[Operation: Scarlet Spear: 27.3.0]

R E W O R K

N Y X

[Loki suffers from old age and half his kit useless or very situational]

5 hours ago, Kaokasalis said:

you aren't really contributing anything to your own intentions or mine by bringing up other frames in a topic dedicated to Loki.

I  have made several threads about why (and especially how) Nyx needs a rework (that usually get 0-5 replies and are buried quickly)

but the point is, Loki isn't that much in need of a rework.

the invisibility and radial disarm alone make him an extremely good frame (and a better Nyx than Nyx). decoy and switch teleport could be better for sure (especially decoy, in fact, all abilities that create a temporary thing like gara's wall, decoy, molt, halo, iron skin, etc should follow that rule of "absorb incoming damage for the first few seconds to get more hp" to be consistant) but there's more urgent frames in need of love, and instead of trying to make DE divert resources to a frame that's 2/4 fine, said resources could (or should) be used on frames that are more in need.

or, if you prefer me to word it differently, "I don't disagree with your opinion that he needs a rework, though he's fine the way he is, especially with his augments. there's more urgent problems at hand."

[Saryn Nerf Proposal]

2 hours ago, lukinu_u said:

 she isn't really tanky

She has more armor than the majority of frames, an ability that literally restores her to full health (with the augment) AND almost 1000 health with maxed vitality. she is literally a tank.

2 hours ago, lukinu_u said:

don't have efficient crowd control, can't protect a defense objective

just press 1 and 4. no need for CC if everything in the map is dead, including sortie 3 level.

 

[Loki suffers from old age and half his kit useless or very situational]

Dunno man. I vaguely agree his kit is outdated (especially decoy), but Loki is FAR from being in need of a rework.

Get in line, there's Nyx, Hydroid, Zephyr, Chroma, Garuda and more (basically, anything that is not a nuke frame Rhino, Nidus, Nova, Nekros ) waiting for a rework first.

[It's still 2020/02, so here's 20+0+2 ideas for powercreeping Nyx back in the game]

7 hours ago, krc473 said:

You do realise we only get 4 seconds of invulnerability on the target right

this alone shows you don't even know how Nyx works... the target is invincible the entire time.

about stuff being OP : other frames are not balanced (mesa, saryn, nydus, etc). are you telling me Nyx, a CC/support frame, would become stronger than those unkillable/nuker frames with these changes? and more importantly, "any number I put here try to be balanced, but they're not to be taken literally : if it's too strong or weak, they can obviously be changed."

about nullies : Nyx needs all the help she can get. what if I spot a good MC target in a nullie bubble?

[It's still 2020/02, so here's 20+0+2 ideas for powercreeping Nyx back in the game]

Why (Nyx, CC in general and Warframe' problem) :

Nyx has fallen out of the metagame right now, simply because why bother CCing when you can press 4 with Saryn Mesa Volt some frames and kill everything instead. CCing is useless at lower level when everything dies to you just looking at them, and becomes useful only when enemy scaling becomes so impossibly high you can't kill anymore (but at this point you're better off just restarting the mission especially since you'll die if enemies look into your direction).

The idea

So, here's 20+0+2 ideas to buff Nyx back into the game, sorted in no order, though I realize perfectly some ideas might be more feasible than others (like, idea 4, I know how little DE likes touching to AI). Some of these ideas will work better if used together obviously (for example, 1 and 2 and 3). Not all ideas are to be added as she could become overwhelming efficient (though, again, Saryn Mesa Volt "some frames" are overwhelmingly powerful and nobody really cares). One last note : any number I put here try to be balanced, but they're not to be taken literally : if it's too strong or weak, they can obviously be changed.

Most of these ideas are trying to give another way to play Nyx without using a Terminator Nyx build, by making her other spells (especially her 1 and 2) more potent.

