PsycloneM
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Posts posted by PsycloneM
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No abilities were ignored with bias, because I was not interested in testing how quickly a warframe can travel using only their powers. That was not the purpose of these tests. The ability that I was using (Rhino Charge) was the one that I was primarily interested in.
However with just running speed alone, yes, a charging Rhino does move faster (even if it is for a very short duration) than Loki and Volt with Speed activated. Again, the point was not to see who's the fastest, but to see what the value of 48 really meant, if that value and the 0.35 second duration were accurate, and to determine what sprint speed is.
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Just played as Mag Prime in Void Exterminate 3.
Pull: Since when Mag's pull only knocks down enemies and not pulling them towards you in ragdoll (pulling, not launching into space :) )? And it seems like you need line of sight for this ability now (as was mentioned in this thread). I think there's something wrong =(
Crush: As was mentioned - no recovery after crushing. It's back in U8-U9 times, and it's totally wrong. =(
Yeah, not to mention Vauban's Vortex does not pull in enemies consistently. I wonder if there's a relationship between these two issues.
So does this test include volts speed ability or just a basic dash. If its his basic dash then the test is flawed. Also Loki has a Teleport which should also be used in the test if you think that is either unfair or not the same then the test is flawed. I'm just trying to give Volt my personal main a fair shake. Volt speed is unmatched by any other frame in the game not question his speed buff is a percentage which is better over all then a number. Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents.
Volt is sprinting with Speed activated: four trials with no power strength, and four trials with +40% power strength. That information should be in the post. Even then, why would the test be flawed? Whether Volt is using Speed or not, I would still be able to measure his actual movement speed and determine the relationship between that value and his sprint speed.
I also fail to see how the test would be flawed if I don't include Loki teleporting. The test was about determining what sprint speed is, the accuracy of the original datamined values, and the significance of the 48 m/s speed. Making Loki use Switch Teleport while I'm trying to measure his speed would derail the trial.
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Thanks, guys. I'm glad this topic has been useful.
Let's talk about Rhino Charge and warframe sprint speed for a moment. When Rhino Charge is activated, Rhino moves at a speed of 48 over a 0.35 s duration according to CitizenV's datamining. I recently set out to perform some tests in hopes of being able to answer a few questions:
- Are the values of 48 and 0.35 accurate, and how does power duration affect them?
- What units does the speed value have?
- What is sprint speed? Does it have units of m/s, or is it a constant?
To test all of this, I recorded individual trials in FRAPS, uncompressed the files to be opened in QuickTime, and used the movie inspector to examine the current time of each frame (accurate to the nearest hundredth of a second). In each trial I centered the warframe over a navigation mark, and sprinted (or charged) in a straight line over several tens of meters. I did this for Rhino, Loki, and Volt.
For Rhino, I recorded the difference of time between the beginning of his charge to the end when all momentum is lost. For each warframe, I also recorded the time it took for each to travel 10 m while at top speed. From this, I was able to measure each warframe's 10-m dash time, and estimate each warframe's top speed in m/s. Here are the results:
Rhino
No power duration mods:
+30% power duration:
Loki
Volt
No power strength mods:
+40% power strength:
So, are CitizenV's datamined values accurate? I would argue that they are. The measured 0.37 second duration is well within uncertainties caused by error. For one, each video has a limited number of frames per second (with my hardware, that's generally 40-60 fps with FRAPS). As the measured duration decreases, so does the accuracy of the measurement as there are simply not enough frames to capture all of the information. Second of all, the in-game navigation marker rounds its values down, similar to how damage is rounded.
I used the measured duration to estimate Rhino's speed in m/s (due to the error described before, the error introduced here will be larger). The estimated value of 44 m/s leads me to believe that the value of 48 from datamining uses similar units. To prove this and the accuracy of the original datamined values, I took snap shots of Rhino's final position after charging relative to the navigation marker:
No power duration mods:
+30% power duration:
The displayed "16 m" in the first image indicates that Rhino is anywhere between 16 m and 17 m away from the marker. If Rhino is traveling 48 m/s over 0.35 s, Rhino would have covered 16.8 m.
From the data I posted earlier, you can also see that additional power duration increases the amount of time that Rhino charges, and his speed. In the second image with +30% power duration, the displayed "28 m" indicates that Rhino is anywhere between 28 m and 29 m away from the marker. If Rhino is traveling 48 x 1.3 = 62.4 m/s over 0.35 x 1.3 = 0.455 s, Rhino would have covered 28.392 m.
Now what about sprint speed? From the data, Loki travels at an estimated 8.73 m/s, yet has a sprint speed of 1.25. Volt travels at an estimated 10.44 m/s with Speed activated, yet has a sprint speed of 1 x ( 1 + 0.5 ) = 1.5. What seems to be happening is that sprint speed really is a constant, and that a warframe with 1 sprint speed travels ~ 7 m/s.
