MythBringer
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Posts posted by MythBringer
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Before you read anything that I wrote, I will repeat myself. Uncapped mods can be implemented. BUT not on weapons or warframes. They need to placed somewhere else.
A very wealthy player can manage r11-12 mods. That's the order of magnitude. A hardcore minmaxer can probably manage a r13 mod.
On polarity, this means 1 or 2 more required mod points. Would that cause a weapon with 8 polarities to not be able to handle it? No. In fact, I can't even think of a build in which i can't fit all i need in five polarities, let alone six or seven.
Tonkor build:
Sancti Tigris:
Those are two examples where you have 2 forma short from cap, and are the most popular weapons. A weapon with full polarities will give you around 15 more points to spend on the "extra uncapped mods". Which means you can put 1-2 more ranks in each mod. WHICH MEANS YOU ARE CAPPED AGAIN!! you can't level up anything else!! sry for the capslock, but I really don't like when people close their eyes to the obvious truth, which in this case is a fact, and you cannot deny it.
You are not required nor forced to do so.
Also, rest assured that you will not be put at a disadvantage if you decide not to do it because overfused mods aren't supposed to add much to the output due to diminishing returns, if that's your concern. It would be minor and not noticeable in the heat of any battle.
In fact, you will be more at a disadvantage if you do it, because you will end up with no credits and cores afterwards.
"not required nor forced to do so": lol. not gonna argue that, the obvious is always true.
"not noticeable in the heat of any battle" If it's not worth it, then why implement it? mindless grinding, again. That is why I suggested new mods, uncapped, on cosmetic armor. Adding content with out destroying the old.
Relating to new content too.... It's not fair to prevent players, that do not have hours to spend on certain missions, to not be able to fight against high level enemies.
That is why I suggested a new type of mission, that always lasts 15 minutes or so, never more, because you can choose the level which you start at. So you don't lose/waste hours in survival/defence missions.
This way, we all get quick missions, with high level enemies or low level enemies.
We all get a way to scale our damage/defensive stats, with out destroying the existing content.
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facepalm ./
so... I don't follow you. Didn't he and you want a challenge? or to you challenge is only good when you always win!?
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Well i do in fact think that slot points, polarities and potential reformas are things to take into consideration when overfusing mods and linearly add to the list of reasons of the difficulty of raising a mod beyond r10, i don't think that's an issue. Or i misinterpreted what you said.
Also, because the system isn't supposed to give much more power output over people that decided not to fuse more, no more specific content is really needed just to accomodate it. Btw that's an issue that de has (hopefully) acknowledged already indipendently if uncapped mods get implemented or not.
I cannot agree with you line of tought. If you are just suggesting "remove maximum cap from mods", so we can inifinite level them up.
But in truth you are just getting a new maximum.
Because even if you have all slots with formas, you will still be using only 60 points (not counting the extra from melee or warframe stances). So a maximum rank is still in place, but would completely unbalanced all the developers work so far.
Solution: That is why I sugested to use NEW MODS only, on cosmetic armor.
"no more specific content is really needed", that is just another thing I cannot agree. You are just adding more grinding/farming with absolutily no new content.... You just want to keep leveling up the Existing mods, to continue to play hours and hours of survival/defense/exca... etc.
Why would you say something like this?! Do you like to spend countless hours in those missions just to get minions of that high level? Cause I don't. It's a waste of time. Not to mention the high probability of host disconnecting and you get nothing..... Time is the most important aspect, and those missions sink our time. Something new needs to be done.
Once again, I am not saying it is a overall bad idea. Just pointing out what I consider as flaws in you design.
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No. If something like this could be implemented, "inifinite mods that have no maximum cap", it had to be in new mods. The current existing mods were made to have maximum cap for a reason. Not to mention that they would still be limited by their slot points and polarities... so they would never be "uncapped".
I do not discard the idea, but you didn't tought it trough. Here are some sugestions or things you should think about.
- you have no place to use an infinite scaling warframe/weapon, except on 3h+ survival/interception/defense/excavation.
- New type of mission had to be designed: a mission with simulacrum console to choose the initial lvl could fix that.