1. Psychic Bolts : amount of affected targets scale with power strength. (in a horde game like WF, having only 6 targets at a time is not worth the energy).
2. Psychic Bolts : Can now destroy nullifier bubbles.
3. New passive : for each enemy killed that was affected by Nyx's abilities, you gain +10% power strength on your next ability cast. (reason is : STR is her dumped stat - this way you can still have some use out of Absorb's damage and Mind control).
4. Mind control : You can order your Mind Controlled target to move to a certain spot or use a terminal by tapping 1 (holding 1 will release the ability).
5. Mind control Augment : Target becomes vulnerable again. All damage afflicted by enemies will be multiplied by 10 and, upon ability release (death or release of ability), target will emit a 10m pulse that deals [damage taken] to each enemy in range. Damage is not split. (example : 1000 damage stored and 5 enemies in range, 10 000 damage dealt to each enemy)
6. Mind control : Target will teleport to Nyx if further than 40m away like any specter would.
7. Mind control Augment : For every enemy killed by the mind controlled target, it will add +5 second to the duration of the ability.
8. Mind Control : duration removed entirely and target can stay Mind Controlled forever ; invulnerability removed to avoid having an potentially eternal specter that plays for you (even though some frames literally play themselves and it's ok for them)
9. Mind Control : Damage dealth by MC'd enemy will be true damage or ignore all armor (at higher level, armor negates close to all the damage they do)
10. Psychic Bolts Augment : Enemies affected by ability will glow for 5 seconds. If the enemy is killed during this window, 2 more Psychic Bolts will be emitted from the enemy. Can repeat ad infinitum. (adds a small "minigame")
11. Synergy : Casting Mind control on a recently debuffed or chaos'd enemy will not cost any energy (reason is, armor is taken in consideration when you shoot the target in the initial phase of the ability to increase damage so it actually costs 50+25 to make it optimal).
12. Synergy : Casting Psychic Bolt on Chaos'd enemies will refund 8 energy/enemy (6 bolts x 8 energy = 24 energy, ability almost refunded).
13. Chaos change : current augment fused into ability.
14. Chaos augment : Enemies that are not affected by Chaos that receive up to 15% of their hp as damage by enemies under the effect of Chaos are automatically affected by chaos as well (allows chaos to spread without recast). Duration is not refreshed (ex : 10 seconds of Chaos left, newly converted enemies will be Chaos'd for 10 seconds only)
15. Chaos augment : Enemies have a 50% chance to drop their weapon (Loki has basically chaos with his augment as well, so might as well go full circle there).
16. New ability, replaces Psychic bolts : Provoke - Nyx makes her presence known to all enemies in a large radius. All enemies will focus fire on Nyx ; for each enemy noticing her, Nyx gains +10% damage resistance and evade for the duration of the ability, caps at 90%
17. Provoke Augment - Accelerated Cognition : For each enemy affected, Nyx gains 10% timescale (caps at +90%)
18. Change to Absorb : Nyx will throw the Absorb bubble to the reticle area on ability end (Think of Goku's Genkidama - allow for easier offensive use with it)
19. Change to Absorb : Damage dealt is now true damage
20. New ability, replaces absorb : Nightmare - Turns Nyx into a specter for the duration of the ability (same mechanics as Excalibur Umbra). Creates a controllable and movable 10m sphere around Nyx ; Enemies inside the sphere for 3 seconds will take 750 slash damage with guaranteed slash proc, and will take 750 damage every additional 3 seconds with guaranteed slash proc. Upon release, any enemy inside the sphere will be affected by Chaos.
21. Nightmare Augment: Sleep paralysis - enemies inside the sphere will suffer a 25% timescale debuff (similar to Nova's MP slow) every time they suffer a slash proc. caps at -90%
22. Nightmare Augment : (no name) - Enemies permanently lose 33% armor everytime they suffer the slash proc.

Conclusion

I #*!%ing love Nyx. Her prime, and generally her fashionframe potential, is amazing. She needs something to be done to play better. Her """rework""" changed close to nothing for her. Meme frames like Vauban, Ember Mag, Wukong, Nezha got a decent rework, Nyx deserves it by now (Zephyr too, as she's in the same boat as Nyx with her """rework""" but that's another topic lmao.)

Please DE sempai notice me uwu

[Buff parkour with these easy fixes]

On 2019-09-15 at 1:11 AM, Steel_Rook said:

You don't need a reason to use wall-running and wall-jumping. What you need is the opportunity to do so. Damn near all of the old tilesets are designed with decorative ledges and sills protrusions and rough or slanting walls and so on. And then there are those spots where wall manoeuvres just don't work. There are a plurality of places I could easily get to via wall-running or wall-climbing... Except the walls there aren't climbable. There's a particular spot on Earth where a pipe leading to a loot room is set high into the ceiling, but it's damn near impossible to actually get to it. The wall leading up to it is rough rock that you can't wall-run up. Even if you bullet-jump up into the pipe, it has a lip both at the top and bottom which stops you from climbing up into it - you have to do some kind of weird angled bullet jump just shallow enough to get over the lip above you but not so shallow as to hit the lip across.

