Comprehensive Frost (Prime) Revisions And Feedback Attempt (Update 9.6.1)

[ChaoticVice777]

Who’s Frost?

 

Ah, good ol’ Frosty the Snowman. Er…

 

*one tarring and feathering incident later*

 

Frost is one of the most desired/well-known/iconic Tenno classes in Warframe. His name, stats, and abilities (Freeze, Ice Wave, Snow Globe, and Avalanche), portray him as the defensive caster/tank and the avatar of ice. Frost is one of the two frames that have Prime versions. Frost Prime is currently the only Prime Warframe that can be farmed in the Orokin Void Raid and Extermination missions.

 

What are the benefits/downsides of playing Frost?

 

Swag, as Frost is the only Warframe with a trench coat and Frost Prime, as with all Primes, have the gold/Orokin decorations. Defensive capabilities, as Snow Globe provides near-impenetrable protection and Frost has excellent stats and polarities.

 

Looks good on paper, but how about in practice? Frost is currently limited in two areas: being slow and a one-trick pony. Being slow is fine since he’s meant to be defensive and there are methods to allow Frost to keep up (dual melee weapons and/or speed mods). Being a one-trick pony…not so much.

 

The main issue with Freeze, Ice Wave, and Avalanche is the lack of both crowd control and damage. Thanks to the awesome armor scaling of Warframe, Frost’s abilities are ineffective past Level 30-40, even with power strength mods and the Squall alternate helmet. The main issue with Snow Globe is its lack of balance. Thanks to a combination of power duration and efficiency mods, Frost will never run out of power using Snow Globe. Additionally, Snow Globe is one of those “cast-and-forget” types of moves, except that all damage is being blocked. While that is not bad for scaling into end-game, Snow Globe is the only reason people choose Frost.

 

So now what’s your feedback regarding Frost?

 

Now here comes the most controversial part. Hang on…

*puts on environmental hazard suit*

 

Ability Revamp:

 

Rhino’s a good example of the offensive tank. I would like to make Frost the defensive tank. In other words, Rhino has the damage (and some crowd control), while Frost has the crowd control (and some damage):

 

1) Freeze (2/3/4/5) – Costs 25 energy. This ability shall freeze (3/3/4/5) enemies in place for several (5/4/4/3) seconds while dealing (250/150/150/100) freezing damage. If an enemy dies, the death animation will be akin to a freezing death animation (i.e. breaking to pieces).

 

Intention:

 

Frost’s current form of Freeze breaks after the enemy takes any form of HP damage, is limited to only one target, and has too long of a freezing duration.

 

The damage of the new Freeze falls behind with level scaling, and while ranking this ability freezes more enemies, the freeze duration will decrease. In other words, short-term or long-term crowd control?

 

2) Ice Wave (4/5/6/7) – Costs 50 energy. This ability shall slowdown enemies for a set (45/45/60/75) percentage for several (3/4/4/5) seconds within a certain (10/12.5/15/17.5) meter range. The slowdown can be stacked by freeze mods or abilities, and the duration can be refreshed by using Ice Wave again. A “Frostbite” debuff will be applied to the enemy, dealing (100/150/200/250) armor-ignoring damage over time for that same duration as the slowdown.

 

Intention:

 

Ice Wave represents the other facet of crowd control for Frost: slowdown. The current form of Ice Wave scales its damage terrible, has low range, and doesn’t have crowd control.

 

With such revisions, I am giving Frost a new form of damage (damage over time) while adding crowd control. Understandably, the damage can be considered on the higher side (1250 damage in total for 50 energy), but 5 seconds in this game is a long time.

 

3) Snow Globe (6/7/8/9) – Costs 75 energy. This ability shall slowdown enemies for a set (10/15/20/25) percentage within a certain (4/5/6/7) meter radius for 20 seconds. Players are protected from enemy/ally fire outside the ability for a maximum of (10000/15000/20000/25000) damage before dissipating. The slowdown can stack with freeze mods but can also override the slowdown of Ice Wave.

