Widow Frame

[RenTsune]

Caught tail end of Warframe Prime Time #3, and saw the fan art segment.  First thing, whoever drew that one Nekros picture did an awesome job.  Now that was a real scythe.  Second thing, the concept piece of a Widow frame gave me some ideas and I thought I'd share them.

 

1: Silk Lariat

25 cost
Pulls a target, poisoning for 2/3/4/5 dmg/sec and stunning for 1/2/3/4 seconds

 

2: Terror Bomb (working name)

50 cost

Hurls a mass of envenomed sticky webbing that clings to and panics the target (see the effects of setting an enemy on fire) for 8/9/10/12 seconds and spreading to 4 + (3*duration modifier rounded down to nearest whole number, current max of 8)

3: Silk Wall

75 cost

Places a wall H = 2m, D = .33m, W = 5m at a 90 degree orientation from the direction Widow faces 1m in front of the frame

Cannot be walked through, does not impede projectiles.
Deals 5/10/15/25 poison damage to victims stuck in the wall every second.
wall lasts 20 seconds, can be increased by Continuity/Constitution

4: Nest of Webs

100 cost
Widow spins a spherical prison of web and poison, binding up to 3 targets at a time within 7/10/12/15 meters and slowing the rest, dealing 1000/1000/2000/3500 damage per second over 6/8/12/15 seconds.  Widow is invulnerable during cast.  Power duration decreases time between ticks.

 

Spent a good couple hours hammering out the balancing issues we could think of, though I don't expect we did a perfect job.  As far as visuals, instead of an airborne toxin in the form of a cloud, I'm thinking the venom should be a shimmer effect (based on energy color) coating the webbing.  Similar to the shimmer on the ice of Frosts' Snow globe.

 

For a look at the pic that inspired this fit of number-crunching and brainstorming:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/119223-widow-warframe-sketch/?hl=widow

 

(I take no credit for the artwork contained in the above link, that goes to the person who originally posted the thread.)

 

Extra note: Check back every now and again, I will edit this post rather than make new ones after making tweaks to the stats and powers to keep this thread organized.

Edited October 19, 2013 by RenTsune

[Llyssa]

No web swinging? =(

[nethercry]

Something we forgot to add....some stats.

 

Warframe Name: Widow

Frame Size: Medium

 

Health: 125 (350.0 at rank 30)

Power: 150 (225.0 at rank 30)

Armor: 60

Shield Capacity: 50 (150 at rank 30)

Shield Recharge: 25.0

Sprint Speed: 1.0

 

Polarities --

4x Power

1x Attack

1x Tactic

1x Tactic (Aura)

 

Additional Notes:

* Power Range does not affect this frame's abilities.

* Power Strength increases the damage of all abilities.

Edited October 18, 2013 by nethercry

[RenTsune]

No web swinging? =(

I've heard DE is considering grappling hooks at some point, plus it wouldn't be all that useful as a power, so we came up with alternatives.  Besides, if you want web-swinging, they have spider-man games.  :p

[Llyssa]

But spiderman doesn't have an orthos prime, or grineer.

[RenTsune]

Accurate statement.  However, not really the root of the matter.  It still isn't really useful as a power, and with the possibility of grapples in the game's future, having web swinging seems not to be the best of ideas.

Edited October 19, 2013 by RenTsune

[michaelwii]

First off, I applaud you for coming up with the powers for this awesome looking piece of fan art. Absolutely fell in love with the fan art, and was hoping for someone to do a list of potential stats and powers, as I'm horrible at coming up with that (even though I'm about to critique yours xD)

 

1st ability. Don't quite understand that description. Slows down her decent? Widow is slowed down? Her prey?

2nd ability. Not entirely sure how this would work. Similar to Mag's pull but stuns and does very slight poison damage. Alright I guess. It would be the 1 power out of the 4 that gets left out the most (like Ash's teleport)

3rd ability. Places up a wall of webs that does not block any damage that goes through in either direction, but does traps enemies that walk into it and does damage over time? Genius considering how the AI of mobs is a bit weak imo, but it would work great as a chokepoint crowd control. Will baddies that run up to it get stuck? How many can get stuck at a time?

4th ability. Just wanna make sure I get this right: It's basically a stationary version of World on Fire? In the sense that it does damage to up to 3 enemies at a time that enter its AoE while also slowing them. Is the slow effect limited to those 3, or is it to all mobs and it's just 3 that get damaged?

Also, your numbers are way high compared to other warframes. Most do 1000-1200 damage at max rank, even if it's damage over time.