Now look at something like Jupiter Remastered. I exaggerate my use of wall manoeuvres, but on Jupiter I use them all the time. The simple fact of the matter is that tileset is set up for ziplines and perches, it's set up for long wallruns, it's set up for long wall climbs, and all of that is especially easy to do. Most of the walls are smooth, and where the walls have detailing, your Warframe will glide over them smoothly because the level designers slapped simplified invisible walls over all the jagged geometry. Sure, most people are still going to walk everywhere on Jupiter anyway, but when the map lends itself to that kind of mobility then YOU can make use of it and generally have substantially greater command of terrain than your land-locked team-mates.

Ledges catching people trying to wall-run is, in my experience, the leading cause of said people not wanting to bother wall-running.

Well you're right there - the Jupiter remaster did encourage parkouring and has a lot of verticality. I do wish DE would remaster all tilesets, but then we'd run into another different problem that this remaster created : remastering all tilesets would take really, really long (considering how long it took for a single set).

Fortuna and PoE were designed well after parkour 2.0 was made and neither really encourage parkour (though I'll give it to DE : how can you make a nature outdoors tileset which encourages parkour? even I struggle to find ways to add parkour to vast plains with little change in terrain. But what about bases? they could have had some parkour oriented things, objectives in high towers or in places where you'd need to parkour to get to).

In the end I think remastering all the tilesets (again) would be final solution, but it'd take a long long time. I think my ideas would be band aids on a larger problem, but they'd be easier/faster to implement.

 

On 2019-09-15 at 12:30 AM, Kainosh said:

No, i constantly parcour apparently.  Pretty sure even more than you do (because you said that its hard to use...its not)

I tried Arcane Arachne (gives damage bonus for latching) and its not really fun.  Doesnt make it more ninja at all...just gives bigger damage numbers. 

I said it's "harder than just sprinting and bullet jumping", not just "hard" (and well in some places, it is legitimately hard to do, because of how ornate and parkour unfriendly rooms are - PoE, Fortuna, grinner galleon & Void for example).

All enemies pre sortie level already die in (almost) one hit anyway so the Arachne bonus is overkill (and I'm not asking for a damage bonus, but evasion bonus - you're making yourself vulnerable and out of cover, you need survivability, not more damage). Though I still don't get your aversion to a bonus from parkour ... why are you against getting one? it's the same as refusing to use a mod because "I don't want the extra damage, thanks, I prefer lower numbers" ...

 

13 hours ago, --RV--Silverdk said:

This would make me quit the game 

good. This is probably never going to be implemented, like I said that'd be a change to the game's pathing system, and not a quick fix like the other ideas, that'd require a lot of work, it's way out of scope of what I initially wanted.

 

13 hours ago, Ely.I said:

you need to play the game longer

 this has been in the game for the longest time, you just are unaware apparently.

I am MR 24 and I played the game for well over 2000 hour when even Oberon was one of the newest frame and coptering existed, and I fully know about rolling and less accuracy from movement (and I don't care if you don't believe me). It still doesn't fix the problem that parkour makes you more exposed and likely to die even with the reduced accuracy (which also applies to you, it's harder or not possible at all in some case, to attack) AND is harder to perform than just run/slide/bullet jump.

can you stop trying to belittle me for a minute because you don't agree, or is it too much to ask you?

13 hours ago, Ely.I said:

you need to play the game longer, there's a legit issue with the levels, missions, bosses; the game in general not encouraging the parkour system, which is one of the best there are already, that's the only problem, the parkour system is fine, people bullet jump because it's faster and nothing else is encouraged, you don't need buff to encourage it, just a fun level design where it feels great to traverse using the different moving maneuvers we have at our disposition, just because you don't want or know how to properly move doesn't mean everyone else is like you. Also i suggest you stop caring what everyone else does in your missions and just play however you want to play.

Lastly you get damage reduction while rolling, and enemies have decreased accuracy while you're maneuvering in the air, this has been in the game for the longest time, you just are unaware apparently. There are other arguments to moot all and every single one of your points but who has the time.

in response to the bold part : it's literally what you need though. How do you encourage the use of something in a game? in any video game? by buffing it to make it on par with the alternatives ... it's literally basic game design logic. (Or by forcing situations where you need to do it (but bullet jumping is, again, superior, so it'd be hard to force it.))

So, it's buffing, or reworking tiles. One would take literal years, and the other solution is a quick, easy generic band aid to help alleviate the issue by giving you reasons to do it. It's not magic science, and I don't claim it's going to magically fix the tilesets that don't let you parkour, but it'd give you a reason to try to do it at least.