 

EDIT:

After some feedback, I've decided to include this possible revision:

 

Snow Globe (6/7/8/9) – Costs 75 energy. This ability generates two "bubbles" that shall slowdown enemies for a set (10/15/20/25 for the outside, 35/40/45/50 for the inside) percentage within a certain (5/6/7/8) meter radius for 20 seconds. The range of these "bubbles" are, respectively, a (3/3/4/5) meter range and a (7/8/9/10) meter range. The inside region gives all players protection from enemy/ally fire, and the outside region reduces enemy fire by (25/50/50/75) percent while allowing ally fire. The slowdown of the inside and outside "bubbles" stack with freeze mods and Ice Wave.

 

EDIT #2:

 

After some thoughts, here's another revision:

 

Snow Glob (6/7/8/9) - Costs 75 Energy. This ability generates a large "bubble" that slows down enemies for a set percentage (25/35/45/55) within a certain (5/6/7/8) meter radius for 20 seconds. Snow Globe absorbs a certain set amount (7000/8000/9000/10000) of damage as well as an additional amount of damage that scales with enemy levels (Target Damage Cap = set amount + set amount * .0025 * (current level - base level) ^ 1.40).

 

Intention:

 

Snow Globe had too many benefits and virtually no downsides. Balance was needed, but a high enough damage cap is also needed for this ability to scale well into the end-game. Slowdown was nerfed because it made bosses a sandbag while making Ice Wave more useful.

 

EDIT:

Seems like people think Snow Globe is fine or want to allow ally fire into the bubble. Oh well, let's see how this revision goes.

 

4) Avalanche (10/11/12/13) – Costs 100 energy. This ability stuns enemies, slowly freezing them in place for (4/5/5/6) seconds. While the ability is activated, enemies traveling into the (5/7.5/10/12.5) meter radius will be instantly frozen. A “Fragile” debuff will be applied to the enemy, giving a (25/50/75/100) percent damage bonus when attacking weak points and lasting (3/3/4/5) seconds. This ability cannot deal damage, and armor scaling is removed from all weak points while the “Fragile” debuff is up.

 

Intention:

 

Avalanche was a terrible ultimate, barely stunning and freezing enemies for a significant period of time. Additionally, damage was terrible due to armor scaling.

 

I decided to remove all direct and indirect damage. I decided to give team-oriented, defensive enemy debuffs/crowd control move to make Avalanche one of the few utility-oriented ultimates.

 

Prime vs. Normal Warframes and Weaponry:

 

I've also come to the conclusion that the Prime Warframes and weapons should be better than the normal Warframes, but not to where the improvements are game changing. Several suggestions off the top of my head include:

 

1) All Prime Warframes should have +5% boost to one random base stat, ranging from faster shield regen to more energy. Any Prime weaponry should only consist of sidegrades to stats, but overall make them slightly superior to their counterparts.

 

2) One extra, suitable polarity should be added to any and all Prime Warframes/weapons, but the aura polarities should be left alone. As an example, Excalibur Prime should be changed into one extra "V" polarity on the available mod slots and an aura mod slot with no polarities. Additionally, the Bronco Prime should have a "V" polarity slot.

 

TL;DR: How to give Frost (Prime) Crowd Control in a Wall-of-Text 101.

 

What are your thoughts, fellow Tenno? Constructive criticism is always appreciated.

Edited October 6, 2013 by ChaoticVice777

[BlazenFury]

Help, i'm trying to give more +1s but i can't figure out how D:

[ChaoticVice777]

Help, i'm trying to give more +1s but i can't figure out how D:

 

Alternative accounts?

 

/jokeresponse

 

Yeah, this feedback was been eating at me for a while, and I also wanted to see how others think about these revisions. Currently, I do not believe anyone has done such changes where all the abilities are kept while attempting to balance Snow Globe at the same time.

 

I'll check again in the morning, as it's getting late. Good night!

[Spammie]

No I don't like the changes at least from my point of view Ice Globe is fine, nerf it more and I'll prob sell my frost prime ... as for offensive ability changes I don't think is that much needed, frost is not supposed to get kills with ability's at high level anyway, I play frost for defensive role only, get good weapons with you when you play high level missions ...

[_Absolom_]

I...haver an idea for Snow Globe. Make it channeled? That way you rely on your team to protect the cryopod or revive a fallen teammate.

Freeze should be changed to Ice Spike. Moderate damage, if it doesn't kill it freezes.

Ice Wave is fine the way it is.

Avalanche should act the same as Ice Spike; deal half as much armor ignoring damage and freeze enemies for a maximum of 5 seconds if they didn't die.

Opinions?

