Tweaks To Some Frames.

[Recovery8]

I'll start off by saying that I am not a hardcore player, I typically don't like min-maxing my builds and I believe that all abilities should be used and you shouldn't take powers off just to make a better build. I've been playing the game for a long time, since when Volt was a starting frame. I'm only going to touch on the frames I have personally played as If I put my opinions on Rhino it would be biased and I wouldn't have the hands on experience to know what long time Rhino players think he needs.

 

I think it's been said in many threads but I think the major problem with the game at the moment is that powers don't have good synergy on many of the frames and most frames are outclassed by a small handful of frames leading to less teamwork and more rush. I think this is the wrong way and it leads to draining the fun out of being a Tenno. If a Nova can walk into a room and wipe it in less than thirty seconds then there is no point to me setting up spores on my Saryn.

 

Without any more blabber I'll start with one of the frames that truly made me excited when I first saw it and it was my first frame outside of Loki that I did grind for and that frame is, Ash.

 

Ash is the assassin frame, sure you can call him a ninja but I feel that is more in Loki's field when you look at the historical version of a ninja and with that it makes sense that Ash is a high damage frame but what doesn't make sense is his shuriken. A long time a go we didn't have throwing stars as a side are and because of this I did think this power was cool but now...It's just lacking when it doesn't stack well and a sidearm makes his power irrelevant by being stronger than it. Here are the changes I'd make to maybe take this Assassin frame and make him more of a team player.

 

 

Stat changes:

Possible stat change idea, increase his stamina pool and his run speed. As an assassin mobility is a key for him, giving him some extra speed and endurance would not hurt him.

 

 

Shuriken:

Ash's Shuriken should be outright replaced, that or it should stack or set up bleeds. Any of these would be optimal but I like to think of this idea, make the Shuriken a death mark. Have it increase critical chance on a target so that it works in tune with the team. Having it to minimal damage at the start allows for the left mark (Increased lasting by duration or maybe increased crit multiplier by power strength.) to do its job making Ash take down priority targets.

 

Smokescreen:

Smokescreen becoming a teambuff, I know this could be potentially a horrible idea but to make it differentiate between Loki's invisibility more you could possibly make it an AOE buff. Anyone who passes through the smoke should have a shorter version of the invisibility offering more damage out put or not giving one at all. The pros could allow for some team saving ability as well as letting tanks take more damage without having to fight for aggro. To add to this, for the sake of making it less of an OP abbility, on top of having to run through the smoke the duration for allies is locked/reduced in comparison to Ash's stealth time.

 

Teleport:

Teleport is not a problem, in fact it's pretty nice for closing the gap for melee but there is one issue, it's not as viable as just popping into bladestorm at the earliest convenience or even just smoke-screening. I would say an easy way to redeem this is by making it teleport you behind the enemy and facing the targets back. That would be a simple fix but an open range teleport would also be nice, not having to target an enemy and letting him still play his role as ambush predator a bit better than he does now.

 

Bladestorm:

Bladestorm...This is a tricky one. I'm not actually too sure on how to make this one better or if it needs it. On one hand it is a nice panic button as well as a great damage dealer at lower levels. It could add a fear effect to make it more team friendly by having those not targeted run away and not attack for a moment. As said, I'm puzzled on this one.

 

Next is Banshee, outclassed and having the only redeeming factor at the moment being Sonar. Even then sometimes it places the marks on places that are not even viable or are hard to hit. She is in need of love and I'm not going to lie, A lot of my reworks are inspired by Archwizard's ideas on her.

 

Stat Changes:

For her stat change I'd suggest maybe a bigger focus on her shields and power as a sniper is going to take up a spot and needs the ability to take the abuse...maybe have a similarity to Zephyr by letting her health, shields, and energy be the focus at the downside of extremely low stamina?

 

Sonic boom:

Sonic boom is not needed, sure it's nice to have a get away ability and then knockdown does help get some easy finishers I feel as if it can be replaced with a pinpointed whisper. I don't know what to call it but having it be a similar idea to Loki's decoy or Saryn's molt in the sense that it draws enemies in. It would be useful in both team or solo play. Think to how throwing rocks works in Farcry 3 if any of you have played the game. It draws enemies out of cover and lets them become more vulnerable or easier to sneak past.

