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Onimachi

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Posts posted by Onimachi

  1. ^Pretty much this. the only point I disagree with you OP is on your comparison of the Technocyte virus to the Zerg.

     

     

    The Technocyte virus is a manufactured biological weapon used for the sole purpose of infecting human populations.

     

    The Zerg are a race, or rather originally multiple races of various organisms, that were experimented on by the Xel'Naga and later conglomerated into a hive-mind structure to form a unified race of beings. The "Zerg Virus" is probably actually not similar to a conventional form of viral strain at all, but more likely similar to a bacterial infection or parasite, and perhaps even a fungal infection. This is largely due to the information provided by Abathur, the creature who weaves and spins generic strands to alter organisms for the Zerg, who mentions that he cannot work on a mirco-scale that was required for the infestation of Stukov, similar to that of producing vrial weapon that is deigned to target a specific species in a specific way that would be needed to derive something similar to the Technocyte virus.

     

    Lastly - Protoss cannot be infested. Therefore, the only known race that is subject to Zerg infestation is the Terrans, which shows that the "Zerg Virus" is more or less and accidental evolutionary blip that resulted in having a harmful effect on the host. In an alternative universe, it could've been the Terrans who were the ones going around infecting the local Zerg populations. But that would make for a very odd aspect of the game since it deviates from conventional thinking and probably wouldn't be very fun. 

    Yeah guys, you're right, the virus and the zerg are not the same, but surely you can appreciate the overarching similarities in their behavior and M.O.  I made the statement somewhat in jest, to invoke a sci-fi trope I imagine we're all familiar with.

  2. There is no evidence that the orokin were non-human. It is much more likely that the Orokin and evolved humans and that the sentients are called sentient, because it is strange that they are sentient or that the only way to describe them is sentient.

    It could be that the sentients were a race of sentient machines

    It also says that they turned the orokin's technology against them could the sentients be something the orokin didn't understand that made the orokin's technology sentient against them?

    I was just writing a post to this effect, I agree that this is the other reasonable theory!  I lean towards the orokin-as-machine one, though, because of the Infested/technocyte virus.  The only things Infested seem to not infect (mutate and control utterly, I know they are working on new infested ship interiors which are more "infested", but that's not what I mean) are mechanical things, so it would make much sense to create AI controlled, mechanical solutions to infested problems.  You're right that there's not direct evidence for this, but I think it's a fair deduction, no?

    Again, i'm open to being proved wrong if someone has some better evidence.

  3. Are you saying that the Orokins, who you claim were robots who took over weren't sentient? Because that's kinda nessecarily for a robot uprising.

    Also Ember's codex talks about the creation of the Tenno, who we know we created by the orokin. And things that create the Tenno are human, or basically human.

    Orokin created the Tenno

    The things that created the Tenno and talked about them being made were humans or some evolved form of humans.

    Orokins are human(ish)

    Again, I don't think the Ember codex entry reveals much.  It certanly doesn't prove (or even imply, really) that the Orokin are human.  

    What it does imply, is that the tenno can (in some way) exude their abilities outside their frames.

    Ships that are lost in the solar rail transit never return, likely because they enter the void (which I suspect is just Deep Space).

    Humans who enter the void, or who have been in the void for extended periods begin to exhibit tenno-like abilities, likely related to what point in the void/realspace they spend time in (ember's parts are found on Saturn, the ship was lost near saturn) 

    I'm open to be proven wrong about all this though, I just think it's a big stretch to assume Ember's entry contains Orokin talking to eachother, when that's not stated (or really impled) in the text. No?

  4. Are you saying that the Orokins, who you claim were robots who took over weren't sentient? Because that's kinda nessecarily for a robot uprising.

    Also Ember's codex talks about the creation of the Tenno, who we know we created by the orokin. And things that create the Tenno are human, or basically human.

    Orokin created the Tenno

    The things that created the Tenno and talked about them being made were humans or some evolved form of humans.

    Orokins are human(ish)

    I'm saying that the Orokin didn't refer to themselves as sentient, clearly. One of three things is true:

    A) the Orokin are humans who did not refer to themselves as sentient

    B) The Orokin are non-humans who did not refer to themselves as sentient

    or C) the Orokin refereed to both themselves and their enemies as "Sentient" aka "we are the Orokin, and we are sentient, but they are THE Sentients"

    Seeing as we, humans, currently refer to ourselves as sentient, i'd wager that either B or C is the case, with B being more likely.  I agree with you, this seems like a silly semantic thing for the Orokin to do if they are machines, but It still makes more sense than them also being human.