Edited August 23, 2013 by Nazgul999

[PaperAlien]

No I don't like the changes at least from my point of view Ice Globe is fine, nerf it more and I'll prob sell my frost prime ... as for offensive ability changes I don't think is that much needed, frost is not supposed to get kills with ability's at high level anyway, I play frost for defensive role only, get good weapons with you when you play high level missions ...

Well that's because you're fine with being a one-trick pony. Most people aren't.

[SanityRobot]

Any Prime weaponry should only consist of sidegrades to stats, but overall make them slightly superior to their counterparts.

 

I'm sorry, what?

 

You have some interesting ideas, but I just don't really like most of the changes...the "slowdown" effects are too convoluted on stacking and what not. Freeze shouldn't get weaker as it levels up, it just seems counterintuitive and backwards. I do like the idea of a hard CC though.

 

Ice Wave I just don't know. I really like the animation, but it's just a number ability. It needs something more...not higher numbers and not a convoluted slowdown that stacks with some things is overridden by other thinks etc. 

[Cyme]

Ice Globe is pretty useless in anything but Corpus defense missions:

Corpus usually start shooting from large distances.

But Grinner tend to get in mid/close quartes before they start shooting, so usually they get killed by the time they get close.

Infested always melee.

 

In the last two cases Snow Globe is just an annoyance. The slow effect can't compensate for the fact that whatever is engulfed by the Globe can't be saved by shooting from a distance.

Add to that that Snow Globe is useful only when the thing you want to protect is stationary, like cryopods, etc.

Also, it makes everything harder to see.

 

Most Frost players don't realize that they are just ruining the game for others when they use Snow Globe everywhere (seriously, it's like 90% of Frost Players are always playing in "retard mode").

I wouldn't nerf it, I would buff it making it transparent, increasing the slow effect, and allowing allies to shoot the inside from outside.

 

Also Freeze should make enemies stay in place even if they are shooted at.

[ChaoticVice777]

I'm sorry, what?

 

You have some interesting ideas, but I just don't really like most of the changes...the "slowdown" effects are too convoluted on stacking and what not. Freeze shouldn't get weaker as it levels up, it just seems counterintuitive and backwards. I do like the idea of a hard CC though.

 

Ice Wave I just don't know. I really like the animation, but it's just a number ability. It needs something more...not higher numbers and not a convoluted slowdown that stacks with some things is overridden by other thinks etc. 

 

Why not? The slight superiority can be found in the lore. You got advanced technology from a civilization that has died out, and all factions covet that tech. Look at the Forerunners in Halo, sort of.

 

Slowdown effects are supposed to be stacked so that ranking up gives significant benefits, but what do you mean that they are too convoluted?

 

Freeze isn't being weakened as it levels up. It freezes more enemies, and in return, freezes for a shorter duration. Like I stated before, do you wish to freeze longer or more targets? Different facets of crowd control, and I even hoping to introduce customization within mod ranking.

 

Now that I think about it, Ice Wave can still technically stack with Molecular Prime's slowdown. Ice Wave is fine, but needed a lot more range, crowd control, and/or damage. I wanted to give Frost an option outside of AOE crowd control while attempting to balance and scale the ability out. The damage of the new Ice Wave I proposed introduces DOTs derived from the other elements. Have you ever noticed a maxed Snow Globe's slowdown in the game? Enemies can barely move, if at all. I was hoping to give that aspect of Snow Globe to Ice Wave. 

 

Ice Globe is pretty useless in anything but Corpus defense missions:

Corpus usually start shooting from large distances.

But Grinner tend to get in mid/close quartes before they start shooting, so usually they get killed by the time they get close.

Infested always melee.

 

In the last two cases Snow Globe is just an annoyance. The slow effect can't compensate for the fact that whatever is engulfed by the Globe can't be saved by shooting from a distance.

Add to that that Snow Globe is useful only when the thing you want to protect is stationary, like cryopods, etc.

Also, it makes everything harder to see.

 

Most Frost players don't realize that they are just ruining the game for others when they use Snow Globe everywhere (seriously, it's like 90% of Frost Players are always playing in "retard mode").

I wouldn't nerf it, I would buff it making it transparent, increasing the slow effect, and allowing allies to shoot the inside from outside.

 

Also Freeze should make enemies stay in place even if they are shooted at.

