Mastery Ranks

[Elhazzared]

I would like someone to give me a very logic and good explanaition (since I know DE won't as they don't talk in the foruns with Rebeca's very ocasional exception) for the mastery ranks requirements.

 

Why do I need mastery rank 4 to get weapons from the market? What sense does it makes (and I am almost at mastery 5)?

 

Why do I need mastery rank 7 to get the last weapons from research? Again what sense does it makes?

 

As a friend pointed out to me and seams to just be quiting the game (I might be following too on the same basis). I already got all the weapons/warframes I want that are not behind a hard cap wall. Why should I have to be forced to be using all the weapons and warframes I don't like just to get those weapons?

 

And really this is a very important point. Forcing people to grind for hours and hours something they dislike is the quickest way to drive people away from the game. one thing is to grid for mats, grind for blueplrints... That is okish. But being forced to use weapons and warframes you don't like up to rank 30 is absurd. It's not like the weapons or warframes really level up that quickly anyway, it takes hours upon hours to archive the levels necessary to get there only to sell it and do the same thing over with another weapon or warframe you do like. Rinse and repeat ad nauseum.

 

So please, explain me why all this is good and necessary.

 

PS: Yes, this is what I hope an eye opener for DE to remove that thing entirely... If they want to put cosmetic stuff behind mastery levels? Fine, I don't give a damn, but hardlocking content behind it is unacceptable.

[PsychedelicSnake]

Rank requirements are in place because players need to earn the right to use better gear, is the best I can say it. Say you are unproven... I wouldn't trust you with a rocket launcher. Something like that. You have to earn it.

 

Sorry if this is not the best explanation, but my brain has been shut off for a good 3 days.

 

EDIT: Also, if you really want those weapons, you'll play longer to get them. It's a rather ingenius, diabolical business plan, really.

Edited August 9, 2013 by PsychedelicSnake

[Trollin4ThePrimes]

Rank is for end-game items. Should a noob be able to use anything in the game right from the start? If you picked "no" your a normal smart person. If you picked "yes" then play others games and try to tell me what other ones allow full access from the start.

 

It is how 99% of all F2P games work and even the majority of AAA tittles do the same. 

Edited August 9, 2013 by dadgoat

[PsychedelicSnake]

Rank is for end-game items. Should a noob be able to use anything in the game right from the start? If you picked "no" your a normal smart person. If you picked "yes" then play others games and try to tell me what other ones allow full access from the start.

A summary: It's logical progression.

[Tudi69]

been farming all week to get to rank 6. Aaaaalmost there, 2 more weapons.... Made like 200 runs to get mag system, going to facedesk if it does not drop soon.

[LegitGhosty]

You do realise that the research weapons and the mastery 4 and higher level weapons are kinda OP in the lower levels right?

:l..

Edited August 9, 2013 by John87156

[Elhazzared]

Ok so I got 236 hours of warframe... I'm still noob who can't be trusted with a different sniper or maybe a different version of the gorgon, maybe the rockt lancher? Really? That seams a little overdoing to say the least.

 

by the way, all those weapons that require high mastery ranks already have a way to ensure they don't end up in noob's hands who can't handle. It's called research and crafting time requirements which by the way, you have no way of getting around because they aren't sold in the market. Even a noob would learn before getting them because it's at least a 3 day research for the sub component (after you have the mats). Then there is another 2.5 days to craft all the required parts (not including farming all the resources) and lastly there is a 1 day crafting the weapon. So at very least you'll spend a whole week playing before you get the weapon... i'm sure that is more than enough to get you out of the noob status for the most part. Warframe isn't exactly a game with a high skill ceiling.

 

Even a mastery rank 3 would be more than enough to put any weapon on anyone's hands. This is just forcing people to use weapons they don't like and which is a torture for them to use and get to level 30, then rinse and repeat ad nauseum... Again i'd like a good and logical explanaion for these incredibly high cap ceilings on weapons.

 

EDIT: Even if some research weapons are generally better (In my own perception only a couple of them are actually OP the rest is just meh) this is no reason to make anyone grind S#&$ty weapons for days.