  5. 1) Who put the Tenno get into the Void in the first place? One old event message made it sound like some sort of quarantine zone. Why would some infected humans be sent to the Void, and others stay to die on Earth?

     

    2) Why would Tenno betraying the Orokin have anything to do with the Corpus? The only being old enough to know about that incident is Stalker. If anything, Lotus being an ex-Corpus operator seems more likely.

    1) The Tenno wern't "put" into the void per-se, they were created there.  The Orokin were created by the humans to manage the Infested (aka the Technocyte virus' mutated critters) and their Final Solution was to put corral them into a sort of slipspace, or The Void.  It is clear that the Infested have some sort of intelegence, hive-mind or no, so it is likely that the Orokin captured/localized that,  and sent it packing to the Phantom Zone (opera not included).  Once the zerg had no overmind, it was simple mop up. And for a time, it was good.  Then the Human-Machine wars bubble up, the machines underestimate the power of friendship, in their desperation they open up the void to unleash the worst they could find on the humans.  The worst they could find were the humans that had been able to survive in Infested Space.  Again, from excalibur's codex "The war was over unless we found a new way. In our desperation we turned to the Void. The blinding night, the hellspace where our science and reason failed. We took the twisted few that had returned from that place. We built a frame around them, a conduit of their affliction"

    TLDR: The Tenno were made from the poor schmucks who limped out of The Void when the Orokin opend it back up into realspace, near the end of the human-machine war.

    2): The Corpus and Greneer are factions of humanity, and humanity was around before and during the Orokin era.  While they don't likely know the whole story, the bookish and machine cult-y grineer likely know more about what went down than anyone else (save lotus).  So, it doesn't have anything to do with the corpus directly, but they may have some extremely biased quasi-religious records about it.

    Thanks for reading and considering!

  6. The orokin aren't machines. They were humanoids (read embers codex). They were however wiped out by these things called the "Sentients" which DE said would be the most alien faction when they eventually return.

    You're right about te infested, but the Orokin were humans/evolved humanoids

    I can see how you'd get that impression from the Ember Prime Codex, but I don't think it's a good support for the humanity of the Orokin.  There is no strong implication that any party in the dialogue is Orokin.  My continued evidence for Orokin as Machine is thus:
     
    The Orokin fought against "The Sentients", it would be linguistically counterproductive to refer to your enemy using a quality you share with it.  Thinking machines may have determined that while they are sapient, or insightful, they were not sentient in the classical, organic definition of the word.
     
    I also posit, that In a bizzare and Orwellian twist, the Sentients may have became so machine like in their quest to destroy the Ai/Mechanical Orokin that they were more machine than man...Alien, in a esoteric (perhaps not literal) sense. From Excalibur's codex: "The Sentients had won. They had turned our weapons, our technology, against us."

    The Orokin display a mastery of using organic and inorganic puppets to defend themselves from harm, this ability (combined with what we know about the Tennos' betrayal) implies that they might have been using a similar technology to control the once human tenno.

  7. The Technocyte Virus (the corrupting, mutating plague first seen in Warframe's spiritual/actual predecessor, Dark Sector) is what turns normal biological organisims into infested, See: Zerg.  This disease infected the world after the end Dark Sector, and most thinking, organic things; most sentient things, were consumed.  Those who survived must have relied on machines to do the heavy lifting required to sustain life on earth and eventually throuought the solar system. Someone gives the machines a brain, the thinking machines revolt, gain the upper hand, humanity pulls a last-stand-win, and when it looks like we're about to send Omnius-Skynet to that big cloud server in the sky, The Architect opens up The Void, and out spill the Tenno.

    Tenno: a human "pilot" infected by Technocyte who's powers and likely their corporeal being are held together by superscience generously provided by the Orokin Machines.  The volatile and infectious nature of the technocyte virus (as shown through the infested in Dark Sector and Warframe, and implied in Excalibur's codex entry) likely means that becoming a Tenno is not only a one-way trip, but you can't exist without your frame for a meaningful amount of time (think Ironman and his heart-magnet).

    Cliche'dly, the Orokin make the mistake all machine overlords make - they underestimate the "Human Spirit" (See: Heart of the cards) and the Tenno realize they have more in common with the humans they are slaughtering than the Machines hosting them. They (we) Starscream the robarts, going HAM on their entire empire (That's why the corpus refer to the Tenno as "betrayers".

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