I Have A Problem About Rhino Iron Skin, But I Did Come Up With An Idea For It And I Would Like Feedback. *idea Edit*

[SWAT_Omega]

So every since I have had rhino it wen through a lot of changes though its life cycle, 15 sec invincible, 80% reduction, and its current state 1200 ferrite armor. Thought I have this problem of when the game starts i press 2, break, repeat. so i sat down came with an idea that is toggled and drain energy base on damage taken.

 

Iron Skin cost 25 energy- while toggled on Rhino does not take damage and base levels of damage rhino takes energy is drained. The levels of damage is 50/75/100/125 and uses 1 or 1.5 energy per threshold of damage.

 

My thought is you control how long you want Iron Skin on for and the more damage you take the more energy is drained, say if you have a LVL 30 rhino with no mods and max energy you have 18750 HP with 1 energy or 12500 HP with the 1.5 energy. This does seem a lot of HP thought i was thinking of a escalation system where if take a lot of damage in a short amount of time you are drained of even more energy, though i still need to do some more math.

 

So do please provide constructive Feedback on what you guys think.

 

EDIT: So this is getting mix feelings so what about this:

 

Iron skin armor it effected by HP and armor of rhino. So lets take a lvl rhino with no mods and buy using the armor reduction formula *max hp x (1+(armor/300)) come to 2450 *Please note in this formula 100% of the max HP is added to iron skin health* now if it was effected by MAX mods vitality, vigor, and steel fibers comes too 4799.8 effective iron skin HP. now let say you also had a max Redirection and if do all the math for rhino max effective HP WITHOUT ability mods comes too 8093.6 effective HP.

Edited November 4, 2014 by SWAT_Omega

[ShadowDragon000]

I think the energy shell type idea would work better on a more caster like frame than on Rhino as he doesn't have a ton of base energy and using a lot of energy to maintain Iron Skin would be frustrating and essentially make me choose between using it or other abilities, what I would really prefer is damage resistance with a cap on the amount of damage that it can resist while still providing the knockdown and status immunities while active. That way it could still not be duration based and would synchronize better with more defensive builds rather than it either making you essentially immortal through low levels and peeling off in one hit through high levels.

[SWAT_Omega]

I think the energy shell type idea would work better on a more caster like frame than on Rhino as he doesn't have a ton of base energy and using a lot of energy to maintain Iron Skin would be frustrating and essentially make me choose between using it or other abilities, what I would really prefer is damage resistance with a cap on the amount of damage that it can resist while still providing the knockdown and status immunities while active. That way it could still not be duration based and would synchronize better with more defensive builds rather than it either making you essentially immortal through low levels and peeling off in one hit through high levels.

yes i can see what your saying but take this for example most people run with flow and streamline on warframes which bring rhino energy to 300 and .7 energy in my example. *does math* which brings it to 48750 HP with 1 energy and 39375 HP. with the corrupted mods .25 energy 150,000 hp.

Edited October 29, 2014 by SWAT_Omega

[ShadowDragon000]

I still feel that having your defenses tied so directly to your energy pool feels like something to be done with like a hyper squishy frame whose life would depend on not completely depleting their energy and that Rhino feels like he should work more off of his inherent/modded defenses than just being super tanky because your playing him mage on top of his physical tank attributes.

[SWAT_Omega]

I still feel that having your defenses tied so directly to your energy pool feels like something to be done with like a hyper squishy frame whose life would depend on not completely depleting their energy and that Rhino feels like he should work more off of his inherent/modded defenses than just being super tanky because your playing him mage on top of his physical tank attributes.

Then what do you suggest Iron skin should work i you had he ability to rework it

[MECHANICAL_GURU]

Your idea is already implemented in the form of a mod card called "Quick Thinking." If you were to slap it onto your Rhino, you would be considerably more invincible.

 

Iron Skin is meant to be a repreive from taking constant damage and being staggered constantly. I like how it works now; although it does a piss-poor job while on higher-tier missions, it still provides immunity to damage, however small that may be.

Edited October 29, 2014 by MECHANICAL_GURU

[ShadowDragon000]

I would want something like Iron Skin provides 40% damage resistance additional resistance scaling with Armor Mods (up to somewhere like 70%, Iron Skin breaks after resisting 5k damage scaling with power strength. While Iron Skin is active Rhino is immune to Knockdown/Status Effects. This way it makes Rhino tougher but it isn't just a third heath bar that happens before shield.

[SWAT_Omega]

I would want something like Iron Skin provides 40% damage resistance additional resistance scaling with Armor Mods (up to somewhere like 70%, Iron Skin breaks after resisting 5k damage scaling with power strength. While Iron Skin is active Rhino is immune to Knockdown/Status Effects. This way it makes Rhino tougher but it isn't just a third heath bar that happens before shield.