Loki has a sprint speed of 1.25. So that's 7 x 1.25 = 8.75 m/s, which agrees very well with what I've observed. Volt has a sprint speed of 1.5 with Speed: 7 x 1.5 = 10.5 m/s, which is also very close to what I've observed.
Now with +40% power strength, Volt travels at an estimated 11.87 m/s. His sprint speed is now 1 x ( 1 + 0.5 x 1.4 ) = 1.7. So, this leaves us with a speed of 7 x 1.7 = 11.9 m/s.
I'll test this further some other time to make sure this is really what's going on. I would also like to see if I can measure a more accurate Slash Dash distance with Excalibur, and see how all of this affects Zephyr's Tail Wind. To summarize:
- The speed value of 48, and the duration of 0.35 s are accurate, and both are affected by power duration.
- This speed value has units of m/s.
- Warframe sprint speeds do not seem to be actual speeds; rather, they are constants that are multiplied to a base speed of 7 m/s. While this conclusion fits well with observations, it needs to be tested further with other warframes to make sure there really is a trend.
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No need to apologize. I was genuinely curious to know if that's what you were observing.
I've been talking to the wiki contributor who added the previous damage calculation. I changed the Hysteria article to match my observations (which I've reinforced with screenshots and calculations here in the forums), but I'm still awaiting his results after I asked him to test solo. So if you were actually observing a 7.7x crit damage multiplier, that would make matters very interesting.
As for slam attacks, they only use the described damage formula when making direct hits on the enemy. Basically, the enemy has to be underneath you when you attack. As such, critical damage and chance apply to direct hits, and multiple enemies can be hit simultaneously. Otherwise, enemies within the 5-meter AoE will take 300 damage (100 impact, 100 puncture, 100 slash) that decreases with distance. This AoE damage is unaffected by power strength, and can perform head shots.
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Hysteria is supposed to receive an animation rework some time, although from what I understand, will be separate from Melee 2.0.
@Cyrionn
You're welcome. However, take a look at this. It does not appear to be the case that Hysteria adopts whatever critical chance your melee weapon has. A base 30% seems to be added to your weapon's crit chance; Hysteria with Dual Ichor or Jat Kittag will have a crit chance around 70% and 38% respectively, not 40% and 8%.
Also, I wouldn't consider dealing 4x melee damage to stunned enemies from Paralysis to be an exploit, especially when there are plenty of other powers that allow you to do the same.
@Ruriko
The second crit number is not indicative of Nova's influence with Molecular Prime. Valkyr is capable of producing both crit values on her own. Also, where are you getting 7.7x crit damage? Is that something you're observing, or did you reference that from the wiki? From what I'm seeing, Hysteria just adopts whatever crit damage your melee weapon has. So with Dual Ichor that's a maximum of 5.7x.
Regardless, the point still stands. Given the damage formula, if all melee weapons are to receive a damage boost for Melee 2.0 and if new mods are released that increase critical chance/damage and normal attack damage further, that could have a significant effect on Hysteria's final damage output. While it's a possibility, we won't know for sure until Melee 2.0 arrives.
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I wanted to determine how the critical chance of your weapon affects Hysteria.
I tested three different weapons: Dual Zoren, Plasma Sword, and Jat Kittag; each with a 40%, 24%, and 8% critical chance with True Steel. For each weapon, I recorded 300 Hysteria strikes. I observed 212 crits for Dual Zoren, 153 crits for Plasma Sword, and 105 crits for Jat Kittag. That's roughly a 71%, 51%, and 35% critical chance for Hysteria with each respective weapon.
What seems to be happening is that your weapon's critical chance is being added to a base 30%. For Dual Zoren, Plasma Sword, and Jat Kittag that's 70%, 54%, and 38% respectively with True Steel equipped. So it is not the case that Hysteria's original 50% crit rate is being replaced by that of your weapon. I'll look into this further when I have the time.
As for Paralysis, I'm sure you are all aware of the stealth attacks you can perform on stunned enemies. Just in case some of you were unfamiliar, the stun also places enemies in a state of unawareness for a short period of time. So just like Radial Blind, Bastille, Invisibility, and Smoke Screen, Paralysis allows you to inflict 4x melee damage to stunned enemies, including damage from Hysteria:
With Jat Kittag, Pressure Point, Spoiled Strike, Organ Shatter, Focus, and Steel Charge, Hysteria's regular attacks will inflict:
[ 300 + 1.3 x 1.75 x 80 x ( 1 + 0.6 + 2.2 ) ] x ( 3.25 / 3 ) = 1073 damage to Infested chargers ( 3059 and 6119 critical damage ). The attack captured above was a 6119-damage crit with the 4x damage multiplier from Paralysis: 6119.425 x 4 = 24478 total damage.
