Some Problem With Warframe (I Can Feel The Heat From The Future Flames)

[mhyr1104]

I read some stuff on the wiki and I saw that there were posts about how the game was becoming too boring and that we should add a PVP element to the game. I fully supported this idea, but instead of a dueling concept, I recommended a 'Capture the Flag' or 'Get the Datamass' concept. I fully understand on the whole 'Warframe is a PVE game, it should stay as a PVE game'. Yes, Warframe is a PVE game but a game which only centers on a single gameplay can only go so far. AIs can only be performed to a certain level, but with people, we can throw in more development in a shorter time. These 'Capture the Flag' can be a weekly Clan event where all the Clans could send in a few of their members to play it. They can be ranked according to their tiers and the tops 3 can get a Gold/Silver/Bronze Capture the Flag statue. I personally think that it will be more fun, people will be able to compare their skills to others and it feels like your opponents are 'bosses' which would be better than the Stalker with his AI mind.

[asurako989]

I like the Idea of "Capture the Flag" thou I do remember people talking about such where we have "dojo invasion" by other clans or such.

[Endrance]

As long as there is no Player vs Player i'm in. The moment there is, i'm out. Warframe does not have condition for decent PvP. To have condition, every single frame and weapon would receive a massive nerf. And that, i something that would destroy the game completely

[mhyr1104]

I like the Idea of "Capture the Flag" thou I do remember people talking about such where we have "dojo invasion" by other clans or such.

Sounds great. It could have a defending/attacking side. The invaders have to go to the Terminal and hack it, this leaves the person who is hacking, vulnerable and incorporates more teamwork into the game, once the Datamass is obtained, it will be like normal Datamasses where you cannot use your primary. This makes it slightly different from other Capture the Flags and gives it a 'Warframe taste'. These stolen Datamasses have to be added into your own Terminal to give the defenders enough time to retrieve the Datamass. The Defenders have to wait until the time limit passes, winner gets 3 points, loser gets 1 while a draw will award them with 2 points each.

[mhyr1104]

As long as there is no Player vs Player i'm in. The moment there is, i'm out. Warframe does not have condition for decent PvP. To have condition, every single frame and weapon would receive a massive nerf. And that, i something that would destroy the game completely

But technically, all the Warframes have a weakness, so as long as you can exploit it, you can beat them, same with weapons (imo anyway)

[Shion963]

Perfect the PvE, create a stabilised Endgame, make sure everything works in the core game.

 

And then add 'true' PvP.

[101blubb]

But technically, all the Warframes have a weakness, so as long as you can exploit it, you can beat them, same with weapons (imo anyway)

 

Say that to my 5k-dmg-a-pop Vandaltron/8k-dmg-a-pop-with-AoE Ogris.

 

PvP in this game at this stage would create an insolvable amount of issues.

[MDaen]

At the moments, warframes are all balanced (to some extent; certain warframes are more "balanced" than others") against the environment. Whatever their strengths or weaknesses may be, warframes are not designed to be pitted against one another. To rebalance warframe powers and weapon abilities to function in a way that would allow for a level playing field would require for the entire system to be reworked in a manner that would drastically alter PvE funtionality.

 

Dueling in the Dojo's is an acceptable form of PvP because it's an opportunity to play at pvp with your close friends and have fun. All participants go into it understanding it isn't a serious affair. Attempting to add serious PvP (even just at the Dojo level) is a bigger task than it sounds like it would be. Without total balance between the warframes, there are certain frames that would see far too much representation on the battlefield, and others that would have little to no representation. The same is true of mods, weapons, auras, etc. This would lead either to one sided fights between experienced players playing the "optimized" pvp wargrames against diverse or inexperienced teams using the less represented frames, or else to boring fights between two optimized teams using the same frames and powers.

 

This is a free-to-play, cooperative PvE game. At present, only a few game modes exist, a limited number of enemies that rely almost exclusively on brute force, attrition based tactics, a very small number of tile sets... There is far too much that still needs to be developed, refined, made whole and perfected in the PvE side of things to even consider the dramatic changes PvP would bring to the game.

 

Players who are bored or who feel the AI is lacking need to remember that this is not a commercial game. Despite the marketplace, this game is still considered to be in beta testing. Many of the boss strategies and models are placeholders that will be replaced with unique models and updated tactics as the game is developed. We can expect to see a wide variety of new enemy units, new tactics, new environments, etc. added as new builds are released. In the mean time, if beta testing an unfinished game is not exciting, the solution is not to change directions and add a new and previously unintended layer of complexity to an unfinished project, but rather to provide feedback and constructive criticism.

[whitejackale]

Say that to my 5k-dmg-a-pop Vandaltron/8k-dmg-a-pop-with-AoE Ogris.

 

PvP in this game at this stage would create an insolvable amount of issues.

1)Remove abilities until pvp alternatives can be created.(Or nerfed versions if needed)

2)Only allow certain weapons for pvp.(Until nerfed versions can be created)

/beta-test-it

[CaptainohCaptain]

1)Remove abilities until pvp alternatives can be created.(Or nerfed versions if needed)

2)Only allow certain weapons for pvp.(Until nerfed versions can be created)

/beta-test-it

Did someone said "Skana fight"? Cause I heard someone said that.

