PsycloneM
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Posts posted by PsycloneM
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Currently, Miasma's DPS is calculated using 1500 base damage divided by Miasma's power duration. To determine the total damage, you multiply the DPS by ( 1 + Miasma's power duration ). The shorter Miasma's duration, the more damage it will inflict (both DPS and total).
No duration mods:
1500 / 4 = 375 damage per second.
375 x 5 = 1875 total damage
Continuity and Constitution (+58% power duration):
1500 / 6.32 = 237 damage per second.
237 x 7.32 = 1735 total damage
Fleeting Expertise (-60% power duration):
1500 / 1.6 = 937 damage per second
937 x 2.6 = 2436 total damage
I'm still unsure whether this was intentional. Either way, I'm not a fan of this mechanic. I can understand having to sacrifice powers in order to make a corrupted mod work well with my build. Power duration mods like Continuity or Constitution have no inherent penalties, so I find it a bit frustrating that I have to choose between a low-duration Venom/Molt/Contagion + high-damage Miasma and a long-duration Venom/Molt/Contagion + low-damage Miasma.
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I think what you all are observing might be explained with the following:
Paralysis's damage falls off with distance as you can see in the last image. I also suspect the "9820" damage was dealt to a leaper in the middle of its attack (leapers take 10x damage during this time), meaning Paralysis actually dealt 982 damage at that distance.
As Paralysis is capable of dealing head shots regularly, you might be noticing the reduced damage against Corpus crewmen due to the 0.1x damage resistance they have on their heads. In your test where one crewman was decimated and the other survived with a ~35% loss to shields, I suspect the blast hit the survivor's head, resulting in the minuscule damage.
I haven't noticed any issues with the resistance table as of late. Impact damage still does 1.5x damage to shields, as is the case with Paralysis:
With a 330 shield capacity and Focus, that's 330 x 0.5 x 3.5 x 1.3 = 750 impact damage:
( 750 x 1.5 - 600 ) x ( 0.75 / 1.5 ) = 262
The damage done to the crewman's health in the calculation matches the observation. Also, a 650-damage Slash Dash can be reduced to 162 damage against a Corrupted lancer. Assuming it was a level 15 Corrupted lancer, here's how much armor it would have:
200 + 200 x 0.005 x ( 15 - 1 ) ^ 1.75 = 301 armor.
Slash damage deals 1.25x damage to health and has a -50% resistance from alloy armor. Armor resistances are applied to an enemy's armor and health after damage reduction has been calculated:
301 x 1.5 / ( 301 x 1.5 + 300 ) = 0.6 damage reduction.
650 x 0.5 x 1.25 x ( 1 - 0.6 ) = 162
So overall, the damage inconsistencies you are observing are likely to be due to damage falloff combined with crewmen mitigating damage from head shots. The resistance table does not appear to be the culprit here. -
It's been a while since I've updated anything here. I was going through the wiki, and I wanted to comment on several of the ability articles:
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Shuriken'>Ash
Shuriken still deals 500 slash damage per shuriken.
Against a level 1 lancer with Focus equipped, that's:
650 x 1.25 x 0.85 x [ 1 - 100 x 1.15 / ( 100 x 1.15 + 300 ) ] = 499.
If Shuriken dealt puncture damage, we would see the following damage value displayed instead:
650 x 1.5 x [ 1 - 100 x 0.5 / ( 100 x 0.5 + 300 ) ] = 835.
Shuriken does not deal puncture damage.
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Fireball'>Ember
Fireball deals 400 heat damage on impact, twice as much as stated in the wiki. Assuming Fireball does not receive any head shot modifiers, the target will burn for 200 heat damage for 6 seconds (a total of 7 ticks). The target and surrounding enemies will take an additional 150 heat damage from the AoE component. All three damage components can be increased with head shot modifiers (decreased in the case of Corpus crewmen) and by power strength mods.
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Slash_Dash'>Excalibur
Slash Dash's range seems to be much longer than 10 m. I suspect it's closer to 20 m based off the in-game navigation marker. With Continuity equipped, the range appears to be roughly 26-27 m.
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Shield_Polarize'>Mag
Shield Polarize still deals magnetic damage.
