Hiirios
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Posts posted by Hiirios
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vor 1 Minute schrieb SordidDreams:
What part of "the game gives zero indication of how hard the lich content is going to get" did you not understand?
what do you think normal people do when they have something they can't do in an mmo? they farm until they can.
you only killed one lich so i have no idea how much you know. even after creating a lich it does nothing until you run it's missions. so there is nothing to loose.
nothing speaks against farming until you can do something.
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vor 1 Minute schrieb SordidDreams:
That's easier said than done, given that lich larvae spawn in level 20+ missions and the game gives zero indication of just how hard the lich content is going to get. Imagine being a newb making your way through the star chart, you spawn a lich because you don't know better because the game never explain anything, and now you're stuck with it until you can comfortably do level 100 content? And that's your advice, to just keep trucking along for who knows how many months until you're finally able to take that thing down? You're even more out of touch than DE.
yeah because it's so hard not to run a kuva lich mission when choosing missions instead of trying to get some mods first
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vor 2 Minuten schrieb SordidDreams:
So you agree with me that people shouldn't attack liches and make things impossible to handle for themselves? That's what I've been saying all along, good to see you come around.
again you are not able to see the big picture. if people can't handle things they should get help (play public). if they still can't they should leave all of this for later and farm something to make it easier.
and you know i mean that people shouldn't play lich mission, ANY lich mission if they can't handle it. just stay out of the system until you're ready.
i guess someone like you who only killed 1 lich and then left it all doesn't understand much about it
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vor 2 Minuten schrieb SordidDreams:
Quit being selfish and demanding that other people screw themselves over for your benefit. If you want a guaranteed shot at your own lich, play solo. It's that simple.
if people can't handle it they shouldn't do it. it's that easy. all you know is saying selfish while admitting you don't even engage in the lich system.
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vor 4 Minuten schrieb SordidDreams:
As I said, presumably the host can handle whatever level they've made their lich missions.
that is just a guess from you. you say it yourself that some people are not ready to kill their liches or do the missions when they are too high. you can not be sure wether they can handle it or not no matter what you say..
vor 6 Minuten schrieb SordidDreams:As I said, by fighting your lich you make your future lich missions much harder for yourself. As I said, asking people to do that to themselves just so you can maybe get your measly ten murmurs is selfish.
vor 8 Minuten schrieb SordidDreams:As I said, yes, but there's no reason to make it harder for yourself earlier than necessary.
this also isn't really true the only thing that becomes harder is the fight in itself. when you play public you are more like to join others and these missions can be either ~60 or 100+ it's just random what you get. even if you are the host it's pretty likely other join fast and are a big help
vor 9 Minuten schrieb SordidDreams:As I said, maybe because you listened to selfish people, attacked your lich, and now you're stuck with high-level missions that you're unready for?
why would they be selfhish? they just want their own kuva liches to spawn and maybe they also can't handle it solo but you're not letting that happen.
this is why you play public to get help with missions. and you can't tell me that complete noobs just stranded in a 100+ lich mission. it's warframe it's not that hard. and if it's overall to hard you should get some mods beforehand and make it easier. it's not like you're always without mods like when you start the gamevor 12 Minuten schrieb SordidDreams:As I said, if you want a guaranteed confrontation with your lich, then play solo. It's pretty easy to not demand that others screw themselves over for your benefit.
maybe there are people who can't handle it solo so they make sure the lich spawns in the next mission and go public. but then the lich doesn't spawn over and over because people don't fight theirs.
the only arguements for leaving the lich is either "it's too hard" or "the lich spawns thralls". both are valid.
but why play something you are not equiped for and then whine it's too hard? just do a bit farming beforehand for some mods or so and you're good. also this is warframe it's not like level 100 enemies are too hard. most people handle them easily.
as for the efficiency of thralls and murmurs. it's probably more efficient to see if the lich spawns in the next mission too. but why would you do it in public where other people would like to fight their lich. just play solo in the level ~60 range until you know the mods you need and then. you could also get a team with others who would like to run like that but most people in public would like to fight their lich because everyone still needs to figure out the order of the mods and for that you need to fight the lich.
