Gamer_Auto
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Posts posted by Gamer_Auto
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3 minutes ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:
I have a question for time travellers.
Don't be a jackass.
Just now, Aruquae said:I don’t know about that one
Seems you wanted items from the founder pack to become available
Part of me does, yes. I can't stand having those Codex Entries visible but being unable to fill them. And I know it's pie-in-the-sky thinking. But in the event they were, then not as a regular Prime Access. It would need to be special, like the way I suggested in the damn top post. If you're not going to actually read and take part in the conversation, then get the hell out.
Just now, Genitive said:I did read it. The items are not returning, no matter how many times you plead. Which is what this thread is, a "please bring back the founder items" in disguise.
It's not. It's a question to Founders, to get their input on a hypothetical. You're just here to be a jackass. Leave.
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30 minutes ago, Genitive said:
They won't release the founder items again.
You obviously didn't read. Get out of my thread if you're not actually going to read it.
28 minutes ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:I'm no founder but legit the only way I could ever, ever, see founder stuff be available for everyone is if the game has a set date for a shutdown, meaning the game will end, no more Warframe. So they just give it to everyone while the game still has time left.
Otherwise it's never returning.
That'd be a jerk move, especially for DE.
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I expect him to essentially be a better Lavos: not as many combos to worry about, not heavily reliant on a signature weapon/heavy status spreader to make his 4 actually worth something.
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Context for those peeking in who don't know:
SpoilerBack at the end of 2012 and throughout 2013, there was something called The Founders Program, which was sort of a prototype Prime Access with extra benefits. As part of the incentives to join the program at higher tiers, DE created the first ever Prime equipment: the legendary Excalibur Prime, Lato Prime, and Skana Prime. After the program ended, DE stated on multiple occasions that they would never release Excal, Lato, and Skana Primes outside the Founders program; and have kept that promise for over a decade. And before anyone brings up "The Contract", that's been proven a myth; and I won't believe that unless you provide actual evidence.
Many Founders have gone AWOL and never returned, for multiple reasons. Many of those accounts still have the original Primes in their inventories. My question to any remaining Founders is:
In the highly improbable event that DE were to release the original Primes to the larger public, would you be okay with that, and how would you prefer it to be done? And this is strictly talking about the items, and not the other perks.
IF they ever did it, I could see it as a raffle where X amount of people (with X = inactive Founders) are picked at random from a pool of entrants. I could see the bundle being something only dusted off once every TennoCon season, either as a contest prize, an extremely rare Twitch Drop, or an extremely rare Twitch Giveaway.
And considering we already have Excalibur Umbra (whose stats are exactly equal to ExcalPrime), they could only re-release Lato and Skana Prime with the above conditions, just so we could have the full Prime Braton-Lato-Skana set available to the public.-
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4 hours ago, taiiat said:
in your "ideal game design", basically everything other than the 'current meta' would be functionally useless, and so we'd have less Gear diversity than we have now.
You're totally misunderstanding me, but I'm tired of trying to explain myself. Go ahead and believe whatever you want to believe I meant. Makes no difference.
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4 hours ago, taiiat said:
for the most part i think this works out acceptably - the Factions tend to have different Health Types, but they do overlap a few of them. if they were all unique it'd likely just end up being bloat, honestly. because the types couldn't be too different from each other as otherwise we'd need more Damage Types than we have now, and that would just add permutation bloat without really making anything better.
Enemies are capable of providing "different experiences" within the Damage Types and Health Types that we have now, if you ask me. they don't always do that, but the capability is there.We have 14 different damage types accessible to players (including Void, not including True or background calculation types). DE could (and probably should) make a unique combat experience for each faction. Let's use the two most common enemy factions, Grineer and Corpus, as an example.
Grineer could easily have Cloned Flesh or Machinery as their "under the armor" health type depending on if the enemy is organic or mechanical, and can then have Ferrite or Alloy armor layered on top of it if the enemy is a Light or Heavy unit. And no Grineer enemies except Liches or other types of Bosses could have Shields (not Proto Shields, just basic shields).