Edited August 9, 2013 by Elhazzared

[Bakercompany86]

Rank is for end-game items. Should a noob be able to use anything in the game right from the start? If you picked "no" your a normal smart person. If you picked "yes" then play others games and try to tell me what other ones allow full access from the start.

 

It is how 99% of all F2P games work and even the majority of AAA tittles do the same. 

 

 

Even in games where one weapon isn't necessarily better than the next (read: Horizontal progression) players still must unlock other weapons one way or another.

 

 

Take a look at Battlefield 3 for example.  Every gun has a tradeoff, and no one gun is overpowered or underpowered.  But you don't start with them all.  And BF3 isn't even a F2P game.

 

This is a very common practice.  And the mastery system encourages you to try different weapons (okay it requires you to).  Nothing wrong with that.

[Sophista]

As PsychadelicSnake pointed out, its like progression.

 

Altho i cant figure any more logic explaination than these already given...

i might try to compare it.

 

Why do you have to lvl up a weapon from lvl 1 to 30?

Why dont remove weapon lvl up system and just give us fully operational lvl 30 weapons with enough energy to mod it up.

 

Because you got to earn it.

[Dreed]

rank is for nothing.. my account isnt better, but from patch to patch i fell like im totaly noob here. What is my point.. make Rank more usefull, let it act. What is my vision:

Player without proper rank cant join, go, play, on map/planet.

Player cant USE, buy BP, craft Frames without proper Ranks

Player Cant USE, buy, Craft, Weapons - from Market/DOJO - without proper Rank.

Why like that, many Frames, weapon is great and powerful, and i with rank 10 and now rank 11 see someone with rank 2/3 running with Nova only because some other players - prob. higher ranks - help him to get it.. its insane with player who dont have proper mods, skill, and dont realy know whats goin on join Map like Eris, Sedna, Pluto and take what other players drop from mobs.. he is like parasite.

Player when be forced to play, lvling, buying weapon will get be better and better, will get some proper wisdom about game, about maps etc. In mean time this will block players who just whant to get reward for other players work.

- Warframe BP Drop - for me all warframes should be moved from Market - BP - and added to DOJO Labs, New building, Clan need to invent Basic Frame BP, all Frame parts BP, buy it from Dojo and Craft - materials for craft in own Foundry shouldnt be chnaged - no FORMA for it - Price for Inventing this whole BP should be hight enought. And ofcourse players need have proper rank if they want to Buy and craft this Frame, like with weapons.

- Bosses - so when we moved all BP from bosses to Dojo we should give something.. so Bosses should drop much more than they drop currently, not only Materials and not only one, but ~5 rare mats only, addition credits and much better chance for Special Mod Drop. This will give You DEV Team a option to add some special Materials what will be needed for Dojo Labs. About Bosses, they need to be harder, more interactive than we have now, bosses should have some phase.. Tenno should use something, go sometwhere put something, picukp from ground and shoot, avoid his special attack what can kill in on shoot, Bosses what will be challange enought to bring Trinity to party etc.. not only Shoot him to death.

[Weird_Stealth]

OP, it's not hard to rank up in mastery in this game, I have a friend that over the weekend went from Mastery 4 to very damn close to mastery 7 in two days. Also the way they have things set up, I say it's a good system, it it rewards those who use many weapons vs just one set weapon.

[Elhazzared]

Even in games where one weapon isn't necessarily better than the next (read: Horizontal progression) players still must unlock other weapons one way or another.

 

 

Take a look at Battlefield 3 for example.  Every gun has a tradeoff, and no one gun is overpowered or underpowered.  But you don't start with them all.  And BF3 isn't even a F2P game.

 

This is a very common practice.  And the mastery system encourages you to try different weapons (okay it requires you to).  Nothing wrong with that.

 

Encouraging to try them? Fine. Making you use them to rank 30 when you hate them and then making you do so for all the weapons and warframes you hate? That's going overboard. This not to mention the time sink which you are playing and not having any fun, quite the oppsotie of that. What happens when you don't have fun in a game? That's right, you quit.

 

 

As PsychadelicSnake pointed out, its like progression.

 

Altho i cant figure any more logic explaination than these already given...

i might try to compare it.

 

Why do you have to lvl up a weapon from lvl 1 to 30?

Why dont remove weapon lvl up system and just give us fully operational lvl 30 weapons with enough energy to mod it up.

