Snipetron Is Pathetically Under Powered - Claimed Weapon Balance Not Put Into Effect

[Krilion]

Weapon Balance Changes (Update 7.x)...

 

...

SNIPETRON:

Damage now 115, was 100 / Reload time now 3.8, was 5

 

...

 

 

It's not 115, and no change since has modified damage.

 

That is, the posted change-log has it increased in damage, but it hasn't been - and no other change-log since has altered damage.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Krilion

[MetalGerbil]

not sure it would matter regardless. rooms arent big enough to make its range useful. its out powered by most things in the ranges you see 99% of the time.

 

until they put in a reason to want the ability to hit from that far, its going to remain useless. regardless of its damage.

[tsubasakuroi]

So... how about giving it Armor Ignore or Puncture?

 

Or both, if they really wanted to give it the feeling of it being a powerful sniper rifle but I'm pretty sure many would view that as ridiculously overpowered.

Edited April 30, 2013 by tsubasakuroi

[Temporary]

No idea what mods you're putting on but mine will OHK anything other than elite units and bosses...

[Krilion]

The point is, they know it is and they failed to actually do a weapon damage increase that they listed in patch notes.

[MetalGerbil]

no... its more like.

here, you now have an artillery piece! you can bomb things that are kilometers away! O.O

rooms are only a couple of hundred feet at best, any ol gun will do. -_-

combined with the fact that few things in this game are actually a threat at long range, you can comfortably kill stuff with other rifles or guns with better fire rate and more versatility.

even as an opener to a room to snipe things at long range, it loses its effectiveness quickly as things get closer. and closer they will easily get as they dont have to go very far. :/

Edited April 30, 2013 by MetalGerbil

[Vaskadar]

no... its more like.

here, you now have an artillery piece! you can bomb things that are kilometers away! O.O

rooms are only a couple of hundred feet at best, any ol gun will do. -_-

combined with the fact that few things in this game are actually a threat at long range, you can comfortably kill stuff with other rifles or guns with better fire rate and more versatility.

even as an opener to a room to snipe things at long range, it loses its effectiveness quickly as things get closer. and closer they will easily get as they dont have to go very far. :/

 

The recent changes in level design reflect an intention to create larger spaces, longer lines of sight, etc. The snipetron is far more useful on these newer areas than in previous tilesets like the corpus spaceship (which made shotguns effectively the strongest weapons to utilize in that area).

Edited April 30, 2013 by Vaskadar

[Scherhardt]

Nom nom nom. Snipertron mmm. 

Edited April 30, 2013 by Scherhardt

[Zyfe3rX]

We need Armor piercing or explosive rounds for snipertron !

 

And it should have separate "SNIPER MODS" instead of just rifle mods.

These sniper mods only fits with snipers and does a HUGE DAMAGE boost compared to other rifles.

 

 

BUFF EVERYTHING INSTEAD OF NERFING SOMETHING !

[neKroMancer]

We need Armor piercing or explosive rounds for snipertron !

 

And it should have separate "SNIPER MODS" instead of just rifle mods.

These sniper mods only fits with snipers and does a HUGE DAMAGE boost compared to other rifles.

 

 

BUFF EVERYTHING INSTEAD OF NERFING SOMETHING !

The last sentence is practically not a solution. Consider long term result of 'buff everything' - powercreep is undesirable from design and gameplay standpoints.

[Krilion]

The last sentence is practically not a solution. Consider long term result of 'buff everything' - powercreep is undesirable from design and gameplay standpoints.

Power creep is only an issue when there's a limited zone. 

 

There will be bigger and harder levels.

[Panzermeido]

I don't really think that the Snipetron's problem is the lack of an appropriate range. Before U7, Snipetron was a great, viable weapon. It had 9 ammo per mag, very decent reload speed (a little longer than the current Hek) and a considerable damage stat.

 

The true strength of Snipetron, in my opinion, is quick target acquisition. It's very easy to go for head shots. Or leg shots, when it comes to the Magical Infested Boot of Death. Quick target acquisition happens even in tight corridors, even in somewhat small rooms. Snipetron could clear rooms quickly, felt great and was a good weapon overall.