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Gerade eben schrieb SordidDreams:
There doesn't seem to be a lot of point to continuing this discussion. I keep telling you why you're wrong, but you just keep repeating the same arguments that I literally just refuted.
all you said was wait till you figure out the 3 mods and it's hard too hard for some people when the lich is too high level. but i guess you can't actually see the points of others.
in short:
1. if you play in public missions you have no idea what level it'll be or wether the host can actually handle it. the point of playing public is to get help from others.
2. by not fighting/killing your lich when he spawns you prevent other liches to spawn. liches which could've been posibly killed in the mission or give a big hint toward the the 3 mods others need to use or the order of them. even though the needlessly dieing doesn't feel good
3. the lich will level up anyway because you can't be sure about the order of the 3 mods even if you know which mods.
4. if you run public it becomes pretty easy to deal with liches even if you are not that good equiped.
why would you run a difficult mission if you are not able to anyway? maybe you should at least try to get better mods befor.5. if you want to run the ~60 mission then play solo. it's pretty easy and you do not hinder others from confronting their lich and once you know your 3 mods you can change to public and kill your lich with the rest of the group.
6. it's a pain to know your lich would've spawned and you were close to killing him or actually could've done so but because someone doesn't fight their lich yours doesn't spawn.
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vor 1 Minute schrieb SordidDreams:
Yes, but as I said, there's no reason to make it hard for yourself earlier than necessary.
Yes, but as I said, the host can presumably handle whatever level they've made their lich missions.
Yes, but as I said, if you want a guaranteed chance to kill your lich, that is easily accomplished by playing solo.
but it will get hard anyway andif you play public you can never be sure that the level will not be over 100.
i just gave you an exsample of a host probably not being able to handle it. what would you do then? leave them alone or at least try to help?
so when the level gets higher because you figured out the mods but not the order THEN you should go solo. this is complete backwards.
this whole avoid level 100+ is a complete non-arguement because it's never guaranteed that a publich mission will not reach that level. if you play public you are most likely to join a mission anyway so leveling the lich doesn't do much apart from making the fight a bit easier. all of this is also a loss for others who would like their lich to spawn and figure out the order of the mods. here andexsample for you: you lich is level 3 since you tried the 3 mods before and now figured out the order and it's about to spawn in the next mission. but you are unsure wether you can kill it or not so you go into a public mission and another lich spawns but the person who it belongs to doesn't kill it. so you join another mission for thesame thing to happen again. your lich was guaranteed to spawn and now you've run mission just to get more or less nothing. the same thing will hapen over and over while you know the 2 or 3 mods but still need to figure out the order but you can't because your lich never spawn thanks to that on person in the group.
vor 14 Minuten schrieb SneakyErvin:No, that simply isnt efficient. You keep the lich for aslong as you are in the mission, then you run out. Waiting for liches on end is a waste of efficiency and time in more than one way since you rob yourself of the chance for extra spawns in the coming missions and you slow down the current one aswell.
Running missions as fast as possible for regular thralls and whatever extras spawn is the efficient way of doing it and it works even in pugs.
and while your lich is there no other can spawn and people probably loose a chance to kill the lich in the mission and some after that if they get in the same group with you again. look at the exsample above.
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Gerade eben schrieb SordidDreams:
Again, public missions are fine because the host can presumably handle whatever level they've made their missions. But by leveling up the lich beyond what a player is able to handle, that player will make it impossible for themselves to go solo even if they wanted to, leaving them completely dependent on others for progress. Demanding that other people do that to themselves just so you can maybe get your measly ten murmurs from your lich is extremely selfish.
this does not make sence because the lich will level up anyway even if you know all 3 mods since you don't know the order of them so sooner or later the lich will be higher even if they don't want it. so what will happen if the people host a mission at that point?
and if you don't host you can not be sure wether the people already in the mission can handle it.
it's also not only about the murmurs. what if i'm already able to kill my lich and he would've spawned since his bar is full just to see that someone is ignoring his and the mission too was for nothing. even if i'm not able to kill it i would like to figure out in which order i have to place my mods so it doesn't take forever.