Here, a level 4 moa was used as a damage source. With its 160 shield capacity, the radial damage (with Focus) would be calculated as follows:
160 x 0.5 x 2.5 x 1.3 x 1.3 = 338.
If we work backwards using the displayed damage values to estimate the initial damage, we can eliminate damage types accordingly. Since there is a bit of distance between the two moas, the estimated initial damage will be slightly less than 338.
Magnetic damage, 1.75x damage to shields:
[ ( 238 x 1.75 ) + 168 ] / 1.75 = 334
Blast damage, no damage modifiers:
238 + 168 = 406
Shield Polarize does not deal blast damage.
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Soul_Punch'>Nekros
The targeted enemy still takes 500 impact damage, but the projectile no longer deals magnetic damage. I'm not entirely sure how it works, but it seems as though enemies take 50 impact damage when hit by the projectile as it's in motion. When the projectile bursts as it hits a hard surface, enemies in range take 100 impact damage. This AoE can also deal extra damage from head shots. All enemies that take damage from the projectile are ragdolled. The projectile damage does not seem to be affected by power strength mods. Here's what that looks like, with Focus equipped as usual:
Note the impact symbol from the AoE damage.
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Nova/Abilities'>Nova
The wiki still claims that each particle from Null Star deals 150 slash damage. Each deals 200 slash damage. Here's what I'm seeing with Focus equipped against a level 1 lancer:
260 x 1.25 x 0.85 x [ 1 - 100 x 1.15 / ( 100 x 1.15 + 300 ) ] = 199.
The wiki is also claiming that since U11.5, Antimatter Drop's damage multiplier is affected by power strength. Using a level 1 lancer, this is what I'm seeing:
I used an unmodded Hikou in this example, and each projectile deals 25 physical damage. Considering all 20 hit, that's 20 x 25 = 500 weapon damage. As Antimatter Drop deals 100 base radiation damage (not 200 as mentioned in the article), with Focus equipped the damage is calculated as follows:
( 130 + 500 x 4 ) x ( 1 - 0.25 ) = 1597.
Power strength does not affect the damage multiplier: only the base damage. Here's proof of the base damage (no Focus this time):
On a side note, when Antimatter Drop comes into contact with an enemy it deals 10 radiation damage before detonating (increased by power strength). The damage value is barely visible in the previous image.
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Absorb'>Nyx
Absorb still deals a minimum of 1500 magnetic damage. Again with Focus equipped, that looks something like this:
The crawler suffered a head shot from the blast as you can see by the double damage. If Absorb dealt slash damage as claimed in the wiki, the charger would have taken 2437 damage; the crawler would have taken 2925 x 2 = 5850 damage from the head shot.
Absorb does not deal slash damage.
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Oberon/Abilities'>Oberon
Smite and Reckoning both deal 500 and 1250 damage as stated, each composed of 50% impact damage and 50% radiation damage. However, the particles from Smite do not seem to deal 100 damage. Each particle deals 150 radiation damage. Enemies hit by any of these particles are staggered. With Focus equipped, here's what that looks like against a level 1 lancer:
195 x ( 1 - 0.25 ) = 146.
I'm also not observing Hallowed Ground dealing 125 radiation damage per second. Each tick deals 100 radiation damage every half second: the equivalent of 200 radiation damage per second. For some proof, here's the damage with Focus and the level 1 lancer:
130 x ( 1 - 0.25 ) = 97.
One thing to note is that the damage stacks with repeated casts. The base duration also seems to be longer than 12.5 seconds. With no duration mods equipped, Hallowed Ground lasts roughly 20 seconds.
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Vauban/Abilities'>Vauban
I was curious about the damage Vauban's grenades were causing on impact. I can confirm that all of Vauban's grenades deal 15 blast damage when tossed onto an enemy. This damage is increased by power strength, and has a small chance to knock down the target.
As I've had Tesla grenades last longer than 80 seconds, I'm still in disagreement with the claim that the grenades disappear after 40 seconds. From what I'm observed, the 40 second lifetime is true if the grenades don't use any charges. Time the life of a dormant grenade, and compare it to a grenade that is actively using charges. Let's see if our observations match.