They have tryed something like that before thought the feedback was negative. how would the armor scaling work?

[SWAT_Omega]

Your idea is already implemented in the form of a mod card called "Quick Thinking." If you were to slap it onto your Rhino, you would be considerably more invincible.

 

Iron Skin is meant to be a repreive from taking constant damage and being staggered constantly. I like how it works now; although it does a &!$$-poor job while on higher-tier missions, it still provides immunity to damage, however small that may be.

When you are out of health points, Quick Thinking uses your residual energy pool as an additional health buffer to prevent death.

Energy lost via Quick Thinking utilizes the armor value of your warframe. The efficiency value will act as an additional damage reduction with the values listed below.

Quick thinking stop death, my idea is for damage absorbsion, 2 different things. Quoted right of the wikia.

Edited October 29, 2014 by SWAT_Omega

[ShadowDragon000]

Idk something like Damage Reduction = Iron Skin Base Damage Resist * ((Total Armor - Base Armor) / 100 )

 

In a lecture at the moment so no time to check math and come up with a more intelligent formula.

 

edit: Ya its super derpy was just to be an example of maxed Steel Fiber on Rhino falls apart otherwise.

Edited October 29, 2014 by ShadowDragon000

[SWAT_Omega]

Idk something like Damage Reduction = Iron Skin Base Damage Resist * ((Total Armor - Base Armor) / 10 )

 

In a lecture at the moment so no time to check math and come up with a more intelligent formula.

Dont worry Im in English class as well. The lotus would not be pleased.

[ShadowDragon000]

I really just want something for Iron Skin that makes it more consistent, so its always just as useful regardless of enemy level without moving it away from being a non duration based or energy intensive ability like it is now.

[5H4DE]

Iron skin toggled is bad , since in a high level mission your whole energy pool will get depleted in about 7-10 seconds , im ok with it as it is now , get yourself tons of power strength and youre set .

[Casval_Rouge]

No I don't think this is a good idea because then Rhino can't afford to use the rest of his abilities.  One of the key point of the U15 change was to encourage the usage of all powers, not just build for 1 and then forma the rest of the slots to empower it.  In order for Rhino to fuel Iron Skin, you would have to alter your build to be able to first, be able to sustain it, second to be able to also use the rest of his powers, notable Rhino Stomp.  In order to do that you need Flow, Intensify, Streamline, potentially Fleeting, and Blind Rage.  That's 3-5 mods just so Iron Skin will be useful beyond just being some bonus health and immunity to knockdowns / staggers.  ALL of that just so Rhino can stay alive longer in the opening.  We already have better powers for that, called Invisible and Rift Walk.  I'm not saying those are overpowered, but clearly your Iron Skin is simply worst and just not worth the effort.  Even if you can turn it on and off, it doesn't matter because then it becomes an emergency button.  Why not just use Rhino Stomp to buy the team the time?  Why the need to soak up damage when the game doesn't even have the proper support for Threat / Aggro mechanics.

 

Right now all Iron Skin does is to give Rhino the extra health he needs to stay in the opening, thus making him the more likely target to the enemies.  While I don't think it is perfect, it does the job for what it is.  Especially if they can fix the scaling problem.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Casval_Rouge

[Azawarau]

I still think the best route is to lower iron skins base hp and make it affected by armor then add a timer so it doesnt last forever

 

It wont be broken on early missions and will scale better past lvl 40

 

Transient fortitude kind of added to the problem

[(PSN)V3RM1THRAX]

Wouldn't steel fiber make more sense to increase iron skin strength?

[DSpite]

About the only way to make it scale is allow IS to slowly peel as individual strikes hit Rhino. SOme of the special, high end strikes like Sniper rounds and Bombard missiles could take a chunk of strikes in one blow. I mean.

 

A hundred low level strikes (and you would only count in some arbitrary way, otherwise ANY auto weapon would peel it in seconds), and it comes off. You would take hundred strikes from Level 1 mobs and it would come off, and it would last 100 strikes from high level trash mobs before coming off, and not 1 hit from a high level mosquito.

 

Basically you have a ton load of armor nanobots that fix damage as it comes in, but run of on energy at some stage, and need to be reactivated, or just <INSERT OTHER SPACEMAGIC HERE>.

 

I'm not saying I Iike it, just saying I can't see any other way to make it "scale".

[MechaKnight]

On the one hand, this would work more or less like Iron Skin as it is, except you do not need to reapply it. If you do not take much damage through the mission in total, this variant of Iron Skin could even be more efficient for short runs with a quick mission objective. However, when considering infinite scaling, there are times when it would be better to throw on a full coat of iron skin just as you are about to resurrect an ally.

