neKroMancer
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Posts posted by neKroMancer
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They did before and they spoke before about wanting to add something like that through a new type of thing or something in the future.
Regardless the game as always have "getting the same things over and over again"
Its. a. loot. game.
Insult loot games or generalize (lootclones? Really? The games are very different and you generalize them by how they handle loot?) them all you want, but people love them for a reason. Sorry if it isn't for you. But honestly you should just leave now because, again, Warframe is a loot game. It will embrace more of those philosophies sooner than part with them.
I agree, Warframe is a loot-based game and keeping a static loot design means player can hunt less loot - therefore less fun finding loot.
It's pretty much like finding "oh, another redirection" vs "redirection with chance of thorn damage? Nice!"
I think that there are two ways to handle it.
1. The core stat of the mod (% of shield/damage increase) should be different but the randomized nature of prefix/suffix should be the key to making them different. Maximum value of randomized stat should be shown to inform player that how much can they wring out of that mod, just to be fair.
2. Make a complete randomization similar to preU7 mod system but with weighted value of each property. We don't have to bother finding with 200% damage increase + 200% multishot mod because it doesn't exist. You should get either 10% damage with 90% MS or 90% damage with 10%MS (imaginary number just to make the point). There is no best mod, just the one that you feel comfortable.
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I have to say that I disagree with Scott's response about bandaid mods. There is no reason for these action-oriented mods like handspring to exist solely to allow player to recover from stun/knockdown. We can reflect damage with melee using an input from KB/M then why we can't use the same method with handspring?
Just change handspring into automated response and allow player to recover themselves like 'chance to block' mods.
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"Legendary mods with randomized properties" While legendary mods would be great randomizing any more parts of this game sounds absolutely terrible
This is pretty unfounded speculation since many games use this system to make loot different and still successful in term of gameplay. Take a quick look at PoE, Diablo, and other ARPGs - they all have this system in place to make loot more varied and interesting.
If it's a good and proven concept, why not embrace it instead of pushing it away?
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I don't really mind mod quality difference being implemented into the game. TBH, all ARPG have this mechanic to incentivize playing in higher level - harder enemy = better loot isn't a strange concept.
Right now there is lack of loot progression that makes player, both old and new, frustrate. Player hunts for certain rare/essential mods without any more common counterpart is a part of the frustration. This loot progression should solve this problem by introducing common/uncommon version of essential/rare mods in lower level stage as a part of introduction to the game. New players can get these mods faster and see the glimpse of what the game has to offer faster without venturing into harder stage (that they are not prepared to fight without these mods). As long as we get better quality mods fightin harder enemies, I don't see the problem with it.
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How do i get plat without paying?
You got to farm for prime parts and rare mods - sell them in the trade channel for plat.
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I think a new frame is inbound. The body is similar to Saryn but the shoulder, the arm, and the leg all looked different - a bit armored. The head look like a clown at first glance.
Harlequin frame speculation.
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As a Buddhist and a forensic pathologist, I deal with death daily and see the pain of those involved with the process. My sect of Buddhist believes in no god and deity, we believe only in cause and effect so I'm unlikely to fully understand your situation and your family's point of view. We believe that human are born, grow up, grew old (or ill), and died. An inescapable cycle of life that we all have to accept and my job strongly reinforce this view.
While your belief is purely yours, revealing it at an inappropriate time and place usually create a bad response. People tend to react emotionally in time like of grieve and unexpected death in the family is the biggest deal of all. In this case, deciding to reveal that you can't or don't feel sorry for the dead is pretty much another blow for the family. Well, wait until the situation become less volatile before trying to reconcile with the family is now the best option.
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Ehh, 500M USD budget really makes the difference.
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I don't really see why we should be able to unlock everything - it offers no diversity at all.
Just make choices matter and let us choose smartly with ability to redistribute point as needed and it should be fine.
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SOME RNG is OK.
And the spread of keys that drops is usually not that bad from experiences, they all seem to have equal chances of dropping. Not so with Prime Parts. Many players like myself believes that they skewed drop rates for some prime parts to make sure some were nearly impossible to obtain.
And if keys ever did become a problem, we could do it by faction. Grineer Defense/Survival/Interception drop X types of keys while Corpus drop Y types of keys. There you go; now you can influence what keys you get. The only problem with that is invasions, where you might see a dry spell where some keys are not obtainable.