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Volt/Abilities'>Volt
After reading several posts regarding Volt's stealth changes after U11, I was very curious as to what people were experiencing that suddenly made Volt less effective.
Shock appears to have been modified. You no longer have to center your enemy on the target reticle in order to deal maximum damage. The secondary damage seems to function as it used to, except it no longer deals a constant 100 electricity damage regardless of power strength. The secondary damage is now equal to half of Shock's final damage.
Overload still seems to inflict 225 electricity damage over 4 seconds, except as mentioned, the secondary damage is now equal to half of the final damage dealt by each pulse. Electronic devices deal 250 electricity damage per attack, with 125 electricity damage secondaries. As before, electronic device damage is not affected by power strength. These devices prolong Overload's duration as usual. When the devices have exhausted their charges, Overload's final 3 pulses come into effect. As for Overload having a small chance to proc as mentioned in the article, the status debuff and secondary damage seem to occur 100% of the time, similar to Shock.
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I was actually comparing EV to only Trinity's other abilities. The more energy you can gain from EV during Link/Blessing duration, the easier they are to maintain. Having + duration actually reduce the duration on EV would completely trivialize the relationship between EV and Trinity's other abilities, similar to how having it keep its base interval for 25+ second Blessings would do the same thing.
Ah, I see now. In that case, let me clarify. My argument is that duration mods with no inherent penalties should not decrease the effectiveness of any power in this game. I understand that with the current 9 second duration and 100 base energy restored, Energy Vampire would become far more powerful than it is now. I'm not arguing this needs to happen; I'm all for adjusting base stats across the board in order to make the proposal work. Consider the following:
Energy Vampire now has a base duration of 25/21/18/14, and restores 80 energy. Power strength affects the total energy gained as usual, and the base duration is divided by ( 1 + power duration ). Let's also assume that Link and Blessing each have an 8 second duration. With +83% power duration from Continuity, Constitution, and Aura, we have a 7.65 second duration for Energy Vampire and a 14.64 second duration for Link/Blessing.
With Streamline equipped, I'll receive a net energy of 80 - 35 = 45 in a single cast of Energy Vampire. I cast Link for 52.5 energy. In the ideal situation that I'm extremely timely, let's say I can fit two casts of Energy Vampire into Link. That's 8 ticks of 20 energy = 160 total energy. The net energy after Link expires is equal to 160 - 52.5 - 35 - 35 = 37.5.
I cast Link and Blessing, followed by Energy Vampire. Again, let's assume that I can fit two casts of Energy Vampire while invulnerable. That's 160 - 70 - 52.5 - 35 - 35 = -32.5 net energy.
Comparing the current Trinity with Aura and Streamline equipped, Energy Vampire, Link, and Blessing will have a duration of 11.25, 12.5, and 12.5 seconds each. One cast of Energy Vampire nets me 100 - 35 = 65 energy. I'll most likely be able to fit one full cast of Energy Vampire into Link: this nets me 100 - 52.5 - 35 = 12.5 energy. With the Link/Blessing combo, that's 100 - 70 - 52.5 - 35 = -57.5 net energy.
The difference between the net energy acquired after power usage in both scenarios is essentially a single energy orb. It is definitely possible for increased power duration to benefit Energy Vampire without dramatically increasing the effectiveness of her entire kit. As this is just one example, all of the base stats I've adjusted can be further modified to produce a more desired skill set.
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The problem with both of the common suggestions is that they make the energy spent vs. energy gained vs. duration of other abilities ratio even more broken. Even with the current mechanics I can keep Link and Blessing up constantly as long as I'm popping EV whenever possible on heavy targets; this is without Fleeting Expertise.
I don't quite understand your first point. There are no other abilities that can restore energy (unless you want to include Desecrate loot). Energy Vampire is the current basis for energy regeneration powers as it's the only one with that functionality. Comparing one power that is not designed to regenerate energy with Energy Vampire, and stating that Energy Vampire is broken because of mods improving said regeneration is not exactly a fair statement. Correct me if I'm misunderstanding you.
Regarding your second point, I agree with you. That doesn't change the fact that a non-penalizing mod like Continuity/Constitution is actually reducing the effectiveness of Energy Vampire. I'm arguing from an ability mechanic perspective. The calculations I provided are only indicative of what could be if the base duration remains the same; the base duration can always be adjusted to tame Energy Vampire's regeneration if 100 energy over 4.92 seconds is considered to be too strong.