It'd just encourage you to be less of a power ranger and more of a ninja in a game for ninjas in space (which slogan is literally "ninjas play free"). If everyone in Gears of War or CoD (or Battlefield or Arma or {your favorite military FPS} ) suddenly started jumping around like a Mario game, or if people in Gran Turismo or Forza suddenly got rocket launchers in their cars (or ... ninjas (who are well known for parkour) didn't use any parkour) and you said "this isn't what it's supposed to be like", wouldn't it be a valid complain?

[General post III]

20 minutes ago, Exqualater said:

1. How about adding the function of automatic discharge double mods? All single modes are deleted, with the exception of one. For example, there is a redirection mod. Now I have it 13. As soon as I click on the automatic. selection, the ability to stand out 12 duplicates of this mod, and remain 1. Moreover, the best mod remains. That is, if I have a redirect mod, improved to 4 values, then this mod will remain with me.

Until DE adds the ability to downgrade mods, it's a bad idea. how are you going to use serration with sentinels? you'll only have one, for 2 weapons.

What about having unranked or partially ranked mods for frames or builds you haven't bothered to finish? partially ranked mods are always useful.

[Buff parkour with these easy fixes]

7 hours ago, Iamabearlulz said:

If you don't consider that a real change to the game, can you even tell the difference between Minecraft and Fortnite? Do you know what the word "change" means?

I still play the game exactly the same.

Wallrunning is 90% the same (just no animation lock, and a new animation when running on the wall). Also ziplines act differently (I don't use them, I bullet jump through any bottomless pits, so it doesn't count), and wall clinging was introduced (I think? I don't even remember if it was before, because there's so little use for it... so it can't count). The only real change is the bullet jump which was supposed to replace coptering (and was supposed to go as fast as it, according to DE).

If you consider new animations replacing old ones, or any small change as the kind of "fundamental change about the core aspect of the game" I was talking about then I guess every update is like a brand new game for you. I wish I was you.

 

7 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

Can we please stop making comments like these? Just because YOU PERSONALLY don't do specific things doesn't mean nobody does. I don't necessarily disagree with everything in the OP, but don't argue in bad faith, please. Don't try to tell me what I do and don't do.

Friend, like I said in the OP, go ahead and record a 10 minute game where you do nothing but look at how your teamates play. Focus solely on that. Record 1000 of them, if you want,  but the results will be the same. Bullet jump is the main maneuver in WF. Watch streamers, youtubers showing their builds, random players ingame, it's all you see, bullet jump into rolling/sliding, and the occasional wall bounce (to recharge bullet jump).

What if you don't use bullet jump so much, and use a lot of parkour? that's great, friend! Unfortunately, the 19-million-or-so other players don't.

That said, I don't even want it nerfed. Don't touch it at all, leave it as it is.

I just want a reason to use something else instead of that one maneuver that's so immensely superior.

 

7 hours ago, Rawbeard said:

he could have mailed the easy fixes to DE then. it's easy, isn't it? since he understands it so well it should have been solved within one or two replies

"wtf if your so smart why didnt you fix it already lmao" or is it "how DARE YOU try to criticize something to improve it!!!?" with you?

 

5 hours ago, Kainosh said:

And what if i dont want to get that bonus? Should i avoid using parcour because it applies unwanted buffs? 

Basically, yea. You've been playing WF without using them, right? so what's the issue? Just keep playing the same way, and let those who want a buff get it.

[Buff parkour with these easy fixes]

@Avienas

Yea, I agreee with basically all of this, though I don't see DE change such a huge chunk of the game so late in it's life (same with damage 3.0, I don't think it'll ever be done, because you'll need to rework a ton of other thing. You'd almost be better of making Warframe 2 than change such a big core of the game. Even melee 3.0 I am doubtful will happen, they've been  suspiciously quiet about it...). I am glad to see someone else agrees about not being able to fit parkour mods (even in exilus slot) in their builds, and honestly if I have to use 3 or 4 mods to justify using parkour, maybe there's a problem with parkour in the first place...

DE trapped themselves in a corner. Doing any kind of big change would be a huge risk. Damage 3.0, melee 3.0, mods 3.0, riven band aid, etc, all requires a huge amount of work, and/or might throw off old players and they'll risk losing their player base. (Rivens in particular, generate a lot of plat, so they can't remove them anymore, and the rivens are a cause for a huge part of powercreep, same as serration, vitality, etc - all mods give such a big bonus that the difference between having and not having them is huge. You can't balance Warframe because of those mods).

