[Boss Concept] The Grineer Destroyer, A Boss Aimed At Endgame

[Luminati07]

Hey everyone,

 

I think I'm going to go back to writing concepts for a while. I love these things.

When I think of an idea, things just flow into my mind and I just have to type them out, otherwise I risk losing the concept forever D:

 

Anyway, this idea came to me after playing a LOT of Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn. Specifically, Ultima Weapon.

I posted a thread about boss fights a couple of weeks ago here - https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/157557-dark-souls-and-final-fantasy-xiv-boss-fights-done-right-feedback-on-warframe-boss-fights'>Link

 

On page 4, I talked about Ultima Weapon, but it started turning into a Fan Concept, so I thought it better to post it here as well. But, this one will be far more refined.

 

The main issues I have with the Warframe boss fights are the lack of pressure and team coordination.

Those are the two things I believe are required for boss fights to have any sense of difficulty.

 

Er, one thing before I start. The spoilers detailing the attacks are going to be extremely long. As I'm going to detail each one fairly intricately. What it does, when he uses it, what the attack does to the player, how it will affect positioning etc.

 

Pressure

Bosses pressuring the player to constantly be on the move.

Currently, most bosses in Warframe allow the player to stand still and just mow them down with max serration, multishot rainbow bullets.

 

In turn, if that's how bosses act, then the only way to remedy that is to make them bullet spongy, or give them invincibility phases.

 

Giving bosses attacks that force the player to stop shooting and get their asses out of the way will also prolong the life of the boss, meaning they can be less spongy. Which is exactly what Warframe needs.

 

The fast gameplay of Warframe lends itself perfectly for this kind of fight.

 

Coordination

Ok, this is a harder one to implement. But, we're talking endgame here.

Attacks that require everyone on the team to be on the ball.

 

If you don't get out of the way, you take massive damage, or you die.

 

Mechanics that might need a player to leave the fight to do a certain action, such as hit a switch, or activate something, or risk a wipe.

 

This means that players need to communicate to get the fight done. (Hey, this is marketed as a co-op game, right?)

 

"Quick, player 1! Run to the switch and activate it or we all die! RUN!"

 

That sense of urgency is what we need.

While he runs, the boss would lay down heavy fire on him or his teammates to increase the risk involved.

 

Obviously that's a very basic example. But, it is an example.

 

One last thing before I get on with the concept. And I believe this is so important when it comes to boss fights.

The boss should control the pace of the fight, not the player

 

Let's begin! :D

 

(Googled 'Grineer Tank' for that image)

 

Name - The Grineer Destroyer

Type - Machine

Location - Unknown

 

I originally came up with this idea after fighting Ultima Weapon in FF XIV.

 

Please watch this video, HD fullscreen is better. It will give you an idea of what Ultima Weapon was like

The video is more to showcase attacks, and how players need to be moving to avoid them.

People who don't play FF XIV will probably find it to be extremely dull.

 

Direct link - 

 

A little backstory/lore

The Grineer Destroyer (for lack of a better name) is a massive Grineer war machine designed to be able to be deployed at a location and decimate it, leaving the area free for the Grineer to occupy.

 

The Grineer use this machine to expand their empire on newly discovered planets that are inhabited.

These other species have no right to be there in the eyes of the Grineer. They deploy in these discovered cities, destroy them with this massive war machine, and rebuild under Grineer control.

 

That fits in nicely with the Warframe lore. The Grineer are the ever expanding tyrants, while the Tenno are the only things stopping their expansion.

 

Basic Concept

Like I've said, this boss is aimed at endgame. 

Some extremely difficult content aimed at those players who have reached their peak and can currently just faceroll everything in the game.

 

This boss is huge. At least 10x the height of a Tenno. He isn't very mobile, but he has plenty of mechanics to keep players on their toes.

 

When I say endgame, I don't just mean a boss that can take the constant fire of 4 fully Modded Somas for 10 minutes, though he'd need to be spongy to an extent.

The difficulty with this boss comes with constant pressure and highly damaging attacks.

 

So, ideally, when fighting this boss, if you aren't on the ball and paying attention, you die. Simple as that.

This boss requires some actual intelligence to fight (unlike other bosses in the game)

 

He has plenty of varying attacks, each will require players to do something different.

Just running in circles will not work on this boss.

 

Advanced Concept

Ok, let's begin with the fun stuff.

 

The boss starts in a massive arena. (I think a forest tileset would be excellent for this)

When you get close, he powers up.

One thing, though. This boss has no mobs prior to the encounter.

So, it's not Spawn at A, kill stuff on the way to B, run to C.

You start the mission at the boss area, no trash to deal with.

 

The reason for a forest tileset is that trees can obscure the vision of the player, which means they will need to relocate. Which, again, prolongs the life of the boss.

However, trees can also be used for the players to shield themselves from particular attacks. Which opens up exciting new mechanics that will require players to pay attention to their surroundings

 

The boss has two phases.

Phase one is hard enough, he has a LOT of attacks, and applies constant pressure.

Phase two will augment his attacks and open up new ones.

 

The boss will have to be spongy to an extent. He just has to be.

With the current way guns work, you can't have a genuinely difficult boss without it.

 

But, his attacks will force the player to stop attacking and relocate so often, that he can be 'artificially' spongy, by making the players unable to attack/attack with great risk to themselves.

 

How close the players are depends on them.

If they're really far away, they will have an easier time avoiding fire, but accurate fire will be far more difficult with automatic weapons.

If they position themselves very close, avoiding fire will be much harder, but hitting enemies will be easier due to more forgiving accuracy.

 

Players will need to decide what they're doing.

Going full distance

Going fully close

Putting a sniper at the back (remember, you would need to run all the way there to revive)

Putting two at the back, two at the front

 

etc. etc.

 

Phase One Attacks

Turrets

These are the Destroyer's most basic attacks

 

The tank will have four turrets placed on the 'body' of it.

Heavily armoured Grineer will pop out of the bosses interior and man them

There are four kinds

 

Machine gun Turret

Very basic. The Grineer who mans this turret will unleash a hail of highly damaging bullets at his targeted player.

The best way to deal with this one is not to stand out in the open and try take him out. This machine gun will tear you to shreds.

 

One big thing though, while this one is active, it won't just endlessley fire.

The Grineer behind the turret will only be able to fire continuously for a maximum of 7 seconds, then he needs to stop for 4 due to overheating.

This ensures that the player under fire will not have to seek refuge until the Turret Grineer is taken out.

 

Coordinate with your team, whoever is targeted should hide behind a tree for cover while under fire, while another teammate takes this guy out.

Alternatively have the other 3 players focus on the other turrets, while you wait until the machine gun overheats

 

Sniper Turret

Very slow firing, but will deal massive damage to the player unlucky enough to be hit by it.

A laser sight will aim at the player who is being targeted. If you stay out in the open, no matter how fast you are moving, unless you take cover, this will hit you.

Deals damage somewhere around 100% of your shields and 35% of your HP, assuming you have full shields when it hits you.

 

Take cover while another teammate takes this guy out.

 

Targeting Turret

This turret deals no damage, but should be TOP priority.

The Grineer on this turret will pick a player and target him. (takes around 10 seconds)

If left unchecked, and the target is successful, he will relay information to the Grineer on the Railgun Turret.

 

Shoot this guy ASAP! The other players can hide from the machine gun and sniper while this guy is taken out.

 

Railgun Turret

This one synergises with the Targeting Turret.

If a player is successfully target, the railgun Grineer will fire this massive turret.

Pierces through all terrain, trees and cover, and will instantly kill the player.

 

That is why you need to kill the Targeting Turret Grineer asap.

Without him, this railgun cannot function.