- (missions that are specifically created to use the uncaped mods) if the missions to play are exactly the same, with no changes, then nothing new is really implemented. People will get bored fast.
- The importance of each mod is also detirmined by their maximum value. For example, not every one uses vigor because it only rises 120%. but if it was uncapped, it would be become a must have, because it rises 2 defensive stats.
- A new slot for those type of uncapped mods, had to be created. In order to control, balance and scale properly, there needs to be a specific slot for this. My sugestion is make use of the unused cosmetic armor.
- Allow me to compare the only game that crossed my mind with a similar problem (scalling enemies and characters), the Diablo 3. They just kept adding content, and revised content along the way. Campaign, class sets, bountys, rifts, grifts, scalling gems, gear empower.
Do you understand my point? allowing warframes to scale, just to play survival missions, makes no sense. Something else needs to be created, in order for that to be reliable.
I tought something similar to this topic. Creation of new system, new missions, new loot system, new mods, even some possible changes to warframes. But I did not get a lot of positive feedback. Most majority of players, like the game as it is, and fear any kind of change.
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I like some of your ideas. Not all.
Drop tables, the market and missions. Those seam relevant.
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Some of the posts, are completely out of line.... Back to the original idea: Content is boring cause we are OP.
How to use the current content to our advantage, with a simple twist, if the developers implement it:
- Create a new type of mission, this type of missions always lasts 15 minutes. It can be anything at all, MD, Def, Surv, Ext, Exca.... Anything. Lasts 15 mins.
- A simulacrum console at the beggining of the mission allows you to choose the initial level of the enemies of the mission.
- No loot drops during the mission, instead it drops at the end, in a special container.
- You cannot die. You die, you lose the mission. Something must prevent you from playing like a dumb tard, rushing towards a army. Play smart.
- Bonus objectives can and will appear. If you succeed to achiev them, you get better and more loot at the end.
- Random bosses can appear in the mission too, as well as syndicate, stalker and alcolytes. Respective loot at the end too.
- New squadrons, 4 enemies, with specific elemental damage and abilities can appear.
- New leaderboards for this type of mission that never exceeds 15 minutes. Every 3 months, the top 10 players get a unique reward.
Note: Cosmetic armor should be used as real equipment with possible stats due:
-to arcanes enhancements;
-specific mods being placed on the armor, that increase defensive, offensive stats and abilities. As well as mods to give abilities to weapons. Yes, abilities, for example a sword and shield would create an obstacle, when you blocked. Glaive would create a link between the glaive and the player....
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Something else, that is not directly connected to the previous text, but has relevance!
The meta for this game needs to change from time to time.
Most games change their content with "Seasons". Warframe doesn't. For years it goes arround the Infinity CC, Endless Immunity, Endless Energy that allows you to spam abilities.
CC, Immunity and energy regenaration NEEDS TO CHANGE! CHANGE is not NURFING, its simple different game mechanics. If globes had cooldown, no one would sit behind them....
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"Have I been farming all these years, for nothing? Wasn't this game suposed to be for every one? or its just for the new players?" this is the comment that I usually see and understand.
Last but not less important. The game is now boring because "the new content is always more S#&$ to farm". I want something where I can use my OP gear:
- is either a raid similar to WoW/Wildstar/NeverWinter/ wht ever... every one has played MMOs (not a LoR raid, that place was fun the first 3 times I did it, because you spend more time dancing arround rather than fighting). Something with good mechanics, that is not just spamming blind (mirage) or Blessing/Energy (trinity)...
- OR something similar to Diablo 3, that actually as a system where scaling enemies actually work.
- OR pvp more intriguing like battefield, the new star wars, anything that gives you a large openspace to fight (The servers, to me, are an excuse. CS has community servers. That system could work for warframe too).
- and what is going to be launched in the next update?! something relating with loot, or quests, or slots, maybe some more cosmetic armor.... and a new item. gg
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As someone who's invested 40+ hours into warframe and experienced the grind, I'm going to give my own subjective opinion and say no- the grind isn't going to kill warframe.
I think that the grind we have now is acceptable
I have 1300+ hours. I don't mind that grind/farm exists in the game. What I do mind, is that the content released is just more items to acquire and level up. Once you start to get most items, you feel a sensation of waste. You have so many options to choose, but no where to use them.