 

As of now, we can now use Blind Rage, Intensify, and Transient Fortitude together. This means Iron Skin can have a total of 3408 Ferrite-based health before it goes down.

 

All Iron Skin really needs is the ability to be reapplied whenever you wish. It's an extremely strong ability now with the new power strength ceiling.

[OHyeahWF]

No I don't think this is a good idea because then Rhino can't afford to use the rest of his abilities.  One of the key point of the U15 change was to encourage the usage of all powers, not just build for 1 and then forma the rest of the slots to empower it.  In order for Rhino to fuel Iron Skin, you would have to alter your build to be able to first, be able to sustain it, second to be able to also use the rest of his powers, notable Rhino Stomp.  In order to do that you need Flow, Intensify, Streamline, potentially Fleeting, and Blind Rage.  That's 3-5 mods just so Iron Skin will be useful beyond just being some bonus health and immunity to knockdowns / staggers.  ALL of that just so Rhino can stay alive longer in the opening.  We already have better powers for that, called Invisible and Rift Walk.  I'm not saying those are overpowered, but clearly your Iron Skin is simply worst and just not worth the effort.  Even if you can turn it on and off, it doesn't matter because then it becomes an emergency button.  Why not just use Rhino Stomp to buy the team the time?  Why the need to soak up damage when the game doesn't even have the proper support for Threat / Aggro mechanics.

 

Right now all Iron Skin does is to give Rhino the extra health he needs to stay in the opening, thus making him the more likely target to the enemies.  While I don't think it is perfect, it does the job for what it is.  Especially if they can fix the scaling problem.

Agree !!

[Insidiatorii]

So every since I have had rhino it wen through a lot of changes though its life cycle, 15 sec invincible, 80% reduction, and its current state 1200 ferrite armor. Thought I have this problem of when the game starts i press 2, break, repeat. so i sat down came with an idea that is toggled and drain energy base on damage taken.

 

Iron Skin cost 25 energy- while toggled on Rhino does not take damage and base levels of damage rhino takes energy is drained. The levels of damage is 50/75/100/125 and uses 1 or 1.5 energy per threshold of damage.

 

My thought is you control how long you want Iron Skin on for and the more damage you take the more energy is drained, say if you have a LVL 30 rhino with no mods and max energy you have 18750 HP with 1 energy or 12500 HP with the 1.5 energy. This does seem a lot of HP thought i was thinking of a escalation system where if take a lot of damage in a short amount of time you are drained of even more energy, though i still need to do some more math.

 

So do please provide constructive Feedback on what you guys think.

Well, the thing is, is that if you would want it on for the whole game then you would never really have any energy, and say, if you were doing Akkad with 2 Vaub's and a Nova or something then you would basically just have infinite Armoured Skin, although its not going to do much at lower levels but while in higher levels where the Toxic ancients start to peak then its can probably get OP, you put good thought into it and I think that you should still try to come up with some fixes for Iron Skin. Rhino P is one of my favourite frames and I feel as if this new Iron Skin is exceptionally weak, lower enemies can deplete it as soon as you can put it on. Also, I think that he takes more damage for some reason... i have 300+ armour, 1020 shield, and 680 health but I die faster than a Mirage or Ash... can anyone explain this?

[SWAT_Omega]

Well, the thing is, is that if you would want it on for the whole game then you would never really have any energy, and say, if you were doing Akkad with 2 Vaub's and a Nova or something then you would basically just have infinite Armoured Skin, although its not going to do much at lower levels but while in higher levels where the Toxic ancients start to peak then its can probably get OP, you put good thought into it and I think that you should still try to come up with some fixes for Iron Skin. Rhino P is one of my favourite frames and I feel as if this new Iron Skin is exceptionally weak, lower enemies can deplete it as soon as you can put it on. Also, I think that he takes more damage for some reason... i have 300+ armour, 1020 shield, and 680 health but I die faster than a Mirage or Ash... can anyone explain this?

Do note while you have iron skin on you are more likely to get attack by the enemy, in other words iron skin draws agro.

[vash2pid]

Do note while you have iron skin on you are more likely to get attack by the enemy, in other words iron skin draws agro.

I thought they removed that ages ago.

[SWAT_Omega]

I thought they removed that ages ago.

nope still in the program for it

[Insidiatorii]

Do note while you have iron skin on you are more likely to get attack by the enemy, in other words iron skin draws agro.

Which also makes Iron Skin that much weaker, that just proves my point even more! :D

[Dommino66]

tieng Rhinos iron skin to his energy seems off but maby you could tie it to his stamina that way its a resource that does not cripple him.