My take on the future of melee

[RagingReaper67]

This is a bit of a rewording of a post I made in a different thread, but I felt like it was worth a separate topic.

First off, I think the quick melee should feel a little more on-the-go. For some weapons this is already the case, but the bigger weapons definitely make it hard to keep moving. I get it, they're big weapons, but you can still sacrifice some power for a faster attack. There are others that have this problem, but that's the first that comes to mind.

Next, I feel like blocking should be automatic (when melee is equipped) since all you really have to do is hold a button anyways. This could be a way to open up the current block button for an alt button (so you can throw with a click rather than a hold (gun blades would still need to charge for balance)). I know this raises a question for aim-gliding, but that could easily be handled by another button, while melee is equipped. Or maybe just use the already existing alt-fire button for throws. IDK, I'm just kinda spit-balling with this one.

You should be able to counter enemy grapples, but it should only happen when you have melee equipped and are taking the grapple head-on (cuz catching a grapple from behind is silly).

I also feel that some uniqueness between types of melee weapons is needed; not just aesthetically, but functionally. For instance, I should be able to snatch someone with a whip and jerk em around. Or maybe use a staff to sweep the legs for a takedown. There's a lot of possibilities with this approach and I feel that it would make trying different melee weapons, and melee in general, more rewarding. Also we need more gun blades (shotgun, burst, beam, etc.).

Additionally, I think it would be neat to expand on the unarmed option. I know it kinda goes against the idea of having an entire armory at your disposal, but sometimes I just wanna punch a dude in the face...with just my fist. Maybe throw in some grappling too.

Lastly, please be careful about how much inspiration is drawn from over-the-top video games. I'd rather keep the martial arts feel. I understand the desire to engage hordes, rather than single targets, by I honestly feel like this is already a well balanced feature. The weapons that should engage groups do, while the weapons that are rationally single-target do just that. I wouldn't be mad at some cool AoE weapons though, like innate blast damage. 

[theraot]

hace 22 minutos, RagingReaper67 dijo:

Additionally, I think it would be neat to expand on the unarmed option. I know it kinda goes against the idea of having an entire armory at your disposal, but sometimes I just wanna punch a dude in the face...with just my fist. Maybe throw in some grappling too.

 

Sometimes I end up unarmed, for example in a primary weapon only mission where I run out of ammo. And then I need to punch, but can't.

[Walkampf]

vor 55 Minuten schrieb theraot:

Sometimes I end up unarmed, for example in a primary weapon only mission where I run out of ammo. And then I need to punch, but can't.

Had this discussion in another threat, there are several options you can fall back on, when you run out of ammo in those missions.

Giving a unarmed option whould just defeat the purpose of the mission modifier. Just use your brain.

Also: It's jus stupid to punch an armored robot without protective gear, so no. Unarmed combat is stupid and should only be used when it's contextually really your last resort resort, like when Zanuka takes away your weapons.

If you want the feeling of unarmed combat, then use sparring or fist weapons.

 

vor einer Stunde schrieb RagingReaper67:

You should be able to counter enemy grapples, but it should only happen when you have melee equipped and are taking the grapple head-on (cuz catching a grapple from behind is silly).

You can counter enemies grapples by blocking.

[theraot]

hace 53 minutos, Walkampf dijo:

Had this discussion in another threat, there are several options you can fall back on, when you run out of ammo in those missions.

Giving a unarmed option whould just defeat the purpose of the mission modifier. Just use your brain.

Perhaps I should have worded that differently... I want to punch - even if it stupid and completly useless against the enemies※. I don't really need to, I have restores, always. And, when talking of the mission modifier, then sparring or fist weapons are not an option.

※: Which I consider debatable, on the ground that warframes are not humans, their jumps show they have super human strength and they are armored (Edit: except, perhaps, Nidus), atlhough I am willing to concede that it is not worth debating.

Chill.

Edited March 21, 2018 by theraot

[Walkampf]

Oh, i'm chill, definitly.