If the existing grinding/farming have to exist then a define late game objective has to exist where you can use all those items.
At this moment, all of us are just farming items, like collectors junkies.
This is not only for veteran players, but also to set an objective to new payers, a new meta.
But this is just my opinion... Maybe we don 't need anything else to keep veterans busy, and set a defined objective to new players....
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Making Vacuum a passive ability in the warframe is the best option. Companions are underrated in this game because of carrier and his mod vacum.
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All it will do
is keep us busy with something. Hellmaker2004, I understand you are trying to find flaws in the scaling. But it's the enemies damage that needs to be revised, along with the possibility of diferent abilities being able to make a more enjoyable game. Besides that you are not presenting a solution yourself.
My solution gives you:
- a chance to fight enemies with the same level as you would find in a 2,3,4 even 5 hour survival;
- a chance to fight those enemies, instantly, instead of losing time waiting for them to level up;
- a chance to make use of all your cosmetic armor. By upgrading each piece with an arcane enchancement and unique mods;
- a chance to implement, use and upgrade new mods, uncapped with out max rank, that can give you new warframe abilities, new powers to weapons, or defensive powers;
- a chance to play missions where you can focus on the game objectives instead of looting during the game;
- a chance to compete among ourselfs (all Tenno) to see who can achieve the highest level mission, with possible unique rewards for the top players, every season or every year.
Aside from the "assassination raid", with improved artifical enemies, new warframe mechanics and abilities, chanlenging environments, and new loot rules.
I didn't mentioned linear scale, don 't distort my words or assume anything. I said we should also be able to scale as well. But I still don't know what you want from the game... Besides the extra inteligence on the enemies you mentioned nothing else. Think, if you do not aprove of this game having this type of scalling system, what can you suggest having implemented, as content for veteran players?
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Yes, but it wouldn't do DE good to build around the basis that players are going to leech off of other players, meaning that they shouldn't account for the fact that the new players are going to be being carried through more end-game content, because not EVERY player will.
I gave you 7 completely different options to farm. Each one with a lot of possibilities. You do not need to leech, but it's possible. Allowing the possibility and "build around the basis that players are going to leech" are things completely different. Please do not distort the meaning of my words.
It is all a question of time, like mike-rs spoken, and very well.
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This game has restrictions. If the game was made purely for pc it would be loaded with so much more.. The problem is that the engine that drives this game was created for two platforms, pc and console.. The consoles are the limitation of this game, not the developers.
I am sorry, I do not agree with you. it's pure math, if they launch to more platforms, they have more clients, may have more work to do yes, but also have the possibility to hire more people, because they are receiving more money. Nothing prevents them, from stop launching new warframes and weapons, so we can keep farming/grinding. All they need to do is re-work all the items they have done so far, Set new objectives, and make things better.
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lol. Clan is a group of friends, people who can and should share your moments with. "hapiness is only true when it's shared". You should always be rewarded for spending time with your friends. Has nothing to do with hatred. Exactly the opposite.
About the carrier, he offers nothing to the team or gameplay. Vaccum is a Farming/grinding ability which, if possible, I would rather see discarded. Since the loot could drop all at once, at the end of the mission.
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Remove immunity to damage, replace it buy damage reduction.
Implement reselience so enemies can gain immunity to that S#&$y infinite crowd control.
Revise warframe abilities, so that they have cooldowns, moments of weakness and moments of great power.
Add more abilities to all warframes, instead of launching new warframes.....
gg
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Aryonas, I agree with pretty much everything you wrote. Farming/Grinding is the biggest activity here, but I think the main problem is what to do with all the gear and warframes that you upgrade and acquire.
The game is clean, is stylish, is unique in his own way, but fails to deliver real content with a good story, that keeps you interested. For me, continuing to launch new weapons and warframes is no longer releasing "new content", the same goes for Events as the acolyte (Alad V is death, he dropped valkyr and mesa, and yet he appears in this event, makes no sense to me).