 

Because you got to earn it.

 

Progressing a weapon from rank 1 to 30 because you want the weapon? Fine, perfectly acceptably. Progressing multiple weapons which you hate to use to level 30 just to gain mastery ranks to get that one weapon at the end of the line? That's unacceptable.

[Elhazzared]

OP, it's not hard to rank up in mastery in this game, I have a friend that over the weekend went from Mastery 4 to very damn close to mastery 7 in two days. Also the way they have things set up, I say it's a good system, it it rewards those who use many weapons vs just one set weapon.

 

Well, I Imagine with affinity boost and the weekend boost there was an easier time but it still took hours upon hours of playing with weapons you hate. On normal situations where you just don't have boosts of any kind, it takes a very long time to just get one mastery level. Heck, I've been putting hours and more hours into the game, trying to go from mastery 4 to 5 and I still haven't managed it... Granted sometimes I need to farm this or that and can't aford to bring a weak warframe or many weak weapons which slow this down. Even then c'mon, it takes forever once you get to mastery 4. In fact it all goes well up tomastery , then it starts the grind of hated weapons and warframes.

 

Also, I use different weapons for different ocasions. I still don't like most weapons, I still have limited warframe slots and weapons slots.

Edited August 9, 2013 by Elhazzared

[Bakercompany86]

Encouraging to try them? Fine. Making you use them to rank 30 when you hate them and then making you do so for all the weapons and warframes you hate? That's going overboard. This not to mention the time sink which you are playing and not having any fun, quite the oppsotie of that. What happens when you don't have fun in a game? That's right, you quit.

 

 

 

Very true.

 

What's the highest rank you have to be to unlock all the weapons?  Honest question, I'm really not sure.  The only level I've paid attention to is Mastery Rank 4 for the Hek.

 

I'm Mastery rank 3 and i've really just started playing and have only switched between half a dozen weapons.

[Elhazzared]

Right now it's mastery rank 7. It used to be 4 to get the Hek. Hek got nerfed but it's still okish. Then they introduced the research and it goes up to mastery rank 7 on things like the sniper or the heavy laser machinegun. Mastery rank 6 for things like the missile launcher... I just cannot see myself grinding that much... I'm already losing all the will to play with all the S#&$ty weapons and warframes I'll be forced to use. This not to mention waste time farming resources just to build them and eventually throw the away at level 30 because slots are limited.

[Bakercompany86]

Right now it's mastery rank 7. It used to be 4 to get the Hek. Hek got nerfed but it's still okish. Then they introduced the research and it goes up to mastery rank 7 on things like the sniper or the heavy laser machinegun. Mastery rank 6 for things like the missile launcher... I just cannot see myself grinding that much... I'm already losing all the will to play with all the S#&$ty weapons and warframes I'll be forced to use. This not to mention waste time farming resources just to build them and eventually throw the away at level 30 because slots are limited.

 

 

Good to know.  Good thing I'm happy with my Braton =D

[Shion963]

Very true.

 

What's the highest rank you have to be to unlock all the weapons?  Honest question, I'm really not sure.  The only level I've paid attention to is Mastery Rank 4 for the Hek.

 

I'm Mastery rank 3 and i've really just started playing and have only switched between half a dozen weapons.

AFAIK highest mstery requirement is Supra and Lanka, at rank 7.

 

EDIT: Also it's worth noting that most rank-locked weapons are also clantech. Which requires you to build a dojo and research them, if you're not in a megaclan. And the time farming/amassing all those materials could also be used to level "stupid, boring" weapons.

 

And it might just be that when I started we didn't have as many weapons as we do today. but I rather liked Mastery Requirements. Sometimes I wished that more weapons would be rank locked, but looking at the amount of maxed weapons needed to reach 4 I think it's best it stays with the wide pool of no requirements/rank2 requirements it is right now.

Edited August 9, 2013 by Shion963

[Bakercompany86]

AFAIK highest mstery requirement is Supra and Lanka, at rank 7.

 

And it might just be that when I started we didn't have as many weapons as we do today. but I rather liked Mastery Requirements. Sometimes I wished that more weapons would be rank locked, but looking at the amount of maxed weapons needed to reach 4 I think it's best it stays with the wide pool of no requirements/rank2 requirements it is right now.