 

Final Comments: Reread your first power. If I'm understanding this correctly, it would easily become the most unused power. EVER. I kid you not. Very infrequently does someone worry about how fast they're falling down a wall, and even though it goes wonderfully with her spider theme, it's so incredibly unnecessary it doesn't justify a spot as a power. Possibly have the 1st be a sort of web that shoots out and sticks mobs to the wall against them, or just sticks to them and makes them try to untangle (similar to the panic from fire damage on grineer), and that it would last a certain amount of time. This makes two of her powers have to do with crowd control, which is what a spider is all about :D

[yeomanry]

1st skill-down low. We need Spiderwoman up in Space!

[RenTsune]

First off, I applaud you for coming up with the powers for this awesome looking piece of fan art. Absolutely fell in love with the fan art, and was hoping for someone to do a list of potential stats and powers, as I'm horrible at coming up with that (even though I'm about to critique yours xD)

 

1st ability. Don't quite understand that description. Slows down her decent? Widow is slowed down? Her prey?

2nd ability. Not entirely sure how this would work. Similar to Mag's pull but stuns and does very slight poison damage. Alright I guess. It would be the 1 power out of the 4 that gets left out the most (like Ash's teleport)

3rd ability. Places up a wall of webs that does not block any damage that goes through in either direction, but does traps enemies that walk into it and does damage over time? Genius considering how the AI of mobs is a bit weak imo, but it would work great as a chokepoint crowd control. Will baddies that run up to it get stuck? How many can get stuck at a time?

4th ability. Just wanna make sure I get this right: It's basically a stationary version of World on Fire? In the sense that it does damage to up to 3 enemies at a time that enter its AoE while also slowing them. Is the slow effect limited to those 3, or is it to all mobs and it's just 3 that get damaged?

Also, your numbers are way high compared to other warframes. Most do 1000-1200 damage at max rank, even if it's damage over time.

 

Final Comments: Reread your first power. If I'm understanding this correctly, it would easily become the most unused power. EVER. I kid you not. Very infrequently does someone worry about how fast they're falling down a wall, and even though it goes wonderfully with her spider theme, it's so incredibly unnecessary it doesn't justify a spot as a power. Possibly have the 1st be a sort of web that shoots out and sticks mobs to the wall against them, or just sticks to them and makes them try to untangle (similar to the panic from fire damage on grineer), and that it would last a certain amount of time. This makes two of her powers have to do with crowd control, which is what a spider is all about :D

Tweaked the first and second powers (and swapped their places thereafter)

The wall requires enemies to be stuck to do damage and they have to run into it.  Like the Frosts' shield its meant as a defensive measure more than anything.  Considering that enemies have mass and cannot pass through each other...as many as can come into contact with the surface can become entangled and thus take damage for the duration.

The uber, snares three and slows everything else.  Everything takes damage and if one of the first three dies another gets snared.  Those were my thoughts on it anyway...my friend can add his two cents if he wishes.

 

Admittedly I probably over thought cling.  Assisting in parkour and the potential to set up a couple shots from a sniping spot were the ideas I had in mind.  Purely a utility power.  As for the others, its more about power synergy.  You can pull an enemy, or nock an enemy, into the wall.  Using the lariat, Mag's Pull, Vauban's Vortex or Banshee's Sonic boom (forgive me if I missed any I'm not familiar with all frames).  Also the Lariat, while potentially underpowered it is still useful as a set up for your teammates.  Group tactics friends.

 

See initial post for the edits.

[Xelchon]

When I drew the art for the Widow I had some ideas about her abilities. However I liked the ideas you put into the frame better than my own. xD 

Great job. Nicely thought.

[RenTsune]

I'll make sure my clansman reads your kind words.  :3

 

I don't honestly expect DE to take this and actually make it, not without much more public support at least.  But I figured that, if I'm going to put effort into the idea...might as well not half-&#! it.

[nethercry]

Whether or not DE takes it into mind, your design was still just too good not to inspire an ability sheet mockup. <3

[michaelwii]

Tweaked the first and second powers (and swapped their places thereafter)

The wall requires enemies to be stuck to do damage and they have to run into it.  Like the Frosts' shield its meant as a defensive measure more than anything.  Considering that enemies have mass and cannot pass through each other...as many as can come into contact with the surface can become entangled and thus take damage for the duration.

The uber, snares three and slows everything else.  Everything takes damage and if one of the first three dies another gets snared.  Those were my thoughts on it anyway...my friend can add his two cents if he wishes.

 

Admittedly I probably over thought cling.  Assisting in parkour and the potential to set up a couple shots from a sniping spot were the ideas I had in mind.  Purely a utility power.  As for the others, its more about power synergy.  You can pull an enemy, or nock an enemy, into the wall.  Using the lariat, Mag's Pull, Vauban's Vortex or Banshee's Sonic boom (forgive me if I missed any I'm not familiar with all frames).  Also the Lariat, while potentially underpowered it is still useful as a set up for your teammates.  Group tactics friends.