If we compare games WoW, lol, Diablo3... all games with great success. They all keep revising their content through seasons, and above all, make an effort to launch real content, for veterans. I have pretty much all weapons and warframes, what should I do with them? nothing. endless hours in survivals.... in fact, I do not advise players to upgrade a lot of weapons, it's a waste of time, you have no place to use them.
Still, my biggest disappointment is the very few of us, who keep posting in this forums asking for a change, proposing new ideas, and all our voices pass unnoticed. Silenced by the big majority because veterans are leaving
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Now added in spoiler 4:
Another example, I got bored and made an animation in blender to show how can Assassination missions/raids be "diferent" by simply messing around with the map. The duration of the entire map, is obviously longer than 10 seconds, this is just a visual example.
- In the center is the boss, the rotating piece simbolizes a laser that one shots any Tenno that gets hit, forcing them to rotate.
- The red minions on the big round wall, trigger a deadly gas/fire, that can kill Tenno. The team has to kill all red minions or use the cilinder that is rotating around the platform, to get to the big wall.
- On the platform, there are traps/doors on the ground, if any one falls in it, dies.
- The black minion tries to reach the boss, if he does reach the boss, he gets healed or deals more damage.
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The rest of your points are fair, however..
Leeching isn't exactly a good technique, it's not something that should really be practiced. The technique itself is named after a parasite for a reason
Those who care about those things, do not play in public games. It's not an exploit, or rudeness but I understand your point of view. However I was just showing all possible options, so you understand that farming platinum is not that hard.
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If you limit Frame ability's to do stuff as lower enemy damage, absorb it or deal damage how do you balance that out. You either make it to strong or to weak and eventually it will become worthless. (Unless you of course have a scaling on the ability's, scaling from enemy level.) And that is the problem with the change you proposed.
It would render all the frame powers worthless unless it has some sort of CC effect, but as you said. You also want to limit that with Diminishing return, and all that would change is that either you get better at bouncing the different CC ability's(Not shared diminishing effect between frames). Or you simply make all Frame ability's worthless at one point(CC effect share diminishing and enemies become more and more resilient the higher level they are.)
A system where you can vote to start of against higher level enemies, is not something i am against. It would be a good tool until they make the game hard by design, ratter than with artificial difficulty hidden in over scaled enemies.
But your point is to make harder content with scaling and then have special "mods" with no max rank to counter there scaling. I can't even understand that idea. All it would do is make your fight against a level 100 the same as vs a level 200 eventually.
Analogy: Lifting 10kg of weight, is not the same thing as lifting 50kg, but the exercise is the same. You grow stronger, the more you practice...
About the scalling, If the enemy can scale, then we should also be able to scale as well. It is simple math....
It is not the same thing, because if you remove the cosmetic armor with the new mods that you have been leveling up, you die or won't do any damage at all.
It is not the same thing, because other players that don't have the same items and mods that you have, cannot do the same level of missions.
I never stated that my point is to make harder content ONLY by making enemy levels scale. I mentioned that it is one of the things that can do it. Artificial Inteligence from enemies (trash) and bosses need a serious review. I mention it, several times here, the concept is so much more than "scalling enemies".....
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As far as arcanes/sortie rewards go as new players they shouldn't even be doing raids and sorties for these types of rewards, that's just pushing themselves into content they might not be necessarily ready for
That makes no sense. LoR raid can be done with 4 players, and 4 leechers. They only need to watch a video and don't screw up, the rest will win the game alone. Same goes for sorties, but any player can actually solo it, and carry 3 other players.
Slots are the only guaranteed income that can keep the warframe developers going. The trade system was implemented to allow players that do not want to spend real money on the game. When I started to play, we had no trading system. This issue has already been debated, the entire chat system, dojo and relay was developed for this purpose.
Reasons: Building a warframe takes 12h + 72h (If I am not mistaken). That gives you 3 and half days to make 20 platinum.
How to make platinum atm:
Sortie has lens, wraith parts and nheza parts. You can easly get carried by a team, you don't have to do anything besides having access to the navigation map, be carried and claim the reward (If you are smart enough, you can even call a "Taxi").
Same goes for LoR raid. You only need to know what to do, with one of the specific warframes required for the raid, and sell the arcanes.
