djjdiss Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 (edited) So after testing a few things out it seems the most power efficient you can make your skills is to reduce their cost by about 50% If there's some kind of soft cap in place for this I guess that's fine, but if there isn't then this would and should be considered a bug. I've stacked upwards of 200% power efficiency on a frame and not seen my costs go lower than 50% (I will here on out refer to Power Efficiency as PE) What's even more interesting is that the calculation in general seem to be off. For example I have a 48.5% PE mod on my Ash. If we were to use a Shuriken, which costs 25 energy, then our total cost would be 12.8 rounded up to 13. Yet when I use Shuriken my cost is 17 energy. That's a reduction of 32% not 48.5% !! Just to entertain the subject further I added a 30.6% PE mod in with the 48.5% one and now my Shuriken cost went down to 14. That's only an additional 20% reduction not 30.6%!! Since I'm never satisfied with results I tested this out on other warframes and had the same results So if someone here can clarify what kind of funky &#! math is going into these PE mods it would be helpful. If a mod or admin or staff can clarify that these calculations are correct and working as intended that would be helpful too, because to me this looks to be bugged. If PE mods are working as intended Then I feel the proper numbers should be displayed on the mod so as not to confuse people into thinking they can get half priced skills. Edited February 7, 2013 by djjdiss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharrack Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Calculation seems to be InitialCost / (1 + Sum(boni)) and then probably capped at 50% of max cost if you can't get past that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schalimah Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 (edited) you are missunderstanding how PE works. by your logic 100% PE would mean 0 energy cost (if there were no cap). But that would be power cost not effiicency. 100% PE means that you can use an ability 100% more often with the same amount of energy. Basicly 100% PE = 50% power cost. to demonstarte on your example: 25 / 1.485 = 16.835... 25 / 1.791 = 13.958... btw: this is not a soft but a hard cap Edited February 7, 2013 by Schalimah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevrmoor Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 (edited) Might be wrong here, but it could be that power efficiency is only working on 50% of your energy cost Skill one = 25 Energy cost 50%= 12,5 PE: 48,5% of 12,5= 6,0625 New Cost 50% + (50%- 50%x 48,5%) = 12,5E + 12,5E - 6,0625E = 18,56E PE: 30,6% of 12,5=3,825 50% + (50% - 50% x 30,6%) = 12,5E + 12,5E - 3,825E = 21,175E Both mods 50% + (50% - 50% x 79,1%) = 12,5E + 12,5 - 9,8875 = 15,1125E There is still an error of around 1E-2E, close enuff for me, never been a math type of person, but i saw the pattern... 25 / 1.485 = 16.835... 25 / 1.791 = 13.958... you, sir, are right, stupid me Edited February 7, 2013 by Nevrmoor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djjdiss Posted February 7, 2013 Author Share Posted February 7, 2013 25 / 1.485 = 16.835... 25 / 1.791 = 13.958... btw: this is not a soft but a hard cap Thanks for clearing the math and usage up bud =) I still don't think there's anything efficent about it when you need to take a 1/4 of you mod slots to gain a decent benefit from PE. They possibly need to slighty raise the max amount that shows up on mods or change the calculation altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schalimah Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 (edited) Well, 25% PE equals 50 power max on a 200 energy warframe. Not totaly worthless, but i could think of better alternatives. Edited February 7, 2013 by Schalimah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djjdiss Posted February 7, 2013 Author Share Posted February 7, 2013 Well, 25% PE equals 50 power max on a 200 energy warframe. Not totaly worthless, but i could think of better alternatives. Oooo Oooo wait wait let me guess, I love guessing games. By alternatives do you mean things like...oh idk making your skill tree have nodes that actually reduce the cost straight up and get rid of the mods altogether? Holy crap did I like solve two stones with one bird right there or what? I came up with a start to fixing the junk skill trees AND eliminated a doo doo mod in the process. I don't know where it comes from sometimes... I scare myself even. =P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoyuTheTrinity Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 I don't know where it comes from sometimes... I scare myself even. Like a sleeping dog that wakes himself up by farting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djjdiss Posted February 7, 2013 Author Share Posted February 7, 2013 (edited) Like a sleeping dog that wakes himself up by farting. That's right. Nothing's more awesome to watch. =) Edited February 7, 2013 by djjdiss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schalimah Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 (edited) Oooo Oooo wait wait let me guess, I love guessing games. By alternatives do you mean things like...oh idk making your skill tree have nodes that actually reduce the cost straight up and get rid of the mods altogether? Holy crap did I like solve two stones with one bird right there or what? I came up with a start to fixing the junk skill trees AND eliminated a doo doo mod in the process. I