 

________________________________________________

 

That's if for the turret mechanics.

Those take some serious team coordination to successfully manage, especially when the Destroyer is going to be dishing out other attacks at the same time.

 

One other thing, these Grineer aren't the same as their normal counterparts.

One headshot won't kill them instantly.

 

They aren't bullet sponges, but they aren't pushovers.

 

Missile Barrage

The Destroyed launches a barrage of 12 missiles directly into the sky.

Targeting indicators will appear on the ground (much like MMORPG AoE circles)

 

After a couple of seconds, these missiles will come down on these red circles.

If players are caught inside them, they will be dealt massive damage.

 

How to avoid this? Pay attention to the boss and your surroundings

 

If the boss launches a dozen rockets directly above him, then you know that this attack is coming. keep on the move, while also paying attention to the turrets.

 

Centrifugal Blast

Distancing skill.

 

Getting close to the boss is a viable way to avoid some of his attacks. 

But, if you get too close, he will use Centrifugal Blast.

 

Extremely fast attack that sends out a shockwave from his location.

Knocks players back a fair distance, doesn't knock them down. He will use this as a way of distancing players from him. Cooldown of 10 seconds.

 

This is extremely dangerous if the turrets are still manned, as you will be left immobile for a couple of seconds. The machine gun will tear you to shreds if you are hit by this.

 

 

 

Stomp

Ok, thanks to Madotsuki for reminding me of this.

I'll leave the Centrifugal Blast skill as the knockback, but each of The Destroyer's legs has its own stomp skill.

Has a small AoE, but will knock players over.

 

Sound stunlocky? Not really.

Veeeery telegraphed, if you see him raise one of his legs, all you have to do is either run away, or move around his body.

He can only do one stomp at a time, so as long as you constantly move, you will be fine.

 

Dumbfire Rockets

Huge missile barrage not unlike the Grineer Hellion missiles.

 

Targets a player and launches a dozen missiles in their general location.

These will fly erratically, though, and aren't guaranteed a hit.

 

More of a pressure attack than anything. Forces a player to run, take cover and stop firing.

 

Deal moderate AoE damage, nothing too extreme, given the random nature of the targeting.

 

Blasting Zone

Much like Ultima Weapon's laser attack, for those that have fought him/watched that video.

 

The Destroyer aims a laser at the ground and sends it across the ground in a straight line, this creates a rectangular targeting indicator.

After 2 seconds, this will explode, dealing massive damage to anyone who hasn't moved out of the way.

 

Remember, this is a rectangular, as long as you don't follow the Prometheus way of running away from stuff, you should be fine.

If you're paying attention, you'll avoid this no problems.

 

The targeting indicator would be a little more subtle, but easily noticed if you're paying attention

 

Look for the green rectangular indicator on the left side of that image

 

EMP Blast

Used at a specific phase of this fight, maybe first used around 80% HP.

 

Nothing too crazy, The Destroyed sends out a massive EMP Blast which will deactivate Sentinels and disable your weapon for a short duration (30 seconds or so)

 

While the weapon is disabled, you have two options.

1. Switch to your other weapon. (Only the equipped one gets disabled)

2. Melee (unadvised, considering he has the Centrifugal Blast attack)

 

There will be an indicator on your weapon that will signify when it's available again.

Maybe some kind of electricity effect.

 

He will use this periodically throughout the fight.

Unavoidable.

 

Skewer

Quite similar to Radial Javelin to an extent.

 

The Destroyer will send several spikes flying outwards, these deal massive damage to players, and will stick into trees.

(There would be an indicator to say this skill is coming)

 

Players need to take cover or risk being impaled on nearby trees.

 

After they are set into nearby trees, however, they still pose a threat.

After 10 seconds, they will detonate. Destroying the tree they are planted in.

 

This is a vital mechanic.

When the tree is gone, you can no longer use that as cover. Meaning players will need to reassess their camping area.

Forces players to be on the move and find a new area to seek refuge behind.

 

There would need to be some kind of mechanic in place that prevents all trees from being destroyed, as that would make the boss fight impossible.

 

Dispel

What it sounds like.

This attack will instantly negate any buffs or sanctuaries you currently have. (such as Snowglobe)

 

The boss will use this attack whenever you use Invincibility, Snowglobe etc.

Prevents players from just using Snowglobe and spraying.

 

Shock Tower 

The Destroyer launches a pod into the air, after a couple of seconds, this will come crashing down near a player, dealing a small amount of AoE damage.

 

This pod will form itself into a Shock Tower.

If any players stand nearby, this tower will hit them with a bolt of electricity. This deals light damage, but more importantly, leaves them immobile for 5 seconds. Those 5 seconds can spell the death of that player, easily.

 

Blast Tower 

The Destroyer launches a pod into the air, after a couple of seconds, this will come crashing down near a player, dealing a small amount of AoE damage.

 

This pod will form itself into a Blast Tower

Rather than activating when players are nearby, this tower will simply send a fiery blast outwards periodically. 

This deals heavy damage to any player who are caught in the AoE, and will knock them down.

 

Frost Tower 

The Destroyer launches a pod into the air, after a couple of seconds, this will come crashing down near a player, dealing a small amount of AoE damage.

 

This pod will form itself into a Frost Tower

If players walk nearby this tower, it will hit them with an energy beam that will greatly slow their movement speed.

This makes it incredibly hard for them to avoid AoE should they be unlucky enough to be surrounded with a targeting indicator.

 

__________________________________________

 

These towers act as an area denial attack.

The Destroyed will purposely launch these right near a player, forcing them to stop attacking and get the hell out of the way.

 

These will take up a large chunk of the surrounding area, so killing these should take priority. You don't want to have to avoid an AoE, but be forced into standing right near a Shock Tower or Blast Tower.

 

These have a decent amount of HP so players should coordinate which one to attack, and focus fire on individual towers.

 

This is another one of those things that prolongs the life of the boss. You could divide fire between towers and the boss, but that wouldn't be optimal.

 

Phase Two Attacks

Ok, after a certain point in the boss fight, a cutscene will play.

This cutscene will show The Destroyer weakening.

In this phase, The Destroyer grounds itself, rerouting power from all movement systems to the offensive systems.

 

In the entirety of this phase, The Destroyer is immobile, but more powerful, and has access to more attacks.

 

This prompts phase 2 to begin. Which is significantly more difficult than phase one.

New attacks will open up, meaning new mechanics.

Old attacks will also be augmented, making them far more dangerous.

 

Old attacks

 

Turrets

These will function similarly to their Phase One counterparts.

The machine gun will machine gun

The sniper will sniper

The targeter will target

The railgun will railgun

 

No difference here.

Prioritise your targets, make sure to take out the targeter, and avoid fire at all costs.

 

Missile Barrage

Very similar to it's previous version, but more rockets will be fired, increasing the number of target indicators and movement required to avoid.

 

Centrifugal Blast

Same as before, only used if a player gets too close.

 

However, instead of dealing small damage, this will deal moderate damage.

 

Dumbfire Rockets 

Exactly the same as before, but with slightly higher AoE damage.

 

EMP Blast

Same effect as before, but disables your weapon for 45 seconds, not 30.

 

Skewer

Same as before, but with one important difference.

 

Detonation will be scattered.

 

Meaning, every spike won't destroy a tree after exactly 10 seconds.

There will be a random value chosen between 1 and 20. This value dictates the amount of seconds it will take before a spike detonates and destroys a tree.

 

Spikes will glow red 2 seconds before they detonate.

 

What does this mean?

More attention is required. 10 seconds of no detonation is more than enough time for a player to forget about the spikes.

 

Some might explode in 2 seconds, some might explode in 15. Either way, more attention is required by the player in this situation.