Honestly, what/when was the last real change to the game? parkour 2.0 just added more mobility, PoE/open worlds are just bigger tilesets, new gamemodes/frames/powers/guns/mods/companions/vehicles don't change the core of the game, melee 2.0 just barely changed anything. Even Railjack won't change much, it'll just add mission types and how to reach nodes. The last real change to the core of the game was mods 2.0 or damage 2.0, whichever came first, many years ago. One can only hope, and regret at how much potential DE is wasting on their game.

But back on topic, but all people do is bullet jump simply because it's a superior option. I wish it had some kind of nerf, like a cooldown but I'm honestly not asking for that much, just for a buff to parkour.

• Need to go upstairs? don't use the walls to wallrun, bullet jump.
• Need to traverse a big gap? don't wallrun, bullet jump through it.
• Need to go fast? bullet jump into roll into aim glide

I find myself not using it on purpose ingame sometimes, and I feel like the game is much better like that. Makes me think about my movement.

[Buff parkour with these easy fixes]

17 minutes ago, Kainosh said:

True reason is simple: there is no need.  Floor is not lava, and levels are not that complex.   Parcour is extreemely optional and no buffs will make it super popular

Well that part is true. That's why I suggest making it better, if you buff it there will be a use for it. Remember how melee was before we got the damage scaling from multipliers? I bet people thought similarly. "Melee is optional, guns work just fine".

Like I said, it's a game about ninjas (even thought we kinda gave up the edo/ninja aesthetic for a power ranger tier feeling). Give me reasons to act like a ninja, even if they're artificial reasons to get a small buff or go faster.

[Buff parkour with these easy fixes]

8 minutes ago, Jiminez_Burial said:

No, appearance shouldn't affect gameplay.

Well, it does for Chroma 😛 Maybe make it be the first or second emissive color?

Or not, tbh if this change isn't even added, it wouldn't be a tragedy. It was an afterthought, I'm more interested in the wall cling/hopping changes.

[Nyx Mind Control changes I'd like to see]

6 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Except that's not at all what I suggested.

how is it not? having multiple controlled enemies with health that's scaled? it's literally the shadows, except you don't rely on STR.

 

[Buff parkour with these easy fixes]

This is a very high IQ opinion but for a game about space NINJAS, parkour is incredibly underwhelming and hard to use and unrewarding. I find myself playing WF like Gears of War (except for bullet jumping) and if you pay attention to your playstyle, you do the same. When was the last time you used wall cling or wall running intentionally (and not to recharge bullet jumping?). And if you take a look at your allies, too, they are exactly the same (and I mean literally, stalk them for an entire mission, and keep count on each of the manoeuvre they do. I guarantee you'll see 80% bullet jump, 15% roll, 5% rest).

Here's why your "fixes" don't help and how to solve the problem (somewhat) easily.

• Mods like this shouldn't exist. I don't want to sacrifice armor, life or strength/range/efficiency/duration for parkouring (thanks to the meta being "kill everything in every modes".). what good does having +25% bullet jump strength does, or bullet jump doing 250 fire damage, if I die constantly because I had to sacrifice life or armor mods for it? ("Exilus mods are there for a reason" there's much more useful mods than parkour mods to use there, and I'm not even talking of mods which give more strength/range/efficiency/duration).
  • Change this particular mod (why does an ENDURANCE test give me a MOBILITY mod anyway), and add the effect to parkour by default
  • Change bullet jump mods to have another desired effect instead
  • Do not add the current bullet jump mod effects to bullet jump (bullet jump is strong/efficient/used enough as it is).
  • Make bullet jump do status effect depending on your warframe's color (redish color = fire damage, blue = ice, etc)
• Parkour does not keep ANY momentum. Using any kind of parkour with Volt is a tragedy as you get reset to base speed.
  • Make parkour keep all your momentum. I think it's an obvious fix.
• Wall cling doesn't last long enough to really do much (plus you're vulnerable during it, no cover, no movement)
  • Make wall cling last much longer, on par with Loki's passive. You're a space robot ninja with super powers who can literally murder an army by themselves, not a fat kid holding to a wall trying to not fall.
    • It won't make you invincible/able to cheese against melee enemies - not more than a lot of frames/powers/abilities. All factions have a way to make you go down the walls anyway AND there's always ranged enemies too.
  • Change Loki's passive, obviously
  • Give a small(ish) damage evasion buff when you do any parkour , stops 1 second after you stop parkouring, so that if you wall latch you won't be downed too fast
• Parkour is hard to do and slower than just bullet jump into roll
  • Make the parkour hitbox bigger (so you can be slightly further away from the wall when doing parkour - lets you do parkour more easily on natural surfaces like trees, cave walls, roots, etc)
  • buff wall hoping (both vertical and horizontal) this way:
    • first wall hop makes you move at normal speed
    • second makes you go at sprinting speed
    • third makes you go 50% faster than sprinting
    • any additional hop will keep you at that speed.