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vor 4 Minuten schrieb SordidDreams:
If jumping to conclusions was an olympic sport, you'd have gold in the bag.
talking about being out of arguements, huh?
it's actually a good solution that people who can not handle the high level mission to stay out of them. and then once they want to get rid of the lich they can go join the rest and can get rid of them with the help of other people.
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vor 1 Minute schrieb SneakyErvin:
What are you even talking about? Keeping your lich alive is the only thing that your lich can do to benefit the team in getting more murmurs. Dying to him or killing him will bring nothing extra to the group. The owner of the lich will get the value of 10x thralls, that is it. But those 10x thralls are obtained just as easily by keeping him there, so he spawns more regularly in future missions.
Killing the lich itself isnt the actual problem, they arent hard. Trying to end him or getting ended yourself if the problem, until you have all 3 mods unlocked. That is because he will disappear for while after getting interacted with.
you realise that there is a cap to how many thralls the lich can make when he spawns right? so it would be the best to wait until this point is reached and do the same with the next lich.
vor 4 Minuten schrieb SordidDreams:Oh, I see you've run out of arguments, so you're making this personal. FYI I don't run any lich missions at all after getting rid of my first and so far only lich, since I refuse to engage with this BS system.
Of course it's meant to be difficult, but the whole point of difficult games is for players to find ways of beating them as easily as possible. Leveling up the lich gives zero benefit and only slows you down in the future, so it's just plain stupid to do it, and selfish to demand that others do it. If there was some upside to it, like for instance if murmur gain was dependent on lich level (so a level 5 lich = 5 murmurs per thrall), it would be a different story. But it isn't.
then why would you argue the whole time when you don't engage with the system?
and again if people don't want to run the level 100 lich missions then public missions is not really something where they should be since it's unclear what level the mission will be until you join. not to mention that it's pretty easy to get through as a team even with that level.
but it's a really good idea to increase the murmur gain per lich level.
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vor 1 Minute schrieb Test-995:
But if it hitting that point, it's almost always after the completion of mission objective, thus killing that lich doesn't really help spawn for others.
This is why i said practically, not actually.
there is a chance to spawn another one even when the mission is completed. and yes fighting him gives extra murmurs so it's always good to fight him though it is ok to wait and let him convert enemies.
and yes there is a cap to it. i do not have the number but i know there is.
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vor 3 Minuten schrieb SordidDreams:
I guess that depends on whether the host can handle it and carry the newb. If the host has stupidly leveled the lich beyond a point where they can do that, then yeah, I guess the only option for the newb would be to leave again. Yet another flaw in the system, I guess.
you do realise that the lich system is actually meant to be dificult right? if you're not able to run it then don't. you expect that others carry you through the mission and can't even consider fighting your lich and let them get more murmurs? talk about being selfish. also this game is warframe level 100 enemies are not as hard as many say.
btw have you considered that people also join your team and can help you with it? that is why it's public so people can help eachother.
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Gerade eben schrieb SneakyErvin:
Or you could take your own advice.
And dying to his lich is screwing over the mission more, since you get less thralls, so less chances at relics aswell. There is very little reason to use your mods before you unlock the order, even if you do own them all it is barely worth it due to the lich not appearing in future missions etc.
it's totally ok to wait till the lich converts the enemies around it but it's a hinderance if you ignore it even afterwards, especially if others would like to spawn their lich
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vor 2 Minuten schrieb SordidDreams:
Sure the lich will level up eventually anyway, but there's no need to make it harder for yourself earlier than necessary. And hey, if you like to run hard content and kill the lich every time, you can try to run solo instead.
you actually only can be sure that the mission will be 60-80 if you solo since you are not always the host of the missions so the whole "easier/difficult" thing is just dumb. will you also leave the mission when you join and see that it's around level 100?
