again. I have found another game i really enjoy but there is always room for another game. Fingers crossed DE.

[Azraill]

Ways to win Co-Op Nightmare Mode regardless of it's setup Eg.

No Energy, No Shields, Vampire.

 

2-4 man team, all equip with quick-kill gear (1-3 shots max to kill the enemies your up against.) 

1 Enemy Radar or Enemy Sense in the team.

Tactics : Play like your in Rainbow Six. If you know what that means.

Ex. 1 Holds back watching the rear, ensuring NOTHING sneaks up on anyone. The other 3 slowly inch forward, strafe out from cover - take a quick shot - strafe back behind cover, generally you want one team member reserving his or her ammo in case a wave rushes, for quick clearing. 

 

The issue many face with Nightmare stims from now being able to rush in wild like usual, and almost no way to communicate. (Voice is a hit and miss system right now.) Nightmare when treated like the more fierce games out there like the prior example - rainbow six : You'll become the victor 80% of the time.

 

Solo on the other hand is intensely more punishing and unforgiving, one slip up and it's over simply due to not having any team members there to revive you : and nobody to watch your six, so often a sudden death will come from behind. I've been doing a whole crap-load of Solo NM runs on pluto without any mods what so ever on my Volt warframe and often manage to slip into about halfway through the mission, or reach the boss room - before failing due to my own mistakes yet - such as not watching the minimap and having a Moa sneak up on me (happens far to often.) but other times just from strafing out from a corner to soon and catching the tail end of a round before the enemy has to 'reload'. 

 

Nightmare in and of itself isn't the problem, it's the lack of ability to communicate with PUG groups, and the way Nightmare missions are approached, but most unforgiving is the way they are shown off. Nightmare needs to come with it's own training simulator essentially as it takes the whole groundwork of the game and turns it on it's head compared to what your 'used to' (Rushing rooms mindless firing and not using the FPS standard of strafing walls between enemy reloads/squad based team work.)

 

Nightmare doesn't make anything impossible, but you do have to completely rewire your brain on how you approach situations in Nightmare mode in Warframe.

 

Even a perfect squad - at the same time - may get wiped : due to bad luck letting one enemy slip behind the line. Still, though, more often than not it's an easy success for a coordinated team effort.

 

This is just my opinion of course, and I am in no way saying Nightmare is flawless but it's actually less about Nightmare itself and more about - in my opinion - the A.I and the way enemies spawn behind you, and sometimes, just mindless rush your position which sadly works in their favor in these missions, since all it takes is one suicidal moa to slip past to wipe out your whole team effort - even if it shouldn't have slipped past - it's annoying to lose to a mindless drone that did so.

 

That and, NIghtmare itself turns the concept of Warframe on it's head from being a fast paced NInja-wall-running badass into being a pretty stiff Rainbow Six team very grounded and cautious which I don't imagine is the intention, but it is the result. But I suppose my point is, it's not impossible, neither is it flawless. But in the meantime if you approach it differently and coordinate with your friends in such a manor you can make it passable in the mean time.

Edited August 3, 2013 by Azraill

[chrixle]

Ways to win Co-Op Nightmare Mode regardless of it's setup Eg.

No Energy, No Shields, Vampire.

 

You don't get it. The make NO SHIELDS exclusive to VAMPIRE. That means, it will never trigger both. Without energy, it's kinda impossible to win defences. Even with energy and the wrong warframes you lose. Also making those triggers random causes you to waste a lot of mods without a use. At the end you will only use mods that will always be active and play heavy armored warframes only. Just totally the wrong way. Every mod should be useful at the end, even if it's only at 50% of it's normal effect. Having no effect results in switching them out in the long term.

 

PS: Well, to be honest I don't like those tons of active abilities that just one hit enemies etc. That fact may break the neck of the game. In line with the host and game search problems. Also changings mods takes a lot of time and is very uncomfortable. But that's offtopic.

Edited August 4, 2013 by chrixle

[Sellardohr]

Yep... Getting rid of Warframe abilities just isn't fun. Don't like it. I get the Rainbow-Six style play --- heck, I played the original back when it came out and loved it. But it only fits into Warframe mechanics partially. In Rainbow Six, for instance, everybody died in one or two shots. You had flashbangs, snipers, and could set a tactical plan pre-mission based on the information you had. In Warframe, those tactical elements are replaced by pretty much one thing --- your frame's abilities.

 

Just not fun.