 

 

For the F2P model I think it's perfectly acceptable (and fun) to add new awesome weapons that require mastery ranks to unlock.

We get to experiment with new weapons (or you can stick with your comfort zone too) all the while increasing our mastery rank and gaining the ability to unlock the new ones.

 

Not to mention, when you level up you don't just "level up".  You actually have to complete a challenge to progress.  That is really cool IMO and very well done.

[Elhazzared]

Good to know.  Good thing I'm happy with my Braton =D

 

So was I, as well as with my hek. Then hek got nerfed, then enemies level 70 hit, then grinner got buffed to hell. Sudenly my braton can at best kill 2 before reload, it can't even kill a heavy at level 70 even if I fully unload on it's head and it's completly modded (no polarity mods cause right now forma is being used for dojo stuff)... It does ok for lower level stuff, but high level stuff it doesn't works, it will eat a lot of ammo and not solve your problem... In fact i had to run away from 2 level 60 missions against grineer. I had the objectives acomplished and I was running through all the enemies ignoring rooms with more than 30 people because I knew my energy wasn't going to be enough to survive and my ammo was depleted or nearly... this is why you need weapons that are more efficient at killing at higher levels but up to level 50 you can do just fine with about anything.

[Shion963]

For the F2P model I think it's perfectly acceptable (and fun) to add new awesome weapons that require mastery ranks to unlock.

We get to experiment with new weapons (or you can stick with your comfort zone too) all the while increasing our mastery rank and gaining the ability to unlock the new ones.

 

Not to mention, when you level up you don't just "level up".  You actually have to complete a challenge to progress.  That is really cool IMO and very well done.

 

I personally love the mastery rank system, and not because I'm already near rank 6 when clantech was first introduced (dojo costs were prohibitive for small clans back then). It's because it encourages players to go beyond their comfort zones, try out and master new weapons.

 

Mastery in itself IS the goal, with the weapons just being neat perks. Not the rank numbers, but rather the knowledge that you've mastered that many weapons, and deserve to be called a badass.

 

Better than "Kill X mobs/enemies/players/rats to progress rank".

 

 

So was I, as well as with my hek. Then hek got nerfed, then enemies level 70 hit, then grinner got buffed to hell. Sudenly my braton can at best kill 2 before reload, it can't even kill a heavy at level 70 even if I fully unload on it's head and it's completly modded (no polarity mods cause right now forma is being used for dojo stuff)... It does ok for lower level stuff, but high level stuff it doesn't works, it will eat a lot of ammo and not solve your problem... In fact i had to run away from 2 level 60 missions against grineer. I had the objectives acomplished and I was running through all the enemies ignoring rooms with more than 30 people because I knew my energy wasn't going to be enough to survive and my ammo was depleted or nearly... this is why you need weapons that are more efficient at killing at higher levels but up to level 50 you can do just fine with about anything.

 

DEvs know, and are looking into the stupidly powerful enemies with bloated resistances. Personally I miss being able to run through a higher levelled mission without running out of ammo, or get KO'd three times.

 

5) Armor (Scalability and Difficulty)

Several great posts have emerged that tackle “Armor” and its effectiveness at high levels and how this affects players options when facing high level enemies. This conversation boils down to what kind of changes will Armor undergo, if any? The answer is that Armor is currently working as intended and is unlikely to change, Edit: but now being discussed.

6) Power Creep/Difficulty/High Level Gameplay

This complements the above topic but from a different perspective. To borrow a quote from the thread from  player 11.11.11:

“My point is, a lot of the games current difficulty is, as Litler puts it - not based around player skill or emergent game-play. Its simply about getting weapons that allow you to spit out enough damage per second, to take on incredibly beefed up enemies.”

This is an apt summary of player concerns and something that is being brought up around the office.  So many factors can go into “fixing” what is identified here, we are always tweaking and adding new content to allow for new gameplay experiences. Truthfully we like being Elite Tenno: Grineer, Corpus, and Infested killing machines, but we also love creativity in what our players can bring to the table. Finding balance in this is our continued goal.

