Archimedes01
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Posts posted by Archimedes01
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Here is a video from Devstream 32: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uqy441sjlRI
Queens: "We tire of failure. Who put their faith in you, Admiral?"
C. Vor: "You did! I have a life debt..."
Queens: "To repay in Tenno blood!"
C. Vor: "I understand..."
Queens: "Do not awaken the vipers! Do not study them! Crush these eggs BEFORE they hatch! This, we command!"
C. Vor: "My Queens... klos aki (this time)-"
Queens: "Take the rail to Pluto! Borrol is in command now, Captain Vor."
We have yet to run into Admiral Borrol, who replaced Captain Vor after his demotion.
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27 minutes ago, (PS4)ZERO_ghost90 said:
You mean crimson king? Is this some kind of reference to something?
It's not a reference to anything. It's part of some new radio transmissions by a person called Nora Night. She mentions the Red King in one of her messages. This video contains all her transmissions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkwdRGagAGQ
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9 minutes ago, ChaoticEdge said:
Red King is referring as grineer. Hunhow is sentient so they might of met each other and do lollygag stuff and Hunhow isn't there for words and claiming titles. These probably witness of the event of the red king. The grineer has the memories of Red King how he started, I am sure its be the best to split the DNA in many of soldiers and make stronger and better units. To think about it Veytor sound like Vey Hek and all the V for all the bosses...🤔I could be wrong think about it maybe they are piece of Red King's DNA or either all the bosses love the letter V alot and its becoming to sound like rhyming game.
I'll start, Veytor, VeyHek, Vor...pretty much thous guys start with V then you have other ppl DNA mix into that as well thanks to Orokin's DNA into the mix thanks to the other one so corrupted name become invalid...To come think about it it is possible to jam ppl name together then again its be pointless to think about what is what so that would be random rant.
At the time being the puzzel might lead to that cloning warframe or something like that
I want to point at that during the Orokin Era they already had Grineer soldiers specifically made to be soldiers while they used Grineer slave laborers to create the Grineer enemies we face today. In addition to that, Veytok is different from the other clones, not only was he more massive but he grew more and more intelligent by the day instead of the opposite due to the usual Grineer clone deterioration failsafe that the Orokin had placed on the new clones in case of a rebellion. So my guess is that Veytok didn't allow himself to be cloned but he may have found a way to make himself immortal, remember the fat Kuva Guardians? He may be just like them but bigger and muscular with a lot of tech on him like Sargas Ruk
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58 minutes ago, CriticalFumble said:
Sssssargus Ruk.
I mean, it seems centered on the Saturn sub-system, and Ruk uses a lot of fire, and "wolf" is sometimes used metaphorically to refer to soldiers/warriors, especially if they plunder (as far as I've seen). The "Red King" and the "Wolf of Saturn 6" could be two ways to refer to the same individual or two different characters - the King could be the antagonist and the Wolf might be Nora and/or the organization she starts.
Personally I'm struck by her talking to the "dreamers". In the game's context, Tenno are called "dreamers" by the Grineer Queens, and presumably anyone else who understood them on that level. Ignoring the Tenno specifically, though, she could be talking to the people being suppressed by the Grineer empire and can't see a different future.
Guess we'll see soon enough.
Steve said he would be a new villain entirely, but the train of thought my leader had went like this: Since Nora Night's radio transmissions clearly refer to the Wolf of Saturn and DE Steve said that the Wolf of Saturn will be a completely new enemy and since it will take place in Saturn which is 100% Grineer with a few infestation, my guess is that this new enemy will also be Grineer. Nora Night also brought up the wolves and sheep terminologies and you have to think about what the difference between a wolf and a sheep. A wolf is someone who's part of a team or they can go solo but most importantly they can be someone who leads as well. While the sheep is simply someone who follows and can't really think for themselves. The Tenno are certainly wolves and no sheep but this new enemy is no sheep either. And in addition to her mentioning the Red King I almost immediately referenced back to Veytok somehow, cause this Veytok guy is basically the first leader of the Grineer and you could consider him the King of Grineer in a way.