Similarly, Corpus can have Flesh or Robotic (organic or robotic) under a layer of Shields or Proto Shields (Light or Heavy). And no unit other than bosses or Sisters could have Ferrite Armor.
This not only fits with the lore behind each faction, but it would make you think a bit about what you're bringing to the mission regardless of whether you're a newbie just starting out or a veteran going into his daily five hour Steel Path Survival run.4 hours ago, taiiat said:the game not indicating Status immunity certainly isn't great, plus that being immune to Game Mechanics just cuz is....... well, that's not a Mechanic, that's an absence of a Mechanic.
plus ofcourse the age old issue of the UI indicating with +/- ticks in a number of increments while there are actually more increments than that in existence.Like I said in the top post, there are only a handful of enemies immune to status: Grineer Regulators, Desert Skates, the Eidolons and Vomvalysts, the two Orb Mothers, Ropalolyst, Arbitration Shield Drones, and the three Thumpers.
After that, the only enemies with partial immunity (to only Viral, btw) are Ambulas, the Deimos Heavy units (Carnis, Genetrix, Jugulus, Leaping Thrasher, Therid, Saxum, Boiler), and the Demolisher Leaping Thrasher.
Now, I'm not saying every enemy needs a full immunity. But each unit could have resistances to procs with the same intensity they resist that proc's associated damage type. It makes you think first instead of bring your mass status spreader and your Condition Overload crit stick to literally everything.4 hours ago, taiiat said:i mean, Health Types are still quite significant even with giant Stats, the Enemy has just died anyways despite it. that's to be expected in a Gear hoarding type of game. that's why we have Missions that wildly vary in Level, as well as Modifiers. if you're 'lategame' and are playing an early game Mission, then it's inevitable that your Stats will be 'bigger than the Enemy'.
Perhaps, but people at the current endgame have mod setups that completely outclass whatever they fight. The only way those people get any challenge is extremely long Solo Steel Path Survival; and that's just a band-aid fix because all that does is spawn more enemies. The stats get massive, but are largely irrelevant because they're still one-shot with Crit-based Condition Overload Smite Melee.
3 minutes ago, Ghastly-Ghoul said:Kullervo doesn't have an armor strip ability. His 3 allows the damage you deal to target to spread to linked enemies as true damage which bypasses armor but unless you're armor stripping the initial target, the damage spread won't be very high. I mean, you're still one-shotting enemies at level cap with it and a meta weapon, but armor stripping the initial target can be beneficial at level cap when you're not incorporating viral into a build and are using weapons without slash.
Thank you for the correction. For some reason I thought Kullervo had an ability that stripped armor.
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23 hours ago, Mizar5129 said:
Game AI is difficult to nail just right, and you have to consider that each smart agent will draw more computational resources to itself, vs a bunch of dumb agents.
However you can use both. Leave the basic enemies as they are and give the uncommon elite types the good AI instead of just relying on bigger health.Please note that I was NOT referring to enemy AI. Just enemies in general. On one hand, they're absolutely brilliant (example: unique factions with unique takes on similar ideas, similar yet distinct health types that have their own weaknesses and resistances). On the other hand, they're really stupid (example: cross-pollination of health types even if it doesn't make sense, some enemies are specifically made to be a metaphorical (or with WitW,a literal) brick wall that prevents players from doing what the game is made for players to do (see Nullifiers, Overguarded enemies, and anything with knockdown/stagger/otherwise action impairing attacks)).
While an entire conversation on this topic has probably been had since the game began and will continue to be relevant for it's entire lifespan, this thread is specifically looking at enemy health types, how they're copy-pasted between multiple factions instead of being unique to a single faction, how weaknesses and resistances are inconsistent (sometimes the resistance includes a proc, most times it's just the raw damage), and how resistances are only a minor inconvenience in the rare moments they happen to be any kind of factor in the overall gameplay because in 2024 big number go brr.