 

Dispel

What it sounds like.

This attack will instantly negate any buffs or sanctuaries you currently have.

 

The boss will use this attack whenever you use Invincibility, Snowglobe etc.

Prevents players from just using Snowglobe and spraying.

 

Alternate to Dispel

Energy Sap

 

Periodically throughout the fight (fairly often), a wave will be sent out that will steal a certain amount of your current power.

Maybe 25 or 50. Could even be a % of what you currently have.

 

The reason I have so many abilities that negate powers, is that power spam would completely trivialize this fight.

Capping out Power Efficiency would make is unbelievably easy to just spam powers such as Invisibility, Snowglobe or Blessing.

So, there needs to be some serious attacks that negate those effects, which is why I'm so partial to Dispel.

Giving players even a small chance to unleash their power spam would make this fight unbelievably easy.

 

Think about it. If you have max power efficiency, unless the boss had the ability to dispel powers, you could simply use Snowglobe to negate anything he can throw at you.

It's a tough thing to fix, and I'll think it over some more.

 

Towers

Each tower will have a larger AoE than before, however, instead of firing one tower, The Destroyer will always fire all 3 at the same time, each landing near a different player.

 

So, if the boss is telegraphing this attack, players should coordinate and stand near each other, this means the towers will all be around one area, rather than scattered.

But, this doesn't mean you can just ignore them.

 

In this phase, each active tower will give The Destroyer a new attack.

 

Shock Tower - Gives The Destroyer the ability to send out a wave of electricity, dealing light damage and stunning players for 3 seconds. The stun can be avoided by standing behind a tree.

 

Frost Tower - Gives The Destroyer the ability to target a single player and slam them with a highly damaging laser. This will apply a slow debuff to that player.

Avoidable by hiding behind a tree, however, if a player does avoid this behind a tree, that tree will be destroyed!

 

TOP PRIORITY. You need as much cover as possible.

 

Blast Tower - Gives The Destroyer the ability to send out a wave of fire. Deals moderate damage and applies a DoT.

 

So, you may be able to get all the towers in a single, confined location. But, taking them out takes priority.

You do not want the boss to have these 3 new attacks for long.

Destroying each tower will remove that attack form the bosses' arsenal.

 

New Attacks

 

Yes, phase 2 grants The Destroyer some new attacks, making the boss fight far more intense.

 

Decimate

A cannon on the front of The Destroyer begins to charge, this signifies that this attack is coming. In other words, get the hell out of the way NOW!

For this one, you need to take cover behind a rock, otherwise, goodbye.

 

This is a massive fire blast. I mean massive. Something that when it narrowly misses you, the player is left thinking "Holy S#&$, thank God I didn't get hit by that!"

 

This will be blocked by rocks only. So, in addition to trees, there will also be large rocks for you to take cover behind. (Must be crouched)

Any trees hit by this attack will be burned to a crisp. Rocks will be your only saviour here.

This also solves the problem of trees being destroyed. Even if all of they are burned/destroyed, there should always be at least 3 rocks still 'alive' in the map.

 

Picture time.

 

Energy Shield

The Destroyer summons a shield of energy in front of him. Covers about a 70 degree angle.

 

This protects him from all fire from that direction. Players will need to relocate to find a new area to fire from.

This shield lasts 1 full minute

 

Energy Siphon

Simple skill, The Destroyer sends out a wave that will sap all the player's energy reserves, meaning they cannot use powers until they get more Energy.

 

Dark Attractor 

The Destroyed launches an orb of energy at a targeted zone (marked with a purple indicator, so players know what is coming)

 

When this orb is launched, nearby players will be pulled towards it. (out of cover in other words)

When players see this coming, they should distance themselves IMMEDIATELY.

 

The absolute last thing you want in this boss fight is to be out in the open like a sitting duck.

 

Energy Bastion

Much like the Energy Shield, but rather than covering a 70 degree angle, this will cover a 180 degree angle. Forcing players to the other side of the arena to be able to open fire.

Another of those life prolonging skills, far better than just giving him a S#&$load of health and calling it difficulty.

 

This shield will last 2 minutes.

 

________________________________________

 

There we go, his new skills. Most of them are utility that are designed to mess with players positioning which opens up the chance for him to decimate them with other attacks.

 

One last thing that you've probably forgotten by now.

Remember, while all these mechanics are going on, the turrets are still being manned periodically.

 

He might pop his Energy Bastion, meaning you will need to relocate while taking out the Grineer on the turrets. Not an easy thing to do.

 

Ultimate Attack

Notice that big &#! cannon on the top of the cannon in that image? 

Yeah, that hasn't been used yet. That gets used at the very end.

 

This is the bosses ultimate. If not dealt with, it will instantly kill everyone on the squad.

 

The arena will have 4 towers, and each tower has a console inside it (these consoles have been inactive up until this point). Each tower is at opposite sides of the arena. One in the far north, one in the far south, one in the far east, and one in the far west.

 

Players will need to figure out which player is going where, and make haste. (The boss is only charging up at this point, you don't have to worry about any attacks)

 

Once players get to the console, each will need to use them and perform a difficult hacking minigame (like the hacking mastery test, but no Ciphers allowed)

Once hacked, each console now has an X prompt to "Ready targeting laser". 

Players will need to activate all 4 consoles around the same time

 

There would be a short window for latency (2 seconds tops), but each console will need to be activated around the same time. (Players will need to communicate a countdown).

 

Once all four consoles have been activated, a giant hailstorm of orbital strikes will rain down and finish off The Destroyer, ending the fight once and for all.

 

Remember, if you don't do this section quick enough, game over. The Destroyer will fire the cannon which will kill everyone.

 

Ending Notes

Couple little things.

 

How would revives work?

Ok, because this is an endgame boss, where dying will be plentiful, there are two ways for this to be thought out.

One

If you die, you can use revives to get back in the fight.

I don't really like this one at all.

 

For one, if you use 4 revives, that's you out of the fight with that Warframe until tomorrow, which is essentially a boss lockout.

Second, if your team doesn't revive you, I don't think you should be able to revive. This is an endgame boss, I don't think you should get up to 4 freebies at all.

 

Two

This is my preferred option.

Teammates can revive you as many times as they like, but if you die, you die. (Maybe 1 freebie tops)

 

Drastically increases the amount of teamwork required (especially in positioning)

 

Whew, there we go. That's one hell of a boss concept.

I had a blast writing this, and I would greatly appreciate any feedback and ideas.

 

Before you post feedback, though. Remember, this boss is purely for endgame players.

Those who have all high level mods, Warframes and weapons. Those who have a complete understanding of the game and are looking for a serious challenge.

 

Dying will be brutal and often. This boss is not a pushover. He should not be able to be tackled with ease the first time a squad fights him.

 

Plenty of MMORPGs have had extremely hard boss fights that even the best raid groups can take weeks to beat for the first time (Hell, FFXIV 1.0 only had like 80 people beat Ifrit Extreme)

 

That's what I want for this boss. No, not something that will take weeks and weeks to kill (although, that would be amazing), but something that can't just be taken out in 30 seconds and farmed endlessley.

This is a long boss fight, upwards of at least 10-15 minutes.

 

Wow, almost 4k words of pure endgame boss awesomeness.

 

*Edit*

Oh, also, one other thing to keep in mind.

 

You probably noticed that pretty much every single attack by the boss is avoidable.

This negates the issue of artificial difficulty.

 

If you are hit by these attacks, you will be dealt massive damage. But, as long as you're paying attention, you can avoid pretty much all of them with minimal damage taken.

That is the main point of this fight. It rewards skill and situational awareness.

Standing still spraying bullets will get you killed.

Movement and careful coordination will not.