 

The following is a harder fix to do (all the above should be fairly easy) and would be considered parkour 2.5, but I have to mention these fixes too.

• You are vulnerable during parkour, and can't fight back.
  • bring back actual wall running which would semi lock the player into the animation, and let me even shoot during it (again, future super space ninja soldier who can murder thousands easily) - even if it's just the secondary
• As long as there is a surface to wall run on, make it so the player switches automatically to that surface if holding the parkour button
  • The warframe will automatically jump from the end of a wall to the next wall if it's within a certain distance
  • If a wall is a bit further away inside (2 walls, not in a straight line), then your warframe will automatically move towards it

[Nyx Mind Control changes I'd like to see]

5 hours ago, AdunSaveMe said:

I don't think giving it essentially the same function as Celestial Twin is the way to go.

"instead I think giving it the same function as Nekros' shadows is better".

[Good reliable primary+secondary at ~MR8?]

honestly literally any guns that aren't MK1 and the Seer will melt starchart enemies (and even then, with the right mods, even these can carry you up to sorties easily)

it's not the weapons that matter, it's the mods. just upgrade serration.

[Thrown glaives need a buff (how to, with zero stats change)]

22 hours ago, taiiat said:

you literally asked for a Mod as your solution, but a Mod does already exist that does much of the same thing. make up your mind.

how about you re-read my mod suggestion to know the difference between "explosion on contact with surface, zero bouncing" and "bouncing, with guaranteed explosion on target hit" (coupled with my suggestion to add some kind of lock on mechanism, which enhances the explosion greatly).

 

22 hours ago, taiiat said:

i wouldn't call the Explosion miniscule, it's something like 5-6 Meters - which i call pretty solid for infinite Ammo and having good Status.

when you're far from the target so gauging distances is hard, plus the target is moving AND you are moving as well (and I won't mention lag and how fast the glaives moves, or particles, light effects, projectiles and allies and other things possibly obstructing vision) 5 meter is minuscule. and even more importantly you need to be in melee mode to proc the explosion ... melee mode with your glaive thrown away - meaning you have no means of attacks, relying exclusively on an unreliable explosion).

[Thrown glaives need a buff (how to, with zero stats change)]

10 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

That said, wouldn't it be more effective to give glaives a lot more homing capabilities rather than implementing an Ash-like targeting mechanic? There's weird behaviours to fuss out with the latter, like the Orvius's charged throw, while the former can achieve the same effect without making a huge change to how players use it. E.g., we can still bounce it off a wall and hit something around a corner or chuck it down a hallway (except, with more magnetism, we can do so much more reliably). Plus, the homing system is there—the Orvius has it, a little bit—it just needs to be cranked up and reapplied on each bounce so it can multitarget.

it's another way to solve the problem, and it works too, but with magnetism you can't know what will get tracked automatically, I'd prefer to be in control of what gets locked/hit personally.

 

9 hours ago, taiiat said:

- Power Throw already already makes a Thrown Melee perform the Channeling Detonation upon the last bounce. you can also trigger this manually at any time (by Channeling, obviously) to place the Explosion are a precise location.

true but you have to sacrifice a mod slot for it (it's like saying a weapon with terrible ammo economy is ok because you can put ammo mutation mods on it - you're still sacrificing valuable damage for utility) AND the enemy has to be close to a wall (or aim at the ground near him, limiting your vision).

edit : I guess it's the whole point of utility over damage, but the problem is that it still isn't reliable due to the minuscule AoE ... plus it kinda removes what makes glaives unique : the ability to be thrown and bounce. if I wanted a boom, I'd shoot a gun that makes booms, not use a thrown disc that takes time to charge (and for usually less damage than my main or secondary weapon). the AoE is just a cherry on top of the cake, not the cake itself.

 

and like I said, have YOU ever tried, even in the simulacrum with ais turned off, to detonate the glaive mid flight and hit enemies with the AoE? really try it, and count how many tries it takes you. it's extremely difficult, and that'd be in a controlled environment with nothing else to worry about. in a real game ... good luck doing that efficiently (it took you 1 minute to kill up to 3 enemies with a cool melee trick, while if you had been playing normally you'd have killed 10 times more).