Also, did you miss where I said "One Key Fits All" where we only have Tier 1/2/3/4 keys and not Mission Keys? Using one of those gives you a Void Map and you choose what mission you want? That removes Key RNG too.
I didn't say anything about using $$$ for limiting storage. All I said is "Limit how many tokens you can carry at any given time". This limit is NOT meant to be expanded by any means, it is a Hard-Cap that prevents stockpiling beyond that (small) amount. You can stockpile some, but not enough to buy a whole prime item as soon as patch comes out.
Some people won't like the idea of grinding tokens, and some people still would rather have it RIGHT NOW rather than spending 2-3 weeks to build a prime item out of Tokens alone. There will still be a market, people could actually sell their Void Tokens in the form of Prime Parts. "I have 800 Tokens... anybody wanna buy a Hard to get piece? Tell me what you want!"
I don't want to argue with your inconsistency and attempt to bash two lines of my previous post so I will drop the fairness and progress issue out of the discussion.
I partially agree with your proposal but again, players will whine about being forced to play specific factions against their will. Silly playerbase, I know, but it's something to be aware of since it happened before when certain piece of item being put into less popular mission type or faction. The one key fits all is a nice concept but irrelevant to my previous post so I didn't response to it.
The hard cap is something I generally disagree. There will be microtransanction built around this concept for sure. Many games have been using it for a very long time as a way to monetize game with non-P2W philosophy. Feel free to disagree but this is what I strongly believe will happen with this model. I don't really see why DE won't monetize it. They already did with inventory slot.
About the market - Market will exist but the price will drop - platinum sells will also drop thus less revenue for DE. I didn't say that the market will disappear but platinum won't flow as good as it is. It will also cause material stockpile microtransanction to compensate this as short term response. Long term response is more worrisome.
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Of course you didn't. That's why Pure RNG fails. You omitted the two reasons why it fails.
There's always ways around complications, you just need to think creatively.
SOME RNG is good; we don't want to remove RNG entirely, and I know I and other players have said this several times over.
I've suggested, many times, a system where keys are split up merely by Tier. "Tier 1 Void Key", "Tier 2 Void Key", "Tier 3 Void Key", "Tier 4 Void Key".
When you use a Void Key, you get a Void Starmap which allows you to select the Void Mission Type of your preference. There, no more Void Key Type RNG. They could make the key drops themselves RNG from appropriate level normal missions (INCLUDING Spy/Sabotage/Deception!) to keep it exciting to get one.
Not necessarily. You can keep drops but add a Token System.
Hint: Decay is not the only way to deal with people finishing content too fast. I'll explain shortly.
How else would you do loot then? lol.
Now that Decay thing I mentioned above?
With the tokens.... make it so you can only get X of this token per week and Y tokens maximum on-hand. Let's assume you can only get 1,000 Void Tokens per week and you're only permitted to have 3,000 at any given time. Guess what? You can't stockpile beyond 3,000. Make each void piece cost 1500-2000 tokens to buy outright. Guess what happens then? You can stockpile 3k tokens... and buy two easy pieces or 1 hard to get piece as soon as the patch hits. Big Freaking Whoop. 13.7 added what, 3 Primes which means 4 pieces per, 12 pieces? lol. Good luck getting all the pieces with Tokens alone! But hey if you have HORRIBLE luck at any certain prime piece... you can buy it with tokens after a couple weeks of delving into the Void.
And to the guy who said "OMG LOREBREAKING!!!", consider the fact that Tenno have sold prime parts on the market before trading came out. Consider the fact that Tenno will do Void Exterminates and Lotus's Crew moves in.
Maybe the Tenno find Void Salvage (you could call the tokens that, easily). The Lotus wants to research more into Orokin Technology to create more ships and other technological advances to improve the odds of winning the war. The Lotus will reward Tenno who give her enough Void Salvage scraps with Prime Pieces of the Tenno's choice. Void Salvage takes up space, though, and the Tenno can only store so much of it in their Player Ship before they run out of room (the 3,000 max). The 1,000 per week? *shrugs* Does EVERYTHING have to be explained by lore? Can't we hand-wave a few things now and then?
As I posted in my first post in this topic, I'm similar with how things work in ARPG. However, what you proposed has its own merit and its drawback and some are purely shortsight.