If max duration made trinity great at blessing and energy vampire, she would top the dps charts and make everyone immune at the same time.
Trinity already has extremely high single-target DPS (if not the highest), and can make herself and allies immune even with Fleeting Expertise. Power duration improving energy regeneration while increasing Blessing's duration would not change that. Besides, The Well of Life + Energy Vampire combo takes far too long to set up to be practical. Her single-target DPS potential becomes useful when your weapon damage becomes horribly insufficient: a point at which game balance is not centered around.
On the second quote it would be more like longer range cc on rhino stomp or more damage absorbed with iron skin (stretch + overextended vs power strength). It is just more noticeable on trinity.
You are using Overextended, so it makes sense that you would sacrifice power strength for increased range. The OP is describing a hypothetical situation where increased power strength (from Focus for example) improved Rhino Stomp, but reduced the amount of damage absorbed for Iron Skin. You shouldn't be forced to trade the effectiveness of your powers when you equip mods with no inherent penalties; yet, this is exactly what happens with Trinity (Energy Vampire) and Saryn (Miasma) with power duration mods like Continuity and Constitution.
EDIT: I just noticed the OP's clarification above.
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or use fleeting expertise same amount of energy just faster ticks but will cost you the duration of the other abilities
This is exactly the problem I have with the new Miasma. I can understand corrupted mods reducing the effectiveness of a particular power stat while increasing the effectiveness of another. However, mods with no inherent penalties like Continuity and Constitution should not penalize the player for wanting to increase power duration-- in Trinity's case, a lower energy regeneration rate.
An Energy Vampire with constant energy regeneration (Archistopheles's suggestion), or the current Energy Vampire with its base duration divided by ( 1 + power duration % increase) (OP's suggestion) would be better alternatives in my opinion.
Current Energy Vampire (Continuity, Constitution, and Aura):
9 x ( 1 + 0.3 + 0.28 + 0.25 ) = 16.47 ----> duration of 16.47 seconds
16.47 / 4 = 4.12 ----> pulse period of 4.12 seconds, regeneration rate of 6.07 energy/sec, 100 energy restored
Constant energy, inverse relationship (Continuity, Constitution, and Aura):
9 / ( 1 + 0.3 + 0.28 + 0.25 ) = 4.92 ----> duration of 4.92 seconds
4.92 / 4 = 1.23 ----> pulse period of 1.23 seconds, regeneration rate of 20.33 energy/sec, 100 energy restored
Constant energy regeneration (Continuity, Constitution, and Aura):
9 / 4 = 2.25 ----> pulse period of 2.25 seconds, regeneration rate of 11.11 energy/sec
9 x ( 1 + 0.3 + 0.28 + 0.25 ) = 16.47 ----> duration of 16.47 seconds, 208 energy restored (reduced energy tick at t = 16.47 s).
Energy Vampire has a base duration of 5/6/7/9 seconds. It would be more intuitive if the base duration decreased with rank for the OP's suggestion. For example, Energy Vampire could have a base duration of 16/14/12/9 seconds. Otherwise with Archistopheles's suggestion, the base duration should increase with rank.
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Miasma deals corrosive damage, which is neutral against napalms with their alloy armor. If you are using Continuity and/or Constitution, Miasma will deal less damage (DPS and total) than if you had no power duration mods equipped at all. The equation used to calculate Miasma's damage with respect to power duration is described here.
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Corrupted mod penalties function as expected on these warframes: either a specific power stat is decreased, or the penalty has no effect. Enter Saryn, where reduced power duration from Fleeting Expertise hurts her first three powers and vastly improves her fourth. In spite of this, my grievance is the fact that I do not have the capability to use a non-penalizing mod like Continuity on Saryn without it decreasing the effectiveness of Miasma. This is what I find to be counterintuitive.I like to find use for all warframe powers (including Molt and Contagion) under various circumstances, and I figure I'm not alone. I don't enjoy using any warframe as a one-trick pony. Why should I or anyone else be limited to a min/max build on Saryn in order to get some effectiveness out of Miasma? Until there's a response from the dev team via reply or hotfix, we can't be too sure this was intended to begin with.