 

Snow Globe can be a life-saver of Grineer/Infested missions thanks to the slowdown. You can especially see this when you're running T3 (Mobile) Defense and enemies are beginning to swarm the pod. The fact is, Snow Globe doesn't decrease mobility, but it can block one's effective firing range, aggravating quite a few players. Also, my suggestions were made to attempt to remove the "one-trick pony" stigma of Frost.

 

But yeah, I guess a transparent buff could be nice. I don't believe Snow Globe would be balanced to only allow allied fire to shoot the inside from the outside. I don't think Warframes, even with Orokin tech, have the ability to discern which is ally fire and which is enemy fire, lore-wise. As for Freeze, having an enemy stay into place for a longer duration than 10 seconds, if even that, isn't balanced either.

[LukeAura]

What if ice wave just lingered? Less a wave, and more like a police spike strip, or grineer fly paper. Lay it down and any enemies that run onto it get slowed and take some damage for every second or so they stay on it. It would be great as a mobile defensive tool in his arsenal and for crowd controlling enemies.  
 

[ChaoticVice777]

What if ice wave just lingered? Less a wave, and more like a police spike strip, or grineer fly paper. Lay it down and any enemies that run onto it get slowed and take some damage for every second or so they stay on it. It would be great as a mobile defensive tool in his arsenal and for crowd controlling enemies.  

 

 

But then it wouldn't be Ice Wave.

 

/trollresponse

 

So it would be like the Cryo Strips in the Orokin Void missions? Off the top of my head, some potential problems include the range and the fact that the current form Snow Globe would probably be more efficient.

[Jiala]

Let me list my thoughts here in order to each of your proposed suggestions for frost.

 

1) I have to agree with another poster about the proposed changes to the rank one ability. While yes it does freeze more people, it does effectively get weaker the more you level it up. Now yes I do agree frost's rank 1 ability needs some reworking. However I would think of it more like this. Keep the damage scale at the same rate, but like yours it scales the number of targets 1/2/3/4, duration lasting for 3/5/7/9 seconds. Now heres the key difference: Enemies who're hit with it have a shatter effect applied, the next bullet or melee attack dealing 1.5x damage to them when they're hit and unfrozen, this bonus damage ignoring armor.

 

2) Ice wave actually is fairly useful in its current incarnation up to a point. I find its surprising how often both infested and corpus tend to line up for me to cause mass mayhem with this ability. That said, after about level 30-ish or so the enemies tend to shrug off its damage. I personally think it could just do with changing its damage to some armor ignore style of damage would solve the issues with it, but your suggestion could work too. Personally I still use icewave cause it does cause some slowdown on higher levels that are hit with it, though I would make your suggestion be hitting a targeted location rather then pointblank around frost. Drop it out like one of Vaubans traps.

 

3) Have to heavily disagree with you on your proposed changes to the snowglobe here. Making it transparent would be nice, like another poster suggested so we can see through it a bit better (though I found turning off bloom makes it easier to see through snowglobes walls personally). Virtually no downsides to it? Umm... allies outside of it, or even you if you're outside of it and are the caster, can't shoot in to it. Thats a pretty hefty downside. Usually I stay inside my snowglobe on corpus/grineer defense missions in order to deal with the melee, and I avoid using it on infested. Mind I prefer rhino for infested defense missions anyway. Grineer will usually stay just outside of it and blast away at its shell if you don't use any stretch mods, save for their melee troops. It is too much of a cornerstone for defense missions, especially solo-artists like me, for it to be nerfed so heavily. And people shouldn't be using it on the bosses anyway. Thats just asking for stupidity. Most bosses have a PBAoE attack they like to slam out if you get too close and putting snowglobe around the bosses would just basically force everyone to get into the PBAoE range. Even slowed by a max rank snowglobe, the bosses will still manage to get off their PBAoE attack. Its better to use it off to provide a solid cover area/distraction area where a people hide and blast away at the boss from, and other members of the team get around behind the boss.

 

4) I actually like this proposed change to Avalanche. Yes it removes all the damage, but it again falls in line with the frozen shattering effect. I'd probably buff it a little bit more on the fragile debuff, +100%/+150%/+200% on the damage they take while being frozen, it would make it worth the 100 energy to pop in the middle of a rush of enemies. 

 

My thoughts and opinions, *drops her two cents in and wanders off*.