Void: you already mentioned it, lots of parts there.
Orokin Derelict: more prime parts... and Vault mods, these mods sell very well, because they are needed for warframe builds.
Void trader: you can't sell the items you farm, sell them here. The mods bought here are valuable.
Other mods like bite, aura mods from alerts, nightmare mods, melee stances, etc...
If you still can't sell none of these, you can always sell junk. There are always ppl buying in trade chat.
Other way to do things right: Lex, Vasto, strun, boar, boltor, bronko, akbronko, dakra, bo, paris, scindo, reaper, latron, etc.... can't remember them all. Not to mention the wraith weapons too....
All the normal versions of this weapons should be made first, and deleted after reaching level 30 if you need slots, because you can have Prime/wraith versions in later game, that are better.
I am not trying to be offensive, I am just stating the obvious here, you can farm platinum in a lot of ways, new or old player. You just need to research in how to do it. If warframe developers start to give away stuff, the system colapses and they need to get it from somewhere else.
Hope it helps....
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Some things you said are true. There is a point where you cannot go any further. Even if only the scalling missions were to be implemented, and the warframe abilities were not changed.
The point you are missing is: It would still be better than the current system. Because you could instantly face high level enemies, instead of wasting 5 hours on a survival mission.
And the most important aspect of the previous lines, this is easy to implement!!! Just this, can easly be done in a week by the developers, because you are re-using stuff that already exists in the game.
Solution to the endless scaling you ask? First of all, cosmetic armor shoud allow 5 arcanes and 5 extra mods to be equiped. Arcanes can be stacked. This solution alone would help. And it's already described in the original/main post.
Is it enough?! for some time, yes. Arcanes are not easy to farm, so it would take a while to get 5 different arcanes fully upgraded.
When, and only when players start to reach that point, and I can garantee you that there are not a lot of players that can brag having 5 different arcanes at level 4, because they are boring to farm, a new solution would be needed.
Strangely, both of you mentioned it, and I don 't think you even realized it. Our damage and defenses are Maxed out, because mods have a Maximum rank level. But they don 't need to be, if an extra mod is added to a piece of cosmetic armor. Those mods have no maximum rank, and you can always increase it's rank. Defensive, Offensive and support mods. Spoiler 7....
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Hard content.... you want to throw dust to my eyes, let's discuss it then!
Tell me, in the current game as it is, what chalenge do you have that can be fun and difficult?! For a Mastery rank 17+ with most warframes and weapons fully upgraded, and KNOW what they are doing.
This is a question of Artificial Inteligence. The enemies need to be smarter, be more unpredictable. and the environment needs to force you to move arround the map, as well as MOMENTS of WEAKNESS that need to be exploited. By us, to make more damage, and by the enemy when your abilities are in Cooldown. Spoiler 3, 4 and 5 have a few sugestions, feel free to give more ideias instead of harassing the scalling of the enemies has the real hard content.
Staying in a corner, spamming vortex's, or blind in enemies when they have level 200+, is not fun either. You don't even move from your spot. The Tenno are "Ninjas" but we all carry grenade launchers, and stay in plain sight with immunity damage warframes.... We don't dodge attacks, abilities or use the map to our advantage.
The core problem, is change. No one wants radical changes because they all fear change. They rather have the game EASY, and SIMPLE so they can farm prime parts while they are watching TV.
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The scalling is there for players who desire a different chalenge... It is not, by far, the base of this concept. /facepalm.
I will repeat myself again, INFINITE Immunity damage abilities and crowd control SHOULD be nurfed!! THEY ARE BROKEN! And a new mechanic should be proposed, so out of 30 warframes, you would actually use almost all of them instead of half a dozen.
Enemies Should NOT ONE SHOT warframes. There are a lot of changes with damage reduction and obstacles in spoiler 6 and 7 to try and solve this problem! Some have brought up that 1% inifinite damage is still infinite, But it's also mentioned that the enemy type of damage should also be revised.
Spoiler 3, 4 and 5, have a few ideias in how to create better chalenges, in that particular case or example is an "Assassination raid". When you say: "Using an utterly broken scaling as a base for this is the worst possible idea." you obviously failed to grasp the purpose and content of the original post. Not to mention that you failed to propose an alternative concept for the current gamestyle, and the one proposed by me....