don't know where it comes from sometimes... I scare myself even. =P Maybe I don't have any power-issues so I would go for 100 shield or maybe 75 health or god forbid 75% melee damage... It was about an alternative mod, not an alternative solution for PE. Edited February 8, 2013 by Schalimah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redler Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 ....Rank 30 Power efficiency is 49% guys, just get one for your Rhino and luagh through the whole game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djjdiss Posted February 8, 2013 Author Share Posted February 8, 2013 ....Rank 30 Power efficiency is 49% guys, just get one for your Rhino and luagh through the whole game. Apparently you didn't catch anything tha was talked about in this topic. Lol that's okay =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djjdiss Posted February 8, 2013 Author Share Posted February 8, 2013 Maybe I don't have any power-issues so I would go for 100 shield or maybe 75 health or god forbid 75% melee damage... It was about an alternative mod, not an alternative solution for PE. Oh dammit and here I thought I was reading your mind. You not having any energy problems insinuates, to me anyway, that you don't use your skills very often and let your overpowered weapon do the talking by liquifying anything you shoot it at. I find that to be another problem in itself. The game is far too gun-centric and unless completely surounded by mobs do players end up pressing 4 to = win or using any of their skills. Sure there's iron skin, snow globe, decoy and things like that, but those skills aren't needed if everyone can just pull the trigger and watch things melt in senconds. I feel that serious changes need to be made to mods in genereal, but that's a whole other beast that I wont go into in this topic. Suffice to say I think PE should be done away with and your energy should regen slowly with mods that boost the rate. I also think powers should play a larger role in the game other than one shotting everything on the map or making it easier to revive allies. Nyx was a good step in that direction, but clearly needs more work. You also talked about alternative mods, which I know most will agree, are pretty much Sheild + and Sheild recharge with sprint speed tossed in there. It's pretty freakin stupid when I spend my 11 slots to boost my sheild to ridiculous size and make myself fly around the map rushing through levels. Now I don't HAVE to do that, but what i'm saying here is it's the norm now. Melee damage? What the point or incentive to use it when you can just blow everything away in a few shots. Starting to go into mods in general now so i'll stop it there. Anyway tl;dr PE mods should go away and energy should regen naturally with mods that boost the regen rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janexo Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 (edited) ....Rank 30 Power efficiency is 49% guys, just get one for your Rhino and luagh through the whole game. I object...with a 29% mod at rank 30. http://puu.sh/1Znsi Edited February 8, 2013 by Ravilis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djjdiss Posted February 8, 2013 Author Share Posted February 8, 2013 I object...with a 29% mod at rank 30. The force is not strong with you yet young padiwan. More farming must be done for are you to find such treasures... /yoda talk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redler Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Apparently you didn't catch anything tha was talked about in this topic. Lol that's okay =) Oops, I think that dog fart stuff just short circuit my brain :P I object...with a 29% mod at rank 30. http://puu.sh/1Znsi Might be the same case as Multishot which use to be 99% at rank 30 but now is around 70~% at 30. BL GUYS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealTuna Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Frame/weapon specific mods seem like they can still go up to 100% -- got a 99.8% multishot for Latron the other day. Does anyone know if power efficiency can appear on frame specific mods, or if it can only appear on generic warframe mods? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redler Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Frame/weapon specific mods seem like they can still go up to 100% -- got a 99.8% multishot for Latron the other day. Does anyone know if power efficiency can appear on frame specific mods, or if it can only appear on generic warframe mods? I really don't understand the frame/weapon specific mod. A few of my Rhino mod give as much as generic warframe mod. Also I do see a guy with 99% generic shotgun multishot mod on his Hek in the thread about op mod. Does this mean some of the old mod didn't get nerf? That's... uh.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratuitousLurking Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 IIRC, Warframe/Weapon specific mods do a much better boost at the same tier as standard mods. It's still all RNG as far as I've read about, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djjdiss Posted February 8, 2013 Author Share Posted February 8, 2013 Multi is still att 100% being the highest PE currently caps out at 50% top on either warframe specific mods on general ones. You will need 2 of those if you want to half your cost on skills as it stands right now. See above for details on how it all works =P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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