[LukeAura]

Hah, well, it would still be ice wave. It'd just have the added effect of lingering and being fly paper afterwards! 

If it kept it's range(2xglobe), and it's initial damage it would be like a really long but less effective/more offensive snow globe. Might develop some kind of niche in that. 

But yeah, like the cryo strips in the void. Kind of where my inspiration came from actually. But don't tell the orokin I'm stealing their ideas!! Shhh. 

[basilioss]

Snow Globe can be a life-saver of Infested missions thanks to the slowdown. 

So your one of THOSE Frost players. 

 

I agree with all of your changes otherwise though. 

 

Hint: Snow Globe =/= Good in Infested defense. 

[ChaoticVice777]

Let me list my thoughts here in order to each of your proposed suggestions for frost.

1) I have to agree with another poster about the proposed changes to the rank one ability. While yes it does freeze more people, it does effectively get weaker the more you level it up. Now yes I do agree frost's rank 1 ability needs some reworking. However I would think of it more like this. Keep the damage scale at the same rate, but like yours it scales the number of targets 1/2/3/4, duration lasting for 3/5/7/9 seconds. Now heres the key difference: Enemies who're hit with it have a shatter effect applied, the next bullet or melee attack dealing 1.5x damage to them when they're hit and unfrozen, this bonus damage ignoring armor.

2) Ice wave actually is fairly useful in its current incarnation up to a point. I find its surprising how often both infested and corpus tend to line up for me to cause mass mayhem with this ability. That said, after about level 30-ish or so the enemies tend to shrug off its damage. I personally think it could just do with changing its damage to some armor ignore style of damage would solve the issues with it, but your suggestion could work too. Personally I still use icewave cause it does cause some slowdown on higher levels that are hit with it, though I would make your suggestion be hitting a targeted location rather then pointblank around frost. Drop it out like one of Vaubans traps.

3) Have to heavily disagree with you on your proposed changes to the snowglobe here. Making it transparent would be nice, like another poster suggested so we can see through it a bit better (though I found turning off bloom makes it easier to see through snowglobes walls personally). Virtually no downsides to it? Umm... allies outside of it, or even you if you're outside of it and are the caster, can't shoot in to it. Thats a pretty hefty downside. Usually I stay inside my snowglobe on corpus/grineer defense missions in order to deal with the melee, and I avoid using it on infested. Mind I prefer rhino for infested defense missions anyway. Grineer will usually stay just outside of it and blast away at its shell if you don't use any stretch mods, save for their melee troops. It is too much of a cornerstone for defense missions, especially solo-artists like me, for it to be nerfed so heavily. And people shouldn't be using it on the bosses anyway. Thats just asking for stupidity. Most bosses have a PBAoE attack they like to slam out if you get too close and putting snowglobe around the bosses would just basically force everyone to get into the PBAoE range. Even slowed by a max rank snowglobe, the bosses will still manage to get off their PBAoE attack. Its better to use it off to provide a solid cover area/distraction area where a people hide and blast away at the boss from, and other members of the team get around behind the boss.

4) I actually like this proposed change to Avalanche. Yes it removes all the damage, but it again falls in line with the frozen shattering effect. I'd probably buff it a little bit more on the fragile debuff, +100%/+150%/+200% on the damage they take while being frozen, it would make it worth the 100 energy to pop in the middle of a rush of enemies.

My thoughts and opinions, *drops her two cents in and wanders off*.

1) Perhaps the freeze duration is too short? Maybe a buff of 2 second across the board would remove some of the complaints. I do not want to get the "Fragile" debuff on this move though. I'm expecting more CC utility, not necessarily damage utility, for 25 energy.

2) I'd rather not drop it like Vauban's Tesla (snowball, anyone?). But LukeAura's suggestion of leaving behind sounds fair as well, which representing a "Permafrost" debuff on top of the "Frostbite" debuff?

3) Allies can't shoot into the Snow Globe can hardly be called a downside to the move. I personally haven't found a situation where casting a Snow Globe caused a mission failure. The current form of Snow Globe is also good for controlling one or more targets in a given area, which means I can take care of other mobs.

I still think Snow Globe needs a nerf of energy and/or duration, even if it's a cornerstone of defense. Also, until you get to the higher waves of endless defense, I have a hard time thinking of a way to get through 25,000 damage quickly. Heck, if you want, make Snow Globe's damage cap be affected by Focus and the Squall Helm!