 

See initial post for the edits.

 

Nice. I'm assuming the first ability wont be ragdoll like Mag's because you aren't just pulling, you're pulling with a physical entity (the web) which would give it some direction (specifically, towards the you, the caster). 

 

If the 3rd ability works like that, it would be an insanely effective utilitarian/defensive power, akin to Vauban's bastille (prenerf) except for one dimension, which makes it balanced enough imo. Definitely a higher tier skill.

 

4rth ability still has damage numbers way above the norm, but other than that, I'm totally down for farming, potatoing, and going crazy with this warframe. 

[Unrelenting]

we have discussed a spiderframe several times in council chat, always recieving lots of positive feedback. Several ideas on abilities were discussed.

 

shooting a string of net with 2 outcomes:

1: hitting an enemy pulls it to you and pin it down enough for a melee strike

2: hitting a wall pulls you to it.

 

Leap attack

Leap ontop of an enemy and....

 

Egg sacs

1: make small spiderlings burst forth from enemy corpses, opinion varied if it should be applied before they died or after.

 

Nets

Covering the floor with a slowing spidernet or even putting it in doorways to stop an incoming rush of enemies

 

Cocoons

Putting your enemies in cocoons, several ideas were discussed as to the use of it... some of the better ones mentioned it as a survival tactic, leeching life or adding life regen until the subject was dead.... maybe even add their hp pool before your own even though trinity already does that.

 

 

Im also in favour of a more hunting type spider frame than a venomous one(we already have saryn for that) but people also liked a funnel type spider.

[RenTsune]

Save that work for a male frame maybe?  Its actually pretty good though lacking some actual figures.

This fit of brainstorming/number crunching/discussion was inspired by a specific pic rather than the concept of a spider (again props to the artist for an awesome design).  I do recall that DE were talking about making, instead of allowing gender options for all frames, counterparts for the current frames with similar themes (IE Ember being fire themed) but different powers.  Based on the idea of a Widow, powers with venomous effects seem to make more sense. 

 

That being said, here are my thoughts on the powers you listed.

shooting a string of net with 2 outcomes:

1: hitting an enemy pulls it to you and pin it down enough for a melee strike

2: hitting a wall pulls you to it.

Not bad, quite useful if taken on its own actually, but if DE puts in a grapple it would be a moot ability.


Leap attack:  Basically Ash's Blade storm but only one target?

Egg Sacs:  I've heard about spiders that lay eggs in their prey, I'm pretty sure said prey is usually dead first but I have also seen a "monster movie" where a genetically engineered tarantula laid eggs in living prey (humans).

Nets:  I like this one, could theoretically also add something to allow the frame a bonus to dodging melee attacks while in the field.

Cocoons: Also useful, kinda incorporated this into the idea we came up with for the 4th slot ability.  Just added some poison damage and extra mechanics.

 

 

Perhaps the male spider frame could be based more on a tarantula, which rely more on the power of their bite to kill prey than the venom.  I think that concept would benefit from a lot of these.

Edited October 20, 2013 by RenTsune

[Stillbjorn]

I come bearing suggestions! may they be mocked in good taste...

 

(these suggestions are not meant to replace any specific power at this point, only to offer more options that MIGHT be used for powers)

 

Greedy Web: Essentially a frame version of the Carrier's Vacuum precept; for those times when you can see the health riiiight over there, but there's no way you'll make it that far alive (25 energy, radius of 25/30/35/40, and perhaps a continual duration effect of 1/2/3/4 seconds, to make it quite useful)

 

Fly Trap: Single target ranged, immobolizes prey in webbing and dishes out a damage over time that returns that much health to the caster (one of the things that is iconic to spiders is the fact that they drain their prey of blood for sustenance; this would help the frame be more self sufficient, and provide the only healing power in the game outside of Trinity, but be limited to only self heals, keeping it from stepping on the 'medic role' toes)

(75 energy, damage/healing of 100 every tick, ticks occur every 2 seconds. Improving this power increases the duration 3/6/9/12 seconds)

 

I'm open to alterations of these ideas, or/and, as stated before, mockery :P

[RenTsune]

Nice. I'm assuming the first ability wont be ragdoll like Mag's because you aren't just pulling, you're pulling with a physical entity (the web) which would give it some direction (specifically, towards the you, the caster). 

 

If the 3rd ability works like that, it would be an insanely effective utilitarian/defensive power, akin to Vauban's bastille (prenerf) except for one dimension, which makes it balanced enough imo. Definitely a higher tier skill.

 

4rth ability still has damage numbers way above the norm, but other than that, I'm totally down for farming, potatoing, and going crazy with this warframe. 

 

Do keep in mind that the uber places a stationary field.  Unlike World on Fire which stays centered on Ember and I do believe actually ticks off more damage than we've got listed for this one but doesn't last as long.