I'm a bit confused with your concept with fairness and progress. You want to keep RNG in regular mission because it's fair and considered as progress? By your concept of fairness and visible progress, RNG should be taken out of the system entirely since even in regular mission you can't influence which key is going to drop and when. Can you please answer why you want to keep in normal mission but not in void?
In practice, limiting storage is used as a microtransanction model and not an actual limiting factor. PoE and other online games has been using it, including Warframe in a form of inventory slot. So be cautious of your limiting inventory proposal. This will create considerable advantage between paying and non-paying player.
Another thing that you omitted entirely is the fact that DE has been using RNG mechanic as a drive behind platinum purchasing and Warframe's trading economy. When you can use token to find 'the rarest' part then it's no longer rare - causing the market price to drop (similar to what we see with Vor start dropping Cicero mod - Cicero mod price will drop sharply since they are now obtainable).
And the static loot comment....I'll give you some time to see why was it wrong by yourself. Anyone familiar with ARPG should know that why it was wrong.
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I'm going to C&P something I said in the "Direction of Warframe" thread:
OP, are you seriously going to tell me that you don't understand where we're coming from, or at least what I'm trying to say here?
Wrong, Tokens would guarantee Fairness and remove the Luck element.
With RNG, Player A could get Rhino Prime Chassis on his first 20 minute survival, while player B like myself might do 19+ keys and still not have it. That isn't fair. At all. Why should I do 20x more work than the other player did to get the same thing? With a Token system, we could both put in the same amount of time for said item.
Also, with a Token system.... YOU KNOW YOU ARE MAKING PROGRESS WHICH IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING ABOUT IT. After spending 19 keys, I have absolutely zero faith that it will ever drop. I could easily spend another 19 and still not have it. With a Token system, I know that EVERY run I do is getting me closer to my goal. It is something I can MEASURE. Gambler's Fallacy dictates that my previous attempts mean absolutely nothing for my Progress towards getting Rhino Prime Chassis. You can't have PROGRESS in an RNG-based system. The only thing you can do is merely bang your head against the wall until you finally see the stars.
I didn't say anything about progress and fairness.
While token has been hailed as RNG replacement, there are a lot of complications that players fail to realize.
In Warframe, one void key has multiple specific drops - that means token is going to be mission type-based in order to prevent player from grinding survival mission for void token (or turning prime part into token). This will result in key RNG being the next problem that must be fixed in order to create sense of progress. Which, of course, means overhauling the entire drop system and turn it into giant grindfest.
- grind for regular mission token.
- turn regular tokens into void key.
- play type-specific void mission for mission-specific void token.
- turn mission-specific void token into prime parts.
What will happen is the same thing we see in material. Oversaturation of resource/material means player will always have some left in the inventory and ready to craft a newly released item. Significantly shorten the time of Warframe's update. DE fixed this problem by introducing decaying material, Arfon crystal, to stall the player's progress. No one likes it.
I'm more concern about loot's static nature than RNG. It causes problems which are the root of RNG being used as a main method to acquire everything in the game
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While I'm a fan of ARPG genre and I see RNG is the basis which this genre use as main mechanic for a very long time, I think Warframe RNG and he static nature of loot are incompatible.
Other games feature a much more heavy RNG game mechanic (D3 mystic, PoE skill gem/support gem, and other assortted randomized value in each piece of gear) but the genre has evolved from it's luck-based root to a more controllable method like using crafting and more systemic RNG to deal with the 'bad luck' problem. However, these solutions are not viable in Warframe simply because 'all you need is one' problem that stemmed from static nature of Warframe's loot.
Players seek out item A which has a static number attached that means in many situations, a single player only need one of it to complete his/her collection. This cause the problem in loot drop mechanic since
A. Using a 'static' system like acheievement is out of question since it means all players will receive the item in question eventually. Warframe's economy is based on rarity on the item. This means all items that dropped from these mechanics have no market value.
B. Whatever system that can compete with RNG must be a time wall comparable to average time taken to get the item from RNG since you only need one of these items. In another word, you can not escape the grind. It will come in one form or another. You may have to play at least 20 hours to get one item compared to playing 1 minute to 40 hours to get it.
C. Crafting with fixed recipe will undoubtly mean a harder, more grind based on RNG similar to Diablo2 rune/Horadric cube interaction (or D3 gem upgrade system).