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vor 5 Minuten schrieb SordidDreams:
I already explained why it's only good for you, not for the person doing it. Do try to keep up. As for being unable to progress your own lich, that is easily solved by, you guessed it, playing solo.
you talk as if it's guaranteed that you only run 60-80 mission when you run in public but that is not the case. looking to the fact that the lich will level up no matter what you do if you don't get the order of your 3 needed mods directly on the first try. but if you like to run easier content and not screwing other your teammates you could try to run solo instead.
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vor 1 Minute schrieb SordidDreams:
What part of "quit being selfish" did you not understand? Honestly, some people...
maybe it's because that killing the lich or at least fighting him is good for the whole group. and when you talk about being selfish then at least try to see the point that some people activly hinder people from progressing with their kuva lich
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vor 2 Minuten schrieb JackHargreav:
So you would make me kill myself just because I needed help with one or two missions.
tbh. yes.
the death not really a problem as the only thing that actually happens is that the lich levels up, which it will do anyway since you don't know the order of the 3 mods and you have to guess it. not to mention that it's not a bit problem when you runin a squad since you are most likely to breese through missions as a group.
AND it allows other people to spawn their lich which they could fight so you gain murmurs from it.
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vor 24 Minuten schrieb Xpo.vos:
No. YOU want to do something very specific eg. kill YOUR lich. That's all on YOU. Which means YOU get a squad together.
I would rather not screw myself over so others can progress over my corpse. Because that is what you are asking of people. "Hi please kill yourself so I can benefit."
And as a side note: It's not a Kuva Lich mission, it's a mission where Thralls a guaranteed to spawn and a Lich might spawn. That's like calling every random mission a "Stalker Mission".
this can be turned around however much one like. either you die and the lich levels or therest of the group misses out on progress and possible kills/converts. and yes in this case i'm on my own side and side with my progress.
the system is S#&$ as it is now and we can only wait until DE "fixes" it.
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vor 10 Minuten schrieb Xpo.vos:
As for people who are on the final stretch of their lich? Get a dedicated squad. Just like Eidolon hunts. You wanna kill 5x3 Eidolons? Get a dedicated squad. You want to kill Liches? Get a dedicated squad. Stack the deck in your favour.
And leave me to not die to a backwards game mechanic.
the same could be said for those you want to ignore a kuva lich in a kuva lich mission.
i would like to have have an actual feature that despawns liches that are ignored but until DE makes something like that we have towait and see.
vor 11 Minuten schrieb WhiteMarker:So you want to tell people what they should do, but you don't want to be told what you should do?
Flawless mindset.so you would rather ruin the fun and progress of others by going in a kuva lich mission and ignore your KUVA LICH. yeah that's way better.
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vor 13 Minuten schrieb Xpo.vos:
How about you take up your grievances with DE and ask them to design a system that's actually entertaining to engage with? Because I don't find a roulette wheel that kills me if I don't hit the right number not very interesting.
So yeah, I will ignore my lich if all I can gain from it is some progress, a death and a punishment in difficulty. Because the current iteration of the Lich system is arse.
Literally "don't hate the player, hate the game".
then why are you playing the lich missions? even if you figure out all 3 mods you can not be sure about the right order. in the worst case it would take 5 times to guess the order anyway andthen the lich is level 5. not to mention that you run all extra mission after figuring out the mods just to gain nothing extra from it.
yeah the lich system is too much rng and no one likes to die but why would you ruin the chances of other people confronting and maybe even killing/converting the lich when you do something that you don't seem to enjoy?
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vor 22 Stunden schrieb JaviiMii:
Serious question for those who say "just kill the Lich to find out which mod is the 1st/2nd/3rd one" (be it with or without murmurs). - Does you Lich spawn that often that you can actually do it that way? - Cause for me no Lich has ever spawned without being Enraged to the max. - And that takes 4-5 missions to happen.
