helghastgunner
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Posts posted by helghastgunner
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23 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:
Im thinking increase its based crit damage from 2.0 to 2.5x
Increase its damage from
35 slash to 100 slash
5 impact to 0 impact
160 puncture to 200 puncture
Increase its fire rate from
1.00 to 1.07
We increase its status chance from
20% to 25%
And give it an alt fire that allows u to use it as a melee weapon with stats as...
1.0 attk speed
1.7 channelng damg
70% block
55.5 puncture
60.5 impact
Crit chance 13%
Crit multiplier 1.9
Status chance 29%
While I'll agree the Paris needs a buff, turning into a pseudo slash, takes away from the dread so.. A crit damage buff sounds okay though.
A bow....as a melee weapon? Um(trying to picture this)
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12 hours ago, tarfeef101 said:
Well there's no point talking about balance on low levels, cause my mk1 braton can handle even sortie levels... You have to consider the high level content when discussing these things. Anything you bother putting mods on will handle lower levels...
And there's a difference between balance and consistency. Snipers are less consistent than bows, but fire faster, need less time to aim since they don't have slow projectiles, and have larger magazines (except the vectis). The offset/tradeoff is better handling and fire rate to compensate for the less consistent crits.
• Well um that's one strong Braton I'll give you that
• I'm considering level 100 units, I have no statistics but I doubt a large portion of the player base play above this level range.
• Yes snipers shoot faster (not by much though) however some of your shots are essentially going to tickle your target vs consistent damage from the bow, I find it evens it out.
• Projectile speed is something you gotta practice to get accustomed to using(though they could buff it to maybe rakta level), I find outside of the arenas most enemies do not attempt to move out of the way at all so hitting is not the hardest thing to do.
Why should the trade of be something so important as consistency though? The ferrox is a weapon that makes both these categories look bad but its allowed to exist, along side Sybaris P and Dex.
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3 hours ago, tarfeef101 said:
Not if you run in a squad of CPs, and most people dealing with actual high level enemies do. And if we consider your argument, then all non-status focused weapons need massive buffs. Which is clearly crazy
How many do that, and the "actual high levels" is a mute point when the highest levels that can be fought from the start of a mission is sortie 3 units.
Also your missing the point, you said they'd (snipers) be out of balance(they won't), they'd finally be consistent in the damage they deal.
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13 hours ago, tarfeef101 said:
Then you just buffed 2 things that are already balanced, making them more powerful than everything else... Which would make this an exercise in futility.
They wouldn't be as powerful as say Tigris or akstilleto, as they'll still have to deal with damage reduction from armor.
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4 hours ago, NovusKnight said:
i disagree.
firstly it is already possible to hit 100% crit with everything except vulkar series.
it simply demands hard builds. A mix of point strike, argon scope and critical delay give you just above 100% crit on anything with 25% crit.
it sounds a lot like you just decided "lmfao I like x y and z snipers so those get a buff, F*** the snipetron". Especially since vulkars are the fast fire status + damage snipers. wouldn't be fair to get full crit.
the only thing snipers need right now is QoL useability, with most of that being fixed in the reballance on PoE, only reloads still are too.slow on half of them, especially the rubico which is a sniper version of pre buff pyrana. High damage super crit fast weapon with tiny amazing and ridiculous reload.
I vote against.
Critical delay is a terrible mod
Argon scope is not available outside trading.
No one is using 3 mods to get the crit chance to 100%
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9 hours ago, tarfeef101 said:
No. At least not as long as rivens exist with the dispositions they're currently at. Otherwise they cannibalize the space of bows entirely.
Rivens can always be adjusted you know, and if they prove to be overtaking bows, a simple crit mult buff can be done.
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1 hour ago, -N7-Leonhart said:
As a long time sniper user, I would say that I am not sure. Critical chance is effective as a headshot multiplier booster, but other than that, the fact that a weapon MUST get over 100% crit chance to be effective leaves a bad taste in my mouth. In that case, those should be called something else, not "Critical Hits". Real critical hits are not certain for every shot.