 

Also, each attack has its own personal target indicator (where applicable)

What does this mean?

Well, it negates any possible confusion.

 

If Dark Attractor, Missile Barrage, and any other skills that use indicators are all red, then you won't know what attack is coming. It'd be far too confusing.

 

So, each attack would have its own colour, meaning for you to fully understand the fight, you will need to memorize which attack is coming

Missile Barrage - Red circles

Dark Attractor - Purple circle

Blasting Zone - Dark green

Shock Tower - Dark blue

Frost Tower - Light blue

Blast Tower - Bright orange

 

Something like that. Just adds another layer of skill to it.

In the end, it does boil down to "Get out of the pretty colours", but knowing exactly what attack is coming should play an important role in the fight, especially when it comes to cover mechanics.

 

*Edit 2*

Warframe debuffs will NOT work on this guy.

That's one thing that makes Lephantis so trivial, the fact that you can M. Prime and Rhino Stomp him, then just faceroll him.

 

*Edit 3*
Oh, and this guy should have his own intense soundtrack. Something to increase the awesomeness of the fight tenfold (It works for Ultima Weapon, that's for sure)

Here's the Ultima Weapon soundtrack without any background noise. Wouldn't work in Warframe, but that song made the Ultima Weapon fight.

Direct link - 

Edited January 9, 2014 by Nugget_

[D.Mugetsu]

Nice, really like this concept. Would like to see something like this ingame!

[Spectram]

This is a great idea. I wish warframe would expand the game mechanics especially bosses forcing us to think and coordinate ourselves to prioritizing which is a great danger to us players. I don't like to face just a boss that just has special abilities. I rather have DE to give us a view on how warframes can compete against war machines of the grineer or perhaps an imitation of a warframe from different factions. Who knows that the bosses are made to be smarter than us capable of fighting from different advantages e.g. higher ground , traps perhaps switching to another area. This is the kind of change warframe needs the most and perhaps it could even be on par against other games. It will take time but I'm positive it will be worth it.

[Un1337ninj4]

A fellow ARR player :D I played the Beta, plan to get it again soon (virus killed me)

[CaptainPeanut]

We could really use some more intense boss fights that actually require skill and planning. This sounds like a good one.

[Madotsuki]

Alright, this is a long read, i'm going to write feedback as I go along. For a long thread comes long feedback, so be prepared to read >:D

First off, I would think a boss like this would probably work best on something like a Volcanic planet (forest should go to Sedna, since Kela has the potential to follow an Amazon theme). Instead of trees, you get giant rock and obsidian structures. This will also enhance some of the Destroyer's attacks, as explosions that hit the ground will temporarily destroy the rock surface, revealing fiery lava pools that act as temporary hazards for players to watch out for.

Phase 1:

Machine Gun Turret: Due to the hitscan nature of Grineer guns, this turret needs to have a limited turning speed (at least while shooting), allowing players to evade through mobility. Remember, one of Warframe's unique points is its mobility-based combat, this is NOT a cover-based shooter. Cover-enforcing attacks need to be kept to a minimum. I would expect the gun to have about Gorgon accuracy. Players can keep at range to reduce damage, but give the turret an easier time to follow them, or stay closer to help outrun it, but risk heavy damage if caught up.

Sniper Turret: Again with the damn cover-enforcing. Instead of having it as a sniper turret, make it a ROCKET cannon. It locks onto one player and LEADS the target. A split second before firing, the cannon has to lock in place (cannot turn) and fire at the targeted spot (rocket is 2.5x the speed of Ogris shots). Since it's a rocket, it will have an explosive radius upon impacting the ground (it's reasonably small though). When the cannon locks, it releases a loud "clank" sound, giving players a brief notification so they get the chance to dodge. In turn, the laser sight is removed, so you'll have to actually keep an eye on the tank to know if that cannon is pointing at you. Also, the rockets can destroy rock/obsidian structures that players use as cover. To prevent all cover from being destroyed, new structures will erupt from the ground at a different location due to volcanic activity to replace destroyed ones after a delay.

Targeting+Railgun turrets: Bad idea, the targeting turret becomes a DPS check to see if you can take it down fast enough, and insta-gibbing needs to be VERY carefully implemented to avoid player frustration. Remove them, the Rocket Cannon is good enough as a long range weapon.

Missile Barrage: A good attack. The combination with the lava pool hazards generated makes it a formidable yet fair attack.

Centrifugal Blast: Bad idea, considering it's essentially an unavoidable stun if players get close. Also renders melee an impossibility, which is a bad design choice for a game where melee is supposed to play a significant role in combat. Instead, simply have its legs perform stomps if a player is too close, similar to how Jackal's stomp works but the wind up is faster and the shockwave is MUCH MUCH shorter range. UNLIKE the Jackal, each leg can stomp independently, with up to two legs being able to stomp at once. Of course, while stomping, the Destroyer itself cannot move, not like it needs to move much as it's basically a mobile fortress.

Dumbfire Rockets: Seems a tad overkill when combined with all the other attacks. If the rocket spray had a limited aiming area restricted to a 90 degree arc in front of the Destroyer, that seems fair though. Also this attack's explosion won't be strong enough to break the ground.

Blasting Zone: Seems fair enough.

EMP Blast: NOPE. Having an unavoidable attack that also outright DESTROYS player Sentinels is just bad design. Remove this. Plus, having EMP technology doesn't fit the Grineer, it fits the Corpus.

Deadly Spike: First off that's a horrible name. Secondly, the Rocket Cannon can take its role. Remove it.

Dispel: NOPE. This is like the Stalker's auto-dispel all over again. It would be better to have the Destroyer react to certain "high threat" warframe powers with its own attacks. For example, it will take Snowglobes as a priority target for its Rocket Cannon, and one shot from that will shatter the Globe (without harming the players inside). Be more creative dammit.

Towers: Okay what the hell were you thinking. Practically all of these Towers are for stunlocking players, and they're also just immense overkill when combined with the other attacks. Remove them.

To make up for the Towers which you probably implemented as support units for the Destroyer, Grineer troops will regularly charge into the fray from outside the arena as back-up, and also to replace slain turret pilots. The Destroyer can hold a small amount of Grineers within as back-up pilots, and members of the troops coming in from surroundings will attempt to climb on board if there are vacancies inside. Try to kill them before they reach the Destroyer to delay re-manning of turrets.

I'll add Phase 2 feedback in the next comment. Also i am never posting from Chrome on these forums again, goddamn formatting errors -_-

Edited January 6, 2014 by Madotsuki

[Madotsuki]

Okay, Phase 2:

 

Cutscene: Instead of this weird "oh my god i'm so damaged, better POWER UP again because I actually had so much reserved" thing, it would be more fitting to have the Destroyer go into a form of Fortress mode, disabling general mobility and routing power to its offensive systems. During the cutscene, it will "root" its legs into the ground, sucking up magma from its legs both as an energy source and for new offensive capabilities. From this point on the Destroyer itself cannot move from its rooted spot, becoming a massive stationary battle station.

 

Centrifugal Blast/Stomp: Instead of stomping with its legs (since they're rooted), it instead applies pressure to the ground near its leg, causing a stream of lava to rupture from the ground as a close quarters attack to replace Stomping. MUCH higher damage that's fire-oriented. There will be a different tell animation with about the same timespan.

 

Dumbfire Rockets: Can now destroy the ground and create temporary lava hazards like the other explosive attacks.

 

Decimate: Seems like a re-hash of Ruk's Hellstorm attack. Unnecessary, and also highly unfair to frames with slower movement speed. I say Destroyer shouldn't get this attack, just leave it with Ruk (who himself needs a minor overhaul anyway).