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I should clarify what I mean by that. Veytok is the name of a Grineer rebel around the time the Tenno betrayed the Orokin. If you're interested in where this information comes from, read the Guardsman synthesis imprint here in the wiki: https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Guardsman
Veytok was my clan leader's first guess on who this Red King is. His second guess was himself, but lets go with the former. Veytok was apparently the leader of the Grineer before the Twin Queens, he also has the ability to lead and command the Grineer and act on his own. I wanna emphasize on how he's much larger than the other Grineer and he's quite the skilled fighter based on Synthesis Imprint. My clan leader's third guess is that this Red King might be an entirely new character as a whole, but his gut feeling tells him that the characters in all the Synthesis Imprints are going to start becoming more relevant and some of them might even appear in the main story from now on.
He also added that Veytok was capable of killing low tier Dax easily and possesses incredible combat ability along with his massive size, it doesn't matter how many sheep there are, Tenno, Veytok will definitely pose a threat and maybe even be capable of taking down Tenno and Warframe at our fullpower. This would be exciting, since unlike Stalker who simply cancels out our ability, we have yet to have an enemy who could fight like us and beat us with our own strength while we're at our best.
He also wanted to add that Nora Night might be Bilsa (an Orokin betrayer) in disguise, leading the Tenno to a trap, and how there were also these Grineer soldiers that served the Orokin before they started making Grineer soldiers out of the regular Grineer slaves.
This is all speculation at this point. What are your thoughts on this?
Edit: New information has come out. According to the trivia section of the Nora Night wikia page, the Red King is a reference to Stephen King's "The Dark Tower" series. https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Nora_Night
"...The Red King, is pulling the strings from the shadows, in order to destroy all the universes connected to the Tower. One of the ways he does this is by a group of mounted robots known as Grey Wolves."
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On 2019-02-08 at 7:40 PM, ChaoticEdge said:
consider it to think about it I still don't trust the man of the wall it feels like a character of the Joker, and if you don't have batman you don't know what he will do. The fact Sliver is the sliver tongue and Silences is Gold, matter the fact it doesn't have to do with physiological, yet stories we have kuva floating, same with ... Vor...which version to call him by...Corrupted Vor he has a quote and listen carefully.
He said something a prophet person and not by lotus he referring to, he do too believed this man is real and he does exist. Lotus doesn't prophetess to us, only breif us. I know when 1 go crazy then there is something there is speaking to their mind.
6I believe Corrupt Vor has simply gone mad due to the Janus Key and he has nothing to do with the wall but rather the Janus Key itself. One day I hope to take that key away from him and open a portal to see where this Janus Key takes us and why it's called the Janus key. Cause Janus is the god of beginnings and endings, he has two heads, one looking to the past, and the other looking to the future. You could almost say it's the same as the Unum and the Quills, but somehow I feel like DE has completely forgotten about Corrupt Vor.
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4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:
And honestly. I dont think I'll ever get to the point of feeling something like catharsis from a game, book, movie or even song. I dont think any of those can ever get me to feel a cleansing moment.
2Then you haven’t watched or read a truly good book that can do that. I think Detroit Become Human is a great game that might actually be able to do that for you.
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On 2019-02-07 at 9:00 AM, ChaoticEdge said:
I find him as another motionless robot or calamity, then again he could be another Joker or Jack (borderland 2 and 1.5). Of course he copy the image of the operator and do mocking of the lotus so basically more of joker who barely lift his finger for this and why do I view him as Jack and joker, now the question is the man in the wall is ally or foe and if foe then it is possible chance we will end up fighting it (denominational mind room probably).
I think this man in the wall is a person just like a ghost, a phantom and only can be seen certain people why do you think rell speak about him or what is it he is really planning, he did try harm us during harrow's quest and I am sure he is acting like the joker the possible he can send people into the madness and cause people to slay one another, its one the perfect toxic to be, if you go into rell story he knew the man in the wall isn't really an ally and I am consider him as an enemy and ppl its not autism cause mental issue to make things worsten which rell handle that pretty well knowing who is his mama.