I would be happy instead if we got a higher headshot multiplier for the snipers alone, and the critical chance left as is.
Doesn't really need to have 40% base but at least 30%(and maybe 35% for unique variants)
Would your higher headshot multiplier work for other weak spots(take a Bursa's terminal on it's back as an example)?
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53 minutes ago, NDarkstar said:
My hope is that some of these will wind up in PoE or the future "open world" areas. It'd be a good place to fit them back into the ecosystem. I've seen ideas about putting the story of Warframe into a cohesive storyline that involve having players going through the events of the past as part of progression through the solar system, this would be, in my opinion, the best solution. Having the events accessible again would smooth out the player experience and not only keep the assets from being wasted as 'one off', it would also do a great deal to introduce and preserve what lore/story there is in Warframe.
I forgot to add to my previous post(calculus class and texting is a horrible idea.)
Anyways, snipers are(or should) be the kings of precision as well as accuracy (DE has finally removed scope sway so at least we got closer in accuracy).
Almost every other precision based gun in warframe have higher base crit, meaning they don't have to waste a second slot for argon scope, however snipers have to(or a good riven) and some may already need a slot for Primed fast hands.
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47 minutes ago, NDarkstar said:
That Argon Scope wasn't particularly hard to acquire. I do agree, however, it needs to make a return with all of the rest of the event mods/weapons. Even if they just wind up being in Baro's list.
Honestly it should be added to a spy vault(or somewhere) so at least its always available to everyone
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51 minutes ago, NDarkstar said:
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Zoom Mods that let you see further already exist.
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Sinister_Reach Mods that increase the effective range of weapons (and thereby falloff distances(?)) already exist.
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Argon_Scope along with Point Strike can very easily bring a sniper into red-crit territory, adding critical delay will take it even further.
I really don't think that snipers need much (if anything) more than they already have in the rework coming. Mods will fix your zoom and range, mods will make everything under the sun a beast of critical destruction.
1 No one using that
2 Eh
3 You mean that mod that only has returned once so far? Also snipers should have 35%base crit minimum anyways
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3 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:
Yeah and i forgot reload too.
Reload: 1s
Status chance: 30%
High mag snipers:
Reload: 2s
This could surely bring some appreciation to most snipers.
The lanka could get a unique treatment where you overcharge the barrel with extra 10 ammo to create a hitscan long-range thunder strike (x5 damage) with a small guaranteed electric proccing aoe of 2m and with this added im sure sniper would finally leave those dusty fodder shelves.
Sounds good
Interesting idea for Lanka as well
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On 9/25/2017 at 10:20 AM, Fallen_Echo said:
How about something less universal?
Low magsize snipers get high damage, high crit chance and damage and big punchtrought.
Example:
Sniper X
Damage: 400
magsize: 3
firerate: 1/s
50% crit chance
x3.0 crit damage
3m punchtrought
Snipers with big magazines get avarage damage, fast reload speed, fast firerate max 30% crit and high status status chance.
Example:
Sniper Y
Damage: 150
magsize: 10
firerate: 3/s
30% crit chance
x2 crit damage
50% status chance
0.5m punchtrought
This gives us a high priority target cleaner and a horde shooter. Obviously the scope sway is reduced and the hipfire accuracy nerf is removed from them.
As a vectis fan..this is lovely, though you didn't mention the status chance for low mag snipers.
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10 hours ago, Colyeses said:
Okay, let me try...
First off: What's the goal? Snipers are precision weapons built for taking down high-value targets over long distances. They are predominantly single-target weapons with low firerate and longer-than-average reload. So what needs to change?
Well, Snipers are currently very generic and not uniquely suited to their main goal. They do not break away from the general playstyle to a sufficient extent to warrant their slow firerate and reload. They're not well-equipped to take down high-value targets. Additionally, long range is hardly utilisable, as Warframe's tilesets are too cramped. More concretely, I suggest the following...