 

Energy Shield/Bastion: Energy abilities don't fit the Grineer. Instead, the Destroyer should apply pressure to the ground, causing a wall of volcanic rock to erupt on one side. The walls can be on its front, back or two sides, so there are 4 possible wall locations, based on where players are when the ability triggers. Up to two walls can be maintained at once, and the Destroyer will raise another wall almost immediately after one has collapsed over time. Basically, dynamic cover for the Destroyer, forcing players to re-locate. The walls don't quite reach the turrets on top of the Destroyer though, meaning turrets can shoot through and be shot through a walled side, while the Destroyer can not be damaged but also cannot attack through a walled side (excluding some attacks like Missile Barrage).

 

Energy Siphon: Unnecessary and unfitting, remove it.

 

Dark Attractor: Can probably be used to suck players to an unwalled side to attack them. The "black hole" should have a small delay after deploying before activating, giving players time to run. Similar to Vauban Vortex, there is a limited range to the attack, and while within range, the closer you are to the Attractor, the harder you get pulled, so if you're on the outskirts, you can still sprint away. The lifetime of the Attractor should not exceed 5 seconds after activation.

 

Ultimate Attack: This is infinitely unfair, particularly due to the ever present possibility of lag (also communication mechanics are pretty horrendous in Warframe anyway). Imagine if you managed to fight the boss THIS far, and then out of nowhere it insta-gib-game-overs you before you even know what to do, or because of ping delay, or because of one single griefer. Yeah, NOT going to be a welcome mechanic.

 

You want a final finisher? Have the Destroyer become destablized from all the damage when its hp hits zero. However, instead of just flopping like the Corpus robots, the Grineers inside attempt to overload the Destroyer's own reactor, creating an explosion that will wipe out the area to take you out with them. Akin to Sabotage missions, you have to run your &#! to extraction quickly, while lava spouts start erupting from random locations of the arena (akin to Ruk's Volcanic Pillars attack, but on a much larger scale). Once a player reaches extraction, everyone is extracted by the escape craft and flies off just as the Destroyer detonates. There you go, tension and a cool cinematic without unfairly $&*^ing over players.

 

In conclusion, this is a pretty well thought-out boss concept that certainly exceeds all the existing "boss" fights by a large margin, but many of the boss' abilities seem to be thrown in for the sake of overkill without considering fairness to general players. The sheer amount of attacks originally planned here by the OP would make for a TON of unnecessary work for the devs, particularly since some of these attacks can be easily combined into a single one (for example the Rocket Cannon is enough to replace the Sniper, Railgun+Detector AND the deadly spike thing) for simplicity.

 

Very good food for thought though, and it's clear the OP has put a lot of effort into creating this concept (as he does with many of his other threads). It's a nice refreshing read from all the generic Warframe concepts or all the dumb "rogue Tenno" boss concepts that make up 90% of the Fan concepts section. Keep it up!

Edited January 6, 2014 by Madotsuki

[Luminati07]

Ok, thanks for the feedback. I'll reply point by point.

 

Machine Gun Turret: Due to the hitscan nature of Grineer guns, this turret needs to have a limited turning speed (at least while shooting), allowing players to evade through mobility. Remember, one of Warframe's unique points is its mobility-based combat, this is NOT a cover-based shooter. Cover-enforcing attacks need to be kept to a minimum. I would expect the gun to have about Gorgon accuracy. Players can keep at range to reduce damage, but give the turret an easier time to follow them, or stay closer to help outrun it, but risk heavy damage if caught up.

 

Fair points. I hadn't fully considered the hitscan nature of hitscan weapons. In my head this would be a projectile based weapon. Just because most Grineer weapons are hitscan doesn't mean this one needs to be as well. Yeah, something like Gorgon accuracy, or even worse. It's a full on spraying weapon

Sniper Turret: Again with the damn cover-enforcing. Instead of having it as a sniper turret, make it a ROCKET cannon. It locks onto one player and LEADS the target. A split second before firing, the cannon has to lock in place (cannot turn) and fire at the targeted spot (rocket is 2.5x the speed of Ogris shots). Since it's a rocket, it will have an explosive radius upon impacting the ground (it's reasonably small though). When the cannon locks, it releases a loud "clank" sound, giving players a brief notification so they get the chance to dodge. In turn, the laser sight is removed, so you'll have to actually keep an eye on the tank to know if that cannon is pointing at you. Also, the rockets can destroy rock/obsidian structures that players use as cover. To prevent all cover from being destroyed, new structures will erupt from the ground at a different location due to volcanic activity to replace destroyed ones after a delay.

 

This one isn't fully cover enforcing. when you see the laser sight, you don't have to seek refuge for 10 seconds. Let's say it takes 8 seconds from targeting to the shot. You can freely run around and try take out the sniper, and then take cover at the last second. Just takes a little clever timing

 

I do like the idea of the rocket cannon, though

Targeting+Railgun turrets: Bad idea, the targeting turret becomes a DPS check to see if you can take it down fast enough, and insta-gibbing needs to be VERY carefully implemented to avoid player frustration. Remove them, the Rocket Cannon is good enough as a long range weapon.

 

It's not a DPS check. You don't need to unload on the guy for 10 seconds to take him out. Maybe 2 or 3 at the very most. You're right, insta-gibbing does need to be implemented carefully. But, when you need to simply tell your team to attack the targeting Grineer, it's not so hard.

 

I think I just didn't make this part clear enough. The idea isn't to make this a DPS check at all. You're taking on towers, rockets, machine guns and all sorts of stuff, so this guy shouldn't be designed as a bullet sponge. Plus, remember, this is a pure endgame boss, in Warframe, a DPS check wouldn't really come into play unless the enemy had 50 billion HP

Missile Barrage: A good attack. The combination with the lava pool hazards generated makes it a formidable yet fair attack.

Centrifugal Blast: Bad idea, considering it's essentially an unavoidable stun if players get close. Also renders melee an impossibility, which is a bad design choice for a game where melee is supposed to play a significant role in combat. Instead, simply have its legs perform stomps if a player is too close, similar to how Jackal's stomp works but the wind up is faster and the shockwave is MUCH MUCH shorter range. UNLIKE the Jackal, each leg can stomp independently, with up to two legs being able to stomp at once. Of course, while stomping, the Destroyer itself cannot move, not like it needs to move much as it's basically a mobile fortress.

 

Eh, good points with that. I'll change this one around a bit. However, melee is so weak at the moment, any kind of melee attacks in this boss fight would be trivial.

Dumbfire Rockets: Seems a tad overkill when combined with all the other attacks. If the rocket spray had a limited aiming area restricted to a 90 degree arc in front of the Destroyer, that seems fair though. Also this attack's explosion won't be strong enough to break the ground.

Like I said, this is more of a pressure attack, more designed at making the players panic. Doesn't do tonnes of damage unless you stand still while rockets hit you in the face

Blasting Zone: Seems fair enough.

EMP Blast: NOPE. Having an unavoidable attack that also outright DESTROYS player Sentinels is just bad design. Remove this. Plus, having EMP technology doesn't fit the Grineer, it fits the Corpus.

Sentinels would be useless in this fight anyway. But, I'll tweak it. Who's to say that the Grineer aren't stealing tech. Could be Orokin

Deadly Spike: First off that's a horrible name. Secondly, the Rocket Cannon can take its role. Remove it.

Yeah, I agree. It's an awful name :P. Think of this attack as a minelayer. But the mines are "spears", not mines. They stick into surfaces and detonate after a set time. They're fairly different to the Rocket Cannon

Dispel: NOPE. This is like the Stalker's auto-dispel all over again. It would be better to have the Destroyer react to certain "high threat" warframe powers with its own attacks. For example, it will take Snowglobes as a priority target for its Rocket Cannon, and one shot from that will shatter the Globe (without harming the players inside). Be more creative dammit.