4) I kept the "Fragile" debuff low so that it wouldn't overtake Banshee's Sonar. Or maybe I should buff it, as the new Avalanche could be considered an inefficient version...

EDIT:

So your one of THOSE Frost players.

I agree with all of your changes otherwise though.

Hint: Snow Globe =/= Good in Infested defense.

I reiterate, Snow Globe can be a life-saver in Infested defense. I only use Snow Globe when the cryopod/artifact is being swarmed; don't discount slowdown.

Edited August 23, 2013 by ChaoticVice777

[Archistopheles]

What are the benefits/downsides of playing Frost?

 

Swag

 

This is where you lost your adult audience.

[ChaoticVice777]

This is where you lost your adult audience.

 

So using one slang term meant that I lost my adult audience. Exactly what are you classifying as an "adult audience"?

 

If you don't like the term "swag", replace it with "fashion". People like looking good; the potential for customization is high in Warframe. Ever heard of color palettes?

Edited August 23, 2013 by ChaoticVice777

[andboomgoestheydynamite]

The reason I could not give you a thumbs up was because it seems as though its a pretty big nerf to snowglobe yet you didn't really buff his other abilities to much... at all. Now I don't really think your improvement to freeze is that great (probably because I don't understand it to well) but again that's just my opinion.

[ChaoticVice777]

The reason I could not give you a thumbs up was because it seems as though its a pretty big nerf to snowglobe yet you didn't really buff his other abilities to much... at all. Now I don't really think your improvement to freeze is that great (probably because I don't understand it to well) but again that's just my opinion.

1) I nerfed Snow Globe in three ways: higher energy cost, an actual damage cap, and slowdown. I'm not sure if anyone's caught this yet, but I actually buffed Snow Globe's range. Perhaps a combination is a bit too large of a nerf, but there has to be more visible downsides to this ability even with its reputation in (Mobile) Defense.

 

2) I did buff his other abilities. With my suggestions, I was hoping to give Frost extra crowd control so that he could become the defensive counterpart of Rhino. My intention on Freeze was to create customization without mod upgrading, and most readers are criticizing that the freeze duration goes down too fast with more enemies frozen. 

[Jiala]

1) I nerfed Snow Globe in three ways: higher energy cost, an actual damage cap, and slowdown. I'm not sure if anyone's caught this yet, but I actually buffed Snow Globe's range. Perhaps a combination is a bit too large of a nerf, but there has to be more visible downsides to this ability even with its reputation in (Mobile) Defense.

 

 

Looking up the ability on the warframe wiki... no no you haven't. Base range is 10 meters at all levels, so you've cut off two meters from the highest end version of yours. Which could be called a nerf by some, as it will have less of a slow down effect, and on the grineer defend the reactor missions, snowglobe at 10 meters is already too small to completely engulf the reactor to defend it from all sides.

 

And if we actually increase the range could be called a nerf, because you want the enemies to stay outside of it shooting in, and that combined with the nerf to its slow down means the enemy grineer who're staying just outside of it shooting at you and the artifact you're protecting, are now inside of it with only a slight reduction in their damage rate.  So you've now nerfed it in 4 ways. 

 

Edit: Fix a typo. Cause I hate it when I type typonese all over a post.

 

edit 2: Added some more information I looked up on the wiki.

Edited August 24, 2013 by Jiala

[ChaoticVice777]

Actually increasing the range could be called a nerf, because you want the enemies to stay outside of it shooting in, and that combined with the nerf to its slow down means the enemy grineer who're staying just outside of it shooting at you and the artifact you're protecting, are now inside of it with only a slight reduction in their damage rate. So you've now nerfed it in 4 ways. 

 

Edit: Fix a typo. Cause I hate it when I type typonese all over a post.

 

Yeah, it does go both ways. People seem to love range on Snow Globe for some reason, which I never understood. I think I nerfed Snow Globe too heavily. The main "nerfs" (i.e. methods to balance out Snow Globe) probably involve the inclusion of an extremely high damage cap (i.e. will even last into Warframe's future end-game) instead of complete protection (Rhino, anyone?) and/or a change in energy efficiency (either through boosted energy cost or reduced duration).

Edited August 24, 2013 by ChaoticVice777

[Jiala]

Might want to double check my post, I edited in some more information that I found out after looking up the ability in question on the warframe wiki.