 

I still believe that Snipetron needs a considerable ammo and reload buff and nothing more. You don't have the option to do quick follow-up shots if you missed or didn't outright kill an enemy right now, and this somehow makes the rifle sad.

 

Killing enemies outright isn't the only possible way to buff the rifle - having a large mag and a freedom to reacquire the target and do another shot can be just as satisfying.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Panzermeido

[neKroMancer]

Power creep is only an issue when there's a limited zone. 

 

There will be bigger and harder levels.

 

Effectively higher HP/shielded/DPS enemy. Before talking about expanding the game, may be we should make things more balance in a current situation?

 

If DE buff everything to the old Hek level, then all available contents will be a walk in the park. Then DE add harder enemy which is just a buff version of what we have. New weapon release will be standardize with Hek or players is probably going to expect new weapon to be better than the Hek. Then we buff the rest of the weapon to the new standard, again. That is a lot of work to circumvent the problem and we will just see same problem appear over and over again.

 

The alternative is to nerf one weapon and keep everything else as it is. Less work and easier to do, more time and resource to do something else.

 

IMO, each weapon should fill a specific niche more than a straight upgrade. Hek and Snipertron just compete for the same niche while Hek is superior in almost every aspects. Nerf Hek a bit and buff Snipertron a little will be enough imo. The heavy-handed shotgun nerf wasn't good since it just an attempt to curb Hek range without filling the gap with anything worth using.

 

We well see something about it real soon.

[Krilion]

Effectively higher HP/shielded/DPS enemy. Before talking about expanding the game, may be we should make things more balance in a current situation?

 

If DE buff everything to the old Hek level, then all available contents will be a walk in the park. Then DE add harder enemy which is just a buff version of what we have. New weapon release will be standardize with Hek or players is probably going to expect new weapon to be better than the Hek. Then we buff the rest of the weapon to the new standard, again. That is a lot of work to circumvent the problem and we will just see same problem appear over and over again.

 

The alternative is to nerf one weapon and keep everything else as it is. Less work and easier to do, more time and resource to do something else.

 

IMO, each weapon should fill a specific niche more than a straight upgrade. Hek and Snipertron just compete for the same niche while Hek is superior in almost every aspects. Nerf Hek a bit and buff Snipertron a little will be enough imo. The heavy-handed shotgun nerf wasn't good since it just an attempt to curb Hek range without filling the gap with anything worth using.

 

We well see something about it real soon.

Plus it killed the Strum and Boar as well, and reduced to Hek to the WORST shotgun. The Bronco doesn't have falloff either.

 

But the issue is that the Snipetron IS SUPPOSED TO BE at 115, not 100. The change log says it. WHY IS IT AT 100?

[Tekkaman-Blade]

wow, this needs to be fixed

[Argoms]

I think they've made this mistake more than once, too. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/17356-update-7x-weapon-balance-notes/ from March...

 

There will be bigger and harder levels.

That's exactly what power creep is. Keep making levels bigger and harder and buffing weapons to be stronger and eventually power becomes stupidly inflated.

[Krilion]

I think they've made this mistake more than once, too. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/17356-update-7x-weapon-balance-notes/ from March...

 

That's exactly what power creep is. Keep making levels bigger and harder and buffing weapons to be stronger and eventually power becomes stupidly inflated.

No. Because you make the bigger and bettwe weapons harder to get. Rank up to 4 to get the hek, or any new weapons they do. Its pve, so balance is less of an issue. If you Level up all the shotguns to rank 30 and keep using them, youre missing out.

The problem people had with shotguns was that super charging comeplete 'broke' them. Ever use a supercharged latron? After last rifle buff its probably the most broken gun. Burston too. The point of having the supercharge system to to make you pay to OP your weapon.

But why is the bronco out of the box more useful than my 28 supercharged hek at distances beyond 10m?

Not the point. The snipetron is crap compared to every other gun in its category, the bow, the latron, the Lex Still outdamages it it once leveled and modded.

[Argoms]

No. Because you make the bigger and bettwe weapons harder to get. Rank up to 4 to get the hek, or any new weapons they do. 