5I'm so glad you posted these videos, especially the second one. I just wanted to take some points from that 2nd video which highlighted some motives that "The Man in the Wall" may have. The first point he makes is the Man In The Wall does want us to survive and win against the Sentient. He does take a lot of interest in us since we are indeed the unification of the void and normal space and he is the very same entity that gave us the powers of the void. Not only that but according to the Quills and the Unum, multiple different timelines converge on us. Another point is that he basically views himself as our father figure, a very tough one that wants us to suffer and despair but also wants us to survive and win, but why? To simply take over our body for what purpose? What could this ancient entity that's older than the stars want with entry into our world? To me, it just seems like they're really bored in the void and they want to play Warframe cause it's so much fun, but they can't make their own account so they have to steal ours! BUT! That's not really the case either. It seems he's more interested in just watching over us and making sure we survive and win. Suffering and despair are important tools for growing and developing emotionally and psychologically, it will make us strong if it doesn't break us first.
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On 2019-02-07 at 6:54 AM, SneakyErvin said:
Actually Achilles did achieve/reach catharsis through his acts, the word is even mentioned in the iliad in connection these events. And as I said, it isnt up to the viewer to decide wether a person experiences catharsis or not, the word has nothing to do with good or evil. It is about cleansing and purification, something that can deal with both good, evil or that in between. Glass in Unbreakable is a prime example of someone evil reaching catharsis. Then you have other fictive characters that are similar to eachother but where only on of them gets to this point. Rocket Raccoon and Punisher are two. Rocket mentions catharsis on several occassions, how he feels it at times when blasting bad space dudes, it drives him from his tortured past into something new where he feels great, has a purpose and get to blast stuff with his favorite guns without being a bad guy. Frank however who also does his business wiping out badguys never reaches this state, he doesnt even get there when he finaly finds those involved in killing his family. Frank still feels that tragedy and it doesnt matter how much blood he spills, he still feels the same S#&$ty way. However, it doesnt make him less of a hero.
And it should be remembered that the idea of catharsis through psychoanalysis is a fairly new idea and not the original idea that has been around for thousands of years.
I still don't think Achilles is the best example of this. While your example is good I think you sort of missed the point here. It's not just catharsis for the characters or the Tenno but the catharsis for the players as well. When "The Second Dream" happened some players cried during the revelation that they were not the all-powerful Warframe but a child. Why is that? It's partly due to the realization of how far Warframe has come as a game but also the realization that the Tenno were not strong but frail children who searched for strength and dreamed about what they could be with that strength. But a lot of players kind of put themselves in the shoes of the Warframe rather than the Operator, so to find something so weak and defenseless that depends on us kind of tickled our maternal or paternal instincts, especially as we watched the Operator crawl towards our Warframe and for the first time in a game where we were so overpowered, we felt vulnerable-- and strangely it also felt refreshing. We also got to watch the Operator grow from a child that possessed self-hate upon realization of what they truly were as well as angst towards others. Catharsis was most present during "The War Within" where we were pushed into despair by the queens but Teshin, whom we initially hated for being a Dax and belittling us, as well as serving the queens, turned out to actually be helping us regain our true powers of the void as well as the memories of Zariman 10-0 and so we risked coming back to save him. In our despair we found strength and we see it again in "The Sacrifice" where our most painful memories allowed us to bond with Umbra and take away its pain. A parent who lost its child and a child who lost its parents.
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On 2019-02-06 at 6:49 AM, SneakyErvin said:
But it is never for others to decide wether or not a person reaches catharsis or something else. Only the person commiting the act knows becase he is the only one that can feel how the event has impacted him. Even according to the old story of Troy, Achilles does indeed reach a point of catharsis in the events centered around Hector's death. We arent sure though which part of the act leads him there, all we know is that he gets there. This can either be from the act of revenge when taking Hector's life, or from the saticfaction of desecrating his body, or at the point when he gives the body back to the people of Troy.