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6 minutes ago, Xzorn said:
You aren't wrong. Despite a lot of players enjoying single target guns. The game doesn't. Most evident in Steel Path.
I used to use all my config slots and even made more custom ones for specific long test runs trying to fish the most synergy I could out of it.
One example was a Volt run with a Viral Bleed Amprex. The weapon only has 20 base damage, eats ammo like crazy and this was before beam weapon buffs. It did have very high Crit stats. 200% x8. Volt's passive adds 1000 base damage to the weapon with Transistor Shield augment and shooting through his shield doubles Crit Damage. So I was doing little tap shots for massive bleed procs thanks to Hunter's Munitions and Bane mods. Alone none of these really stand out.
It's what I miss about the older systems. You could get very inventive to overcome obstacles.
Originally Primary Vs Secondary use was the opposite but had that interaction. Primaries had better AoE options but didn't have the status rates or damage to deal with a heavy so you'd swap to your secondary which often had much higher single target damage and status rates. That's sorta still there but few notice because enemies poof. Though when it comes to different status effects on different weapons and melee. That was a thing with Condition Overload. Prime with statuses them smack then with melee.
They've tried to replace that with Arcanes but it's not enough.
I think one of the meta strats is using Epitaph to mass-prime, then use a high-crit Melee to wipe out entire squads via Condition Overload.
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18 minutes ago, Xzorn said:
I'm actually on the opposite side of the court. Now with a Tau Emerald +3 we can strip armor to 1% or 0.8% with Corrosive Projection at 13 procs.
You actually don't want to fully strip Ferrite armor when using Corrosive. Alloy is fine. When an enemy is at 1% Ferrite armor you will deal ~58% more damage with your Corrosive since it has the +75% Modifier and double dips armor reducing what's left by another 75%. Results vary on how much Corrosive you actually deal.
It's an old endurance runner trick. The generalized parse is you don't want to fully strip with head-shots but body shots should strip at ~30% HP left.
Much like before all the Armor Strip skill additions when Corrosive wasn't capped. You can just attack again. There are cases when you would build around Armor strip. I did that back in the day but it's a very custom loadout. There's also skills with decent enough range justify their use. In the end, enemies are so easy to kill now that I kinda just can't be bothered to try special loadouts anymore. Soft capping enemy HP/Shields was a big mistake IMO.
Y'know, you post that, and I'm just thinking "I wonder why they made enemies so dumb".
Like, we have three weapon slots. In my own ideal version of Warframe, you would have one weapon for multiple enemy types. Melee for the enemies that get close, Secondary for light ranged enemies, Primary for heavy enemies; and you should only have to do a meticulous build for a particular boss type like Liches/Sisters or Eidolons or Spider-Mamas.
And then you come in here posting that and it's like...with the right setup, that's all contained to one weapon. Probably either an explosive Primary or a Melee. And that leads me to why I initially made this post: we need more diversity in combat, because Warframe's mechanics as they are now are stupid.
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2 minutes ago, Xzorn said:
One of the beefs I have with Gas change is that it's a state of matter not a damage type.
Gas is commonly used to disperse something. The Damage 2.0 version was Toxic which was fine and made sense. It was biological. Gas could be dangerous to machines. Just depends what it's spreading. You could argue the gas itself is super heated and thus the Gas itself does damage but that seems like a stretch and a bit silly.
Me saying Heat Status being too strong as controversial is just me assuming the playerbase has used it as a crutch against armor for a long period since Corrosive could only strip 80% of armor. Previously Corrosive could fully strip. Heat was still used at times because of it's extra damage against Flesh on fully stripped and it's CC.