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You don't seem to understand my point.
I think Saryn's changes from U11.5 are great. My issue is the fact that increased power duration, a stat that once benefited all of Saryn's powers, now reduces Miasma's DPS and total damage. In order to get the most out of Miasma, I now have to equip a corrupted mod and sacrifice the effectiveness of the rest of her powers.
Considering this was most likely an unintentional side effect, why should anyone be forced to deal with it? It's counterintuitive, and limits Saryn's playstyle. It's also possible that Miasma was actually meant to deal constant damage with respect to power duration; again, this would be an undesirable change as it places a damage cap on Miasma when one wasn't needed to begin with.
All I'm suggesting is that Miasma be affected by power duration as it was in the past. If the developers intend for Miasma to deal constant damage, then I'll come up with alternative suggestions.
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Man, why would you report it this fast.... let me enjoy my Saryn for a bit longer.
If power duration affected Miasma the same way it currently affects the rest of her powers, Saryn would have similar (if not greater) damage potential. While it would take Miasma extra time to apply this damage with increased power duration (which would be expected behavior), you wont have to sacrifice the duration of her other powers with Fleeting Expertise or Chlora to achieve high total damage values.
Current damage w/ Fleeting Expertise (-60%) + Focus + Blind Rage:
2146 x 2.6 = 5580 ----> 2146 DPS; 5580 damage over 1.6 seconds
Suggested damage w/ Continuity and Constitution (+58%) + Focus + Blind Rage:
858.75 x 7.32 = 6286 ----> 858.75 DPS; 6286 damage over 6.32 seconds
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I noticed this too, and posted my thoughts on the feedback thread. I can understand why you all would be pleased with this; the DPS potential is enormous. However, I suspect this was unintended as the opposite is true when you increase power duration for the rest of her skill set.
The problem lies in the equation that's used to calculate Miasma's total damage. Currently it's the following:
damage x ( 1 + power duration ) / ( 1 + power duration % increase )
Miasma now deals 375 corrosive damage (base) per second over 4 seconds. So here's what that would look like with various mod set ups:
Fleeting Expertise (-50%) + Focus:
975 x 3 = 2925
No mods:
375 x 5 = 1875
Continuity + Constitution:
237 x 7.32 = 1735
It's possible the developers wanted the total damage to remain constant with respect to power duration. If that's the case, I really don't think it's necessary to restrict Miasma's potential with a damage cap. Even with constant damage, there's currently no incentive to equip increased power duration for Miasma. Venom, Molt, and Contagion all benefit from increased power duration; meanwhile, Miasma's DPS diminishes with no benefits. It's counterintuitive, in my opinion.
I think it would be worth the extra mod slots if Miasma's DPS remains constant while power duration affects the total damage, just as it was prior to U11.5:
Fleeting Expertise (-50%) + Focus:
487.5 x 3 = 1463
Continuity + Constitution + Focus:
487.5 x 7.32 = 3569
If the developers actually intend for Miasma to deal constant damage regardless of power duration, then there are definitely alternative suggestions I'll discuss in the feedback thread some time after the new year.
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This has got to be unintended, there's just no way they'd take what was essentially the core increase across the board for Saryn's powers and make it instead decrease the total damage on miasma.
I figure the total damage loss was unintentional, too. This is what I'm seeing against a level 24 napalm (893 armor) with Focus and various power duration set ups:
If the developers were trying to force Miasma to deal constant damage with respect to power duration, Miasma's base damage should not be divided by ( 1 + power duration % increase ). Rather, the base damage should be divided by ( 1 + current duration ) / ( 1 + base duration ). The "1" is there to account for the initial damage tick at t = 0. So with Continuity and Constitution, this is what Miasma's total damage would be without any rounding:
[ 375 / ( 7.32 / 5 ) ] x 7.32 = 1875.