 

Here is the wiki data for World on fire:

• A swirling aura of Fire Damage surrounds Ember, burning up to 3 targets at a time within 7 / 10 / 12 / 15 meters for 1000 / 1200 / 2800 / 4800 damage over 4 / 4 / 8 / 12 seconds. As targets die new ones are chosen. Reduced by enemy armor.
  • Number of targets burned a time is not increased by Power Strength.
  • Burning damage ticks every 0.75 seconds.
  • Confirm that both Power Strength and Power Duration affect this ability?
• Has a cast animation time of about 2.2 seconds during which Ember is immune to disruption (energy drain) as well as stagger, stun and knockdown effects.
• Targets all types of enemies e.g. mining machines, cameras, turrets and nervos.
• Can be used while sliding and in the air.

[RenTsune]

I come bearing suggestions! may they be mocked in good taste...

 

(these suggestions are not meant to replace any specific power at this point, only to offer more options that MIGHT be used for powers)

 

Greedy Web: Essentially a frame version of the Carrier's Vacuum precept; for those times when you can see the health riiiight over there, but there's no way you'll make it that far alive (25 energy, radius of 25/30/35/40, and perhaps a continual duration effect of 1/2/3/4 seconds, to make it quite useful)

 

Fly Trap: Single target ranged, immobolizes prey in webbing and dishes out a damage over time that returns that much health to the caster (one of the things that is iconic to spiders is the fact that they drain their prey of blood for sustenance; this would help the frame be more self sufficient, and provide the only healing power in the game outside of Trinity, but be limited to only self heals, keeping it from stepping on the 'medic role' toes)

(75 energy, damage/healing of 100 every tick, ticks occur every 2 seconds. Improving this power increases the duration 3/6/9/12 seconds)

 

I'm open to alterations of these ideas, or/and, as stated before, mockery :P

 

I like the thoughts behind these.  And, ultimately, if DE decides to take this into account and making a spider frame all the proposed powers should be considered.  However, as I pointed out to the other poster who brought up the design council had already been discussing a spider themed frame, I think that these might be better suited for the male counterpart to the Widow.  Not my call in the end, just my opinion.

[michaelwii]

 

Do keep in mind that the uber places a stationary field.  Unlike World on Fire which stays centered on Ember and I do believe actually ticks off more damage than we've got listed for this one but doesn't last as long.

 

Here is the wiki data for World on fire:

• A swirling aura of Fire Damage surrounds Ember, burning up to 3 targets at a time within 7 / 10 / 12 / 15 meters for 1000 / 1200 / 2800 / 4800 damage over 4 / 4 / 8 / 12 seconds. As targets die new ones are chosen. Reduced by enemy armor.
  • Number of targets burned a time is not increased by Power Strength.
  • Burning damage ticks every 0.75 seconds.
  • Confirm that both Power Strength and Power Duration affect this ability?
• Has a cast animation time of about 2.2 seconds during which Ember is immune to disruption (energy drain) as well as stagger, stun and knockdown effects.
• Targets all types of enemies e.g. mining machines, cameras, turrets and nervos.
• Can be used while sliding and in the air.

 

 

What! Those numbers are insane! *checks wiki* Wow, I need to update the information I carry around in my head, I had assumed most ubers at max rank dealt 800-1200 damage. I was already fully behind those powers, but now I'm twice as confident and excited!

[RenTsune]

We did our best to at least make the powers comparable.  Spent a bunch of time going over existing powers to that end.

[MrA1]

OMG i really red it as "Window"

[Cobalt313]

I think I already beat you to a spider-themed Warframe:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/113774-warframe-idea-arachne/#entry1397150

[Xelchon]

I think I already beat you to a spider-themed Warframe:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/113774-warframe-idea-arachne/#entry1397150

 

Though it took a lot of time for me to finalize this sketch and the idea itself was probably older than your post (as i said i work full-time and the last few months were rather rough); I guess egg or the chicken doesn't matter anyway, somebody had to think it along the way. One way or another, great minds think the same or smt like that? Just kidding.

Good thinking, but I'm an artist so what matters for me is the artwork meshed into the idea. 

Edited October 25, 2013 by Xelchon

[Cobalt313]

Though it took a lot of time for me to finalize this sketch and the idea itself was probably older than your post (as i said i work full-time and the last few months were rather rough); I guess egg or the chicken doesn't matter anyway, somebody had to think it along the way. One way or another, great minds think the same or smt like that? Just kidding.

Good thinking, but I'm an artist so what matters for me is the artwork meshed into the idea. 

Plus I had a different design in mind for my idea; slightly more conservative, with the additional "legs" looking like minor decorative protrusions when not in use.

 

Also with a more "skinny old woman" type body build.