dudefaceguy
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Posts posted by dudefaceguy
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13 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
Misc:2 / 2 / 3 / 3 (initial spores)
2 / 2 / 3 / 3 (spread spores)http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Spores
Riiight at the top. That is actually a factor.
I don't know what to tell you, other than to test it in the Simulacrum. It's a very easy test. Go in with a max range Saryn, spawn 20 enemies, and pop one spore.
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4 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
Instead of infecting 3 enemys, you infect 3x3x3 (depending on how many enemys you hit really)
Popping one spore will spread spores to all enemies in range. So, it's entirely based on the ability range stat, and not on how many enemies you hit. The spreading mechanic is unchanged in the rework from what I've seen.
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6 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:
tbh I thought the reason people mod for gas is because gas has toxin involved and you're essentially double dipping with the toxin damage in gas Plus the proc you made to have really strong procs and the gas itself is popping the spores making it a self feeding damage proc.
Toxin procs from Gas and from Toxin do the same amount of damage. The reason you use gas is because you can use two dual-stat mods instead of one for more status chance, and because gas has an AoE that pops all the Spores.
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9 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
eximus units
These can have damage reduction auras. Also, are you taking armor and elemental resistances/weaknesses into account? If you are popping spores with a single gas proc, you also can't add damage from multishot, since it's only one of the projectile proccing gas.
Try it versus something like Ancient Disruptors. I think they are neutral versus gas, and their aura doesn't affect damage numbers.
Edit: for in depth number crunching, I recommend x3lp's videos, which are linked in my Reddit guide from the first post.
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Just now, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
What brings us to the question why it sets the status but doesn't actually scale or even reflect the damage, does it not.
I don't really know what you're asking. What is "it?" Spores currently transfers toxin procs at reduced damage, compared to the original proc. There are tons of videos showing and explaining this, and it's very easy to test. The higher the damage that caused the original toxin proc, the higher the damage of the transferred proc.
If you want to test it yourself, go into the Simulacrum with the Synoid Gammacor modded for gas, and the Lanka modded for gas, and fight level 140ish armored enemies that can survive a hit from the Lanka. When you get a toxin proc from the Lanka, it will transfer more damage than the proc from the Gammacor.
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8 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
Yes, and the enemy has to get a toxin proc from somewhere first. Spores don't proc toxin.
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16 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
spores get a innitiate chance to set toxin
Nope, it's just viral. Check the wiki or do some testing of your own if you want to confirm that.
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3 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
Your test video literally shows you killing enemys with gas and damaging others with spores, same as any other test video so far. Your point?
It shows toxin procs transferring. You can see the little skull symbol next to the enemies' health bars, which indicates that they have a toxin proc. The tests are described in detail in the video description.
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6 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
Nah cause i tested it with a low range toxin melee and it never did.
Melee in specific had its own bugs. You can watch my linked videos to see toxin procs spreading from weapons modded for gas. My linked guide explains this in detail.
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6 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
Did that playstyle ever do anything except doing damage with the gas proccs itself? I don't see the issue here.
The toxin procs transferred to all enemies within range of Spores, which could nuke the map. If they kept this while removing the complex and janky mechanics, it would be immensely more powerful, and really OP. So, I agree that they should simplify Saryn without giving her an easier nuke. They had to remove spreading Toxin procs to accomplish this, and that is fine.
But, I would still like to see some synergy with long-range marksmanship. Sniper Saryn is one of the only ways we can make this truly viable in Warframe's horde gameplay.
Maybe I'm wrong and it is still viable, but I don't see it.
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8 hours ago, sixmille said:
Except that you can't keep this and get the changes at the same time. Saryn was already god tier and is about to get a buff (which is silly but I digress). If what you're asking for is preserved it's going to be completely game breaking. Well more than it already is anyway. You certainly shouldn't be able to have your cake and eat it too.
I don't want it to nuke the map like it does now. If they fixed the quirks and still let it do massive damage, that would indeed be OP. They are right to remove the Toxin proc spreading because there is no way to do it that is simple and consistent without being super OP.
This is why I suggested spreading Viral procs instead of toxin. This would reward us for landing a shot, but would not instantly kill all of the enemies. Sniper playstyle is preserved and janky mechanics are removed.
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Update after testing: Saryn is still viable, fun, and rewarding. The main reason, which I didn't consider, is that you don't want to re-cast spores, because that's resets your damage; instead, you want to target existing enemies, which are often far away from you. So, using a long-range weapon enables you to spread your spores more effectively by sniping the surviving enemies from across the map. This is a great rework and my suggestions are unnecessary.
Begin obsolete post:
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TL;DR: Have Spores spread Viral procs in the same way they spread Toxin procs now.
What is Sniper Sayrn and why is it fun?
