The DExtreme™ Rework

[LordeRicky]

9 minutes ago, Gandergear said:

..."but saying me or any part of the community dont have a voice that DE should consider is bullish since whats the point of the feedback forums if the expected outcome is only "i loved this yassss"

I never said DE should dismiss the minority

 

9 minutes ago, Gandergear said:

The "how other players feel" is exclusively directed at the reliance of beta and compiled by simply googling 'longest game beta' where threads of 'how long will we be in beta' were discussed.

So, different games or Warframe in particular? I don't figure other games' reviews should be taken into account here.

 

9 minutes ago, Gandergear said:

"As per describing developers who rely on the beta crutch as lazy..."  " Its up to them to change behavior by interacting with feedback posts with why or why not something is done the way it was, to explain why were still in beta, to explain what is the end goal of the game."

They do quite a good job responding to issues, and as far as I can tell they pretty quickly rectify the huge issues that arise. The devs rerally don't need to explain why we're in beta. I mean, if you understand well enough what "beta" means, then no explanation is needed. The end goal is also something we might never know, and aren't entitled to know.

 

9 minutes ago, Gandergear said:

What does DE still need to majorly overhaul to justify the game leaving beta? Well I let them know what I thought.

You literally told them to scrap 90% of the content and redo it in a way that would result in an entirely new game with no real justification as to why. Warframe is Warframe because of the mechanics present. If you really want these changes then you might as well release "Warframe 2" yourself. 

Edited April 11, 2018 by LordeRicky

[Gandergear]

3 minutes ago, LordeRicky said:

You literally told them to scrap 90% of the content and redo it in a way that would result in an entirely new game with no real justification as to why. Warframe is Warframe because of the mechanics present. If you really want these changes then you might as well release "Warframe 2" yourself. 

I think I very clearly explained myself. Enemy scaling is broken, weapon damage is unbalanced, and gameplay revolves around outpowering mechanics rather than using them.

 

[LordeRicky]

1 minute ago, Gandergear said:

I think I very clearly explained myself. Enemy scaling is broken, weapon damage is unbalanced, and gameplay revolves around outpowering mechanics rather than using them.

 

And that is what makes the game what it is... I thought I said that, might've forgotten.

Edited April 11, 2018 by LordeRicky
Yeah, definitely said that's what Warframe is made of, and devs have recently been doing A LOT to fix this anyway

[Gandergear]

9 minutes ago, LordeRicky said:

And that is what makes the game what it is... I thought I said that, might've forgotten.

Question is if what theyre planning to do and to an extent what they HAVE done is enough. Im remembering fondly spamming slam attacks into finishers to kill a level 30 bombard with my alt account with a full damage and elemental melee and not being able to significantly damage it.

Do I believe IPS 2.0 will fix anything? No i dont because their original idea was so outlandishly off kilter to what the community has been giving them feedback on for years and the appropriate backlash was so strong DE has delayed its release by almost 6 months.

If you want the only way you play is to have to use blood rush and condition overloads, to have to put serration and split chamber on, to have to choose status or crit, then sure, but hopefully your eyes will get adjusted staring at that shining city that you can start seeing the cracks.

Edited April 11, 2018 by Gandergear

[NeithanDiniem]

And what is the problem with there being 2 branches of damage type? We have status and crit, both of which build on top of all the other damage-influencing mechanics.

[Hellfire_Maximus]

59 minutes ago, Gandergear said:

but hopefully your eyes will get adjusted staring at that shining city that you can start seeing the cracks.

so your suggesting that DE should replace 90% of the bricks of the shining city and replace them with what?  new bricks?

tell us than. . . after DEbuffing the mods How are we supposed to make weapons and frames powerful then with hopes and dreams? u want them to introduce a skill tree type system in which u can unlock a perk point every time u rank up a weapon and use the points that boosts a certain stat of the weapon or frame? the whole game is effected directly or indirectly by the mod system and u r suggesting to power it down.....its like u r suggesting humans to stop eating normal food and permanently switch to foodpaste(Fallout 4 reference)

1 hour ago, Gandergear said:

Do I believe IPS 2.0 will fix anything? No i dont because their original idea was so outlandishly off kilter to what the community

you said you find it " very disturbing when people interpret feedback as 'its awful change it' " ur not giving feedback on the up coming changes......ur completely rejecting them

The game is improving but the so called balance u r suggesting that will improve it is outright game-breaking and will bring even more imbalance and make players lose interest.

[Gandergear]

37 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

And what is the problem with there being 2 branches of damage type? We have status and crit, both of which build on top of all the other damage-influencing mechanics.

Whats wrong? Nothing besides how they fundamentally work. Id be hard pressed to not use vital sense, point strike, and hunter m in every crit build i make which is the problem. I can do it and I have for many weapons, but it doesnt change the fact that the current system pushes mods into being unusable which is something I find problematic.