7) Continued Warframe Buff

Trinity and Ember are currently on Scott’s list to be buffed. Mag, Rhino, and Volt got a brush up in 8.3 and are still being reviewed. The rest of the bunch will eventually be addressed as well, so if you don’t see “insert Warframe here” now, the time for review will come. Baby steps!

8) Buff Weapon “X”

Like the Great Warframe Buff, some weapons will receive a review as well to account for the evolving gameplay elements. When in doubt, read the FAQ:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/5898-warframe-faq/

Warframe/Gun X is over(or under)-powered! (Why did you nerf? Why did you boost?)

We are rolling out balance changes very quickly. We love the feedback (good and bad) and take it very seriously. Our goal is to avoid having a single dominant weapon, build, mod configuration...

[Bakercompany86]

So was I, as well as with my hek. Then hek got nerfed, then enemies level 70 hit, then grinner got buffed to hell. Sudenly my braton can at best kill 2 before reload, it can't even kill a heavy at level 70 even if I fully unload on it's head and it's completly modded (no polarity mods cause right now forma is being used for dojo stuff)... It does ok for lower level stuff, but high level stuff it doesn't works, it will eat a lot of ammo and not solve your problem... In fact i had to run away from 2 level 60 missions against grineer. I had the objectives acomplished and I was running through all the enemies ignoring rooms with more than 30 people because I knew my energy wasn't going to be enough to survive and my ammo was depleted or nearly... this is why you need weapons that are more efficient at killing at higher levels but up to level 50 you can do just fine with about anything.

 

 

This is a problem I've seen a few trying to get the community rallied around.  I think they definitely need to tone down the progression of enemies health and armor, because you're exactly right.

 

 

Like you mentioned (I think it was you) players should have the option of trying new weapons but not be forced.

 

I really hope it's not some scheme to get us all to buy more platinum to get the "endgame capable" weapons.  That would sadden me, and I would stop playing.

 

 

EDIT:  When did they shift the Armor discussion from "working as intended" to "being discussed"!!!!????  That's awesome news!!!

 

 

I have always said, some damage progression is fine.  But changing our weapons merely for the sake of spitting out enough dps to be able to participate isn't very cool to me.  I'd like to have choice in my loadout, current system doesn't allow this.

Edited August 9, 2013 by Bakercompany86

[Elhazzared]

I personally love the mastery rank system, and not because I'm already near rank 6 when clantech was first introduced (dojo costs were prohibitive for small clans back then). It's because it encourages players to go beyond their comfort zones, try out and master new weapons.

 

Mastery in itself IS the goal, with the weapons just being neat perks. Not the rank numbers, but rather the knowledge that you've mastered that many weapons, and deserve to be called a badass.

 

Better than "Kill X mobs/enemies/players/rats to progress rank".

 

Again, making a player go out of his confort zone for a while, fine. Making a player play for hours and hours with weapons he just doesn't likes makes the game not fun. Hours become days, days become weeks. All not having fun, all doing a desperate grind just to get that one weapon that you want. This just isn't right. Weapons should not have a hard cap behind them. People play games, first and foremost, to have fun. If you take that away from a game no one will play it because it's just not worth your time. this is what DE currently is doing with the mastery ranks. Making it not worth our time.

[Shion963]

I really hope it's not some scheme to get us all to buy more platinum to get the "endgame capable" weapons.  That would sadden me, and I would stop playing.

 

 

EDIT:  When did they shift the Armor discussion from "working as intended" to "being discussed"!!!!????  That's awesome news!!!

 

 

I have always said, some damage progression is fine.  But changing our weapons merely for the sake of spitting out enough dps to be able to participate isn't very cool to me.  I'd like to have choice in my loadout, current system doesn't allow this.

 

Eh, "platinum forcing" is iffy, but I've only use plat to buy slots, and enough Forma to quickly get a dojo running (convenience, not requirement).

I've only Forma'd my Banshee, and Dera once, so I don't personally think 4~6x Forma is 'required' to get endgame-capable. It's silly, even spending that much time on a weapon/'frame, time I could use learning other weapons/'frames. Talk about stagnation!

I also don't have any Primes, so the "forcing us to buy Void Keys for weapon upgrades" argument should go shoot itself.

 

Edited by DERebecca, 08 August 2013 - 10:38 PM.