A fair point, having the boss priorities threats would make more sense. However, considering how unbelievably easy it is to just spam Snowglobes, how would this work?

 

Think about it this way. Someone with max power efficiency, with 4 Energy Siphons equipped. Frost creates 15 snowglobes. This would essentially give players free reign to attack the boss while hiding in one of the globes until the boss prioritises each Snowglobe. Unless it had another attack that destroys every rocket at once, I'll leave Dispel as it is

 

Let me think it over and I'll change it soon

Towers: Okay what the hell were you thinking. Practically all of these Towers are for stunlocking players, and they're also just immense overkill when combined with the other attacks. Remove them.

You're overestimating the power of these towers. They will be launched near a player, but they won't instantly stun them. Nor are they able to stunlock you (I'll need to clear that up). You have time to get out of the way, and the only way you are going to get stunned. slowed or damaged is if you aren't paying attention and you run into the area.

 

That's the main thing about this boss fight, situational awareness. All you have to do is be aware that a tower is nearby, and coordinate with your team to take it out. Simple

To make up for the Towers which you probably implemented as support units for the Destroyer, Grineer troops will regularly charge into the fray from outside the arena as back-up, and also to replace slain turret pilots. The Destroyer can hold a small amount of Grineers within as back-up pilots, and members of the troops coming in from surroundings will attempt to climb on board if there are vacancies inside. Try to kill them before they reach the Destroyer to delay re-manning of turrets.

 

Eh, I purposefully left out having additional units spawn in to attack you/help The Destroyer. I wanted full attention to be on him, and not some trash enemies wandering into the fray. I do like the idea of troops spawning in with the sole idea of replacing the gunners on the turrets

 

Looking forward to section 2.

God damn it, you posted just as I posted :P

Time to work on your second one

Edited January 6, 2014 by Nugget_

[Luminati07]

Okay, Phase 2:

 

 

Cutscene: Instead of this weird "oh my god i'm so damaged, better POWER UP again because I actually had so much reserved" thing, it would be more fitting to have the Destroyer go into a form of Fortress mode, disabling general mobility and routing power to its offensive systems. During the cutscene, it will "root" its legs into the ground, sucking up magma from its legs both as an energy source and for new offensive capabilities. From this point on the Destroyer itself cannot move from its rooted spot, becoming a massive stationary battle station.

 

Far better than my idea. Rerouting power from the movement systems to the offense systems makes a lot of sense

 

Decimate: Seems like a re-hash of Ruk's Hellstorm attack. Unnecessary, and also highly unfair to frames with slower movement speed. I say Destroyer shouldn't get this attack, just leave it with Ruk (who himself needs a minor overhaul anyway).

 

I only fought Ruk once since the overhaul, so I can't actually remember what you're talking about :/

 

Energy Shield/Bastion: Energy abilities don't fit the Grineer. Instead, the Destroyer should apply pressure to the ground, causing a wall of volcanic rock to erupt on one side. The walls can be on its front, back or two sides, so there are 4 possible wall locations, based on where players are when the ability triggers. Up to two walls can be maintained at once, and the Destroyer will raise another wall almost immediately after one has collapsed over time. Basically, dynamic cover for the Destroyer, forcing players to re-locate. The walls don't quite reach the turrets on top of the Destroyer though, meaning turrets can shoot through and be shot through a walled side, while the Destroyer can not be damaged but also cannot attack through a walled side (excluding some attacks like Missile Barrage).

 

True, energy shields don't really fit the Grineer. I'll think this one over a bit more to fit with Grineer tech. I haven't really touched on your volcanic idea yet, I'll have to think that over more

 

Energy Siphon: Unnecessary and unfitting, remove it.

Not unnecessary at all. Considering how easy it is for players to gather energy with max efficiency and just endlessley spam powers, this is used as a counter to that. Especially to any Trinitys who may be spamming blessing

 

Dark Attractor: Can probably be used to suck players to an unwalled side to attack them. The "black hole" should have a small delay after deploying before activating, giving players time to run. Similar to Vauban Vortex, there is a limited range to the attack, and while within range, the closer you are to the Attractor, the harder you get pulled, so if you're on the outskirts, you can still sprint away. The lifetime of the Attractor should not exceed 5 seconds after activation.

 

The delay that gives players the time to react is during charge up. It would be very telegraphed, so if players haven't noticed and gotten out of the way before then, then they get sucked in. Your last point is correct, the closer you are, the harder you are pulled in. If you're on the very edges you can still get away

 

Ultimate Attack: This is infinitely unfair, particularly due to the ever present possibility of lag (also communication mechanics are pretty horrendous in Warframe anyway). Imagine if you managed to fight the boss THIS far, and then out of nowhere it insta-gib-game-overs you before you even know what to do, or because of ping delay, or because of one single griefer. Yeah, NOT going to be a welcome mechanic.

 

You have to keep in mind, this boss is aimed at those players who are at the very end of what Warframe has to offer. Those who constantly ask for teamwork and endgame. Much like an MMORPG, this would be designed for groups, PUGs are always going to have a lot of trouble.

 

Yeah, you're right, communication in Warframe is pretty bad. But, this doesn't require a lot. It just requires you to know what to do. "NUGGET, YOU TAKE EAST!" or "I'VE GOT THE EAST PANEL!".

 

The idea isn't to make it so perfectly sync dependant that one player with 500 ping will ruin the game for everyone. You need to just use the consoles around the same time. You know, a couple of seconds give or take

 

On the comment of making it this far, then getting insta-gibbed, that's a part of it. The Lotus would give you an indication of what to do. "Tenno, The Destroyer is getting ready to end this fight. Each of you must get to a console on the outskirts of the area, fast. Once you are there, activate them all at the same time. GO!"

She would tell you this before he starts charging up. Unless your whole squad is seriously just screwing around, you will easily have sufficient time to make it to the consoles and end the fight

 

You want a final finisher? Have the Destroyer become destablized from all the damage when its hp hits zero. However, instead of just flopping like the Corpus robots, the Grineers inside attempt to overload the Destroyer's own reactor, creating an explosion that will wipe out the area to take you out with them. Akin to Sabotage missions, you have to run your &#! to extraction quickly, while lava spouts start erupting from random locations of the arena (akin to Ruk's Volcanic Pillars attack, but on a much larger scale). Once a player reaches extraction, everyone is extracted by the escape craft and flies off just as the Destroyer detonates. There you go, tension and a cool cinematic without unfairly $&*^ing over players.

 

That said, however. I do like the idea of a tense extraction

Seriously, thanks for the feedback. Exactly what I need.

 

Given me a lot of stuff to think about

Edited January 6, 2014 by Nugget_

[Bennyworld]

The co-ordination bit is really important - working together and as one will be really important to make the harder levels more fun - this is a co-op game, at its core, after all.

[Madotsuki]

Replying to your feedback on my feedback:

 

Deadly Spike: The thing is, while the spike supposedly defers from the cannon in that it has a "delayed" explosion as well which means players need to keep situational awareness and stay away from the spike, the addition of temporary lava traps caused by explosions due to the change from a forest to a volcanic environment makes up for that, as the rocket cannon leaves behind these environmental hazards with each blast. Considering that the typical player will simply choose to stay away from the spikes instead of waiting for that split second before it detonates to dodge, a lava trap is good enough.

 

Dispel/Energy Siphon: You make a fair point, but this has more to do with how spammable certain abilities are, a fundamental flaw in the game design that you are now compensating for in designing your boss. Also I did not quite take the Energy Siphon Aura into account when considering the Destroyer's version, so I thought that energy would be relatively scarce during the fight anyway. I've always said that giving certain abilities a cooldown timer (such as ults or defensive abilities) in addition to the energy cost would go miles towards frame balancing, but that's for a different topic.

