Le Stealth Overhaul: Alarms

[ForgemasterHD]

I'd like to start off this thread by saying -Nothing- is perfect on the first concept. Your involvement in positive discussion is essential to a better game. 

 

Hello and welcome to my thread on better stealth. We will be discussing one of the main hindrances to any stealth play: Alarms. Alarms are generally triggered by enemies that you never see, and therefore cannot stop. It is frustrating when you have to make sure every enemy is either looking away or not present before moving, only to have them see you from across the tile. Generally, stealth is near impossible without stealth-specific warframes, and even then, running in guns-a-blazing usually results in a better, more rewarding experience. Alarms are just the tip of the proverbial iceberg, but they are almost the sole destruction of stealth in this game.

 

From a realistic standpoint, we cannot remove alarms completely. What space fairing vessel wouldn't have them?  I like what DE has done so far, and I do NOT want to completely change the existing mechanics, just make a proposal of what can be done alongside them. Alarms should increase the difficulty, spawning in more mobs, lockdowns, etc. However, they need a tweak.

 

My proposal is that alarms can be disabled via hacking. Now, before you run off to the reply box and type in something unflattering regarding my status within the game, hear me out. This hack will be VERY difficult, similar to the ones seen in the Mastery test, and have a very quick "intruder detected" mode. Furthermore, failing this hack will immediately activate the alarm throughout the entire ship. If a Tenno successfully hacks the alarm system, he will be given 5 minutes (possibly permanent, depending on balancing) where the alarm cannot be activated. However, gunfire will still set enemies on surrounding tiles on mini-alert. I feel this will allow players to stealth more effectively without worrying about how much stuff they have to do to avoid getting caught, yet still make it somewhat challenging. 

 

Unfortunately, I don't know how easy this would be to code/design/implement. I am just now taking introductory classes to programming and coding, so I can't say if this is easy enough for DE to slip in in Update 10/11/etc. I did try to use existing mechanics (for the most part) that could be altered, but again, not a dev. 

 

More changes/additions coming soon. 

 

As always, thank you for your precious time.

[Infinite-FX]

I like the idea of disabling alarms via hacks.
Maybe you could use one of the "Consoles" found all over the place to try a 1-time high difficulty hack to disable the all-mission alarm for some minutes, then you can try it again 'only' if you haven't raised any big alerts yet.

[ForgemasterHD]

I don't quite know how that would work out. I mean the only alarm in the game is the one that tells all the Grineer on a vessel their ship has been infiltrated.

[oremaster100]

I completely agree with the fact that stealth should be adjusted and improved. I think that your idea on alarms is a start, but still won't make stealth very effective. In order for stealth to be effective a player needs more options than invisibility on a frame. Perhaps a mod that will effect the distance that an enemy must be in order for them to be alerted to the players presence. Example: An enemy must be within X in game meters in order to notice a player if they don't fire their gun or do other things that will obviously lead to an alerted enemy. I agree that the player at minimum needs a way to un-alert the rest of the level. It is not fair to make one mistake and have the entire missions stealth potential thrown out the window.

[gell]

It's not just realism, but game-wise, there should be alarms. The alarms need to go further, in fact, which would actually promote stealth (but still not require it). Each increased alarm can increase enemy defenses and loadouts. Right now, the game is pretty random whether you have heavy gunners, etc (not counting Endless Defense, which ramps up). If the Grineer have hit the alarm 5 times since I started, I should be seeing multiple heavy gunners and other heavy hitters. The start of a level can be random, but have little chance to just have multiple heavies wandering around (why is everyone patrolling even though nothing is going on?).

 

Things that can happen with successive alarm triggers: stronger armor; tougher enemy types like Heavy Gunners, or Rail and Fusion Moas; increase in enemy count (tech limits probably keep this from being doable), and in extreme cases, small boss spawns, such as the Hyena.

[ForgemasterHD]

I like that idea, but it would be downright crushing after a certain point.

 

I'd like to improve upon that, actually. With the higher planets, more of a chance for Heavies to spawn?

Edited August 9, 2013 by ForgemasterHD

[10twenty4]

There are really 2 reason stealth doesn't work in this game: the AI and the random maps.