The satisfaction gained from the suffering of others through revenge is nothing more than just petty sadism and self-fulfillment, it's also a sign of some greater underlying flaws within such characters. But that being said, I wouldn't say Achilles was one of such people. When Achilles killed the man who killed his friend in a duel and desecrated his corpse out of anger, he fully knew that this would change nothing and it certainly didn't make him feel better. However, in doing so he lost the favor of the gods and this ultimately leads to his death. The best example of catharsis that you might know of would probably be from Christopher Nolan's "The Dark Knight", the scene where Bruce Wayne has a gun and has the opportunity to shoot his parent's murderer in the courtroom but he ultimately chooses not to, this is a true sign of growth that would ultimately lead to him becoming a true hero that we know him as today. There's even a very in-depth psychoanalysis on Batman done by the history channel to explain why he's such a great character
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This is him: https://imgur.com/iTpW20z
Come to Larunda Relay 1 on NA server if you want to talk about Warframe lore. Look for Zarozian -
40 minutes ago, Neuerwinter said:
Does he also holds preachings in the dojo and you have to refer to him as papa Jones?
I hear he does that all the time in Larunda Relay 1.
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7 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:
Catharsis has many meanings. And in the setting of WF I'm looking at it from the core meaning which is that of purification/cleansing and reaching a "higher state" of self being, much like when Achilles achieved catharsis after killing Hector. The prior tragedy didnt bring him there, but vengeance cleansed him and brought him peace (both in mind and soul). So I dont think Wally has much to do with catharsis for the tenno. If they do indeed suffer emotional distress due to tragedies of the past I think they'll probably reach catharsis when they stab granny in the face with paracesis.
I think getting revenge leaves a sense of nihilism rather than catharsis. As with all stories of revenge, usually when one succeeds they end up becoming no better than the person who they took vengeance upon. This is not catharsis at all but the exact opposite, which taints and corrupts. It doesn't bring peace at all but emptiness. The older black haired man whose wife was killed is an example of someone who has achieved revenge and ended up becoming nihilistic instead. While the younger man who had his sister brutally beaten and sexually assaulted by a thug is on the brink of reaching either catharsis or nihilism after that intense moment of anger and rage. We the viewers can reach catharsis too by empathizing with this character and feeling the same anger as he did: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwdVoFTMj7w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj8I8Qg6wyI The main protagonist manages to convince the young man from killing the other man but then the older man provokes him and he snaps which results in him becoming no different than the older man whom he hates. Unfortunately, I can't find any clips depicting the entire scene so if you are interested, you can just watch Episode 9 of Death Parade specifically.
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I think getting revenge leaves a sense of nihilism rather than catharsis. As with all stories of revenge, usually when one succeeds, they end up becoming no better than the person who they took vengeance upon. This is not catharsis at all but the exact opposite, which taints and corrupts. It doesn't bring peace at all but emptiness. The older black haired man whose wife was killed is an example of someone who has achieved revenge and ended up becoming nihilistic instead. While the younger man who had his sister brutally beaten and sexually assaulted by a thug is on the brink of reaching either catharsis or nihilism after that intense moment of anger and rage. We the viewers can reach catharsis too by empathizing with this character and feeling the same anger as he did: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwdVoFTMj7w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj8I8Qg6wyI The main protagonist manages to convince the young man from killing the other man but then the older man provokes him and he snaps which results in him becoming no different than the older man whom he hates. Unfortunately, I can't find any clips depicting the entire scene so if you are interested, you can just watch Episode 9 of Death Parade specifically.
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9 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:
I'm not really sure how catharsis fits in. Nothing that has happened to the tenno has changed their fate really, not until the moment they got let out of the box on Lua, which really wasnt thanks to Wally. They've been slaves with a purpose since birth. First sent into the void as an expedition, getting lost, only to come back as slaves to an Orokin experiment due to their void powers. And even after all that they were still slaves to the Lotus with little will or knowledge of what was right or wrong.
And they are still slaves even with Lotus not present, because they still follow her ideas regarding keeping balance in the system.
I could see one part of catharsis if the Tenno actually broke free and acted out of their own will and ideals, but they really dont. The possible death of their parents on the Zariman changed nothing. Honestly, I think the tenno are emotionally void when it even comes to the idea of parents.