- The scope sway has to go, as it adds an unfair hindrance to snipers that other precision-oriented weapons (Opticor, Daikyu, Euphona Prime, etc.) do not suffer.
- Shot combos have to be removed. This is antithetical to Sniper gameplay, and allocating power here drags the sniper from its own unique gameplay, down into the masses, where they cannot excel.
- Add a 'scope 0' to all snipers, a scope level below the current lowest, and one that is closer to the basic level of zoom on other weapons. This would allow precision aiming at closer range and improve their versatility.
- Headshot Assist. Be it as a sniper-unique mod or just something that is included with all sniper rifles, but make enemy 'Heads' -light up- while zoomed in. This makes it much easier to discern where you have to shoot to get a headshot, as for some creatures, the 'head' isn't obvious, or hard to spot.
- Assassin Assist. Have high value targets like Eximi, Ancients, Nullifiers also get special marking on the scope. This makes it easier for players to scope out high value targets for extermination.
- Assassination capability boost. Specifically, have sniper rifles be able to punch through nullifier bubbles and ignore an eximus' resistance auras. This would make them -the- weapon of choice for mowing these critical targets down.
- Headshot benefits. Bonus base crit chance for headshots seems like a good call, allowing headshots to easily become guaranteed crits, or even orange/redcrits.
These are my suggestions for setting the Sniper rifles apart as their own unique class, oriented towards high precision, tactical play, with powerful single-target burst.
1 Yes
2 The current iteration sure, but a fast paced sniper combo can exist ( I look to Critical Ascension from bl2 as reference)
3 Sure I guess
4 As long as a player can disable it, if they aren't a fan of it.
5 Same as 4
6 Interesting idea, questioning if that'll make them a bit too strong.
7 Nah, they need a base increase more than anything to me, a higher than average weak spot multiplier could be added instead.
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18 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:
I took the idea from the borderlands series where each sniper was distinguishable from another one. My two personal favorite snipers were the ones with large mag, fast firerate and acceptable damage to clear out hordes and the hard hitting big pump-action guns to take out the big targets.
Currently the only unique snipers i can think of is the vectris and the lanka, the others are the same guns with varied stats.
Oh the things I'd do for a Lyuda in warframe..
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3 hours ago, TotallyLagging said:
Why do we always feel the need to overcomplicate things? We don't need anymore mods. You know what happens when we ask for those, we get friggin' bandaids like Harkonar Scope or Depleted Reload.
Revert accuracy changes, give them a little bit more crit chance so their TTK is consistent (we have auto rifles that have higher crit chance than most snipers ffs), give them innate punchthrough, done.
IMO, Ferrox and Opticor are basically snipers done right. Hitscan, good reload speed, good mag size, good enough crit chance, good damage, no unecessary scope, etc.
And as always there's plenty of arguments so I'll just try and address some of them :
1. I have no problem with hipfire/scope sway!
Yeah, and that mechanic also has no business existing either so it won't hurt you or anyone if that were removed right? Oh it's "logical" and "realistic" you say! Well here's the thing, I can hipfire a shotgun just fine, I can fire an LMG at full spool up, in mid-air, and have all my bullets land where I want them to be. I can hold a rocket launcher or even a BFG just fine while aiming down sight and yet the moment I touch snipers I have friggin' Parkinson's. That's right, the moment the bio-mechanical space zombie robot holds a gun with slightly longer barrel and a scope it has the physical capabilities of an 80 year old man.
Point is, why do a weapon category that needs accuracy the most have to have these shoddy mechanics while others don't? We want consistency. Either everything has sway/hipfire inaccuracy or they don't. Simple as that. It doesn't add anything to snipers. It doesn't add "challenge" or """skill floor""", it's just annoying.
2. I do just fine with snipers.
Well that's good for you my man! But that doesn't mean they don't deserve changes, or that your damage numbers matter because they don't. This is also addressing the people that says "Snipers don't do damage" because that's clearly false, they have always dealt huge numbers of damage. They need to headshot and crit, that's what snipers are for. The problem with snipers are their badly implemented mechanics that were added with the rework.