[NeithanDiniem]

8 hours ago, Gandergear said:

Whats wrong? Nothing besides how they fundamentally work. Id be hard pressed to not use vital sense, point strike, and hunter m in every crit build i make which is the problem. I can do it and I have for many weapons, but it doesnt change the fact that the current system pushes mods into being unusable which is something I find problematic.

So your problem is mandatory mods, not the damage types at all. Got it. Specify the actual problem instead of being vague about it so discussion can progress.

As for mandatory mods, Yes I agree that there are some that should simply get out of here. Innately add them to weapons using a tech tree system like we had over 5 years ago, with a consumable to unlock the nodes, perhaps endo then kuva for later nodes. These would be the basic damage mods or simplistic stat increases pretty much, little more. However, the total amount of work needed to alter the combat system would effectively require the entire combat part of this game, and everything associated with it, to be adjusted heavily, which would pretty much be reinventing the core of what Warframe is. And I can guarantee you that no one will ever come up with an idea that everyone will like. A large number will definitely not like the change because to them it will not do what they want.

[Gandergear]

On 4/12/2018 at 12:07 AM, NeithanDiniem said:

So your problem is mandatory mods, not the damage types at all. Got it. Specify the actual problem instead of being vague about it so discussion can progress.

As for mandatory mods, Yes I agree that there are some that should simply get out of here. Innately add them to weapons using a tech tree system like we had over 5 years ago, with a consumable to unlock the nodes, perhaps endo then kuva for later nodes. These would be the basic damage mods or simplistic stat increases pretty much, little more. However, the total amount of work needed to alter the combat system would effectively require the entire combat part of this game, and everything associated with it, to be adjusted heavily, which would pretty much be reinventing the core of what Warframe is. And I can guarantee you that no one will ever come up with an idea that everyone will like. A large number will definitely not like the change because to them it will not do what they want.

So you ignore my entire original argument because 1 facet of it i clearly discussed, that several mods need to be depowered, is so vague you couldnt get it? Mandatory mods are a symptom, even if you do some random system to make them less required it DOESNT change the enemy scaling from being unbalanced.

50x power magnitude difference is the problem for weapons, for frames its the uncapped range, str, duration that DE decides to 'balance' by making them more required.

 

[NeithanDiniem]

5 minutes ago, Gandergear said:

So you ignore my entire original argument because 1 facet of it i clearly discussed, that several mods need to be depowered, is so vague you couldnt get it? Mandatory mods are a symptom, even if you do some random system to make them less required it DOESNT change the enemy scaling from being unbalanced.

50x power magnitude difference is the problem for weapons, for frames its the uncapped range, str, duration that DE decides to 'balance' by making them more required.

 

You notice I said it would require the entire combat system of the game to be remade, effectively addressing the enemy scaling.

And no, I did not ignore your original argument, it wasn't the point of the question I made. My question was strictly and only in relation to your reply to my question about 2 branches of damage; Crit and Status. I am aware mods need to be depowered. I am aware some need to be removed. I'm aware that some need to be applied using a different math. However, outside of pure damage, which benefits both crit and status equally, there is nothing else. There IS no other type of damage. You either are raw damage with low crit and status, or you go status to use enemy weaknesses to deal more damage based off your raw, or you use crit to deal multiplicative damage based off your raw. Modding for one or the other is unavoidable. Expecting there to be a third option is rather silly.

[Gandergear]

4 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

You notice I said it would require the entire combat system of the game to be remade, effectively addressing the enemy scaling.

And no, I did not ignore your original argument, it wasn't the point of the question I made. My question was strictly and only in relation to your reply to my question about 2 branches of damage; Crit and Status. I am aware mods need to be depowered. I am aware some need to be removed. I'm aware that some need to be applied using a different math. However, outside of pure damage, which benefits both crit and status equally, there is nothing else. There IS no other type of damage. You either are raw damage with low crit and status, or you go status to use enemy weaknesses to deal more damage based off your raw, or you use crit to deal multiplicative damage based off your raw. Modding for one or the other is unavoidable. Expecting there to be a third option is rather silly.

The third option is the one DE clearly wants to enforce by making bosses immune to status and damage capping crit.

[NeithanDiniem]

2 minutes ago, Gandergear said:

The third option is the one DE clearly wants to enforce by making bosses immune to status and damage capping crit.

How is that in any way a branch of damage? Thats a way for bosses to not get killed as fast, not a way to mod your weapon to deal damage differently from status or crit. Specifically, it USES status and crit, where enemies are immune or take less effect from either. It is not a different branch.

[Gandergear]

34 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

How is that in any way a branch of damage? Thats a way for bosses to not get killed as fast, not a way to mod your weapon to deal damage differently from status or crit. Specifically, it USES status and crit, where enemies are immune or take less effect from either. It is not a different branch.

Well since i never said i wanted a new branch, i still dont know what youre getting at besides steering the argument into aomething you can more easily dismiss.

I SAID id be hard pressed not to use 4 dual stats or the 3 mandatory, this ties into mandatory mods, i also said the game was poorly balanced, this tied into the power of the mods in general. Both of these make other mods unviable.

Youre clinging on a tertiary portion of a secondary argument.