Nothing has happened "yet". What I am expecting is that things will only get much worse from here as hinted by the tragedy that is Deck 12 on Fortuna, things can get pretty dark really quickly and this is good for Warframe's story. You seem to have this misconception of catharsis being about breaking out of fate, but that's not what catharsis is. Catharsis is basically a feels trip where you feel all sorts of emotion from reading a really good book or watching a really sad and epic anime and empathizing with the characters to the point where you really care about them and their story as well as what happens to them and they go through a series of events that force you to feel the same way as they do, and after crying over them and feeling angry for them and depressed even, you experience Catharsis, the process of releasing, and thereby providing relief from, strong or repressed emotions. That's why people enjoy watching horror and tragedies so much cause they like feeling scared or sad. This video really explains it well so you should rewatch this carefully this time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61Kh28P2Pgk -
10 hours ago, StratosOmega said:
I have this wild imagination about the man in the wall actually being a kid that was exposed to void energy.
Being immortal from now on, he had to watch everyone he loved die. Getting to know people and live beyond their lifespan turned him insane over the amount of time. Such a long time, that people assume he is "as old as the stars".
This now insane being likes to point out the cruel irony of time, that everything is repeating itself, almost like an echo, throughout time.
Ballas had to watch the one he loved die. Umbra had to watch the one he loved die. We had to watch the one we loved die. Everything the man in the wall does leads to one inevitable truth: Love must die.
He probably wants us to kill Natah, just to keep the cycle intact. He wants to test us if we will become him, if we can't outbalance the pain.
I personally think that the connection between the Operator and Umbra (and now Ballas as well) is capable of breaking that cycle. The New War will be the turning point where we upset the man in the wall by breaking his mad play and getting him to act as himself for the first time.
That would be plausible if it was not stated that "Wally/Catharsis" is "older than the the stars themselves" and the oldest known star being around 13.2 billion years predates humanity's existence. What would make sense is if Wally/Catharsis was a member of an ancient civilization which existed before the big bang and the start of the universe and they some how ended up in the Void and the Void existed before the universe was born. So rather than some kid, it would make more sense if Wally/Catharsis is God. Not one that represents only light and good but one that will do evil for necessary results that aid in good. What I meant by that is; "Some of the best heroes and the best people in general, only appear in times of great suffering and chaos, if there is no evil to rise up against, then these people will remain mostly neutral, complacent, and will probably live life never realizing their full potential. So I believe that what Wally wants is catharsis for the Tenno through tragedy and the tragedy of those around them, like a light that only shines the brightest in the pitchest black of darkness. I personally would like to experience great sadness and shock and feel depressed due to the events that happen to the characters in Warframe where you're actually hurting for them and want them to succeed cause they fail and fail, over and over again. What this will do is make players more emotionally invested into the story and the game because they empathize more with the characters.
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9 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:
This is a totally off topic question but if that's what they wanted, why didn't they do it themselves?
Due to some errant behavior, he got banned from the forums. It took nothing out of my day to help him share a theory.
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35 minutes ago, Urlan said:
Not quite sure what you are going for here honestly; from what we do know in the game; Wally is at best an entity that just likes to mess with us; drive sentient beings insane; and possess stuff for giggles. Its so far, the very text-book example of a malignant star god type entity and if nothing else if Rell is anything to go by; insanely bad for everything in real space to gain full freedom. Umbra has anti-Sentient deals built-in because Ballas, Helminth, or someone that had access to his containment capsule of Lua since Ballas had the Old Dax kill his son modified his design to be so. Nothing there has anything to do with his misery, or Wally on the surface at least; I mean realistically Umbra has only become active since the Old War, after the events of 2nd Dream; and likely Wally hasn't had any interest in such since until just recently in Chains of Harrow, most of Wally's attention was held in the slowly falling apart prison that was Rell's mind and his Harrow's immortal body. Just look at what Wally did to the poor sods of Rell's Red Veil Elite, possessing them and forcing them to kill their allies in Steel Meridian and attempt the same with Palladino's entourage - herself the mystic and one of the Leaders of Red Veil.