Added "Discussion" details to Item #5

Good that being reconsidered. It'd require a hefty buff in order to pull some weapons out of the "not viable for later" zone.

 

 

Again, making a player go out of his confort zone for a while, fine. Making a player play for hours and hours with weapons he just doesn't likes makes the game not fun. Hours become days, days become weeks. All not having fun, all doing a desperate grind just to get that one weapon that you want. This just isn't right. Weapons should not have a hard cap behind them. People play games, first and foremost, to have fun. If you take that away from a game no one will play it because it's just not worth your time. this is what DE currently is doing with the mastery ranks. Making it not worth our time.

 

If you think it's a slog, it'll be a slog. If you see it as a waste of time, it will be one.

I just want to get it done an over with, but spending time on a weapon, learning its intricacies, uniqueness, and how to properly mod it to its advantage made me rethink its usefulness. Every weapon that was released has its strong points, and dismissing them as trash is a massive disservice to all the time DEvs spent making them.

 

By the time I finished maxing my Braton Mk-I, i was pretty much attached to the stupid thing. Even seriously considered supercharging it!

[Weird_Stealth]

Well, I Imagine with affinity boost and the weekend boost there was an easier time

All he had was the weekend boost, since he has no credit card, and doesn't want to buy plat.

 

 

 

but it still took hours upon hours of playing with weapons you hate.

Wow, you're a hateful person.... why do you hate so many weapons? Cause they're underpowered? Cause they're ugly? Cause they're not a weapon you enjoy using? If it's cause you're underpowered, mod them, sometimes the underpowered weapons work a lot better when moded. If it's because they're ugly, ignore the looks. If it's because it's not a weapon type you enjoy using, you need to open your mind. 

 

 

 

On normal situations where you just don't have boosts of any kind, it takes a very long time to just get one mastery level. Heck, I've been putting hours and more hours into the game, trying to go from mastery 4 to 5 and I still haven't managed it... Granted sometimes I need to farm this or that and can't aford to bring a weak warframe or many weak weapons which slow this down.

Weak? are you soloing this? or are you going in teams? Are you even using these so called "Weak warframe/weapons" currently?

 

 

 

Even then c'mon, it takes forever once you get to mastery 4. In fact it all goes well up tomastery , then it starts the grind of hated weapons and warframes.

So what you're saying is that games shouldn't put caps in place to keep players from getting higher/better weapons? You do realize a lot of games do this, and it's not going to change any.

 

 

 

Also, I use different weapons for different ocasions. I still don't like most weapons, I still have limited warframe slots and weapons slots.

Limited warfame and weapon slots are issues, but my only advice is try out a warfame/weapon, level it up to max, if and sell it if you don't like it, the key idea here is to TRY it. which from the look of things, it looks like you hate everything.

Edited August 9, 2013 by Weird_Stealth

[InsomniacOvrLrd]

EDIT : Guy above me, you're a prick. Stop being one.

 

It's just selfish, dirty business on the part of DE. You want that hek? Well, you have to either buy weapons for mastery (i really hope no one does this, their pricing on a gun is absolutely outrageous) or grind them.

 

While you're grinding, you're playing the game longer. the longer you use S#&$ gear, the more inclined you'll be to dump a catalyst or rector. Oh, that awful sword you have no interest in using because you already have a good one? Well, you could spend 40 plat on an affinity booster to push the process along if you're impatient.

 

Warframe is designed to waste your time, and test your resolve on NOT paying them money.  Pretty much everything but the clantech crap can be bought for a price, but that price is so @(*()$ bonkers that it's insulting :T  I've spent at least $100, probably closer to $150, and i still suffer through awful walks through mercury looking for ferrite simply because, while i COULD just BUY that ferrite, the prospect of shelling out money for rocks because some prick decided it'd be a great idea to put the most common building requirement on the easiest planet with no endless defense, so that people who AREN'T just starting out will be INCREDIBLY bored while doing so.

 

Forcing mastery rank limitations on you is a way to prolong your exposure to the game, and that prolonged exposure is supposed to make you impatient so that you decide to give them money to stop wasting your time, so that you can actually play the game. I sort of hate it :T

Edited August 9, 2013 by InsomniacOvrLrd