But even if you say that Warframe are not human, they are still made out of some sort of flesh, so similar rules whould apply as to a human hand and quite frankly, if you punch a concretewall or a tank you'll inflict serious damage to yourself.

Even if they are capable of super human feats, they are generally not bulletproof either and if you don't use any abilities, they are actually really squishy, if you think about it.

vor 1 Stunde schrieb theraot:

And, when talking of the mission modifier, then sparring or fist weapons are not an option.

As i already said, in this case it is not intended to be able to use anything besides one weapontype.

As i already said, this goes against the very idea of the mode.

Edited March 21, 2018 by Walkampf

[RagingReaper67]

I feel like the entire grappling (jiujitsu) thing was just ignored. Yes, I want to punch things. I also want to suplex a mofo. 

3 hours ago, Walkampf said:

It's jus stupid to punch an armored robot without protective gear, so no. Unarmed combat is stupid

Try telling that to the martial artists who developed techniques to get around, or even through protective armor. Yes, it was not the same type of armor, nor were they robots, but a Warframe could channel energy as a protective layer.

 

39 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

 

Oh, i'm chill, definitly.

 

Yep, sure looks that way.

 

3 hours ago, Walkampf said:

You can counter enemies grapples by blockin

Really, you can grab a grapple and pull the attacker to you? Oh, that's not a thing, because that's clearly what I was talking about.

[RagingReaper67]

Also, don't get so wrapped up in a single tiny piece of a thread that you ignore the rest altogether. I would like to constructively discuss my ideas, not argue about whether you think one part of it makes sense.

[theraot]

@Walkampf So, how does self damage on naked punch sound to you?

[RagingReaper67]

4 minutes ago, theraot said:

@Walkampf So, how does self damage on naked punch sound to you?

I know this wasn't directed to me....but no. That would make unarmed unappealing. And there are ways to strike without harming oneself, which I'm sure ancient future space ninjas would be well versed in.

Also, can we not get stuck on a single point please? I deliberately wrote this thread to have multiple talking points. Most of which are being totally ignored.

Edited March 21, 2018 by RagingReaper67

[Walkampf]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb RagingReaper67:

Try telling that to the martial artists who developed techniques to get around, or even through protective armor. Yes, it was not the same type of armor, nor were they robots, but a Warframe could channel energy as a protective layer.

Martial artists carefully test to limits of what they are capable of.

If Bruce Lee whould punch a tank at full force, he'd still mess up every bone in his hand.

 

vor 9 Minuten schrieb RagingReaper67:

Really, you can grab a grapple and pull the attacker to you? Oh, that's not a thing, because that's clearly what I was talking about.

You can stop the grapple. Pulling them to you was never mentioned.

vor 4 Stunden schrieb RagingReaper67:

You should be able to counter enemy grapples, but it should only happen when you have melee equipped and are taking the grapple head-on (cuz catching a grapple from behind is silly).

Sorry for mit being able to mindread you like an empty book.

 

vor 2 Minuten schrieb theraot:

@Walkampf So, how does self damage on naked punch sound to you?

At first glance a good idea, however, as with selfdamaging explosive weapons, this could be abused if you don't put in additional programming work, to prevent them.

 

vor 10 Minuten schrieb RagingReaper67:

Also, don't get so wrapped up in a single tiny piece of a thread that you ignore the rest altogether. I would like to constructively discuss my ideas, not argue about whether you think one part of it makes sense.

As for the rest, yes i pretty much agree with you, otherwise i'd have mentioned them.

[RagingReaper67]

44 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

Martial artists carefully test to limits of what they are capable of.

Yes, and Warframes are capable of manifesting energy into physical form. Pretty sure that if the exhalted blade can cut through armor, then simple energy gloves should be able to protect their hands.

47 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

Sorry for mit being able to mindread you like an empty book.

I'll level with you here, I wasn't particularly clear on my meaning. I just thought that countering would be the next logical step after catching the grapple.

 

48 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

As for the rest, yes i pretty much agree with you, otherwise i'd have mentioned them

Thank you. A simple acknowledgement of the rest of the topic is all I ask for.