Also, if it's all about killing your Lich for you and it's not hard for you to do... why aren't you just soloing the missions when the Lich is Enraged and almost guaranteed to show up?
it's far more efficient to try and trial and error it.
my first lich is the best exsample for this as i killed him the second time it appeared. i figured out the first mods in my first encounter and while killing thralls i figured our another mod which i put into my second slot while having a random 3rd mods. these 3 mods were the correct and in the correct order.
it's pretty much rng but it it way faster than just killing thralls.
not to mention that there is no way to be sure in which order you have to place the 3 mods even if you know all of them. and the lich only spawns when enraged which only happens when you run lich missions meaning the thralls killed AFTER you already know the 3 mods gets you nothing and the lich gets stronger anyway because of this.
the biggest thing for fighting the lich is that the liches of other persons could appear after the lich is gone and maybe someone knows the correct order of mods and his lich is enraged so it would've spawned. it also gives extra murmurs to fight it. not fighting is basically hindering yourself and others from progressing especially if you have no mods to begin with as you have to farm them all anyway.
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vor 3 Minuten schrieb WhiteMarker:
Or maybe, crazy idea: If you want your Lich to spawn, go play solo. No one will hinder you there.
why would you run lich missions when you are not even intend to face him?
yes, you can get all murmurs first but even then you have to trial and error to guess the right combination. so either way it's not 100% sure that you kill it when you only know the 3 mods
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vor 2 Minuten schrieb JackHargreav:
I do as I please.
If I don't have the mods yet I won't attack the lich. It's that simple.
so you would actively hinder other people in their progress because you haven't gotten the mods beforehand?
i do understand that a level 5 lich can be a problem and all but it's just way more likely that you figure some of the mods out by trying to kill him as it either rules out some mods or you could actually find out a mod. so there is not really much that hinders you from fighting it. it also grands murmurs when you fight it so that is also a point for it
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i can understand if you want to farm thralls especially since they spawn or are converted around the lich. but the thing is that many ignore them too and just do the mission objective and run to extract. not to mention that the thralls around the lich stop spawning after some time and the lich is just thereandstopping other liches from spawning.
the problem is that i (like many others) would like to have my lich spawn and have a chance to kill it or get the murmurs for trying to.thralls farm = ok
ignoring everything around the lich including thralls and activly hindering other peoples liches to spawn when they want to try their luck with it = not oki had it happen multiple times now that i knew the order of my 3 mods and just waited for my lich to spawn just for another to spawn and be ignored while i think "my lich would've spawned in this mission. now i have to wait all because of the one arse who runs to extract while us other 3 are here fighting and would like to kill our lich."
the best way to solve it would be giving the lich a timer until he despawns when he is ignored by the person who it belongs to or something like this. but i have no idea if de would add a feature like that
Other players not engaging their lichs blocking other lich spawns
in General Discussion
Posted
warframe is basically working on grinding and if you don't grind you can't get anything done. that's it. you also don't need anything from the kuva lich missions since it's the same you get from normal missions.
you do realise that it's only one planet you get stolen from when you don't engage with the kuva lich. it's also one tenth of recources. what you need are mods and most mods can be farmed everywhere. not to mention next to no mods get actually stolen.
you also make it sound that level 100 enemies are the hardest thing ever. it's warframe. it's not really hard.
DE doesn't expect you to go 5h into survival but just do a normal mission with a higher level and maybe one enemy who can be somewhat difficult. just use something like excal, wisp for blinding the lich and it will do next to nothing. saryn and octavia can just put dmg on it and leave it. other just tank it. it's not that hard.
also why would anyone in ANY game do something that is way above their level? it's that simple you either can do it or not. if not get some mods maybe another frame or weapon and that's it. you don't have to ruin the spawn of liches for others because you can't do it and don't want to farm until you can.