A possible issue is the rounding that seems to take place when the base damage is divided by the constant. Using the same formula and rounding techniques as I did in the first table, Miasma will experience a very slight damage loss (2-3 damage) with additional power duration, unless the reduced damage tick can make up for it. This would require the reduced damage tick calculation for Miasma to determine the remainder, which would be 1875 - ( 256 x 7 ) = 83 in this example. Here's what that would look like against the napalm:
The problem that I have with constant damage is that power duration reduces Miasma's DPS with no benefits. Additional power duration works very well with the rest of Saryn's skill set; it extends the amount of time the powers are active: increasing damage output, increasing the chance to proc debuffs, or by increasing survivability due to a longer lasting decoy. What does a player gain by increasing the amount of time it takes for Miasma to deal full damage? Disregarding the total damage loss, currently I can't think of any incentive. If this an intended mechanic, there needs to be a good reason for players to want to sacrifice mod slots and Miasma's DPS in order to increase its duration.
If constant damage was not intentional, Miasma should simply be affected by power duration as it was prior to U11.5. That is, power duration only affects Miasma's base duration of 4 seconds. The 375 base damage per second remains static, and is affected by power strength. The total damage would then be calculated as:
375 x ( 1 + power strength % increase ) x [ 4 x ( 1 + power duration % increase ) + 1 ].
Again, the "1" at the very end of the expression is to account for the initial damage tick at t = 0. Here's what that damage would look like against the napalm:
I prefer Miasma to be affected by power duration as it was before U11.5. It's counterintuitive that a non-penalizing mod like Continuity or Constitution would reduce the effectiveness of Miasma as it does now, especially when Saryn's other powers benefit from said mods as expected. However, there are good suggestions in this thread that could alleviate the issue if the developers truly want Miasma to deal constant damage with respect to power duration. I'll save that and my thoughts on Venom for another post.
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If it was intended for power duration mods to reduce Miasma's DPS, I think this is an unnecessary feature.
First of all, increased power duration currently reduces Miasma's DPS and total damage. To calculate Miasma's DPS with power duration mods, you simply divide the base damage by ( 1 + power duration % increase ). Miasma deals damage every second, including the initial damage at t = 0 and the reduced damage tick from the remaining fraction of a second at the end of the duration. Regarding the final reduced damage tick, there appears to be a bug where the damage value is displayed next to Saryn instead of the enemy. So here's what Miasma's total damage would be with various set ups:
No power duration mods:
375 x ( 4 + 1 ) = 1875 damage
Continuity:
288 x ( 5.2 + 1 ) = 1786 damage
Continuity + Constitution:
237 x ( 6.32 + 1 ) = 1735 damage
There's currently no benefit of using power duration to improve Miasma's damage output, which is unfortunate since power duration positively affects the rest of Saryn's powers.
I apologize if I seem hasty with my assumption that this was intended; power duration reducing Miasma's base damage could very well be an unintended side effect. It's just that Trinity's Energy Vampire suffers a somewhat similar fate in that the energy restoration it provides takes much longer to complete with increased power duration. As I would like to see that feature of Energy Vampire improved, Saryn's Miasma does not need to have its DPS or total damage reduced with power duration mods. -
Unfortunately, my observations do not match what you are seeing from datamining.
I'm seeing Miasma dealing 375 corrosive damage per second (base), increased by power strength and reduced by power duration. It's base duration is 4 seconds. With no power duration mods, Miasma will inflict a total of five damage ticks (from t = 0 to t = 4). With Continuity and Constitution, seven damage ticks are inflicted plus one reduced damage tick (although the damage value appears next to Saryn instead of the enemy).
Power duration mods decrease Miasma's DPS and total damage:
No power duration mods:
375 x ( 4 + 1 ) = 1875 damage
Continuity:
288 x ( 5.2 + 1 ) = 1786 damage
Continuity + Constitution:
237 x ( 6.32 + 1 ) = 1735 damageI'm not a fan of power duration reducing Miasma's base damage (assuming that's an intended feature), but I'll provide my feedback in the appropriate thread.
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After testing Miasma a bit more this evening, I've come to realize the source of the issue.
The patch notes are definitely correct; Miasma was given a damage increase. Without power duration mods, Miasma deals 375 corrosive damage per second. However, when I was noticing 237 base damage I had Continuity and Constitution equipped for +58% power duration. Additional power duration is actually decreasing Miasma's base damage: 375 / 1.58 = 237. Of Saryn's powers, this behavior only seems exclusive to Miasma.