With the same set up, Hysteria's regular attacks will inflict:
[ 300 + 1.3 x 1.75 x 80 x ( 1 + 0.6 + 2.2 ) ] x ( 3.15 / 3 ) = 1040 damage to ancient disrupters ( 2965 and 5931 critical damage ). The attack captured above was a 5931-damage crit that scored a head shot (the splatter sound effect was played). For critical damage, the head shot multiplier is 4x: 5931.135 x 4 = 23724.54. On top of this, we have the 4x damage multiplier from Paralysis: 23724.54 x 4 = 94898 total damage.
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Since the tornados can be charged with elemental damage - could anyone make a list what colour is what damage type?
Their standard blue is magnetic, that one's obvious. Fire damage is orange. Then I've noticed red and green so far, but don't know their damage types. I don't have Zephyr (yet), so I can't do this myself.
Cold:
Electricity:
Heat:
Toxin:
Blast:
Gas:
Magnetic (default):
Radiation:
Viral:
It seems you cannot make corrosive damage tornadoes. If you could, I'd assume they'd be vivid green.
Those two are pretty much the last things left that I want to know. Thank you for your diligence and specificity, Psyclone.
Hey, no problem. I'll look into it when I have the time.
Psyclone, do you know if the range of the explosion from Dive Bomb is affected by the height at which you cast it, a la Heavy Impact?
I don't think I've seen it penetrate Punch Through-worthy surfaces either...
Height does not seem to have an effect on the blast radius. I made several observations, and the minimum-damage blast radius was very similar to the radius when activating Dive Bomb after using Tail Wind. I used Dive Bomb immediately after jumping against a clustered group of Infested while cloaked, and there were several chargers that took no damage outside of the blast. Using Tail Wind while all other enemies were stunned, I activated Dive Bomb near maximum height, and the same group of chargers were unaffected. Someone should check me on this to make sure our observations are in agreement.
You are right about the damage not being able to pass through obstacles.
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I don't even know if the stun is affected by duration mods.
It's not.
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One of the reasons why I don't like the current Miasma is the fact that its damage (DPS and total) decreases with additional power duration. I'm not sure if this mechanic was intentional.
I can understand having to choose between powers when corrupted mods are added to the build: you sacrifice the effectiveness of one or more powers for the benefit of others. A player should not have to choose between a low-damage Miasma and a high-duration Venom/Molt/Contagion considering the mods used to achieve this have no inherent penalties. I would rather see Miasma scale positively with power duration, as it did before Saryn's recent changes.
Saryn, Trinity (power duration and Energy Vampire), and possibly Valkyr (additional power range appears to increase the distance enemies are marked for Hysteria) are the only warframes that I can think of that have these sort of mechanics.
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Zephyr
I've added most of the missing damage information for Zephyr's abilities in the wiki.
Tail Wind has two sources of damage. When used on the ground, Tail Wind inflicts 250
impact damage in an AoE centered on Zephyr's point of launch. Enemies in the AoE are knocked down, and take less damage the farther they are from the launch point. Power strength affects the damage, power duration affects Zephyr's maximum height, and power range affects the size of the launch AoE.Tail Wind also inflicts 250
slash damage in a small AoE around Zephyr when the power is used in the air. Power strength increases the damage, power duration affects the distance traveled, and power range affects the striking radius around Zephyr. Similar to other slash damage powers, Tail Wind's dash component has a low status chance.The mechanics of the dash component seem to be very similar to that of Slash Dash and Rhino Charge, more so the latter. Power duration appears to affect the distance traveled in two instances: Zephyr's speed, and the duration of flight. So just like Rhino Charge, Tail Wind scales non-linearly with power duration.
I do not agree with the 25-meter dash distance that's listed in the wiki. From what I've observed, the distance is much closer to 14-15 m. However with Continuity, I do observe a ~ 25-meter distance.
( 15 m ) x 1.3 x 1.3 = 25 m
I'm not sure what the state of datamining is at this time, but it would be great if we could confirm if Zephyr's dash component has a base speed and duration that are both affected by power duration mods. This seems to be what's happening here, but I cannot verify if that's really the case.
Dive Bomb inflicts a minimum of 250
impact damage in an AoE. The actual damage dealt by this power seems to depend on the height at which the power is used. Damage is affected by power strength, and power range affects the AoE. If Tail Wind's base launch height is accurate in the wiki, then it appears the damage calculation uses the following expression:minimum damage + 30 x height = final damage
The height multiplier is subject to change as I don't know the specifics of Tail Wind's range and height, but let's assume Tail Wind really does propel Zephyr to a height of 14 m at max level. I've observed the Tail Wind (from standstill) + Dive Bomb combo inflicting 878 damage with Focus only (this excludes Tail Wind's AoE damage).
