What A "prime" Should Be.

[Seraiya.Gier]

You look at a prime weapon/frame, what do you see? Aside from gold trim you can't change the color to? For a weapon, it's usually an improvement to it, and or an alteration(For the most part recent prime weapons appears to be somewhat vast improvements over the other version.) For a frame? Gold trim, an added or changed polarity slots. No other additional bonuses. What is a Prime? You would assume it's either the original or enhanced version of an item. Which would make it leagues better than the other version.

 

By using that logic, we can surmise that a Prime Frame would of course outshine the other version by a greater margin like the weapons would. Perhaps by removing the weakness of the frame, adding a different feature aside from the whole...

 

Prime Frame: Hey guys! Check out this massive ceramic scrote! It shoots lasers! *Gets blasted by lasers* Oh, these... These scrotes... They give me power untold! I feel energized!

 

Non Prime Frame: What are you- *Gets sliced in two*

 

Yeah, that unique ability is useless. A Prime Frame should outshine its other version in every way. Otherwise, what would be the point of getting it, aside for mastery and MAYBE liking the aesthetic change? Oh shiny, gold trim and a gaudy helmet! There should be a reason why they're Primes. They should always be better. Judging by the recent Primes released, you can see that DE is slowly changing how each prime is. If I recall, Ember Prime is the only prime frame that has entirely different polarities than her original counterpart allowing more offensive mods to be added. Rhino Prime had his one drawback removed(His slow movement speed). This looks like they're going to the path of making Primes superior to their other counter parts, as it should be.

 

Let's say Loki Prime was next, what is his primary drawback? His low shields and health? Would you assume that his prime version would have higher shields and health? I would think so. As it would improve upon the other version. Aesthetic and an added polarity are silly for Primes, they should always be better than the other version. Otherwise, it's nothing more than a glorified gold trimmed aesthetic. You want a prime because it's supposed to be better. Not because of a gold trim.

 

Edit/Added part: An idea, perhaps Prime frames can have their abilities enhanced in some sort of manner. Or their base stats(Such as having more power strength, duration etc). This making them more different and better than their other version. As for the ability improvement: Let's say Iron Skin may absorb more damage, or Ember's Fireball does vastly more damage and or has a 100% chance to proc the on fire effect even when it isn't a direct hit to the face. If you're one of those people who want everything to be h o mogenized for the sake of balance, then you're what's wrong with the game.

 

 

Tl;dr Prime weapons and Frames should always be an improvement upon the other version, and not a silly aesthetic change.

Edited March 9, 2014 by Reokudo

[DMan]

It's all about the swag really...

[123Olympian]

I am just wanting it for the fact of the Prime and polarization.

 

Note, they did announce on making Primes more unique, without making the original be eaten by power creep.

[Kickboxing_Banana]

I don't care about the improvements, I just get Prime weapons for the sexy looks.

[Petersheikah]

Rhino introduced the stat improvement, he's faster than the standard one. But that's a small change, i agree with you.

I don't care about the improvements, I just get Prime weapons for the sexy looks.

Ahahah same. Edited March 9, 2014 by Petersheikah

[SolidSp33d]

Boy oh boy you wouldn't like Legendaries in GW2.

 

And no, they are just find being for the swag. Problem is they need more swag. Revamped effects, maybe auras (not the mods), and all that.

Edited March 9, 2014 by SolidSp33d

[Seraiya.Gier]

I am just wanting it for the fact of the Prime and polarization.

 

Note, they did announce on making Primes more unique, without making the original be eaten by power creep.

The older versions should technically be made obsolete by the prime. It should be an improvement over the other. After all, if you bought an item that was mass produced but lost what had made it good in the first place; then suddenly see the original version which outshines the mass produced in every possible way... Would you not want the original?

 

All this speak of power creep is silly.

[Seraiya.Gier]

Boy oh boy you wouldn't like Legendaries in GW2.

 

And no, they are just find being for the swag. Problem is they need more swag. Revamped effects, maybe auras (not the mods), and all that.

Luckily I quit GW2 when I was in the 40's. That game was just... Bland. But that's a story for another day.

[Seraiya.Gier]

Rhino introduced the stat improvement, he's faster than the standard one. But that's a small change, i agree with you.

Ahahah same.

Yeah, it's a step in the right direction. By making the Prime somewhat better than the other version. The next Prime frame will probably make a more drastic change to it. Baby steps apparently.