The basic gist of the playstyle is to use a high-status, high-damage sniper or bow modded for gas to pop spores and spread high-damage toxin procs. It is fun because you are rewarded for landing precise shots with high-damage weapons. Taking your time to line up the pefect shot on the perfect enemy is rewarding, which is not usually the case in Warframe.
I wrote a guide to this playstyle here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/7o3ulf/saryn_spores_tldr_guide_and_resources/
Here is a video of me doing a bounty on the Plains with this playstyle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WLwfZ5PaxA
Unfortunately, the new rework will kill this playstyle, because toxin procs will no longer transfer with Spores (see Prime Time here: https://youtu.be/526L7k6En3Q?t=10m9s). This will kill most of the synergy with high-damage, precise weaponry.
Problems with Sniper Saryn in her current form
Unfortunately, Sniper Saryn is hampered by horrendously unintuitive mechanics, and lots of RNG. The worst thing about it is that spores will not spread toxin procs if you one-shot enemies. This is utterly unintuitive, and works against the whole purpose of the ability by punishing the player for landing high-damage shots. It also means that you have to tailor your damage output to the level of the enemies, because you need enough damage to kill them with toxin procs, but little enough that you won't one-shot them. That is some finnicky nonsense.
Also, I can't deny that, if you get it to work right, this build is just crazy OP. And, if DE were to fix the one-shot bug so that you could spread incredibly high toxin procs even if you did overkill damage, she would be even more OP! In the video I linked above, you can see me killing groups of level 60 enemies from 100 meters away. This is super fun as a solo player, but if it could be done consistently, it would be extremely annoying in a squad. The only thing saving Sniper Saryn from ruining the game for everyone else is bugs and RNG. It's either OP or trash, depending on nothing but luck. And as much as I love this playstyle, I have to admit that it's not a great design in this aspect.
What can be done to preserve the playstyle, and fix the janky bugs?
I like the new rework ideas in general, and I don't think much needs to change to preserve this fun playstyle. I'm not a video game designer, and I think that DE could probably come up with better ways to continue to reward Saryn for precise marksmanship. But, here is my idea: have Spores spread Viral procs, if the enemy has a Viral proc (i.e. the way they spread Toxin procs now). This would reward marksmanship, because it would give players a way to spread Viral to distant enemies, without running up into the middle of them and casting Miasma. And, the Viral procs that spread with Spores would wear off after 6 seconds (and not refresh for the entirety of Spores' duration like it does now), so we would have to continually reapply Viral either with our weapons, or with Miasma. The incentive to bring a very high-damage weapon would be removed, but I think this is good: players would get a larger choice of weapons, and we could still do very well with precise single-shot weapons. It is also thematic.
Instead of a buggy, RNG-dependent nuke that is randomly garbage or OP, we would get a consistent way to halve enemy health if we landed a precise shot. It would be consistent, but not OP because we would not be nuking the map. Instead of a solo playstyle, it would be a supporting playstyle. I think this is a great way to give Saryn some synergy with long-range weapons, and preserve one of my favorite playstyles.
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11 minutes ago, MunsuLight said:
The more I do math with it .. the more it becomes apparent this is a nerf .. Stripping armor is useless if you can do it with either Weapons or just 4x CP.
Can I see your math? Sure you can strip armor with weapons, but not in a huge AoE, all at once. 4xCP is a fair point, but I don't see it often in PuGs.
Viral effectively doubles your damage. By contrast, it would take just 3 corrosive procs to more than double the damage taken by a level 100 Heavy Gunner, because she would go from 96% damage reduction to 91.3% damage reduction. And, now you can do this while also applying viral procs in an AoE. So, I don't know how this could be a nerf if we can get viral and corrosive procs, rather than just viral procs.
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1 minute ago, (XB1)Ein Sof said:
I just hope you guys don't go overboard making her op to the point of being broken, then nerfing her to the ground.
Valid concern is valid.
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1 minute ago, Neo3602 said:
I was referring solely to the fact the Corrosive Proc are only useful against armored enemies where as Viral Procs are universally useful.
That is a fair point, but we still get Viral from Miasma, and now we get another guaranteed proc on top of it, which is insane for Condition Overload. And even though Corrosive procs are only useful against armor, stripping armor is incredibly good. We don't need a viral proc for Infested or Corpus because they are made out of paper compared to Grineer, and they will die to the transferred toxin procs even without Viral. But if you still want Viral, you still have it. It's just that Saryn can also strip armor automatically now.
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1 minute ago, Crimson_S said:
Not exactly, theirs a fair amount of corpus units with armor. And damage still hurts them regardless.
Yes, and the toxin procs that transfer along with Spores will still bypass shields. The base damage of Spores was always pitiful, except against sub-level-20 enemies.