 

Where did you get the idea that this has to be the case? In case you haven't noticed, the latest gorgon/hek nerf has shown that the developers don't want higher-level weapons to completely overshadow lower level ones. Whether they nerfed them correctly or not is another issue, but the point is that this game's weapons are meant to be sidegrades.

[neKroMancer]

PvE game, at least the most recent one, ME3MP, also use the design that make new weapons as alternatives to existing weapon. I believe that DE probably going to follow the same philosophy. 

 

They don't release new items that are direct upgrades of existing weapon. Think of our recent release - Dual Ether, Grakata. Glaive, Viper, Paris, Fang, Ankyros - none of them a direct upgrade of existing weapon.

 

The point of this design is each weapon should fill a different niche and able to equally reach highest level of PvE without requiring 'better' weapon for it. The only thing that you can dish from your inventory is your starter weapons. I think DE will buff and nerf a lot more weapons/powers in the coming weeks and they will try to do it before the 1.0 release.

 

Prepare for rollercoster balance change, Tenno. (Hope they don't do something as mad as BWdev though. Those bunch are really good at get the playerbase mad at them with the weekly balance change.) 

 

However, Snipertron in the current state - appropriate modded with 90% serration, 40%AP and 30%reload can efficiently kill everything up to lv 35.

[Argoms]

PvE game, at least the most recent one, ME3MP, also use the design that make new weapons as alternatives to existing weapon. I believe that DE probably going to follow the same philosophy. 

 

They don't release new items that are direct upgrades of existing weapon. Think of our recent release - Dual Ether, Grakata. Glaive, Viper, Paris, Fang, Ankyros - none of them a direct upgrade of existing weapon.

 

The point of this design is each weapon should fill a different niche and able to equally reach highest level of PvE without requiring 'better' weapon for it. The only thing that you can dish from your inventory is your starter weapons. I think DE will buff and nerf a lot more weapons/powers in the coming weeks and they will try to do it before the 1.0 release.

 

Prepare for rollercoster balance change, Tenno. (Hope they don't do something as mad as BWdev though. Those bunch are really good at get the playerbase mad at them with the weekly balance change.) 

 

However, Snipertron in the current state - appropriate modded with 90% serration, 40%AP and 30%reload can efficiently kill everything up to lv 35.

Well, it can kill 4 things, and then a lengthy reload. Plus it has very little ammo, so even with perfect accuracy, you're likely to run out on longer levels. Efficiently isn't a word I'd use, since the latron can do more damage more quickly and needs less reloading, and extreme ranges (where latron's zoom isn't enough) aren't very rare.

[Krilion]

Well, it can kill 4 things, and then a lengthy reload. Plus it has very little ammo, so even with perfect accuracy, you're likely to run out on longer levels. Efficiently isn't a word I'd use, since the latron can do more damage more quickly and needs less reloading, and extreme ranges (where latron's zoom isn't enough) aren't very rare.

This. The snipetron is outclassed by everything else of its 'niche'. My lex does more damage, faster, with more ammo.

The issue i brought up was that the devs failed to apply their own patch notes and buff it.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Krilion

[Argoms]

Its niche is apparently meant to be extreme-range combat where the zoom would mean it beat the lex/latron (which doesn't exist yet).

[neKroMancer]

Well, it can kill 4 things, and then a lengthy reload. Plus it has very little ammo, so even with perfect accuracy, you're likely to run out on longer levels. Efficiently isn't a word I'd use, since the latron can do more damage more quickly and needs less reloading, and extreme ranges (where latron's zoom isn't enough) aren't very rare.

 

Well, let's hope that the new tileset will be more expansive than the usual claustrophobic style of 2/3 existing tiles. The only tile that Snipertron excel is the outpost.  

[Krilion]

Extreme range? Extreme range is 400m. Thats actually eh range, where sniper rifles start to outclass normal rifles. More importantly, since enemies all use normal weapons, youll never ever need that range. Ballista cant seem to hit you past 20m, either.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Krilion

[Argoms]

Yeah, that's what needs to be fixed for the snipetron to be useful.