 

Sonar:

Sonar. Let me make it clear, I love this ability and I love to use it whenever I can. It's not a bad power and for team play it helps a lot with the bigger baddies like Heavy Gunners. I'd only say the complaint is that it should pinpoint vital locations and on bosses not areas that are invincible. It's incredibly awkward to have a glowing orange spot on Ruk's invincible toes.

 

Silence:

Silence. Oh silence, you're useless at the moment. Always with the promise of stealth 2.0 that you'll be so much more but for now you are better off not being slotted and it pains me to say this. With this case I actually have a clear idea that you'd be better if you 1, Made all weapons in a bubble around Banshee (Think turbulence) silent. 2, You make all cries (Including Valkyr's just for effect, or not. I'm not a cop or a game designer.) silent, letting the Warden's in the new event or any other enemy not able to alert the horde. Finally with 3 it'd be nice if silence affected teammates and their weapons/footsteps.

 

Soundquake:

Soundquake is something that I don't really use often. I don't know why, the power is decent and being locked into place isn't that bad of repercussion. I still think that Archwizard had it right here, having it be a placed mine would allow her to fill a sniper roll a lot better than any other frame. With this if someone set off the mine they'd take minimal damage but lock them inside of soundquake's range to hold them still. It'd be a nice CC that if combined with the new first ability could lead to a massacre.

 

Saryn is on the chopping block next. As a frame that I just recently got and have fallen in love with it saddens me to say that you can just use her for miasma. She seems like with contagion that she was meant to be more of a melee frame but with the spores from venom she plays oddly with melee making it hard to spread spores without a weapon that has punch through.

 

Stat changes:

Possible stat change by increasing stamina and armor. Her shields are not important and her health could be lowered slightly. With this set she'd be a better melee caster and it would synergize with the suggested changes below.

 

Venom:

Saryn's spores from venom are fun to play with and the viral proc is a lovely tool to have on infested and grineer. It is however, an incredibly awkward power to use. In the same realm as Sonar this power needs a little tweaking to be made better. For one change it's name to contagion, this is small but it's a touch that makes it feel right. Two is more important, the spores need to be easier or more responsive to melee and other damage types. This would improve contagion so much just by allowing melee to pop them easier that it would be used a lot more than it is now.  DanteVincent brought up in the the thread the possibility of healing for the amount of spores spread, It's a good idea but I do not know how it could be balanced, if you have an idea please feel free to share it.

 

Molt:

Molt, this power is useful but not. It's nice to place it anywhere but other than that it's rare that I use it for much if at all. Maybe by making it explode with gas damage to make all of her powers proc every one of the poison damages but I don't think that'd save this power. You could change it to an attract power, not a bubble but in the same vain as iron skin. Saryn makes enemies come into melee range and in doing so keeps them there for a short amount of time. After the ending of it the power could burst off Saryn and do gas damage to everyone who got too close.

 

Contagion:

"Venom". A lot of people say this power is useless and I honestly don't blame them when they say this. It doesn't buff the poison damage enough. If it increased the status chance of the weapon as well then maybe I'd use it more. I'd say the best thing to do for "Venom" would be to make the power a team buff, adding poison damage to all weapons and making the status chance for all go up while active.

 

Miasma:

Miasma. I don't know what to really say about Miasma, as a ultimate it fits the bill for how most are. It's nice as that there is a small stun in there and that the DoT is still there if the enemies survive. I don't know what to do with it but maybe that'd make it better. They could as an idea bring back over heat but with corrosive damage for Saryn and keeping the name Miasma, allowing her melee combat to flow more fluidly. If you've got a better idea on it, I'd love to hear it.

 

Valkyr is supposedly the beserker frame and while I think at the moment she does an okay job she is not perfect. I know that DE has said that her rework is on its way and It is not really necessary to do this but I wanted to add more to the think tank. While her ultimate is fitting I think Ripline is out of place and of all of her powers Paralysis is the least useful.

 

Stat changes:

As stats go Valkyr is pretty solid at the moment, I wouldn't say she needs any changes other than a minor buff in stamina but that isn't even necessary at the moment.