1.3 x ( 250 + 30 x 14 ) = 871.
I've also observed 1040 damage when Continuity was equipped:
1.3 x ( 250 + 30 x 14 x 1.3 ) = 1034.
It's not spot on, especially since the damage depends on my timing, so the "30" could be completely wrong (same goes for the entire format of the expression). If datamining is possible, it would be great if this could be looked into.
I have nothing to add to the wiki for Turbulence at this time.
Tornado spawns 1-4 tornadoes depending on the number of enemies in the area. Should there be no enemies in the summon AoE, a minimum of 1 tornado is released. Each tornado inflicts roughly 32
magnetic damage per tick. Ticks occur at a rate of roughly 4 per second. The damage mechanics of Tornado appear to be very similar to Vortex. The initial damage tick inflicts 2x damage, followed by continuous damage that lasts for the duration of the power. However, unlike Vortex, both the initial damage multiplier and continuous damage are affected by power strength. I've observed initial damage ticks around 108 with Focus equipped:
( 32 x 1.3 ) x ( 2 x 1.3 ) = 108.
Similar to Vortex, each damage tick of Tornado has a moderate status chance. What I find the most interesting about this power is the potential to change its damage type, coupled with its good status chance. The default magnetic damage will be overridden by the primary elemental damage that is dealt by a weapon or power, including damage from enemies. Unfortunately, this does not appear to work so well when playing as a client.
That's really all I have for now. I still would like to see how Heavy Impact affects Dive Bomb's damage output. I also need to look into Turbulence and see if power strength has any effect.
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The "81510" damage values are most likely caused by hitting a leaper in the middle of its attack (they take 10x damage during this time).
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Oberon
Smite inflicts 500 damage equally divided between
impact damage and 
radiation damage. At max level, 6 particles are released from the initial target (affected by power strength). Each particle deals 150 radiation damage, also affected by power strength. Enemies hit by any of these particles are staggered. With Focus equipped, here's what that looks like against a level 1 lancer:
195 x ( 1 - 0.25 ) = 146.Hallowed Ground inflicts 100
radiation damage every half second: the equivalent of 200 radiation damage per second. For some proof, here's what that looks like with Focus and the level 1 lancer once again:
130 x ( 1 - 0.25 ) = 97.One thing to note is that the damage stacks with repeated casts.With U12, Renewal no longer instantly revives allies should they be downed while receiving its health regeneration. The speed of the healing particle has been increased.Reckoning inflicts 1250 damage equally divided between impact damage and radiation damage. As this power ragdolls enemies, those that survive the damage must recover from the ground (similar to what Mag's Crush used to do). At max level, each killed enemy has a 50% chance of spawning a health orb.Oberon was long overdue. I've gone through most of the older posts; I've removed outdated information, and redundant commentary. There are still a few more powers I want to retest, so I'll update those posts (if necessary) when I have the time. -
I know you said Hysteria wont consider the element mod damage attached to the melee weapon with the same element but does that include the normal weapons with Impact, Puncture, and Slash mods? (Heavy Trauma, Sundering Strike, and Jagged Edge.)
Also, I know Hysteria works with the critical damage of melee weapons but does it work with critical chance as well or just use the 50% for both damage crits?
That's right. Physical damage mods that increase IPS values have no effect on Hysteria. From what I've seen, only mods that increase normal melee damage (Pressure Point, Spoiled Strike, Steel Charge) improve Hysteria's damage according to the equation I shared earlier.
Hysteria also seems to incorporate your melee weapon's base critical chance. I still need to test to have a better understanding of how critical chance is used, and whether True Steel improves the odds.
@CY13ERPUNK and rhoenix
Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad I can help.
Zephyr's parts are under construction, so it won't be until the end of next week before I can properly test her powers. I'll have to do some editing this weekend as some of the information I've shared is a little outdated. I haven't even made a proper post for Oberon.
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I agree with this.
I had made a topic regarding casting animations that are shared among multiple warframes. Completely buried at this point, the only discussion I managed to get out of the topic was the likelihood that current casting animations are placeholders that will be changed.
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I have been leveling melee weapons with Valkyr (damn heat dagger...) and before U12 using Hysteria in such a situation had the same efficiency and damage output than using it with my four forma Orthos P.
Now you just can't expect Hysteria to deal damage while leveling the Pangolin sword you had on alert, and not everyone has reached mastery 14 yet so this is an handicap. You wanna go in ODS to level up some gear including your melee weapon, you can forget about Valkyr.