[Seox]

Yeah, power creep is a real concern. While I want to see primes stand out from their normal counterparts, I also don't want wholly superior prime frames to give people no reason to run anything else. I'm not sure what ways those two concerns could be reconciled, though.

[Un1337ninj4]

I disagree, not for the idea, but for the second thought of it. Lets face it, a Prime frame says "I actually worked for this frame because I LIKE it.", if they upgraded stats on frame it would make it to "I MUST get this because even though I don't like the frame.". I hope they nerf Rhino Prime's speed.

 

With weapons it's not as big a deal due to the nature of weapons themselves, how many weapons do you have? Now how many frames do you have? You know like hell if every Tenno weapon (as they eventually will) had it's Prime released, you wouldn't farm all of them even IF they all had stat increases and you liked every single one! With weapons you actually have to get rewarded I believe, as such I shall once again plea for Bo Prime.

 

I detest the word "swag" however.... such a grotesque mutation of the language I speak. 

 

EDIT: For a tweak in my first statement, as well as a notice for the OP, I shall follow this post, I await an interesting discussion.

Edited March 9, 2014 by un1337ninj4

[Deidaku]

I KNOW! primes should get 1 passive abiloty that the original doesn't have : 

 

Like : Rhino prime has innate knockdown resist chance 

 

Ember prime : higher chance of Burning stat proc , or has a chance to ignore fire dmg  /same for frost but for freezing

 

Mag: Has a small chance to repell enemies violently on contact but dealing minor damage

 

Excal prime : no idea: just better stats

[123Olympian]

The older versions should technically be made obsolete by the prime. It should be an improvement over the other. After all, if you bought an item that was mass produced but lost what had made it good in the first place; then suddenly see the original version which outshines the mass produced in every possible way... Would you not want the original?

 

All this speak of power creep is silly.

Heh, power creep can destroy a game with ease if not shown care. Watch some extra credits to get at least a jist. 

 

Honestly, nothing should be made obsolete, it's a game, and obviously hate is going to come with it.

 

I am sure not everyone wants to have the prime destroy the regular.

[Seraiya.Gier]

I disagree, not for the idea, but for the second thought of it. Lets face it, a Prime frame says "I actually worked for this frame because I LIKE it.", if they upgraded stats on frame it would make it to "I MUST get this because even though I don't like the frame.". I hope they nerf Rhino Prime's speed.

 

With weapons it's not as big a deal due to the nature of weapons themselves, how many weapons do you have? Now how many frames do you have? You know like hell if every Tenno weapon (as they eventually will) had it's Prime released, you wouldn't farm all of them even IF they all had stat increases and you liked every single one! With weapons you actually have to get rewarded I believe, as such I shall once again plea for Bo Prime.

 

I detest the word "swag" however.... such a grotesque mutation of the language I speak. 

You'd get both versions regardless. For the sole sake of raising your mastery. You start out with the crapper version, then work your way up to the better version. There's always a weapon you outright dislike, but level it anyway because you need the mastery points. Then you immediately toss it. Then the prime version/vandal/wraith come out, you try it, and maybe you like it.

 

I foresee there being many primes, not as many as weapons, but getting close to it in the future. Ideally, you would assume that a primed frame would make it better. Not just give it an aesthetic/polarity change.

[PoorCensored]

I posted this in a different threat, but I think it applies here:

 

Unless they are going to make Excalibur Prime available again, I don't want primes with anything more than aesthetic features and maybe different polarity slots. If they buff all the Primes, there will be outrage that the better Excalibur is not available for play. If they buff them all except Excalibur (or if they re-release him), there will be outrage that the founders paid for nothing special. (Though, at least if they re-release him, there will be some happiness by newer players able to get him.)

[Seraiya.Gier]

Heh, power creep can destroy a game with ease if not shown care. Watch some extra credits to get at least a jist. 

 

Honestly, nothing should be made obsolete, it's a game, and obviously hate is going to come with it.

 

I am sure not everyone wants to have the prime destroy the regular.

Power Creep to me simply means that it's a game breaking change. Like introducing a weapon that has such a massive damage advantage over the others. Like a primary weapon (Let's say it's a Railgun) that does 20k damage in a massive line in front of it, pierces all targets and obstacles. Upon impact with a surface(Like a wall or floor mainly) it causes an explosion that does double the damage. This makes every other weapon pointless. As such, should not exist.

 

A prime however, should be an improvement aside form a polarity and aesthetic. Like someone mentioned, maybe a passive ability also works.