Combo dropping as soon as you missed instead of decaying? Certain weapons being unable to even use the combo because of their reload speed (Rubico) without the need of a bandaid mod (Harkonar Scope)? Your bullets outright missing even while scoped because of a bug? All of those are the actual problem with snipers. Stat-wise the only thing snipers need are punchthrough and some more crit chance. And I'm not asking for 50% base crit chance and turn them to hitscan bows here, 35% is enough. 87.5% with Point Strike, with the option of going past 100% with Argon Scope/Rivens sounds pretty fair to me.
And please, don't start comparing numbers on warframe builder either, paper DPS means absolutely jack when we're talking about weapon mechanics. You know how people just dump Vile Acceleration on anything, bumping up the damage so they can get their precious "Most popular weapon build" title on wfbuilder? That kinda thing?
That Lanka vs. Tigris P is just silly. They're 2 different weapons that takes advantage of different mechanics. I mean come on, Lanka not having charged attack or scope bonuses ticked? And again, paper dps means jack, status Tigris P is good because of the slash procs and 100% proc rate. You try popping a level 120 Napalm with 2 Riven-less Lanka shots and without the help of Warframe abilities and I'll gift you a potato of your choice right here and now.
This guy, have a +1
I'm happy someone else brought up consistency, it's IMO one of the biggest negative to them (more so than the hip-fire or scope sway to me)
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11 hours ago, VadiseReikaz said:
I still fail to understand why people bring all these points up as if these rifles were horrible and neigh worthless. Sniper rifles have a very specific use, they do not perform against more than a handful of targets at once, that's just now they work. Low fire rate, high accuracy, high damage per shot weapons.
Comparisons with bows are brought up, bows are not sniper rifles, bows have travel time, and you have to take arrow arc into account. They can work on long distances but they are different beasts altogether. I am not a bow person, but I agree, bows can be effective at all ranges if you know how to compensate for travel time and drop. Sniper rifles here are hitscan, minus the Lanka (Point Strike + Critical Delay + flat 20% critical chance from lowest zoom level gives you a guaranteed crit by the way, and you can red crit if you zoom farther in, and if you have Argon Scope, even better).
If you are firing from a sniping distance it does not matter if your weapon is silent or not, they cant hear it from that range, however enemies will get alerted anyway from seeing a corpse but will not immediately know where you are, so chaining sniper combos is not difficult (unless your squaddies are fighting them up close, in which case they will be fully alerted and erratic anyway).
Snipetron Vandal and Lanka have a hefty innate punch through, yes you will need to spend a metal auger or shred on other rifles, and yes, I agree it would be nice that all sniper rifles have at least 1m punch through out of the box.
All Sniper Rifles except the Vulkar family have 25% base crit chance, which you can bring up to 74.5% with the point strike and critical delay mix, coupled with multishot, you are almost guaranteed to crit at least with one of the two shots. And speaking of multishot, it counts towards your sniper combo as well, so you pretty much are in the first stage of sniper combo almost right out of the gate.
So, what is why I believe sniper rifles are fine for the most part. Yes, punch through on all of them would be nice, maybe a smidge higher base crit chance, or maybe make Argon Scope obtainable again. If you want a powerful sniper rifle that crits every time and does a bucketload of damage every time, Lanka is the thing you want. If you want the comfort of hitscan, a decent damage output and acceptable crit chances, the rest of the rifles are there for the more accessible sniper flavor.
If you want to hit hard at close and distant ranges, get the dread or daikyu, those are pretty beefy but you will need to get used to travel and drop. and dread is a crit beast for those that care about that over everything else.
I am sorry for the long rant, but I felt I needed to throw it out there.
• You shouldn't use Critical delay
• We shouldn't have to use 2 crit mods to get them to have a decent crit rate as well
They're okay but not fine, I can tell you that.