[Thrown glaives need a buff (how to, with zero stats change)]

2 minutes ago, krc473 said:

I feel like these two points could be combined. You have a mod that when equipped gives lock on - unranked it targets four, +one per rank. 

It's also a possibility, but you'd have to sacrifice a mod slot for it. I'd still take either solutions to "no changes", lol. As for the Orvius ... I guess it could be disabled for it. I admit I didn't consider it at all.

4 minutes ago, krc473 said:

I could be in the minority here, but I like my thrown melee not locking on to targets. My build works just fine without this, it can still kill enemies fairly easily.  

you'll still be dealing damage to one (or two, or three if you're very lucky and they're lined up) enemy. Locking on would would make it more capable of dealing with multiple targets that are spread apart.

 

I am making this suggestion in hope it gets reviewed for melee 3.0. 😀

[Thrown glaives need a buff (how to, with zero stats change)]

Dear DE, I got an idea on how to buff the thrown attack of glaives, without touching any stats or impacting riven power in any way.

I am exclusively talking of the glaive as a thrown melee (and the AOE it has), not the glaive as a melee weapon.

WHY BUFF THEM

Because of the very fast paced nature of WF, throwing your glaive is usually a terrible idea. The damage it deals in thrown mode is rarely worth not being able to use melee anymore. Nobody uses the mods to make glaives bounce more, or speed up flight, simply because it's not worth it, when you could add MOAR DAMAGE to it, which is frankly the only way to mod weapons.

In short :

• Throwing the glaives will leave you without melee until it returns
• Damage isn't high enough to make it worth it
• Trying to detonate the glaive mid flight to hit the enemy is terribly difficult
  • With how fast glaives move, enemy moving as well and potential lag, hitting something with the AOE is almost impossible unless you focus on it exclusively, which puts you in danger or makes you useless ("yay I hit 2 enemies after 4 tries!" whereas you could have killed 10 times more while playing normally)
  • Reach does not (afaik) make the AoE larger
• Even just hitting enemies isn't easy (and once the glaive has bounced just once, it's basically lost until it returns and will not hit any enemy - it has zero tracking/magnetism)
  • Reach barely helps with this issue for the initial hit, and has absolutely no use once the glaives bounces

 

HOW TO BUFF THEM

My idea does not require any stat change whatsoever to glaives.

1. During the charging animation, you can lock on enemies, and that guarantees that this enemy will be hit (provided there is LoS) once the glaive is released from charge. Maximum of 4 targets.
2. Also add a mod that increases the amount of locked on targets.
3. Add a mod that gives a X% chance (100% chance at max rank) of the glaive doing it's AoE on the last locked on enemy (before it returns to you).

Result of these changes :

• When using thrown glaives, you will now deal damage to a minimum of 4 enemies guaranteed (plus any other that may be in the path of the glaive). No more missing because of enemies moving or lag!
• The first mod also increases guaranteed damage indirectly by guaranteeing more hits
• The second mod forces a AoE to proc, significantly raising the damage the glaive will do on the last hit

 

I believe my ideas wouldn't break the game's balance (since all of it is already things in the game with, again, zero stat changes). It's just QoL for glaives, the coolest weapons.

[With Nyx's rework she needs a new augment for her 1. Here's one]

18 minutes ago, 1pedepano said:

Regarding the absorb, I would channel all the damage absorbed to the weapon that was in use in case it would be a modification in the assimilate mod.

so, the more damage the target receives during the duration of the ability, the more power he gets? isn't it basically the proposed solution by DE, except it's *our* damage and only during the first few seconds of the ability? seems redundant.

[With Nyx's rework she needs a new augment for her 1. Here's one]

2 hours ago, krc473 said:

The problem with this description is that an Absorb Bubble means something in game already. Hence why I was suggesting a change. Something about "a sphere that stores a percentage of the damage dealt to the MC'd enemy, releasing on death/ability expiration".

• To me, it just sounds more like the enemy would explode when the ability expires - the enemy could be invincible. For balance reasons you would probably need to sacrifice an amount of duration. 

I cannot say your suggestion is actually bad. Just that it is not for me - because I like to keep my enemy. This is personal preference.

I understand the confusion. I'll edit the OP. thanks

[With Nyx's rework she needs a new augment for her 1. Here's one]

30 minutes ago, krc473 said:

There are augments that straight up enhance one aspect of an ability though. Resonance for example - hitting the Sonar spot essentially recasts Sonar at a reduced duration. Chroma's Afterburn mod literally adds damage based on ability duration. Then you have Khora's Accumulating Whipclaw ability that allows successive hits to stack extra damage. You could even argue that Excalibur's Chromatic Blade augment adds damage - a 100% viral proc could be justified as adding damage. Then we could go into all the augments that allow abilities to strip armour. They all increase the damage output. *This is not an exhaustive list, I decided I had enough examples.