- Increased power duration reduces Miasma's DPS.
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Nice. Thanks for looking into everything. I'll update the older posts when I have the chance.
Regarding Miasma, it definitely seems to deal corrosive damage: it doesn't bypass shields, and deals half damage to Corpus tech shields. Considering the ~237 base damage I mentioned before and +30% power strength, against a level 1 lancer I see 497 damage:
237 x 1.3 x 1.75 x [ 1 - 100 x 0.25 / ( 300 + 100 x 0.25 ) ] = 497
What confused me is why 237 base damage? I think I've figured out what's going on. In this example, I have Continuity and Constitution equipped for +58% power duration. Without power duration mods, Miasma deals 375 corrosive damage per second. The odd "237" I've been observing seems to be caused by additional power duration decreasing Miasma's base damage: 375 / 1.58 = 237.
- Power duration mods currently weaken Miasma's DPS.
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I'm continuing to update my previous post as hotfixes are released. Let me know if you guys are observing what I'm observing, especially Venom's client behavior and Miasma's base damage reduction.
I still need to test Hysteria's health regeneration, and all of Oberon's powers (as soon as he's built).
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I'm noticing some more odd client behavior with Saryn.
Venom appears to be dealing a significant amount of extra damage to shields. Against a crewman, casting Venom inflicts 78 damage per second per spore (instead of the usual 13 with Focus equipped). When spores are popped, nearby enemies take 52 damage per second per spore. The extra damage dealt seems to be based on the number of spores that are transmitted. For instance when Venom is first cast six spores are transmitted: 13 x 6 = 78 damage. When spores are popped four spores are transmitted: 13 x 4 = 52 damage. After shields have been depleted the damage returns to normal. When playing as host this behavior is not present.
I'm still curious about Miasma's base damage reduction. From Megan's post, I was honestly expecting its base damage to be 300+ corrosive damage per second. The decrease from 250 base to 237 just seems unintentional, as warframe powers typically have base damage that's divisible by 5.
EDIT: It turns out power duration was the culprit for Miasma's reduced base damage. Look here for more information.
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Just confirming that with U11.5.3, Saryn's proposed changes are in place: Venom is now dealing viral damage, and Miasma is dealing corrosive damage. However, it was mentioned that Miasma would receive a damage increase. What I'm noticing is that Miasma's base damage has actually decreased from 250 to ~237 damage per second.
I wanted to ask if this was an intentional change.
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Saryn's proposed changes are not in effect. Venom and Miasma are still dealing toxin damage, and Miasma's base damage has not been increased. We'll have to wait for DE to respond with a hotfix.
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It doesn't seem like Saryn's changes went through with U11.5.
Venom is supposed to be dealing viral damage, but it's currently dealing reduced damage to robotics, bypasses shields, and procs toxin debuffs. It seems to be dealing toxin damage as it was before the update. The same is true for Miasma: it's bypassing shields, it's dealing 1.5x damage to flesh, and 0.75x damage to robotics. Its base damage also appears to be unchanged.
Saryn does not seem to be inflicting the damage types that were intended, and Miasma's base damage remains the same.
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There's quite a lot to go over with U11.5.
- Armour/Shield/Health/Damage curves have been modified. We’ve lowered the “bullet sponge” to high level enemies, but they now deal more damage. The armour curve was radically dropped. The health and shields curves dropped slightly as well. However, damage output went up.
After a bit of testing, the new armor scaling equation appears to be the following:
armor = base armor + base armor x 0.005 x ( current level - base level ) ^ 1.75
This needs confirmation by anyone with access to datamining tools.The http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_2.0'>resistance table has expanded, where each faction now has four surface types. I have not checked every resistance, but I can confirm that impact damage deals -25% damage to cloned flesh, slash damage has a -15% modifier to ferrite armor, and puncture damage has a +15% modifier to alloy armor despite what the wiki claims. Here's some information from additional preliminary tests:
Ember
Fireball still does 400 heat damage (affected by power strength), and has a 100% chance to proc. The projectile's travel time appears to be improved. This requires more testing to understand the mechanics of the radial damage component.