 

Towers: I still think having additional goons spawn in would be more fitting as back-up than having the Destroyer deploy towers. Afterall, the Grineers are supposed to have strength in numbers, relying on human units over technology, so having infantry to assist the Destroyer would make more sense. And to be honest, another reason I oppose the towers is due to the Shock and Ice ones. This is more a personal philosophy, but I think certain elements should be restricted to certain factions, give them more of a consistent theme. For example, fire and blast would be fitting of the Grineer, while Shock, Ice, Magnetic etc. would be fitting of the Corpus. Plus, when you think about it, frequent goons that spawn in from the surroundings at random would actually require more situational awareness than single towers that you can clearly see coming, gang up on and destroy quickly.

 

Decimate: There's this attack that Ruk has starting from Phase 2, where he slams his cannon into the ground and envelopes himself in an expanding dome of fire. Huge range, heavy damage and knocks back. However due to the choice of arena the move is actually pretty cheap.

 

Dark Attractor: The reason I suggest having a delay AFTER firing instead of having the cannon charge up as the tell is because i'm under the assumption that the Attractor shot can still aim while charging. Having the shot activate after being deployed allows players to see the location of the Attractor, and run away accordingly.

 

Ultimate: I see your point on the Destroyer being supposedly this "raid boss" that's not going to go well with pubbing, but I still think requiring this level of coordination for an event that could wipe all the effort put into fighting the boss instantly is a little beyond Warframe's level. You did say the panels have to be activated in about the same time, which may even need voice-chat level of communication to guarantee it working right. I think the rest of the fight already emphasizes teamwork pretty well, no need to put a communication hurdle at the end.

[Luminati07]

Replying to your feedback on my feedback:

 

Deadly Spike: The thing is, while the spike supposedly defers from the cannon in that it has a "delayed" explosion as well which means players need to keep situational awareness and stay away from the spike, the addition of temporary lava traps caused by explosions due to the change from a forest to a volcanic environment makes up for that, as the rocket cannon leaves behind these environmental hazards with each blast. Considering that the typical player will simply choose to stay away from the spikes instead of waiting for that split second before it detonates to dodge, a lava trap is good enough.

 

Fair points, definitely. I have to say, fighting some kind of extremely difficult boss in a volcanic setting would be absolutely amazing. The only downside I can see is that forests generally are more pleasing to the eyes. But, yeah, a volcanic tileset would be incredible

 

Dispel/Energy Siphon: You make a fair point, but this has more to do with how spammable certain abilities are, a fundamental flaw in the game design that you are now compensating for in designing your boss. Also I did not quite take the Energy Siphon Aura into account when considering the Destroyer's version, so I thought that energy would be relatively scarce during the fight anyway. I've always said that giving certain abilities a cooldown timer (such as ults or defensive abilities) in addition to the energy cost would go miles towards frame balancing, but that's for a different topic.

 

Yeah, that's what I was taking into account with the concept. Players equipping Energy Siphon and just spamming abilities, which they are bound to do. In an ideal world, this wouldn't be a problem. But, I don't see it changing anytime soon.

 

Towers: I still think having additional goons spawn in would be more fitting as back-up than having the Destroyer deploy towers. Afterall, the Grineers are supposed to have strength in numbers, relying on human units over technology, so having infantry to assist the Destroyer would make more sense. And to be honest, another reason I oppose the towers is due to the Shock and Ice ones. This is more a personal philosophy, but I think certain elements should be restricted to certain factions, give them more of a consistent theme. For example, fire and blast would be fitting of the Grineer, while Shock, Ice, Magnetic etc. would be fitting of the Corpus. Plus, when you think about it, frequent goons that spawn in from the surroundings at random would actually require more situational awareness than single towers that you can clearly see coming, gang up on and destroy quickly.

 

Again, good points. I'll think the towers over and refine them a bit more. Like it's a personal philosophy for you, my philosophy here is against having some infantry spawning to help out. Mainly because they tend to irritate you more than anything, especially when they are high level

 

Decimate: There's this attack that Ruk has starting from Phase 2, where he slams his cannon into the ground and envelopes himself in an expanding dome of fire. Huge range, heavy damage and knocks back. However due to the choice of arena the move is actually pretty cheap.

 

Dark Attractor: The reason I suggest having a delay AFTER firing instead of having the cannon charge up as the tell is because i'm under the assumption that the Attractor shot can still aim while charging. Having the shot activate after being deployed allows players to see the location of the Attractor, and run away accordingly.

 

When Dark Atrractor begins charging, a purple indicator will appear on the ground (showing what attack is coming, and where). It shows the location and size of the AoE. So, assuming you're not just screwing around, you should be able to avoid it quite easily

 

Ultimate: I see your point on the Destroyer being supposedly this "raid boss" that's not going to go well with pubbing, but I still think requiring this level of coordination for an event that could wipe all the effort put into fighting the boss instantly is a little beyond Warframe's level. You did say the panels have to be activated in about the same time, which may even need voice-chat level of communication to guarantee it working right. I think the rest of the fight already emphasizes teamwork pretty well, no need to put a communication hurdle at the end.

 

Yeah, I do agree here. But, I am aiming this concept at those at the upper echelon of the playerbase. A simple 3, 2, 1, GO countdown would honestly be enough for this, as long as you didn't mess around and waste the countdown timer.

 

So, players 1, 2, 3 and 4 would all say "Ready", then one other player would simply say "3, 2, 1, GO NOW!". Bam, mission complete.

 

You're making a 100% fair point though. I guess I'm just used to having my teeth kicked in at the end of some boss fights in MMORPGs, which I actually enjoy, believe it or not.

There's a DPS check at the end of the Ultima Weapon fight. If you don't take off the last 5% of his HP, instant wipe.

Edited January 6, 2014 by Nugget_

[DeadScream]

A thought on the dispell : make it a special missile or combine it with a flashbang-like grenade. It would not just prevent you from using your skills but would grant the boss the possibility to negate them when he needs to : 
For example you could cast a snow globe and see it disappear ten seconds after, with a visual effect and the feeling that the boss is powerful enough to destroy it. Not simply magically remove it "just because it's cheating".

 

Love your concept though. Would be awesomely awesome.

[Madotsuki]

On the Towers vs Infantry thing, I do agree that infantry is annoying (I generally despise having to fight bosses/enemies that summon large amounts of goons to help), but it does follow the Grineer philosophy and design better, and just because i personally hate fighting them doesn't mean it's not a fair design choice (long as the number of enemies are reasonable). What i really had in mind was having about 6-7 enemies come in over the span of each 30 seconds, with basic and advanced units like Lancers and Ballistas, and starting from phase 2 an occasional elite as well, like a heavy. About a maximum of 15 goons on the field at a time. Considering it's an endgame boss, the enemies would also be a high level, so despite small numbers they still pose a threat.

If that's how the Dark Attractor works i have no problems with it.

And yes, traditional games, especially RPGs, do tend to have some difficult gimmick somewhere along the line. And while it may have nostalgic value for some such as yourself, that doesn't mean they were completely fair design choices. It's like that Fire Armadillo boss in Ninja Gaiden that suddenly explodes in the end and kills you if you don't block it. It's more a test on whether the players knew what would happen beforehand and had time to plan and prepare instead of an actual skill test, which i don't really appreciate.

Man, reading and discussing this boss concept with you almost motivates me to write boss concepts again. Unfortunately so far no one ever reads (or at least replies to) my concept posts and they just get buried and lost within a day or so, which is pretty discouraging considering i spend hours writing them.