 

Ripline:

Ripline, It's odd to see this power on a melee beserker frame and I still don't see the reasoning behind it. I'd say scrap it but there is another option. Instead of yanking an enemy towards you it should pull you towards an enemy, thus making it easier to get into melee range and less sloppy when it comes to hitting your target. Another idea is to get rid of it fully and give her a proc buff of some kind, possibly bleed? Making all of her melee abilities apply it on every (or almost every) hit.

 

Warcry:

Warcry, It's a solid power. The armor buff works out in everyone's favor along with the slow for enemies and the speed for allies. In short, I don't think we need to really touch the ability at all. If anyone thinks they've got some ways to tweak it feel free to add but this is her least troubling ability.

 

Paralysis:

Paralysis. I've heard people say this ability is pretty useful but personally I don't find myself using it too often. It just seems outclassed by popping into Hysteria or even just using Warcry to increase the armor value while finding cover. The stun just doesn't last long enough to be worth the loss in the already minor shields. What might be useful here is making it stronger over all or last longer but I don't really think that's the way to go about it. Instead, replace it fully and go with the idea of a bloodlust. When she pops this ability it should make it so the damage she takes it redirected into her health at a fixed rate. It should still cut your shields but this would help make her feel a bit more survivable in the long run.

 

Hysteria:

Hysteria is an odd ability in the sense that it can be summed up in one video. (For the curious:

) It's not a bad power persay and the invincibility is nice...but boring. It might be because the negative effect doesn't seem to show up and allows her to keep going but the synergy it -could- have with a bloodlust ability when the damage is taken after could help tremendously. Though really, We just need not to float and we really need the melee counter to affect it as well as letting it have unique combos.

 

Those are the only ones I'd want to touch in great detail as I play Hydroid and Zephyr as my other frames. Zeph and Hydroid both play very well with their other abilities and as much as I'd want to say that maybe buffing Divebomb would be smart it's not something that is at the front of any issues with the game. Hydroid is a frame that I think is a step in the right direction as well as Zephyr as they both play with with all of their abilities. 

These are just my opinions however so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. As said in the post, I'm not a developer and I won't pretend to be. I'd be happy to see what you guys think so please comment and discuss changes you think might be useful.

 

Edit: Added Valkyr idea's into the mix, after playing her a bit more I think I have some idea's that might work well with the little ball of hate.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Recovery8

[DiBBz]

"I think it's been said in many threats"

 

wait what people are making threats to DE for them to fix other warframes #NewsToMe

 

DE is all ready aware of the other warframes and are coming up with a plan to buff those that need it most , as they said in their livestreams

[Recovery8]

"I think it's been said in many threats"

 

wait what people are making threats to DE for them to fix other warframes #NewsToMe

 

DE is all ready aware of the other warframes and are coming up with a plan to buff those that need it most , as they said in their livestreams

I am so embarrassed right now. I had the thread posted earlier than I wanted and I'm having to actually post it. I know they said they are going to buff the frames but I'm just adding my own ideas in. It doesn't really make a difference but it's nice to have the topics talked about among the community.

[MechaKnight]

I +1 this thread. Banshee and Saryn have been released in U7 but didn't feel complete. However, I believe Saryn's seriously broken everywhere, hence why Banshee is seen more. Or maybe it's the fact that Saryn's in a corner of the solar system with seemingly no importance.

 

 

I'l

 

Saryn is on the chopping block next. As a frame that I just recently got and have fallen in love with it saddens me to say that you can just use her for miasma. She seems like with contagion that she was meant to be more of a melee frame but with the spores from venom she plays oddly with melee making it hard to spread spores without a weapon that has punch through.

 

1. Saryn's spores from venom are fun to play with and the viral proc is a lovely tool to have on infested and grineer. It is however, an incredibly awkward power to use. In the same realm as Sonar this power needs a little tweaking to be mad better. For one change it's name to contagion, this is small but it's a touch that makes it feel right. Two is more important, the spores need to be easier or more responsive to melee and other damage types. This would improve contagion so much just by allowing melee to pop them easier that it would be used a lot more than it is now.