This is what I meant, did she deserved an handicap added to her kit (as peculiar as it can seem) for just a small improvement in damage and armor ? I prefered the older version.
Ah, I understand your point now. I agree with you on that. Then again, Valkyr is not the best frame to use in order to level up your melee weapon as Hysteria kills do not contribute to your melee XP gain, unless you stock up on armor and use Warcry outside of Hysteria. That might have been changed with U12, but I can't verify that at the moment since I have no new melee weapons to level up.
No need to apologize for your attitude; I understand where you're coming from. I figure why people were not happy with Hysteria's damage output pre-U12 was due to the fact that it did not scale well. To go from fixed damage to a power that depends on weapon damage is a significant change in my opinion. Of course, I think this change has also made the issues regarding melee weapon viability much more apparent. Most weapons have less than 40 base damage with 1.5x criticals, which translates to a damage loss when used with Hysteria. This is not what players had in mind at all when they asked for Hysteria to be affected by weapon damage.
Anyway, this isn't about proving who's right or wrong. Your opinions and concerns are just as valid as mine. I'm just here to share my thoughts. Now, whether they implemented this change with U12 or when Melee 2.0 is released, the difference is the amount of downtime between updates. In hindsight, it would ease the conscience of most players if the Hysteria rework and Melee 2.0 were released simultaneously. However, there's nothing we can do about that other than patiently wait. Even if things don't work out, I really don't think it would be that difficult to change the value of the multiplier, and/or integrate elemental damage into the equation in order to make multiple weapons useful for Hysteria. Hang in there; we'll all get through this together.
Also, Megan mentioned before the release of U12 that Hysteria would not be affected by Melee 2.0. It's possible she was not aware of Hysteria's upcoming changes. As Hysteria has been modified to account for weapon damage, to me it would not make any sense if Hysteria wasn't affected by Melee 2.0 as all melee weapons are to receive a damage buff according to Geoff. Given that, I understand your skepticism (I'm a little skeptical too), but let's not lose hope.
This is all great stuff. So thanks for making this topic and giving us an opportunity to discuss these issues. Hopefully Scott will see and understand our perspectives on the matter.
I bet when people said to make our melee weapons affect Valkyr's Hysteria I'm sure everyone thought "ADD" our melee weapon's stats to Hysteria's damage.
It does that though. It even multiplies the base damage of your melee weapon by 1.75 before adding to Hysteria's base.
The base normal attack damage is just far too low for most weapons. Looking at the list of melee weapons, only one has sufficient base damage that would allow Hysteria to inflict slightly more damage than before: the Jat Kittag. Even with the three high critical damage weapons, your standard attacks will inflict less damage than before. Their saving grace is the 3x damage multiplier that allows them to outperform the old Hysteria when combined with Organ Shatter.
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Well I am totally agaisnt melee weapon affecting Hysteria, as I said before this would be the only frame you wouldn't use to rank up your melee weapon meaning another handicap to Valkyr and to her Hysteria.
As far as I know, there are few other abilities affected by the weapons you use : Antimatter Drop, Energy Shield, Contagion and Sonar. And the comparison ends here, there is a clear difference in cost, effectiveness and even scaling for each of them. And their efficiency/utility is a base added to the weapon, not the other way around meaning you don't have to mod the weapon in order to make the ability scale more but the ability makes your weapon damage scaling. And none of them are "ultimate" or the core ability of the frame, Sonar excepted but...truly nothing more that's similar to Hysteria.
And as I said earlier, newcommers can't manage to get such builds in their early game while Jupiter is low tier planet making Valkyr easily craftable. they will just end up using Valkyr with their Cronus, or even if they bought Dual Zoren or Cleaver, their Hysteria is gonna deal really poor damage. I'm too lazy to use your formula for such a case, but the numbers must be quite ridiculous.
At those low levels, pressing 4 is a high cost in energy so it must have a strong effect. Mag's Crush, Rhino's Stomp, Oberon's Reckoning or Ember's WoF even Excal Radial Javelin have in comparison way more effectiveness as those frames are also easy to get or are starter ones.
And whatever the changes they will give to melee weapons, the formula itself limits her to critical builds for a maximum efficiency. That's not what hurts the most but it's a restriction added to a warframe that truly doesn't need it.
Edit : Mea Culpa, completely forgot about Molecular prime when speaking about abilities. Actually this one is the center of Nova's gameplay but...well do I have to say anything more ?
While I do think there is a problem with the current Hysteria due to the limited number of weapons that actually improve your damage output compared to old values, I do not think the issue that's causing this problem is the fact that Hysteria scales with melee weapon damage. Not being able to gain melee weapon XP has always been the case with Hysteria. It could be a bug, it could be intentional. However, Hysteria wouldn't be the first ability that prevents your warframe from gaining XP in some fashion. Either way, this has nothing to do with Hysteria scaling with weapon damage.