To put it in perspective, as represented so far, the Tenno themselves would represent catharsis for Umbra Excalibur - the Old Dax - for the loss of his son to himself; us putting helping Baro understand and accept his childhood and belief in Inaros when his people were killed by Grineer; Amaryn accepting the true nature of the Silver Grove and Earth's recovery; Teshin's enslavement to the hated Orokin Elite survivors in War Within; saving the future generations of the Myconian children or allowing them to continue their way of life at the continued sacrifice of their children; allowing Rell to stop his failing defense against the risk he viewed Wally to represent. We represented those changes, became the agency of that healing. Wally had little to nothing to do with any of it except as an observer laughing at the struggles of what he views as playthings and pawns. If anything we take away that pain; while Wally represents the madness that we might some day lose ourselves to if we drift off of our personal balance.
Those are very good counter points and you may be right about something as old as stars just messing around with us, but they also seem to be helping us as well in this strange manner. If we never suffered, then how could we ease the suffering of Umbra and feel compelled to help others? Maybe these things are not directly related with what "Wally" wants but it still remains true that something good can come out of something bad. What we think is that "Wally" is a being who is aware of that and actually manipulates a better outcome through his meddling.
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Well that's not really the point that my original post is trying to make, but the original parents of the Tenno seem to have died off screen either way. No matter what choice was made.
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I made a mistake and my clan leader wanted it under General Discussions and not Off Topics. And yes, I could wait until a Moderator moved it, but that would take a while.
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So I wanted to share this theory that my clan leader has on the "Man in the Wall". What the "Man in the Wall" did to the Tenno and their parents on the Zariman was necessary for the Tenno themselves, cause for some reason, Void powers are stronger in those with memories of greater suffering. This might be a stretch but those horrific memories that Umbra had made his powers capable of really harming the Sentient. Ballas made Umbra kill his own son to bring out its void powers while the "Man in the Wall" forced the Tenno to kill their parents to bring about theirs. We viewed this as a necessary evil which allowed the Tenno to accomplish transference and ease Umbra's pain as transference becomes two-way, as the memories of our suffering bleed into Umbra in addition to Umbra's single seething memory of him killing his own son becomes our own. This is what the "Man in the Wall" wanted, and in some twisted way and this actually helps the Tenno develop somehow. Which is why we believe the "Man in the Wall" is Catharsis. If you are still confused of what we mean by that, please watch the video below.
Now they clearly had their void powers given to them by the "Man in the Wall" to defend themselves as the "Man in the Wall" controls their parents and gives the Tenno no choice but to kill their own parents. But why? Why would something that's OLDER than the stars themselves do such a thing? The "Man in the Wall" may have done it cause it possesses omniscience, it can see past, present, and future. It knows that our suffering now will allow us to connect with Umbra's suffering and take away each others pain, giving us power but also the ability to understand each other. The "Man in the Wall" is "good" but in an evil way. He will teach us why the cruelty and horrors of this world are necessary for us to grow up properly
The "Man in the Wall", Ballas, Hunhow, and even the Lotus's mother may exist in the morally gray area along with us. It's very clear that Warframe are not just black and white, there is no good or evil, and what can be scarier than an evil that we can see ourselves in? My clan leader also wants us all to call the "Man in the Wall" "Catharisis" from now on because of this reason. The name is extremely fitting and appropriate for him.
Without tragedy or suffering, we would most likely end up like the Orokin, who knew nothing but a life of luxury and indulgence.
The Red King's Identity
in General Discussion
Posted
It's been so long since I've seen RedText that it never crossed my mind that Red King = RedText!
We've already thought about that but it would just be kind of sad to not be introduced to a new cast of characters that are memorable. Like so many people are too quick to wanna betray the Lotus and kill her because there was never any real bond between us or any connection at all. We don't have a Seargent Johnson from Halo or any other character that has fought along side us, saved us, and had some memorable moments with that would be enough for us to devastate us and make us cry and become depressed if they died, like there's literally no emotional investment at all in Warframe's story. You pick any character from Warframe and kill them off and I guarantee you not a single one of us will shed a tear
Some of my guesses would be that they kept him in cryosleep and only awaken him in times of emergency (such as the death of the Grineer Queens), or when the Sentients have started to return and the Grineer falls into great danger which would require them to awaken their hero. My other guess is that he's dealing with the Duviri, and perhaps that the Duviri are an old enemy of the Orokin which the Grineer were left to deal with after we wiped out the Orokin.