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12 minutes ago, ngrazer said:
Hi!
I think it's pretty well-known that as of right now Saryn's spores allows her to compete with other frames in terms of overall usefulness. Cast Spores on a Molt, pop 'em, few moments later new enemies spawn - cast the Spores and pop 'em again to affect those new enemies. This is extremely useful and convenient to keep enemies under the effect of Spores.
New 'recast to pop' is completely destroying this thing.
Casting Spores on Molt is really counter-productive, as it is. Saryn's damage comes from toxin procs applied by her weapons, and transferred alongside Spores. Molt is status immune, so it cannot transfer toxin procs. When enemies already have 3 spores, they cannot get any more spores, which means that they will not get the extra viral burst damage that transfers when you pop spores on an enemy that's affected by toxin procs. So, when you cast Spores on Molt and then pop them, you are "immunizing" enemies from a lot of the potential damage they could get from Spores. It is far better to simply cast Spores on an enemy, and then pop them with a gas proc. Casting Spores once also costs less energy than casting Molt and then casting Spores on Molt. So, there is really no reason to cast Spores on Molt unless you are on a very low-level mission and want to kill everything without having to actually see an enemy.
So, we are not really losing anything with this change, except that they are removing a very sub-par way of using Spores. Being able to pop all spores and then re-apply them, including burst damage that scales off of weapon damage via toxin procs, is a crazy buff.
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4 minutes ago, Latiac said:
Ramping spore damage in reality won't do anywhere near enough damage to 100+ content to even consider it to be a buff
Saryn gets her damage from toxin procs, which transfer with Spores and scale off of weapon damage. This is apparently not going to be changed. You'll just have to cast Miasma more often for the sweet Viral proc.
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This sounds like an insane buff! It looks like you are preserving (and even substantially buffing) the viability of "sniper/bow Saryn," which is great because it's a way to do AoE damage that rewards precise and interactive play.
While you are looking at her, I hope that you fix the fact that Spores will not spread toxin procs if you one-shot the enemy. I don't know if this is intended or not; please clarify it or fix it. Here is evidence and testing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkIMKIF2VfQ
This leads to players thinking that Spores is randomly bugged. They kill enemies with high-damage weapons and get a gas/toxin proc, Spores spreads, but it does not spread a Toxin proc to the affected enemies. What's actually happening is that they are one-shotting the enemy, and the Spores are registering the death before the proc (I guess), so they just spread as a result of the enemy's death (with reduced range) rather than from the gas proc popping the spores. It took a lot of testing for me to figure this out; at first glance it just feels like the ability just doesn't work sometimes.
Of course, if you do fix this then you could nuke any map reliably with a gas Lanka. If you decide to keep it as a feature, please document it officially so that players know about it.
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They go to the old Eidolon farm, where they can run and play with the other old Eidolons. No, we can't visit, it's too far away.
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You're right, Khora has made Frost and Excal obsolete, not to mention Trinity. Her thematics and synergy are off the charts compared to these ancient relics. Who can even tell what Frost's theme is? I had to look it up on the wiki. Complete waste of a slot. /S
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On 2018-05-04 at 6:54 AM, Void-Gunslinger said:
I got a vectis riven with around 200 rolls and NEVER but NEVER in 200 rolls did I get CC and CD (didn't care if I would get other stats with those two).
An yes, most of the good stats rivens that I have are low rolls.
P.S. And no, that vectis riven is not the only one I got over 100 rolls with "bad" results. In my opinion there is no reason to go over 20ish rolls.Each stat has a 1/17 chance of occurring snce there are 17 stats. So if you want to get two stats together that's 1/17*1/17 or 1/289 chance. You can't expect to get something with a 1/289 chance in only 200 rolls.
I guess the chances are actually a little better because you can get 3 stats, so you would sometimes have another chance to get the second stat. But, the chances would still be quite low.
If you are only looking for one stat, then you have at least a 2/17 chance of getting it on each roll, so you would expect to get it in less than 10 rolls.
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14% crit is plenty if you're running Blood Rush. More crit chance gives diminishing returns, like most other stats. Condition Overload is multiplicative with itself, so more status will have more of an impact.
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But you can fly around in the sky and shoot the Lenz. Only useless if you hate having fun.
A plea, and a suggestion, to preserve the Sniper Saryn playstyle
in Warframes
Posted
After testing, I think you are right and sniper Saryn is still viable, fun, and rewarding. The main reason, which I didn't consider, is that you don't want to re-cast spores, because that's resets your damage; instead, you want to target existing enemies, which are often far away from you. So, using a long-range weapon enables you to spread your spores more effectively by sniping the surviving enemies from across the map. This is a great rework and my suggestions are unnecessary.