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10 hours ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:
They are not fine.
1 - Most of then can't really hit 100% crit chance that easyly and have average crit multipliers. For a single target weapon it's bad, especially since bows get much higher crits and can hit red crit territory with a good riven. Even with a riven ,it's hard to break 100% crit chance.
2 - Most of the snipers are slow to fire and slow to reload. Compare to bows which you don't have to reload and that get a 2X speed buff on speed mods... And it feels unfair.
3 - They are not silenced, meaning unless you waste a mod slot to silence it, it will alert enemies and make future headshots harder... Once again, bows are silent, hence you're not wasting a mod slot for this.
4 - They aren't that good at status either ,since they have meh base status and their low rate of fire make them bad at proccing multiple statuses.
5 - Their combo counter is mostly too short to be really useful in most combat situations, some of them making harkonan scope mandatory to even use combos since the reload on these is too long.
6 - Most of the snipers have terrible scoped sway when fully zoomed, making it even harder to hit a target far away (which is arguably the only real niche a sniper has since it's outclassed by bows at medium to somewhat long range anyway). And too much zoom when up close, making them essentially bad for both close and long range. Add the fact many snipers have bad looking / hard to read scopes, and you get precise aiming that's not precise and hard headshots to pull off.
7 - Their base damage is not even all that great. It's not bad, but for a precision weapon supposed to oneshot, there are tons of other weapon types that deal more damage per shot, making all these drawbacks seem unfair.
1 YES
2 That's..kinda expected though, similar to bows who have projectile speed and has to reload after every shot.
3 I guess, eh this never really bothered me.
4 Test out viral,I pretty much use that for all missions when using the vectis.
5 Yes to this as well
6 Not to mention horrible hip fire. I also only use the vectis family because of the scope view.
7 Well those other weapons( I assume you're talking about launchers and shotguns) do have there own downsides, the first can kill you and the latter has falloff.
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21 hours ago, (PS4)The_Cool-King1 said:
People, do snipers need a huge buff? I mean, this game is about killing as many enemies as fast, and efficient, as possible. If a sniper struggles to kill even ONE enemy on high levels, do they become worthless? The combo counter takes too long to fill up, and when you miss once, it restarts! The only decent snipers (imo) are the Vectis Prime and the superior Lanka. Snipers only become viable if certain warframe abilities are used, but sometimes I wanna take other warframes on tier 3 sorties and beyond. #MakeSnipersAThingForOnce
Are they worthless? Nah
In need for a massive shotgun like buff? Nope
Though they do need tweaks and QoL changes tho
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O.o sniper changes
Well this is interesting
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4 hours ago, -N7-Leonhart said:
I hope they make them powerful, but not easy. The last thing I want is to see everyone running around with snipers like they do with Tigris P.
Doubtful, snipers will still require good aim, reflexes etc from the player.
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3 hours ago, Azamagon said:
- Latron has 2,4 (which is honestly too long too)
- Not needed. Base damage values was never really an issue, the problem was, due to their high critreliance, the inconsistency of damage. A headshot non-crit versus crit is absolutely MASSIVE.
- Once again, not needed, really. If sniper rifles could reliably crit with Point Strike alone, they'd be more than good enough, damagewise.
If you're interested, I made this thread about semiutos and sniper rifles, you might like it:
• Aah my bad, its been a while since I used the old latron
•Oh ik damage isn't the issue, but was thinking of the increase that 1.5x brings to say the vectis(standard) helps it to keep up.
•Hmm well most are pretty forgettable so agreed.
Ik of that thread, I believe I commented in it, you have good ideas circulating within it though.
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9 hours ago, Azamagon said:
Scope sway is just one of many issues (albeit one of the more annoying ones):
- Scope sway
- Unreliable killing potential (due to mediumhigh crit chances)
- Long reloadtimes AND slow RoF, despite a lot of them not having innate multikilling capabilities (i.e. punchthrough), thus they are horrible for the general gameplay of Warframe, which is mainly a hordeshooter.