 

2. Molt, this power is useful but not. It's nice to place it anywhere but other than that it's rare that I use it for much if at all. Maybe by making it explode with gas damage to make all of he powers proc every one of the poison damages but I don't think that'd save this power. You could change it to an attract power, not a bubble but in the same vain as iron skin. Saryn makes enemies come into melee range and in doing so keeps them there for a short amount of time. After the ending of it the power could burst off Saryn and do gas damage to everyone who got too close.

 

3. "Venom". A lot of people say this power is useless and I honestly don't blame them when they say this. It doesn't buff the poison damage enough. If it increased the status chance of the weapon as well then maybe I'd use it more. I'd say the best thing to do for "Venom" would be to make the power a team buff, adding poison damage to all weapons and making the status chance for all go up while active.

 

4. Miasma. I don't know what to really say about Miasma, as a ultimate it fits the bill for how most are. It's nice as that there is a small stun in there and that the DoT is still there if the enemies survive. I don't know what to do with it but maybe that'd make it better. They could as an idea bring back over heat but with corrosive damage for Saryn and keeping the name Miasma, allowing her melee combat to flow more fluidly. If you've got a better idea on it, I'd love to hear it.

 

 

 

"If you've got a better idea on it, I'd love to hear it."

Tons. I got tons. The community does too. I'll cross link your thread in mine.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/224577-saryn-anyone-remember-her/

Edited May 5, 2014 by MechaKnight

[Recovery8]

I +1 this thread. Banshee and Saryn have been released in U7 but didn't feel complete. However, I believe Saryn's seriously broken everywhere, hence why Banshee is seen more. Or maybe it's the fact that Saryn's in a corner of the solar system with seemingly no importance.

I've got to agree with you there, I just finished the thread after @(*()$ up but if you look I try to not focus to bad on the negatives of her. Negativity leads to a toxic (No pun intended) discussion on why she sucks and not how to fix her. It'd be nice if that sector in general had some importance because a lot of them do have nothing special and it's not just her area. 

[MechaKnight]

Your ideas for Ash are pretty nice for the said Ash rebalance. I did cite in my thread that Ash doesn't have the CC that Loki has, but invisible 'frames don't tend to have a focus in crowd control. With that alternative plan for Smoke Screen, it will essentially act as a unique form of crowd control--instead of disabling enemies, it enables teammates. Useful for covering yourself and a friend, this can make up for Blade Storm's lack of crowd control compared to Loki's Radial Disarm.

[Recovery8]

Your ideas for Ash are pretty nice for the said Ash rebalance. I did cite in my thread that Ash doesn't have the CC that Loki has, but invisible 'frames don't tend to have a focus in crowd control. With that alternative plan for Smoke Screen, it will essentially act as a unique form of crowd control--instead of disabling enemies, it enables teammates. Useful for covering yourself and a friend, this can make up for Blade Storm's lack of crowd control compared to Loki's Radial Disarm.

I can agree there, as much as I don't want to just talk on thread there is a point to where having no CC becomes a problem in the late game when damage is nice but is not always going to save you. When Ash's main end game comes down to being a glorified medic with smokescreen there is an issue that could be fixed with a few easy touch ups.

[Recovery8]

Bump, Made some edits to the thread on how team stealth would work with Ash to make it have less potential to be OP as well as toying with the stats of the three mentioned frames.

[(PSN)DanteVincent]

What I always said about venom : it should heal 1 point per second per spore deployed, would go awesomely well with saryn's theme, a parasite tank with high hp and fair armor value.

[Recovery8]

What I always said about venom : it should heal 1 point per second per spore deployed, would go awesomely well with saryn's theme, a parasite tank with high hp and fair armor value.

That's actually a very good idea that could possibly work out for her, I'll make note of it in the thread but there is a problem with the heal rate and how to balance it. I've updated the thread to include some possible ideas for Valkyr.

Edited May 5, 2014 by Recovery8

[Recovery8]

Edit made, Cleaned up the post to make it less a wall of text and easier to read. Working on possible idea's for Rhino at the moment do to clan member input.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Recovery8

[Recovery8]

Bumping the thread.

[Zero.No.Hikari]

This is what I feel should be done to Banshee and Ash the rest I feel just need minor tweaks nothing too big