D. Token won't change anything but creating another way to grind which the amount of grinding depends on DE's decision to balance with RNG. It won't be small imo.
In essence, the problem with loot/drop mechanic are two folds. The loot itself and how to get it. With the current loot design, I see no way to effectively escape RNG without creating another way to grind the content and lower the market value of these items in the same time.
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I don't see the relation between doing an activity and love doing it. One can do one's job for 10 years without loving it but keep doing it because it pays well. Players grind void missions simply because there is no choice. There is nowhere else these items are dropped.
If there are other choices, will players react in the same way?.
This topic's lack of logic is stunning. Stompingly stunning.
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Well, smokescreen and invisibility grant you ability to be untargetable. AI can shoot at your last known location but to be frank, that's pointless. Any Loki with average IQ move himself out of that area as fast as he can and draw his sword for melee damage multiplier. Your weapons become totally silent and allow you to shoot without fear of retaliation.
In essence, yes, they need some tweaking.
A. AI should attack last known 'death' location. If you melee someone to death, the AI will start attacking that location instead of last 'cast' location.
B. using non-silent weapon shooting at AI should result in AI shooting back in general direction of the gunfire's sound.
C. Adding detector AI to each faction. Getting into detection range reveals yourself to the AI.
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I feel my energy drained looking at trinity topic.
Or is there an energy leech Eximus in my office? Must be my boss.
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All parts pertaining to the focus system are speculative.
This game is supposed to be based on 30 ranks of mastery, but we currently only have 15 to work with. Technically there is no power creep yet because there is no actual "finish line" or benchmark for what is the actual top tier.
With that being said: It certainly feels like there is power creep in this game. Anyone who denies that would be a fool. So why does it feel like creep even though the game isn't finished?
When a new gun is released that isn't top tier, the general population level it, and sell it. "Mastery Fodder" "Mastery Trash" are just as hurtful to the game as Power Creep is, but for the opposite reason.
So the real question is how do you balance weapon releases so that people want them all, but still don't get mad when/if one replaces another?
Upgrade weapon based on mastery rank similar to conversion BP converted Nikana into Dragon Nikana. I am fully aware that the BP was introduced to fix one particular problem but if DE decide to expand it (with balanced mastery) then we will have all weapons compete for player's attention.
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The upgrade road has one fundamental flaw.
Formaed slots are either carried to the next weapon or lost.
A) means no one is ever going to use more than 5 formas.
B) means no one is ever going to use a single forma untile they are SURE no newer weapons are going to be released.
I think forma and catalyst should be carried through subsequent upgrades.
Weapon that grows with you should retain whatever power you gave it.
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I made a conceptual topic regarding conversion BP as a tool to expand our lategame loadout a month ago. So, conceptually agree with you.
However, there are a few problems that need to be fixed first.
A. There must be intra/inter mastery rank balance tool first. The entire balance problems spawn from the fact that DE has the intention to use MR as a tool to represent both balance and progression but spectacularly fail to use it in a meaningful way for months. Upgrade weapon should have no problem with balance tool in place.
B. How much freedom should player have in this system? There are two major routes to be taken.
- Strict, DE designate how weapon should change through upgrading. This will keep how weapon works and handled. However, the degree of limitation is debatable. Perhaps, choices to choose by player to upgrade IPS damage or add another elemental damage?
- More versatile approach. With balance tool in place, DE could give it to us and let us adjust weapon's stat by ourselves to reflect mastery rank it now possess. The problem that will rise from this free-form approach is the fact that weapons will cross the line into other weapons' niche.
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I have doubt about focus forcing player to go back and grind mastery from these mastery fodder items.
Focus system probably work in a way that mastery rank expand available focus slot and allow more versatility. However, we don't know how much impact mastery rank will have on the system and with past history of DE, I think they are going to cater more midgame than late-game since it affects more players. Focus probably giving optimal return around rank 6-8 which isn't hard to acquire with most high end wares.
We will see, we will see.