[Seraiya.Gier]

I posted this in a different threat, but I think it applies here:

 

Unless they are going to make Excalibur Prime available again, I don't want primes with anything more than aesthetic features and maybe different polarity slots. If they buff all the Primes, there will be outrage that the better Excalibur is not available for play. If they buff them all except Excalibur (or if they re-release him), there will be outrage that the founders paid for nothing special. (Though, at least if they re-release him, there will be some happiness by newer players able to get him.)

People play Excalibur!?(Aside from new players.) Jokes aside, then the same would apply for other weapons that were released from events that are exclusive. Such as Strun Wraith, which I missed. That follows the same concept. Exclusive is exclusive. DE would have to give Founders something else aside from Excalibur Prime and those other things to compensate for a re-release. Granted, I could care less if they do, but at least give us founders something shiny(Maybe a Syndana!)

[_Zexis]

The older versions should technically be made obsolete by the prime. It should be an improvement over the other. After all, if you bought an item that was mass produced but lost what had made it good in the first place; then suddenly see the original version which outshines the mass produced in every possible way... Would you not want the original?

 

All this speak of power creep is silly.

I disagree, I think this is bad design.

 

Not to mention how many people would throw a fit at DE, claiming they're pushing Prime Access too hard, P2W, etc.

[Un1337ninj4]

You'd get both versions regardless. For the sole sake of raising your mastery. You start out with the crapper version, then work your way up to the better version. There's always a weapon you outright dislike, but level it anyway because you need the mastery points. Then you immediately toss it. Then the prime version/vandal/wraith come out, you try it, and maybe you like it.

 

I foresee there being many primes, not as many as weapons, but getting close to it in the future. Ideally, you would assume that a primed frame would make it better. Not just give it an aesthetic/polarity change.

I understand your argument, however I stand against it. The Prime frames I see as an "honor" status if you will, as you can see I payed for EmberP yes, however that is due to my fanaticism over her playstyle. That said I've used, sold, made, and leveled almost every weap/frame as I'm sure you have. That said it still stands that Primes were originally meant for novelty status. If Primes were buffed, it'd make normal frames obsolete trash... I'm against the full picture. Look at Loki, now imagine if he ran even faster. Look at Nova, what if she had enough of a defensive capacity to make her not squishy! What if Valkyr had even MORE armor!? This could easily break the game, however as I meant with the weapons. While they may be your main source of damage, they are limited. a frames energy is arguably also so. However certain things in combination destroy the thought.

 

I say keep it as is to maintain the "This is something I'm proud of" over "This is something I needed, I wish that wasn't the case", keep it "I'm using your big bro, but it's cool, we're on equal terms". Preventing master race issues especially! 

 

I'm awaiting your counter argument. And as a matter of fact I do play Excal frequently, along with my starter Mag Prime. His Blind is right up there with Chaos and his mobility is second to Zephyr.

Edited March 9, 2014 by un1337ninj4

[RoboDoge]

People play Excalibur!?(Aside from new players.) Jokes aside, then the same would apply for other weapons that were released from events that are exclusive. Such as Strun Wraith, which I missed. That follows the same concept. Exclusive is exclusive. DE would have to give Founders something else aside from Excalibur Prime and those other things to compensate for a re-release. Granted, I could care less if they do, but at least give us founders something shiny(Maybe a Syndana!)

Problem is, there is so many frames and you could never get prime of the like of Valkyr, Zephyr or Oberon. And other problem would arise when people stop potaoting regular ones because they become obsolete when prime version is released.

 

You are simply wanting more power on prime frames. I dont like that idea simply because there will be no point in using anything that isnt prime.

 

We dont need more power creep, we need balance. And you dont understand that.

 

Primes being more shiny is perfectly fine with me. I dont expect them to be more powerful or anything else than cosmetic upgrade for the regular frame.

[_Zexis]

I like Primes as they are right now. It reminds me a bit of Prestige mode from Call of Duty: you put in extra effort for something that looks pretty but doesn't give any real advantage. 

[Seraiya.Gier]

I disagree, I think this is bad design.

 

Not to mention how many people would throw a fit at DE, claiming they're pushing Prime Access too hard, P2W, etc.

I don't see how Pay 2 Win plays into Warframe, what do you win by paying money? It's more of pay to not wait. If this was an MMORPG(Take TERA for example.) Where you can buy several cosmetic items, sell them, make a bunch of money and buy the near best(If not the best) possible making it so you don't have to do anything anymore. In a game where the primary thing you do is mindlessly murder things and level equipment. What is there to win? We're not fighting massive space dragons and competing with each other to see who beats a raid first. We're all mindlessly grinding equipment.