- Scope bonuses - Scopes are utility meant for long range aiming QoL, not for power
- Combo bonus. As @Ninjaboy00 put it; " combo counters are actually counter intuitive to a sniper, as a sniper's role is to dump as much damage into a single shot right off the bat, not build up their damage over several shots"
So, what could be done to make them fit without relying on the PoE-map?
- Remove scope sway. If for some reason being needed in Conclave, fine. But leave it out of PvE content.
- Increase critchances to be moddable into 100% critchance with Point Strike alone (i.e. 40% minimum base critchance), at least for all the upgraded variant weapons (Primes, Wraiths, Vandals etc).
- Cut down a bit on the extreme reloadtimes (not longer than 2,5 seconds on ANY Sniper), and give at least small amounts of punchthrough to all Snipers. The Lanka and Snipetrons should still keep their edge with very high PT, but having 0 PT on the other Snipers is just not right either.
- Remove all scope bonuses. Zooming should be a utility, as it's meant to be.
- Remove combo bonuses. It's an unfitting mechanic for Snipers. Considering the reliable critchances, Snipers would still be fine damagewise.
Answering to your suggestions:
• Yes
• YES
• A look at latron p would be necessary as well, as I believe it has 2.6 or 2.7 not sure.
•Hmm, are you looking to add some of the benefits to the weapon's base stats as well?
•It's probably easier to scrap it and add base damage to compensate for the lost in damage per shot, I guess.
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7 hours ago, -N7-Leonhart said:
You are far to set on the 100% crit chance thing. How about crit weapons that don't have 100% crit per default like the Soma or Latron P? Are they unusable because of that?
And ofc, the Rivens are not as devilish as you make them out to be. The way I see it, you now have exactly 2 choices: you don't use the Rivens and clear the path for those that do, OR take the matters into your own hands and get one by any means you have available (extremely easy though). After you get one, rolling it to have at least one of the +damage, +CC, +CD, +muiltishot is a very trivial matter. The complicated part is to make it have 3 of those at the same time
• Soma is an automatic (who ironically has 5% more crit) combining that plus dual status corrosive it melts heavier units
• Latron yes actually, its been power creep (hello future Sybaris P)
Again every not crit shot hurts, that's why I brought up the bow comparison
That's what I do actually, I don't use then and leave most veiled.
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2 hours ago, -N7-Leonhart said:
You are misunderstanding something with the Combo Counters. It takes very little or nothing at all to get at least 1.5x damage going.Most of my experience is with Vulkar and Rubico. For example, a single shot (with multishot) on target will already get going the 1.5x multiplier, which means you will be doing bonus damage on your first shot already. Not that much until 2x either, so it's extremely potent. And this is total damage boost, so if you were criting for 150k, now you will crit for 300k.
Not that the scope bonuses are anything to scoff at. I never zoom in with any of them, but even the default bonuses are a good increase if you want to measure their potential.
Rivens are, how should I say it, amazing only if you want to stick with the weapon, like me, and not taking it out for a few kills and never touch it again. As it so happens, the Rivens for the snipers happen to be quite cheap as well. Getting a good one or a bad one and then roll something good, is basically no effort at all. But this only works if you are willing to invest anything into the weapon.
• Yes for those two, however vectis p requires 5 hits, that's more than what its magazine can hold and has to deal with 3s (or 2 due to reload). You keep bringing the damage potential when I already said damage wise they are fine, the main problem(well before U18) was crit chances.
• Not really they are additive, only the Lanka's zoom(and maybe rubico)really has a noticeable effect.
• After 13 forma, 2 catalyst and farming the prime variant( I use both variants) I think I've invested enough into them. I don't see why I gotta play the slot machine or buy one, when the least that can be done is 10% more crit(heck they can keep all the unnecessary mechanics added but add that 10%)
A logic view to snipers
in General
Posted
Could be 35% for normal variants, 40% for unique. They deserve to actually be precise without bandaid/specific pet and or frame/ riven