 

The maps are probably the bigger cause for concern, simply because there's always a chance you'll get a layout and enemy placement that makes stealth impossible without invisibility.

 

Ideally, if the game were to improve stealth it would expand upon the idea of sound it already has, and add something like a light/shadow mechanic in addition to the basic LoS it has now. Make sure the tiles have plenty of nooks and hidden paths to go through, and also make sure stealth is a rewarding enough method.

[ForgemasterHD]

There are really 2 reason stealth doesn't work in this game: the AI and the random maps.

 

The maps are probably the bigger cause for concern, simply because there's always a chance you'll get a layout and enemy placement that makes stealth impossible without invisibility.

 

Ideally, if the game were to improve stealth it would expand upon the idea of sound it already has, and add something like a light/shadow mechanic in addition to the basic LoS it has now. Make sure the tiles have plenty of nooks and hidden paths to go through, and also make sure stealth is a rewarding enough method.

The problem then arises of making it equitable or better than a run'n'gun mission, but yet keep it balanced so Stealth doesn't give too much of a bonus.

 

But IMO, it would be perfectly fine if stealth gave out a better reward, it's harder after all.

[Paradoxbomb]

Things I'd like to see in regards to alarms:

 

>Like you said, allow us to hack control consoles to take ourselves off the scanners while preventing them from being used again for several minutes or so. However, so that players don't just shut down the security in every room and remove any punishment from being caught, either make it so that:

 

a) only one console on the map (a master control console, if you will) will allow you to deactivate the alarms, meaning that you will have to do some fighting before you can restore stealth mode, or

b) Limit the amount of times players can deactivate the alarms (2-3 times at most), after which enemies will realize a threat is still present and remain on high alert.

 

>Make Control Consoles appear on the map so you know where they are. Any enemy making a break for a console should have a special icon appear on the map (and maybe over their head too) so you know which enemy to prioritize when trying to maintain stealth.

 

>Give ciphers a new use. Plugging one into any console while undetected will temporarily disable the system, preventing enemies from triggering the alarm for 2-3 minutes. Any enemy that attempts to use a console will be painfully electrocuted, killing standard units and stunning heavy units. In order to prevent players from breezing through the levels this way, the ship's security will become wise to the cipher's virus if you overuse it, so you can only use 3 ciphers throughout the whole mission, so use sparingly.

 

>Make enemies less alarm happy. They ring alarms without even seeing you, and I kid you not that enemies have run right towards me just to reach a panel behind me. Enemies should have to have you in there line of sight and be within a certain distance of a console (that's not right next to the player) before they consider hitting the alarm.

Edited August 9, 2013 by Paradoxbomb

[ForgemasterHD]

Things I'd like to see in regards to alarms:

 

>Like you said, allow us to hack control consoles to take ourselves off the scanners while preventing them from being used again for several minutes or so. However, so that players don't just shut down the security in every room and remove any punishment from being caught, either make it so that:

 

a) only one console on the map (a master control console, if you will) will allow you to deactivate the alarms, meaning that you will have to do some fighting before you can restore stealth mode, or

b) Limit the amount of times players can deactivate the alarms (2-3 times at most), after which enemies will realize a threat is still present and remain on high alert.

 

>Make Control Consoles appear on the map so you know where they are. Any enemy making a break for a console should have a special icon appear on the map (and maybe over their head too) so you know which enemy to prioritize when trying to maintain stealth.

 

>Give ciphers a new use. Plugging one into any console while undetected will temporarily disable the system, preventing enemies from triggering the alarm for 2-3 minutes. Any enemy that attempts to use a console will be painfully electrocuted, killing standard units and stunning heavy units. In order to prevent players from breezing through the levels this way, the ship's security will become wise to the cipher's virus if you overuse it, so you can only use 3 ciphers throughout the whole mission, so use sparingly.

 

>Make enemies less alarm happy. They ring alarms without even seeing you, and I kid you not that enemies have run right towards me just to reach a panel behind me. Enemies should have to have you in there line of sight and be within a certain distance of a console (that's not right next to the player) before they consider hitting the alarm.

This. I like this. 

 

I think the enemies should see if you are a threat before going to the console, and DE made convincing enough AI that could justify them trying to take you out before calling for help.