[Seraiya.Gier]

I understand your argument, however I stand against it. The Prime frames I see as an "honor" status if you will, as you can see I payed for EmberP yes, however that is due to my fanaticism over her playstyle. That said I've used, sold, made, and leveled almost every weap/frame as I'm sure you have. That said it still stands that Primes were originally meant for novelty status. If Primes were buffed, it'd make normal frames obsolete trash... I'm against the full picture. Look at Loki, now imagine if he ran even faster. Look at Nova, what if she had enough of a defensive capacity to make her not squishy! What if Valkyr had even MORE armor!? This could easily break the game, however as I meant with the weapons. While they may be your main source of damage, they are limited. a frames energy is arguably also so. However certain things in combination destroy the thought.

 

I say keep it as is to maintain the "This is something I'm proud of" over "This is something I needed, I wish that wasn't the case", keep it "I'm using your big bro, but it's cool, we're on equal terms". Preventing master race issues especially! 

 

I'm awaiting your counter argument. And as a matter of fact I do play Excal frequently, along with my starter Mag Prime. His Blind is right up there with Chaos and his mobility is second to Zephyr.

Like I mentioned above about Loki Prime, I'd assume his buff would be to his shields and health. No need to make the fastest fame faster. Just improve upon his weaknesses. A Prime frame would remove, or dampen their drawback. Rhino's was speed, now his prime version is no longer a turtle. I never saw them as a novelty. I always assumed they were better than the other. Even if it was/is minor. Whether it's a small passive buff, to improved abilities, or even things such as power strength and the like.

 

I don't see pride in something you may or may not have spent a long time obtaining and or making good. It's more of a testament to your free time and dedication to seeing what you like become good in your eyes. If they're all the same, with no improvement upon the other; they're nothing more than a golden statue of worthlessness. Forever meant to casually be used whenever you feel like being a pretty princess.

[Un1337ninj4]

Like I mentioned above about Loki Prime, I'd assume his buff would be to his shields and health. No need to make the fastest fame faster. Just improve upon his weaknesses. A Prime frame would remove, or dampen their drawback. Rhino's was speed, now his prime version is no longer a turtle. I never saw them as a novelty. I always assumed they were better than the other. Even if it was/is minor. Whether it's a small passive buff, to improved abilities, or even things such as power strength and the like.

 

I don't see pride in something you may or may not have spent a long time obtaining and or making good. It's more of a testament to your free time and dedication to seeing what you like become good in your eyes. If they're all the same, with no improvement upon the other; they're nothing more than a golden statue of worthlessness. Forever meant to casually be used whenever you feel like being a pretty princess.

I guess you could also say we are indeed a testament of how DE can't make everyone happy.

[Seraiya.Gier]

Problem is, there is so many frames and you could never get prime of the like of Valkyr, Zephyr or Oberon. And other problem would arise when people stop potaoting regular ones because they become obsolete when prime version is released.

 

You are simply wanting more power on prime frames. I dont like that idea simply because there will be no point in using anything that isnt prime.

 

We dont need more power creep, we need balance. And you dont understand that.

 

Primes being more shiny is perfectly fine with me. I dont expect them to be more powerful or anything else than cosmetic upgrade for the regular frame.

I'd imagine Valkyr would get a "Vandal" version considering she's of Corpus make.Zephyr and Oberon on the other hand, unless DE state otherwise, I don't see how they wouldn't get a prime. (Unless they're like Nova, and are a "Modern Day Tenno")

 

Balance can be seen through different perspectives. One balance is to homogenize every weapon and frame so nothing outdoes the other. That way everyone is happy to the extent where you'd be like Well, everything is the same, I can use whatever I want and still be good! whereas the other argument over balance could be: My weapon isn't as good as this newly released one. It pales in comparison in every way. I want it brought down to my weapons level so I don't feel obsolete. Slap a mastery rank requirement on strong equipment? That's only a band-aid.

 

In a game solely about getting equipment, and leveling said equipment, there will always be vastly superior items, and even superior versions of said items. In the endless cycle that is MMORPG(Which is this isn't, but the concept is the same), you grind to get gear to get better gear to get even better gear. Until the game is changed, it will always be that way. This Power Creep is silly.