Hydroid 2.0 - The Water Ninja

[Hammahness808]

I would like to believe this game more oriented towards Ninjas and would like to see a different version of Hydroid that could make this happen by changing at least two of his abilities (though I typed up a complete kit work around). Tidal surge and Undertow have been thrown out the door. Tidal surge because it needs a few changes to make it more viable as a charge/mobility ability and Undertow because I think it's a bit too passive. See the first and third ability for my new ability suggestions - this is what I'm mostly looking for feedback on.

 

The rest is just what else I could think, explanations are in each spoiler.

 

 

First ability

 

Water Decoy (undertow replacement)

 

Hyrdoid leaves a water decoy of himself behind to draw enemy fire away from himself. Visually like Molt. The ability does no damage to attackers, has no life, and is based on duration. The kicker, is that bullets pass right through it, it's not solid. Meaning if you try to hide behind it, you'll get shot. The ability would be recastable and form a seperate decoy on each cast. Meaning with the right amount of energy, you could have 10+ on the field.

 

Suggested stats: 15 energy cost, 5/8/10s duration.

 

Why?: It fits his theme of being a water elemental/being and of being stealthy. His original first ability is to summon and rain down projectiles from the ceiling of wherever, with heavy impact. Hardly covert or stealthy. It's also random, there's a small chance that it doesn't even hit an enemy or knock them down, which is what it's used for - CC.

 

Augment suggestion - Melee attackers that hit the clone get stuck in very thick syrupy water.

 

Second ability

Partial suggestion:

Radial water wave - a quick outburst that knocks all enemies down in like a 15m radius. Allowing for ground finishers and a breather.

 

Third ability

 

Mist/Fog (Tidal surge replacement)

 

Hydroid speeds up(or slows down) the molecules of water in the air around him to reduce visibility and cause some enemies to panic. (though I believe certain enemies should be immune as they might use thermal vision.

 

Suggested stats: 75 energy cost, 10/12/15s duration, 15/20/25m range

-Reduces enemy visibility to 1-2m and enemies in affected area suffer a 5% chance to panic, in which they run away from the mist. Enemies are outlined in the selected energy color. Mist will always be white/light grey.

Alternative cost: 50 base cost, 5 energy/s

 

Ability Augment - Opens enemies to (melee) finishers.

 

It's been suggested before me and I've suggested it myself in a couple threads but it would be a great ability for Hydroid and fitting his theme.

 

Fourth ability

 

First suggestion:

Tempest Barrage, that's right, his original first ability. I wanted to see it move to the 4th slot because it would be more worth of a damaging ability than one relied on to cause area denial/stagger.

 

100 energy cost

10/12/15s duration

18/20/22m range

300 damage per projectile (50% puncture/50% impact)

 

Each projectile causes a blast proc within 3m of impact and a puncture proc on contact. When I think of density, I think of the total area of ability, at least 75-80% of it being hit by the projectiles.

 

 

 

Second suggestion:

Pressure

 

Hydroid pushes out with force and precision, jamming every ranged weapon and enemy crevice with water collected from the air and their own bodies. This jams every ranged weapon and causes finisher damage over time. Staggers all affected enemies in ability range on cast and then every 3-4 seconds.

 

Suggested stats:

100 energy, 18/20/22m range, 10/12/14s duration, 400/500/600 total finisher damage (affected by str) over total duration

Edited November 3, 2015 by TGKazein

[Ceryk]

Few points.

 

Firstly, he's got a stealth power. His puddle mode is like a ninja hiding in water. With the added benefit of trapping enemies and leaving them open to ground attacks.

 

Secondly, they're basing things off fictional ninja, and some of them rely on mystical ninja magic more than than martial arts or stealth.

 

Third, Ninja is probably more of a sell line. They're probably basing things more on any kind of Eastern Martial Arts action hero archetypes.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Ceryk

[Urlan]

We are Space Ninja, we use grenade weapons as stealth weapons in the same squads as bow and auto rifles. We have space magic powers and wear suits made of space zombie materials. I don't think using the mythical exploits of fantasy and real life ninja as a basis for our awesome Guyver and Wuxia style Tenno.

[Hammahness808]

Few points.

 

Firstly, he's got a stealth power. His puddle mode is like a ninja hiding in water. With the added benefit of trapping enemies and leaving them open to ground attacks.

 

Secondly, they're basing things off fictional ninja, and some of them rely on mystical ninja magic more than than martial arts or stealth.

 

Third, Ninja is probably more of a sell line. They're probably basing things more on any kind of Eastern Martial Arts action hero archetypes.

Edited the OP, to better explain why I posted. I don't want people picking apart my explanation for the post, read the abilities and leave feedback on that please.

Edited November 3, 2015 by TGKazein

[(PSN)KestralSylver]

I don't like any of the suggested ability replacements more than the abilities they are suggested to replace. 

 

The decoy thing is a bit overused considering Molt and Decoy already exist. Two frames sharing a power is understandable but three is unnecessary (even if they work a bit differently from one another)

 

I personally enjoy Tempest Barrage as an AoE stagger ability, and would prefer it stay as such. It could offer a bit more damage potential while still staying worthy of its first ability slot.

 

I don't really get why Mist would cause enemies to panic. They don't even panic when World on Fire is active, which is a much more visible threat. In fact, barring Terrify it would be the only skill that actually causes enemies to fear it. It still has room to be an interesting skill, but as it is suggested I don't see how it's any different than Nekros' Terrify ability save for it being an area of effect. Not to mention that the stealth aspect of this ability is incredibly similar to Wukong's ability (I forget the name).