It's very easy to criticise, point fingers and say everything is a joke of an idea. Hard is to present alternatives, solutions, diversity and as you said yourself chalenges. DEVs can do better, yes. But so do we, as a community we failed to give good solutions and alternatives.
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Arcanes, like in LoR raid could be added.
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Once again, I am feeling like I am repeating myself over and over :p. If immunity and CC isn't reviewed, and a system of missions that you can scale the enemy level and difficulty is implemented, then all missions compositions will have always at least one of these: vauban, mirage, trinity, valkyr. That is why we proposed this change. I know it is difficult to get to a working solution, but feel free to propose other changes, besides the typical "this won't work".
The abilities are some ideias, they were not forged into to stone, and most of them are augmented mod changes. That could be a concumable btw, so players would not lose a mod slot to change their abilities. Please feel free to propose more abilities, but always remember that they need to be balanced across the entire warframes, and should give some sort of team aura, or benefict.
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Cause the CC should no longer last forever. Enemys should gain resilience to the CC.
And you are missing a few aspects, you are just deciding between Tanky vs CC frames. But there should be more ways to build good sy-energy teams. Like based on companions, invisiblity, or even type of weapons used. That is why certain changes are sugested. I really don't understand is why you rather have the old system, instead of something new, more chanlenging, and diverse.
If mirage could only blind enemys for 5 seconds, and they could never get blinded again, would you use her in LoR raid? Same goes for vauban! They are used, because they are OP, and have no weakness. They neglect all other warframes, because it would make no sense take something less efficient.
Valkyr and trinity is the same thing, they are both to OP. They neglect all other warframes because they gain immunity.
It is the current system, that does not allow any other sy-energy team besides Immunity to ALL damage and CC to succeed.
NOTE: Immunity to all damage is not tanking btw. Tanking implies use of cooldown abilities to mitigate damage, avoid certain spells or attacks so he doesn t get killed. Same goes for healing.
If you wish, you can compare other games with this one. "not taking any kind of damage" or "keeping the enemy drooling on the ground" for inifinie amounts of time needs a review.
But, you did make a good point, we could continue to get one shot, even with all that damage reduction. If that happens wouldn't it just be fairly easy to reduce the damage that the enemys are doing?! Instead of letting only a handfull of warframes rule and neglect all others? :\
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Yes, don t forget that there is a lot of information there. We had to simplify as much as possible.
Relating the 100+ to inifinite level. If something like this is implemented, a leader board can also be added, showing how far can players go, with new set of rules (which are no more 100% immunity, no heal and inifinite energy). With detailed information about what warframes were used, weapons and companions. With that feedback, from the simple leaderboards, the devs could revise certain warframe abilities and weapons.
But you are also right, there will be a point where you will not be able to stay alive, but that is the point. I have seen parties doing 4h of survival, and it was a joke, they didn t received damage, cause enemys were always in CC. With this system, you can have the same level of dificulty, but with way less time invested in it.
One of the objectives is to chalenge players to go further, but with out losing hours and hours in survivals and interceptions. And another Hot Topic out there is "Balance maps" so that all maps are rewarding and worth playing. But in this sugestion, all of the maps have the same time and the same loot. It is impossible to argue which one would be more profitable.
To those who simply don t have a lot of time (casual players) can always get their daily Valour emblem by doing a mission vs the minimum level, 100. 100% drop, and always in the same time [10-15] mins, what ever the mission is.
The cooldowns, let me disagree. Certain warframes do nothing more than just spam 1 ability (Ash, excaliber, valkyr, etc). Those long cooldown abilities are to allow a big burst of damage in small periods of time. Something that at the moment, does not exist. It would be really good for Bosses, if they are improved.
R10 Mods Can Be Made Infinitely Fusible
in General
Posted
Ok. You made up your mind that you prefer players to waste 1K R5 cores + 10K credits, or more, for 5% increases. (to those who decide to do it of course, no one is forced to).
Instead of suggesting actual new content, and something different to the game... As you wish, its your post. Hope the devs hear you.