[mhyr1104]

So maybe

 

1) All weapons are unmodded

2) Limit certain abilities since it would break the game

[MDaen]

1)Remove abilities until pvp alternatives can be created.(Or nerfed versions if needed)

2)Only allow certain weapons for pvp.(Until nerfed versions can be created)

/beta-test-it

 

To an extent, I agree that this is workable. However, I still find an issue with the idea that in the absence of balance, our solution is simply to remove the variation between characters and restrict weapon choices. For this solution to have even the slightest chance of working, any pvp map would also have to normalize everyone's shield / health / armor / stamina / run speed base values (because there is no reason for a Nova to have less survival potential than a Rhino if the powers are disabled.) Even still, this is a short term fix to offer pvp in an effort to keep bored beta testers interested... and for this short term fix to become a long term solution (with proper balance, the return of abilities, a full weapon library, compelling pvp game modes and maps) DE would need an additional team to work on this content, or have to remove developers from their current PvE projects to work on this PvP content. It's just not the right time in Warframe's development to be thinking about PvP yet.

 

Eventually, yes. But there is too much PvE work to be done right now, imo.

[mhyr1104]

Yeah, that's why I just said that it was an idea.

I just thought that with a bit of work, PVP will work, but maybe the theory and practical will differ quite a lot

[101blubb]

1)Remove abilities until pvp alternatives can be created.(Or nerfed versions if needed)

2)Only allow certain weapons for pvp.(Until nerfed versions can be created)

/beta-test-it

 

You cannot possibly hope for this to be balanced properly.

[mhyr1104]

It was just an idea, is there one which would at least work temporarily?

[VScipii26]

By removing all the powerful weapons (I could oneshot you all with my Vandaltron) and making abilities unusable, you turn the game from Warframe to CoD with pretty colors.

PvP is not 100% needed for every multiplayer game, at least not all the conventional CtF and whatnot.
In Warframe, the sheer amount of work that would be needed to make normal PvP worthwhile is insane, and restricting player choice any more than it is now would ruin it.
You would pretty much have to restrict everyone to rank 0 Excaliburs with Bratons, Latos, Skanas, and no mods or sentinels to make any semblance of balance.
Combine that with no dedicated servers, a Dev Team that doesn't work weekends, and entering the CoD/BF console arena, you get a classic forgetful shooter.

If we get PvP, it cannot be en masse. It would have to be either huge amounts restrictions or a L4D-esque versus style of player versus player.

[whitejackale]

By removing all the powerful weapons (I could oneshot you all with my Vandaltron) and making abilities unusable, you turn the game from Warframe to CoD with pretty colors.

PvP is not 100% needed for every multiplayer game, at least not all the conventional CtF and whatnot.

In Warframe, the sheer amount of work that would be needed to make normal PvP worthwhile is insane, and restricting player choice any more than it is now would ruin it.

You would pretty much have to restrict everyone to rank 0 Excaliburs with Bratons, Latos, Skanas, and no mods or sentinels to make any semblance of balance.

Combine that with no dedicated servers, a Dev Team that doesn't work weekends, and entering the CoD/BF console arena, you get a classic forgetful shooter.

If we get PvP, it cannot be en masse. It would have to be either huge amounts restrictions or a L4D-esque versus style of player versus player.

Removing all of the powerful weapons and making all of the abilities would be a temporary measure. After players get a chance to test pvp for a while, the developers can begin to introduce modified versions of our powers, and modified versions of our weapons for pvp. Not only that, but they could get a chance to tweak the different shield/health/armour values for the different warframes. The only reason to make everyone have very similar warframes without abilities, and very weak weapons, would be to give players a chance to test everything out. It would never be a permanent measure, unless of course the pvp magically works out with super weak weapons and no abilities.

 

There have been many games that have created separate versions of weapons/gear/abilities for pvp and pve. I do not see why that would be impossible for warframe. Especially when DE has "some" experience with first person shooters.

[mhyr1104]

Removing all of the powerful weapons and making all of the abilities would be a temporary measure. After players get a chance to test pvp for a while, the developers can begin to introduce modified versions of our powers, and modified versions of our weapons for pvp. Not only that, but they could get a chance to tweak the different shield/health/armour values for the different warframes. The only reason to make everyone have very similar warframes without abilities, and very weak weapons, would be to give players a chance to test everything out. It would never be a permanent measure, unless of course the pvp magically works out with super weak weapons and no abilities.

 

There have been many games that have created separate versions of weapons/gear/abilities for pvp and pve. I do not see why that would be impossible for warframe. Especially when DE has "some" experience with first person shooters.

That....is fabulous

[Tr1ples1xer]

I don't care for pvp AT ALL ! imo this is absolutely not what WF is about, just stating my opinion, I want more enemy types gradual difficulty and bigger enemies NOT PVP ever.

[ReiganCross]

Sounds boring... Just saying, doesn't sound all that new to me. I would tire of it real fast o.o'

[mhyr1104]

I don't care for pvp AT ALL ! imo this is absolutely not what WF is about, just stating my opinion, I want more enemy types gradual difficulty and bigger enemies NOT PVP ever.

No matter how you think about it, that's power creeps, the road to abandonment. Simply stronger enemies won't make the game any more interesting, if anything, it will make it more boring.

 

Sounds boring... Just saying, doesn't sound all that new to me. I would tire of it real fast o.o'

Yeah, this idea should not be very new, I just thought that with people who can vary more than AIs will be able to add a bit of spice to the game, instead of the same monotonous enemies who just stand in the open to get shot at

[andboomgoestheydynamite]

I don't care for pvp AT ALL ! imo this is absolutely not what WF is about, just stating my opinion, I want more enemy types gradual difficulty and bigger enemies NOT PVP ever.

Then you my friend like constant farming for no reward.