[Urbanspaceman]

great work! I always emphasized that those damage dealing abilities are boring and mostly worthless. U created great frosty skills that bring game depth back to warframe!

[X3Evanescence]

Got to say that I agree with most of your pointers and suggested buffs/nerfs to Frost's skills.

1. I personally do not really mind decreasing order of freeze duration with an increase of number to frozen targets, it is pretty good for CC.

2. I do not really have an opinion on this, but I can say that I agree.

3. For Snow Globe, I was pondering of a possible way to balance it out. Damage caps of any kind will simply make any skill unappealing especially in Defence where if you add a damage cap, you are still forcing Frost players to take note of the pod more and *baby sit* (no offense) the pod.

I do not disagree with you, but I want to see how the community thinks of this idea which struck me:

Snow Globe @ 75 Energy

Basically, the way this Snow Globe works is that there are 2 layers within.

The inner layer, which is presumably quite small, has complete invulnerability from external fire.

For the outer layer, we add in reduced damage from external fire, and the next part is:

Teammates from outside can shoot into the outer layer. Slow effect of the Globe will remain, range will be increased. Think of it as a Globe inside a Globe. Take note that energy cost is increased to reduce spammability of this ability. This makes placing of Snow Globes more viable in Infested and Grineer alike, since shooting through the outer Globe is possible. It also balances things out pretty nicely, in my opinion. This also makes placing of Globes more strategic. Introducing a damage cap is quite unappealing, no offense, but it is my opinion.

Thoughts?

For avalanche, your Fragile Debuff concept is a pretty interesting concept. I support that too.

[ChaoticVice777]

Looking up the ability on the warframe wiki... no no you haven't. Base range is 10 meters at all levels, so you've cut off two meters from the highest end version of yours. Which could be called a nerf by some, as it will have less of a slow down effect, and on the grineer defend the reactor missions, snowglobe at 10 meters is already too small to completely engulf the reactor to defend it from all sides.

 

And if we actually increase the range could be called a nerf, because you want the enemies to stay outside of it shooting in, and that combined with the nerf to its slow down means the enemy grineer who're staying just outside of it shooting at you and the artifact you're protecting, are now inside of it with only a slight reduction in their damage rate.  So you've now nerfed it in 4 ways. 

 

Edit: Fix a typo. Cause I hate it when I type typonese all over a post.

 

edit 2: Added some more information I looked up on the wiki.

 

Noted; I will fix that radius range error straight away. I was thinking that a maxed Snow Globe's range should be boosted to cover the entire Orokin Reactor in the Grineer Asteroid defense missions and cover most, if not all, of the cryopod and lasers in Tower III Orokin Void Defense. That should count as a reasonable range buff, no?

 

Once again, I wanted Ice Wave to induce the slowdown aspect of crowd control. I liken Snow Globe to an igloo since it's a protective shelter that can warm the inside somewhat by trapping pockets of air with snow. Overall, I didn't want Snow Globe to be that one-trick pony move; it's really too good for what it does in its current form.

 

 

Thoughts?

 

I was inspired by the "Fragile" debuff from the Ice/defensive version of the Hydraulic class of Sonny 2. It would be interesting to see other ability mechanics derived from that game, but I'm side-tracking!

 

Like I point out before, Snow Globe is basically too versatile for the energy costs. There need to be energy efficiency nerfs (through boosted costs or decreased durations) and/or damage caps. The first one is relatively easy to implement, the second one, yeah...

 

Possible revision:

 

Snow Globe (6/7/8/9) – Costs 75 energy. This ability generates two "bubbles" that shall slowdown enemies for a set (10/15/20/25 for the outside, 35/40/45/50 for the inside) percentage within a certain (5/6/7/8) meter radius for 20 seconds. The range of these "bubbles" are, respectively, a (3/3/4/5) meter range and a (7/8/9/10) meter range. The inside region gives all players protection from enemy/ally fire, and the outside region reduces enemy fire by (25/50/50/75) percent while allowing ally fire. The slowdown of the inside and outside "bubbles" stack with freeze mods and can override the slowdown of Ice Wave if recast.

 

Thoughts? If it goes through, I'll edit the OP further.

 

EDIT: Checked the radius of a default range, maxed Snow Globe in the game. It's 5 meters.

Edited August 25, 2013 by ChaoticVice777