There are abilities that enhance your weapon damage via additive or multiplicative bonuses, and there are abilities that draw from your weapon damage. Of the powers that you listed, only Antimatter Drop does the latter. Hysteria and Antimatter Drop's damage calculation are actually very similar in structure.
Antimatter Drop:
100 + 4 x ( total weapon damage )
Hysteria:
300 + 1.75 x ( normal attack damage )
Both powers require input that is drawn directly from the damage that you inflict. Each has constant base damage, and each uses a specific multiplier. These powers obviously have completely different mechanics, so this is essentially where the comparison ends. Melee damage is currently one of the least efficient ways to dispatch enemies, and now you have a power that draws from that: a 100-energy cost power. The problem doesn't lie within the damage calculation in my opinion, but the melee weapons themselves. Most have piddly base damage, which only leaves a handful of weapons with high base damage and high critical damage that work well with Hysteria.
Despite Hysteria's limitations, the weapon damage scaling creates a foundation for increased damage potential and viability when melee weapons receive the attention they need. With a 66.7% damage increase for Orthos Prime, I already provided an example of how it would be possible to inflict nearly 10k crits without needing a high critical damage weapon. Yes, a weapon with high base damage and a high critical damage would still be the most effective weapon to use, but it would not necessarily be a requirement. This is why I would rather wait for Melee 2.0 to come into effect to see just how weapon stats are modified.
As for newcomers dealing trivial damage, consider that most enemies between level 1-20 are going to have less than 1000 total hitpoints. Let's say a new player only managed to acquire Pressure Point and Organ Shatter before leveling up Valkyr for the first time. With the old Hysteria, the total damage inflicted before resistances would be:
100 x 1.75 x 3 = 525 damage ( 1050 / 2100 damage criticals ).
With the new Hysteria and Cronus, and the common mods I mentioned previously:
3 x [ 100 + ( 1.75 / 3 ) x 35 x ( 1 + 1.2 ) ] = 435 damage ( 1239 / 2478 damage criticals).
Very similar to the old Hysteria, while being sufficient enough to kill most level 1-20 enemies in 1-3 hits. With Dual Cleavers:
3 x [ 100 + ( 1.75 / 3 ) x 25 x ( 1 + 1.2 ) ] = 396 damage ( 2259 / 4517 damage criticals).
Again, this isn't tragic for low-level play. Massive AoE nukes are always going to limit the number of enemies to kill in a room with melee damage: a situation that is not exclusive to new players.
If all melee weapons receive an increase in base damage, then Dual Ichor or any other high critical damage weapon might not be a necessity in order to inflict greater damage than before. Of course, high critical damage and high base damage are going to heavily contribute to Hysteria, and players are going to gravitate toward such weapons to maximize their potential. However, this behavior can be observed with Antimatter Drop as players tend to strive for maximum DPS weapons. The significant difference is that it does not take as many resources for Antimatter Drop to deal its magic. This is the kind of flexibility that I want to see with Hysteria, giving the player options to use various weapons and not confining them to a small handful. As Melee 2.0 is several weeks away, we'll just have to wait and see how viable the melee system has become.
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1500 cold damage.
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I'm not observing any change with Rhino Stomp. It still inflicts 800 blast damage at max level.
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And about Orthos Prime or other high base damage weapons read the first post, I have played Valkyr a lot with maxed Blind Rage and Focus before U12 and then tried after U12 with my four forma Orthos Prime and overall the damage was lower than it used to be.
No truly, I don't see the point in Hysteria affected by your melee weapon except giving her one more handicap compared to other warframes.
Hysteria being affected by melee weapons is what people were asking for in the feedback thread. However, we didn't expect Hysteria to be affected by your melee weapon to the point of requiring a select group of weapons and mods in order for it to function similarly or slightly better than before.
Part of the problem is one, Hysteria does not factor in elemental damage, Smite, or any other type of damage mod other than those that boost the base normal attack damage. I'll go over an example shortly. Second, most melee weapons have relatively low base damage. As Melee 2.0 is supposed to provide a damage boost for all melee weapons, this might solve part of the issue. As an example:
Take your Orthos Prime. You have +40% damage from Steel Charge and +1.29% power strength. The old Hysteria with your set up would inflict:
100 x 1.75 x 2.29 x 1.18 x 3 = 1419 damage before resistances (2837 / 5675 damage criticals).
The current Hysteria with your Orthos Prime would inflict:
3 x [ 100 + ( 1.75 / 3 ) x 2.29 x 60 x ( 1.4 + 2.2 ) ] = 1166 damage before resistances (3322 / 6644 damage criticals).