 

As for Pressure, disarming enemies is an overpowered mechanic by nature and I feel like that is one of Loki's only niches that makes him truly unique. I'm not a big fan of multiple frames covering a niche (especially since Loki and Nyx already dip into one anothers' niches with their augments), I'd prefer they all offer something different instead. At the very least Pressure would cause DoT but at that same time that makes it very similar to Irradiating Disarm.

 

And for the Radial Water Wave, it reminds me of abilities like Silence or Accelerant which is great for the radial stun and whatnot but outside of that they're usually fairly useless. Yes, it would be good for getting you out of a tight situation, but so would Tidal Surge, since it actually knocks down enemies AND transports you elsewhere. I'd take his Tidal Surge over that 9 times out of 10.

 

All in all, I don't see Hydroid as one of the frames that should excel at stealth in the game. I don't think all frames should. The base mechanics in the game already allow for stealth play regardless of frame choice. Making all frames have a stealth oriented ability set is unnecessary in my eyes. I personally see Hydroid more as an AoE CC master. Which he currently is, though there is certainly room for improvement. I've made a couple of Hydroid rework threads in the past as well, most of my suggestions were intended to amplify his already crowd control oriented skill set. 

 

I'm not trying to bring you down or anything, I just don't see how any of your suggestions would make Hydroid more unique. He'd be yet another frame that doesn't particularly excel at any particular role, save for stealth. In my opinion stealth abilities are fundamentally useless when I can beat high level Spy missions without setting off a single alarm with Rhino or Frost who have no stealth oriented abilities at all.

Edited November 3, 2015 by (PS4)KestralSylver

[Hammahness808]

I don't like any of the suggested ability replacements more than the abilities they are suggested to replace. 

 

The decoy thing is a bit overused considering Molt and Decoy already exist. Two frames sharing a power is understandable but three is unnecessary (even if they work a bit differently from one another)

 

I personally enjoy Tempest Barrage as an AoE stagger ability, and would prefer it stay as such. It could offer a bit more damage potential while still staying worthy of its first ability slot.

 

I don't really get why Mist would cause enemies to panic. They don't even panic when World on Fire is active, which is a much more visible threat. In fact, barring Terrify it would be the only skill that actually causes enemies to fear it. It still has room to be an interesting skill, but as it is suggested I don't see how it's any different than Nekros' Terrify ability save for it being an area of effect. Not to mention that the stealth aspect of this ability is incredibly similar to Wukong's ability (I forget the name).

 

As for Pressure, disarming enemies is an overpowered mechanic by nature and I feel like that is one of Loki's only niches that makes him truly unique. I'm not a big fan of multiple frames covering a niche (especially since Loki and Nyx already dip into one anothers' niches with their augments), I'd prefer they all offer something different instead. At the very least Pressure would cause DoT but at that same time that makes it very similar to Irradiating Disarm.

 

And for the Radial Water Wave, it reminds me of abilities like Silence or Accelerant which is great for the radial stun and whatnot but outside of that they're usually fairly useless. Yes, it would be good for getting you out of a tight situation, but so would Tidal Surge, since it actually knocks down enemies AND transports you elsewhere. I'd take his Tidal Surge over that 9 times out of 10.

 

All in all, I don't see Hydroid as one of the frames that should excel at stealth in the game. I don't think all frames should. The base mechanics in the game already allow for stealth play regardless of frame choice. Making all frames have a stealth oriented ability set is unnecessary in my eyes. I personally see Hydroid more as an AoE CC master. Which he currently is, though there is certainly room for improvement. I've made a couple of Hydroid rework threads in the past as well, most of my suggestions were intended to amplify his already crowd control oriented skill set. 

 

I'm not trying to bring you down or anything, I just don't see how any of your suggestions would make Hydroid more unique. He'd be yet another frame that doesn't particularly excel at any particular role, save for stealth. In my opinion stealth abilities are fundamentally useless when I can beat high level Spy missions without setting off a single alarm with Rhino or Frost who have no stealth oriented abilities at all.

Thank you for the long response. Hydroid in appearance doesn't appear to be a stealth frame and that's fine. I mostly want to see him have the ability to use "Mist/Fog". Especially in replacement of Tidal Surge, it's a charge forward attack deals less damage than Rhino's or Excal's and it's buggy in the fact that it gets easily stuck on any floor elevation changes or a solid object clip. Alternatively, could be an augment mod that changes Tidal or Undertow completely. I think it would have great potential as AoE CC.

 

Radial water wave would actually be more like a mixture between Fireblast or a 360 degree Valkyr paralysis.

 

"Pressure" is just out there for feedback. I didn't put time into thinking it through but, trying to think of an Ultimate/100 energy use ability that isn't a massive tidal wave or other stereotype water ability was a little difficult. It's similar to Disarm but it doesn't permanently remove the weapons from the enemy's hands or force them into melee.

Edited November 3, 2015 by TGKazein

[AethonWalker]

I like the creativity behind the abilities, but I've always seen Hydroid as a pirate lord meets the kraken type of dude.

 

Could his 1st be better? Yeah, I could see adding a bit more aoe to the projectiles to fix it up the rest of the way. I mean, with the update that made it recastable, it got way better imo. His 1st is kinda like a captain testing his (wo)men's resolve through a storm.

 

His 2nd is pretty decent, although a good rework would be to make enemies drag along with the tide so you can do lots more damage. (Idk if it does that now, I haven't used him in a while.)

 

His 3rd is nice for creating an exclusion zone. The only way to make it stronger at this point is to increase its strength and make it larger.

 

Finally, his 4th merely needs better targeting to make it on par with other abilities. When his Tentacle Swarm hits where I want it to, nothing gets through, and loads of things die (with the added drop benefit, I might add!), so if we could get the targeting to be more consistent and not randomly have the tentacles all over the place, it would really help.

 

Overall, the creativity is good, but Hydroids abilities are, imo, better off just getting buffed up a bit.