Accelerant seems to increase heat damage by 2.5x (affected by power strength). It functions as an area stun and debuff, which lasts for a duration. Essentially, any enemy within range will take additional heat damage from what seems to be all sources. I've tested this with Dual Heat Sword's slam attack, Ember's powers, and elemental damage on weapons: all of these heat damage sources inflict amplified damage to debuffed enemies. For instance with Focus equipped, a +90% heat damage mod on your weapon will receive a 3.25x multiplier, increasing the damage to +90% x 3.25 = +292.5%. Here's what that looks like with a Vectis (base damage) against several Grineer:
Expected:
Observed:
I have not tested Fire Blast, so stay tuned.
World on Fire still does 400 heat damage per tick (affected by power strength). Again, this needs more testing.
Saryn
With U11.5.3, Venom is now dealing 10 viral damage per second for every spore transmitted. Popping a spore also deals 25 viral damage. Power strength still affects the DoT and burst damage. Now that Venom deals viral damage, it's possible for each damage tick to trigger a debuff that reduces the enemy's health (current and max) by 50% for a duration.
Venom also appears to have some odd client behavior. Against shields, I've noticed that the damage inflicted by each spore is multiplied by the number of spores transmitted to an enemy (up to 13 x 6 = 78 damage per second when first cast, and 13 x 4 = 52 damage per second when spores are spread). I can't replicate this behavior when hosting.
I have not tested Molt or Contagion.
Miasma now deals 237 corrosive damage per second. As the U11.5 patch notes claim that Miasma received a damage increase, I doubt the current damage reduction (250 to 237) was intentional.I need to test if Miasma's base duration has been modified with the update.EDIT: It seems as though Miasma's base damage is actually reduced by power duration mods. Look three posts down for more info.
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It "doubles damage" in the sense that your enemy has half the health it normally has. So it will take you half as long to kill it. I don't consider the effect wearing off as an auto-heal since the enemy never gains more health than what it started with. Whatever damage is dealt while the debuff is active is still inflicted after the effect wears off. Venom with toxin damage does not have this kind of utility, even if it does depend on probability. We'll just have to see how frequently the viral debuffs proc.
Armor resistances currently affect both an enemy's armor and health. Corrosive damage would affect a Grineer as follows:
damage x 1.75 x ( 1 - modified damage reduction ) = final damage
where modified damage reduction = armor x 0.25 / [ ( armor x 0.25 ) + 300 ].
For toxin damage, you would replace the 1.75 with 1.5 x 1.25 = 1.875. In the modified damage reduction, 0.25 becomes 0.75. If a tick of Miasma dealt 325 toxin damage, a level 1 lancer would take 487 damage. If Miasma dealt 325 corrosive damage, a level 1 lancer would take 525 damage. A corrosive Miasma outperforms a toxin Miasma against armored enemies.
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The viral proc gives you a roughly 6 second window to deal 2x damage to the target (considering its health has been halved). I'm not sure how the viral proc stacks, but I assume it either prolongs the 6 second window, or further halves the target's health for a duration. Considering that there are 6 DoTs occurring on a target with Venom (and 4 on each nearby enemy when spores are popped), it seems like Venom could have some late-game usage assuming multiple procs occur within a single cast.
As for Miasma, making it deal corrosive damage will bring it closer to how the old Miasma behaved when it ignored armor. Toxin damage is not what makes Venom or Miasma deal damage over time. Starting at t = 0, Miasma will deal X amount of corrosive damage per second. Its damage will take longer to diminish against high-armored targets compared to toxin damage, and has no negative resistances.
These sound like favorable changes to me, and I'm curious to see how effective they are.
Upcoming Saryn Changes
in Warframes
Posted
Hey, no problem.
Prior to U11.5, increased power duration positively affected all of Saryn's abilities. They simply extended the amount of time each power was active, allowing more damage to be inflicted, and granting Molt a longer lifetime. The previously described mechanics only apply to the current Miasma. So it's not the case that a low-duration Venom will have stronger damage ticks, or a low-duration Contagion will inflict higher toxin damage. If you want Miasma to deal high damage, you have to sacrifice the duration of the rest of Saryn's powers. If you want Venom/Molt/Contagion to have a high duration, you have to sacrifice Miasma's total damage and DPS.