So now you deal less damage per strike, but your critical damage is slightly higher. This is the frustration that I totally understand. Now, let's assume that with Melee 2.0 Orthos Prime deals 100 base damage from 60:
3 x [ 100 + ( 1.75 / 3 ) x 2.29 x 100 x ( 1.4 + 2.2 ) ] = 1743 damage before resistances (4967 / 9933 damage criticals).
Of course, I really don't know how much of a boost the melee weapons will receive. In this example, however, you wouldn't need to resort to a high critical damage weapon in order to inflict higher damage than before. This is why I suggest we wait and see exactly how much damage our melee weapons gain from Melee 2.0. If it's still insufficient, there are still plenty of options. The 1.75x factor could be modified to 2.5x, for instance. Hysteria's base 300 damage could be increased, or elemental damage could be taken into account, or any combination of the above.
Also what if Hysteria inherit all those mods you know speed , element , damage , crit etc
If Hysteria inherited elemental damage, I would assume that similarly to extra damage from Pressure Point or Spoiled Strike, Steel Charge would not affect it. Here's what that would look like with your Dual Cleavers (assuming max power strength and Steel Charge):
3 x [ 100 + ( 1.75 / 3 ) x 2.29 x 25 x ( 1.55 + 2.2 + 1.5 ) ] = 822 damage before resistances (4686 / 9372 damage criticals).
Compare that to Dual Cleavers without elemental damage:
3 x [ 100 + ( 1.75 / 3 ) x 2.29 x 25 x ( 1.55 + 2.2 ) ] = 671 damage before resistances (3825 / 7649 damage criticals).
Let's just see where Melee 2.0 takes us. If the damage is still undesirable, or if there's still a limited number of weapons that work effectively with Hysteria, I still think it's possible to tweak the damage formula without completely reworking the power.
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https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/175122-february-7th-community-hot-topics/?p=2048815
Right here !
Just read your post, may they get inspiration in there !
Ah, thanks for sharing. Well, that's excellent news! An animation makeover is definitely needed, so I'm glad that's on the agenda.
My 2 cents : Have Hysteria give Valkyr claws that deal 300 damage (equally split between Impact + Puncture + Slash) and add the base weapon damage/crit/etc... on top of that. I'd be fine with any damage/crit buff to Hysteria, honestly, but I feel this would be a good start since it gives newer players the base 300 damage and vets the ability to mod out their weapons to get the most out of the skill.
That's what Hysteria currently does. Here's how the damage is calculated. The old 1.75x multiplier that was used directly on Hysteria's base damage is now applied to your weapon's base damage.
I'm noticing people saying that the old Hysteria was more effective than the new one. In response to the original post, I used Hysteria last night with Dual Zoren, Focus, Steel Charge (+45%), and melee/critical damage mods. I was hitting for 4k+ critical damage against the Hyenas, and 2-3k critical damage against Grineer on Ceres (level 25-28). Even without Dual Ichor or Blind Rage, I can't say that I'm observing the current Hysteria dealing less damage than before.
To maximize your damage potential, you need to increase power strength, use Steel Charge, equip a melee weapon with high base damage and/or high critical damage, use Pressure Point and Spoiled Strike, and finally, use Organ Shatter.
For high critical damage: Dual Ichor, Dual Cleavers, Dual Zoren, Furax, Obex, Kogake, Ankyros, Plasma Sword
For high base damage: Jat Kitteg, Orthos Prime, Dakra Prime, Scoliac, Fragor, Ether Reaper, Magistar, Hate, Reaper Prime, Scindo
The first few weapons on either list are your best options (3x critical damage and 55-80 base damage).
In the comparison that I made here, it is possible to inflict more damage than the old Hysteria assuming you are using the appropriate weapon and mods. However, I can understand the frustration in needing to use a specific weapon and specific mod layout in order for this to work. Even then, it's not a massive improvement over the original.
So with U12, your melee weapon's normal attack damage and critical damage are applied to Hysteria. Should melee weapons receive a damage buff across the board (Melee 2.0), this will indirectly increase Hysteria's damage. Should any melee weapon be released in the future with high base damage and/or high critical damage, that would be another weapon to add to the list. Should there be any new mods that increase melee/critical damage further, that's more damage for Hysteria.
Given our small selection of effective weapons for Hysteria, I would say to wait and see what Melee 2.0 has in store for us. If all melee weapons receive a damage buff according to Geoff, that may provide us with more options along with a higher-damage Hysteria.
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What about the curious case of fang prime? What it's real base damage, 25 or 75? Do we have to weild jat kitteg.... Somethinglikethat to gain best damage buff?