You're mistaking what I'm talking about. These augments, and (afaik) all augments, make the ability stronger, you're right about it, but not by buffing the numbers of the ability itself. which is what Mind Freak would do (because now the MF effect is included in the base ability). "But me not having to shoot the target is a buff, I don't spend time on it" technically you'd be right with this argument ... but it's a lazy augment. Imagine if an augment just allowed to skip charging any ability and have it at max power instantly (like thurible or Ember/Hydroid's 1). It works ... but I'd prefer a completely new effect/way of using the ability.

Augments buff the ability by adding a new effect to it. Chromablade doesn't read "Exalted blade now deal 100% more damage", it adds an effect that makes it stronger depending on the energy color. Afterburn does not straight up make Chroma's 1 do more damage, it adds an effect that throws a fireball, etc, I won't dissect every augment, but the final result is that the ability being more powerful/efficient because it has another layer to it.

It's like weapon augments, they don't buff the base damage like serration would, they add an effect/ability to the weapon, and that addition is a buff. Augs make the weapon (or ability) more powerful in the end, but not by boosting numbers.

40 minutes ago, krc473 said:

The point I was making is that the description needed a slight change. Because what you were proposing was not an Absorb bubble.

it can still be an absorb bubble, just it will act differently than Nyx's 4. I leave the subtleties to DE ; the idea is the important part : turning the target into a remote bomb.  

[With Nyx's rework she needs a new augment for her 1. Here's one]

23 minutes ago, krc473 said:

Does she though? Why cant the current augment just stack with the rework? Surely what will happen now is some synergy between the current augment and the updated ability. This should add more value to the augment than before - if enemies get a reasonable amount of damage, multiplying that is better. 

 

25 minutes ago, Recel said:

I'm not sure she actually needs a new one. I mean, the new proposed rework doesn't conflict with the augment, it simply enhances it. They could work additively for a more Mind Control centred build.

You guys know that the purpose of an augment is to change how the ability works, right? It's not just supposed to just straight buff it. It adds an additional effect or modifies the ability and that is the buff, it's not like "base ability does +x% damage" like her current augment would. There is no augment that straight buffs the base ability damage numbers.

 

23 minutes ago, krc473 said:

As for your suggestion: I do not like it at all. I would not use this. I have always used MC and tried to keep the same enemy for a while - I do not want it to die. The current augment is far, far superior to your suggestion in this respect.  

• If the enemies are not preferentially targeting the controlled target, it will be fairly useless regardless.

  

As a side question: can a player die from enemy fire while absorb is active? (is an absorb bubble the best way to describe your proposed augment?)

If you don't like the augment and prefer to keep the ability like it is and keep your target alive, you're free to not use the augment. Obviously it's just to add a layer of depth to it, and give you more options.

I don't really get your question. if the player stays inside the MC target's bubble, is he invincible? no. it's just subtleties that DE can figure out, like the bubble isn't literally an absorb bubble, it can just he a halo, light effect, shader, or attacks could go through it.

[With Nyx's rework she needs a new augment for her 1. Here's one]

All numbers are just examples and not final ideas and can (should) be tweaked. The important part is the idea, not the number (or names).

With Nyx's rework, and her augment being added in the base ability, she needs a new augment for her 1. Here's mine. I have pondered for a long time on the state of Nyx (she is my favorite prime, have you seen her helmet or what!?) and how to rework her but never posted it, and I think it's time to not let my chance slip away.

New Augment : Pain Link

• Effect : The mind controlled target stores all damage done to it. Upon death, all damage stored is multiplied by 5 and distributed evenly to all enemies with a LoS on it in a 15m radius. Friendly fire (from Tennos) is ignored.
• Example : Infested charger suffers 100 total damage from 5 lancers and dies. 4 lancers are in range with LoS, they suffer 500 damage each (4x500, not 500:4).
• Balancing : I used the number x5 for the damage amplification as it is the double as Octavia's 1 (both are 1st abilities), but Octavia's hit multiple times (even multiple times/second depending on the mandachord) whereas my augment hits only once.
• Usage : You will now have 3 different things to consider when picking a target to MC : the utility it'll provide (aura from eximus/ancients), the damage/tanking/CC it can provide (heavy units/eximus), the damage it will do upon death as a suicide unit (light units that rush the enemy to get in range).

Thoughts?