[bejuizb]

Fantastic concept Nugget. I would definitely play this boss. But just to make it clear, if we're making rewards drop from this guy....what could they be and how could we reward them without resorting to an RNG mechanic?

[Luminati07]

Fantastic concept Nugget. I would definitely play this boss. But just to make it clear, if we're making rewards drop from this guy....what could they be and how could we reward them without resorting to an RNG mechanic?

Not sure what the actual rewards would be.

 

A new weapon, a new Warframe, some kind of skin/badge to show "I beat this boss".

But, no matter what it is, if you beat this guy, you get the blueprint. No questions asked. No RNG nonsense.

 

To me, this is the kind of boss that people would actually go back and fight because it's genuinely fun and difficult. Unlike Lephantis who everyone ignores after getting Nekros.

 

I'm actually working on another boss concept atm, but a Corpus version of this one (another endgame boss). Then I'll probably do an Infested one.

Edited January 6, 2014 by Nugget_

[meIody-]

What about a Corrupted boss SOMEWHAT like this, kind of like you're hunting down the tower's neural controlly thing.

[Luminati07]

What about a Corrupted boss SOMEWHAT like this, kind of like you're hunting down the tower's neural controlly thing.

Hmm, could work well. 

I'll probably end up writing a concept for all the factions. Grineer, Corpus, Infested and Corrupted.

 

A thought on the dispell : make it a special missile or combine it with a flashbang-like grenade. It would not just prevent you from using your skills but would grant the boss the possibility to negate them when he needs to : 

For example you could cast a snow globe and see it disappear ten seconds after, with a visual effect and the feeling that the boss is powerful enough to destroy it. Not simply magically remove it "just because it's cheating".

 

Love your concept though. Would be awesomely awesome.

Thankyou ^^

 

In regards to dispel, I'm thinking of some kind of ability that prevents you from using powers, rather than instantly removing them.

However, that doesn't fix the issue of people stacking Siphon and power efficiency and just spamming Snowglobe/Blessing/Overload/Whatever else.

[MercenaryLord]

As a Loki player, anything with Dispel makes me grumpy.

 

Cool idea, but that Dispel.

 

that dispel adskl%&^j;lj;lk

[Anatasia]

I love your concept a lot but just a few things I thought I point out.

 

First, I do believe the amount of attack sent to the players would be slightly too much to handle. I get your concept of getting the players to constantly move about instead of just standing still and fire but to leave the cover to dodge a dark attractor while being targeted by the sniper would end up pretty badly. (Maybe I misunderstood the concept slightly so do feel free to point out any mistakes)

 

Second would be dispel. Dispel seems slightly too... Well that spell alone can render certain Warframes useless, one of which being Trinity since the only spell that will work is Blessing and without the invulnerability mechanic that is. I understand certain Warframe abilities will make the fight a whole lot easier and ruins the whole point of this boss but well, each Warframe's concept is different so being able to use your powers and coordinate with your team-mates should be implemented in my opinion.

 

That being said, it is a really awesome idea there. Good job :)

[Luminati07]

As a Loki player, anything with Dispel makes me grumpy.

 

Cool idea, but that Dispel.

 

that dispel adskl%&^j;lj;lk

Trust me, I'm not a big fan of Dispel either.

But, with the current way powers work, any boss can be completely trivialized with power spam.

 

I'm still thinking of a good way to get rid of Dispel, but still sort out the problem, but I haven't thought of a solution yet.

 

I love your concept a lot but just a few things I thought I point out.

 

First, I do believe the amount of attack sent to the players would be slightly too much to handle. I get your concept of getting the players to constantly move about instead of just standing still and fire but to leave the cover to dodge a dark attractor while being targeted by the sniper would end up pretty badly. (Maybe I misunderstood the concept slightly so do feel free to point out any mistakes)

 

Second would be dispel. Dispel seems slightly too... Well that spell alone can render certain Warframes useless, one of which being Trinity since the only spell that will work is Blessing and without the invulnerability mechanic that is. I understand certain Warframe abilities will make the fight a whole lot easier and ruins the whole point of this boss but well, each Warframe's concept is different so being able to use your powers and coordinate with your team-mates should be implemented in my opinion.

 

That being said, it is a really awesome idea there. Good job :)

1) If implemented, hopefully the boss would have some thought put into its timing.

Example: There would be no Dark Attractor fired if a Sniper round is less than 3 seconds from being fired.

Things like that.

 

It's not easy, but it'd need to be done in a way where he never feels cheap.

So, if you get killed, you think "I made the mistake there. Won't happen next time".

 

2)Trinity was one Warframe that I had in mind when I put Dispel in there.

Considering how unbelievably easy it is to spam powers (4x Energy Siphon, max efficiency), Trinity would completely trivialize this fight.

However, even with dispel, she would still be extremely useful.

Say a player just got hit with a sniper round, Trinity uses blessing to heal him, but not go make everyone invincible.

 

The other ones I had in mind were Ash/Loki for invisibility and Frost for Snowglobe spam.

 

It's a tricky thing to figure out. But, honestly, there's no way to make a truly difficult boss if players are allowed to spam their powers. (unless that boss has an ability to nullify them)

[-CdG-Chocolate_Cat]

Up vote DE needs to add this...

[MercenaryLord]

There could be a sort of pulse that drains energy from all the players in the beginning, and possibly periodically throughout the battle. That way if someone gets enough energy to actually use a power, they could feel justified and successful for actually managing it

[Anatasia]

Trust me, I'm not a big fan of Dispel either.

But, with the current way powers work, any boss can be completely trivialized with power spam.

 

I'm still thinking of a good way to get rid of Dispel, but still sort out the problem, but I haven't thought of a solution yet.

 

1) If implemented, hopefully the boss would have some thought put into its timing.

Example: There would be no Dark Attractor fired if a Sniper round is less than 3 seconds from being fired.

Things like that.

 

It's not easy, but it'd need to be done in a way where he never feels cheap.

So, if you get killed, you think "I made the mistake there. Won't happen next time".

 

2)Trinity was one Warframe that I had in mind when I put Dispel in there.

Considering how unbelievably easy it is to spam powers (4x Energy Siphon, max efficiency), Trinity would completely trivialize this fight.

However, even with dispel, she would still be extremely useful.

Say a player just got hit with a sniper round, Trinity uses blessing to heal him, but not go make everyone invincible.

 

The other ones I had in mind were Ash/Loki for invisibility and Frost for Snowglobe spam.

 

It's a tricky thing to figure out. But, honestly, there's no way to make a truly difficult boss if players are allowed to spam their powers. (unless that boss has an ability to nullify them)

If Trinity can only use Blessing for the healing portion, wouldn't it be much more beneficial to use Team Health Restore (The one that can be crafted from the shop, not sure if I got this spelling right) and switching out Trinity for another Warframe more adept at being against this boss?

 

This will kind of limit the types of Warframes that can go against this boss and will bring up those kind of issues where "Oh because you are using a Trinity we are not gonna invite you" etc.

 

I am not saying that it should be removed completely but I feel it should at least go through a slight rework. I like the idea MercenaryLord brought up about how it has pulses that drains energy and goes on throughout the battle.

[meIody-]

This is a great concept, and one I'd like to see in the game. I almost thought Lephantis would be like this, pinning you down and screwing you over, SNES-Style, with phases and the boss being the environment and all, (FINAL FORM SIGMA, I'M LOOKING AT YOU!) but then it was just SHOOT SHOOT SHOOT AIM AIM AIM CUTSCEEEEEENE SHOOT SHOOT SHOOT SHOOT MODSTORMMMMMM SHOOOOOOT!