Unfortunately, I don't have that weapon so I can't properly test it. If three separate instances of damage are dealt in one swing, I would assume that it would use 25 physical damage as the base. I could be wrong though.
As for maximizing your damage output, your best bet is to equip a melee weapon with high critical damage, high base damage, and a high critical chance while using Pressure Point, Spoiled Strike, and Organ Shatter. I need to test True Steel to see if it really has an effect on Hysteria's critical chance. Using the above calculations, here are a couple of examples compared to the old Hysteria:
Hysteria pre-U12, Focus + Blind Rage + Steel Charge:
300 x 1.75 x 2.29 x 1.18 = 1419 total damage before resistances ( 2837 / 5675 damage crits )
Current Hysteria, Jat Kitteg w/ Focus + Blind Rage + Steel Charge + Pressure Point + Spoiled Strike + Organ Shatter:
300 + 1.75 x 80 x 2.29 x ( 1 + 0.6 + 2.2 ) = 1518 total damage before resistances ( 4326 / 8652 damage crits )
Current Hysteria, Dual Ichor w/ Focus + Blind Rage + Steel Charge + Pressure Point + Spoiled Strike + Organ Shatter:
300 + 1.75 x 35 x 2.29 x ( 1 + 0.6 + 2.2 ) = 832 total damage before resistances ( 4742 / 9484 damage crits )
Question about Hysteria's adoption of melee weapon damage: Will it ignore weapons with innate elemental damage, like Dual Ichor?
It won't. The damage calculation seems to utilize the weapon's base damage regardless of the damage type. However, you cannot increase Hysteria's damage by equipping the appropriate elemental mod. So for instance, Shocking Touch and Focus Energy will not have any effect on Hysteria when used with a Lecta or Prova.
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My issue is more the animations than the damage. Thankfully, they confirmed that it will be changed in the future. What do you guys think of these combos?
I completely agree with you. I left a lengthy post in the art and animation feedback forum outlining my problems with the animation set, along with possible solutions.
As for the video, that would be a great improvement over what we currently have. I'm curious, when was it confirmed that Hysteria would receive new animations?
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Valkyr
Aside from specific melee mods enhancing Hysteria, I'm noticing that its attacks are all capable of damaging more than one enemy at a time. Hysteria's other attacks also appear to inflict the same amount of damage as the standard melee attacks, which is big improvement over the base 10 damage that existed before.
Hysteria still inflicts 300 base damage (evenly divided between impact, puncture, and slash), except now your melee weapon's base damage (from normal attacks) is used to increase this value. It appears as though physical/elemental damage type mods, Finishing Touch, and Smite mods have no effect on Hysteria's damage. The same is true for charge damage mods. Here's a run-through on how Hysteria's damage seems to be calculated:
In order to determine how much damage a single attack will do, divide the base damage of Hysteria by three to separate this value into IPS components.
Your melee weapon's base damage from normal attacks seems to be multiplied by 1.75, which is then added to Hysteria's base 300:
No melee mods equipped:
300 + 1.75 x base weapon damage = total damage
With Pressure Point and/or Spoiled Strike equipped, your weapon's normal attack damage is increased.
Additional melee damage (+M%):
300 + 1.75 x base weapon damage x ( 1 + M / 100 ) = total damage
With additional power strength, simply multiply your base weapon damage by ( 1 + power strength % increase ):
Additional power damage (+P%):
300 + 1.75 x ( 1 + P / 100 ) x base weapon damage x ( 1 + M / 100 ) = total damage
Finally, Steel Charge only affects the base weapon damage in the calculation. It does not apply to the extra damage gained from melee mods:
Steel Charge (+S%):
300 + 1.75 x ( 1 + P / 100 ) x base weapon damage x ( 1 + S / 100 + M / 100 ) = total damage
To reinforce this estimated equation, here are some damage values I've observed against chargers compared to expected values. There appears to be internal rounding which I have taken into consideration:
Expected:
Observed:
Critical damage mods appear to behave as you would expect. With 5.7x critical damage, I'm observing Hysteria's attacks being multiplied by a similar factor. I need to do more testing to see if critical chance mods actually affect Hysteria.
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It seems to be health damage. I've edited the post to clarify.
Volt's Shock
in Warframes
Posted
As LukeAura pointed out, the 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 target limit that's stated in the wiki is outdated. I've observed Shock chaining to more than 5 enemies.
As for your proposal, that's basically how Shock currently works (except the status chance is 100% for every hit). This means that if I shock 5 enemies, each enemy is going to receive 200 base electricity damage. Each enemy will also take an additional 100 electricity damage, and spread that damage in a small AoE. This behavior can cause the secondary damage to overlap multiple times if enemies are clustered. Not to mention the secondary damage is affected by special body part multipliers.