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I think the 'perfect imbalance' by EC is meant to address mainly PvP game which works in an elaborate paper-rock-scissor system. LoL, Starcraft, and other MOBA are based on this principle since each team is supposed to work in a cooperative fashion. Weaknesses and strengths are introduced into each character to create an environment that no champion is necessary better than others.I'm just going to leave a video from the Extra Credit guys here on game balance. "Pseudo intellectual" game developers who have decided to make a few videos on game design. Because clearly you've not grasped what people who explain that things require balancing actually mean, apart from "ner plz", and why broken and utterly imbalanced powers destroy everything they touch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w%5Dhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w%5B/url%5D'>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w[/url
Thus, perfect imbalance.
In PvE context, Diablo2-3, Torchlight, and Borderlands are good examples. Each class should have it's own strength and weakness that cater certain playstyle. In the most ideal environment, each class should have multiple builds based on different gears and skills to choose. In a cooperative gameplay, each class should be able to work together and excel in different departments.
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I think prime should have an edge in stat, not in power design. Power design is too...obvious change and players who dislike prime aesthetic but enjoy the power will cry about it which is good. Your idea is pretty much making the arcane stat helmet in a bigger scale.
Depends on DE's direction though, should prime be a minor upgrade or a totally different frame or just bling?
I suggest that keep the stat difference but allow power to be customized similar to Diablo3 Rune system or power combination from Transistor.
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And to NeKroMancer, I'm not against vertical progression strictly, but it needs to be controlled, and it needs to be reasonable, and I don't think the "progression" in Warframe has been either of those things.
Okay, so I'm confused about the analogy a bit. What do you mean by the weapon stairs being neglected? All DE seems to do is add more and more powerful weapons. In general, content doesn't increase in skill-contingent difficulty, and largely not numerical difficulty either. Care to clarify?
Stair represent choice. I made a bad analogy there, sorry.
DE didn't release equal counterpart of 'strongest' weapon like Boltor prime. Essentially, players are bound to use single weapon to reach highest level possible in endless mode. The choice is practically lessen by design.
Less stair to climb.
Adding more items into this category doesn't mean there are more choices for player as long as there is the 'best' thing.
If DE start balancing weapons and make Bow, Crossbow, Shotgun (both semi-auto and full-auto), etc able to compete with Boltor prime with appropriate rank requirement then it's going to increase the number of choice available to the player.
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Sorry, I need to step in here. GW2 did not need to resort to vertical progression. GW1 was flat for pretty much its entire lifespan. Not all games need vertical progression, especially if they can't prevent or mitigate power creep effectively. In Warframe it was not a matter of some guns good, others bad, and it stays like that. The reality is that old weapons are generally inferior to new weapons. In a game with vertical progression, let's look at WoW for instance, content is released with a range. Gear becomes more powerful over time, but it's released in batches, which contain both strong gear and weak gear appropriate for the new content. And more importantly, WoW did not monetize the individual pieces of content they released.
League of Legends begs to differ. Besides gameplay, they monetized convenience and cosmetics exclusively. That was a game of no vertical progression, and I think LoL's popularity is a good indicator that its players were very happy.
The "tier system" is a mess. Brakk is arguably the strongest secondary, and one of the strongest weapons in the game. It has no requirement to getting it, only RNG. It's entirely possible a new player could happen upon the G3 in a pug and walk away with a weapon that surpasses virtually all others in strength. Detron has nearly identical methods for acquiring it, yet nearly all its stats are inferior to Brakk. Spectra is one of the weakest weapons in the game, it's mastery rank 4. Marelok is one of the strongest weapons in the game, it's mastery rank 5 and has extremely similar build requirements.
I don't mind vertical progression as long as there is content to support it and enough variety of loot to choose for without forcing player to use the 'best/strongest' weapon.
PvE game is mainly a number game with some skill involve. It's like climbing a stair to the higher level.
The problem isn't how far the stair can reach, the problem is how many stairs the game offers to the player. Warframe is in the process of trying to expand the 'stair' in aspect of frame. The weapon 'stair' is neglected.
Ability Scaling: Issues With Ideas Discussed In Devstream 31
in Warframes
Posted
To be frank, I don't get it. It doesn't solve the damage falloff of damage abilities. You still can't deal sufficient damage to higher level AI then what does it solve?
I agree with DE's idea - giving these damage abilities utility aspect to make them useful in higher level. With proc chance thrown into the equation, I think it is a viable solution for this problem. Look at Rhino Stomp and Molecular prime as examples for this solution. However, the problem is that elemental effect doesn't offer much variety and require a lot of tinkering to prevent one power from being overpower.