If one were to ask me, Gas should really only be super effective against Infested (Grineer & Corpus organics have filtration tech, and their machines are...well, machines). I know that the Infestation is supposed to be this hyper-adaptive biomass, but we have Helminth. It could be very easily explained that Helminth can alter the chemical makeup of the Gas to keep pace with the rest of the Infestation adapting to it. Same with Viral and Toxin. And fire should obviously be hyper effective.
We don't even really need Corrosive on weapons anymore, though. Not with all the Armor stripping abilities on the Warframes themselves (Styanax, Kullervo, Hydroid).
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12 hours ago, Mizar5129 said:
(Also how do viral, toxin and gas procs affect machines and robots?)
Right? Logically they should be immune to biological warfare. The only explanation I could pull out my rear-end is that Toxin, Gas, and Viral damage dealt by Tenno is somehow derived from the Helminth. Otherwise, non-organic enemies should be immune to the procs as well as the damage.
12 hours ago, Mizar5129 said:Honestly the sheer number and damage of enemies at high level is more than enough to keep things interesting without giving the grunts hundreds of thousands to millions of hitpoints. The challenge should be that you killed a dozen but there's a hundred more still coming. Not that the enemies have armor made of neutronium that eats 99% of your damage and it takes five minutes to kill one guy.
I don't necessarily want it to take 5 minutes to kill one Lancer. I just want the spread to make sense. That's why I said this was smooth-brain level. I would have to get someone who actually knows this system inside and out to draft up an actual revamp.
11 hours ago, Xzorn said:What you're comparing isn't technically Damage 2.0. It's whatever this Damage 2.999 is.
Literally every damage and/or status type was not only useful but had conditions for being the best scaling option in original Damage 2.0.
Except Magnetic. It's always sucked.First thing to swap is that Bleed isn't the problem. Not the main one at least. It's Viral status. Bleed was almost never the best scaling option before Viral was changed. Yes, it killed level 100-300 Armored enemies fine but in the end other options were better. Pure Elemental weapons for example.
I still have old calcs between Viral + Bleed and Corrosive + Bleed builds and Corrosive eventually wins because you start dealing more full damage + bleeds instead of base damage + bleeds. Gas and Blast were great status effects. I have no idea why they slaughtered them. It will be controversial of me to say but Heat status is too strong also.
The faction damage bonuses is something DE scuffed over a longer period. Adding more Alloy enemies and giving Corpus / Infested Armor. There was never anything super wrong with armor other than it being used on other factions. People talk eHP but Corrosive status does eHP damage to Armor. Exactly why Pure Elemental was good.
It's not at all controversial to say Heat is good, because Heat procs also have temporary armor strip.
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SPOILER TAG IS SERIOUS. I need to talk about the whole game in it's current state in order to prove my point. And thank this video for giving me this idea.
TLDR: Damage 2.0 is bloated and easily exploited to make highest-level gameplay trivial, so it could probably use some simplification and fat trimming.---------------------------
By playing Warframe for even a few hours, you'll come across Damage Types. Physical, Basic & Combo Elemental, and Unique.
- Physical is IPS: Impact, Puncture, Slash.
- Basic Elemental is HCET: Heat, Cold, Electric, Toxin.
- Combo Elemental is (there's no snappy acronym for these): Blast, Corrosive, Gas, Magnetic, Radiation, Viral. These are special because you cannot utilize two combos that share a parent. Example: You cannot mod both Blast (Heat + Cold) and Viral (Cold + Toxin) onto your weapon.
- Unique is special stuff: Void, Tau, True, and the background info that actually makes the game do the funny number thing.
You'll also come across the Health Types once you start filling in your Codex and actually look at it for any amount of time. And this is where the game starts to get complicated, because Health Types have various resistances and weaknesses, enemies can pack more than one Health Type, and none of the Health Types are truly unique to each faction.
- Grineer, Corrupted Grineer, and Narmer Grineer have some combination of Cloned Flesh, Ferrite Armor, Alloy Armor, and Machinery (used by Grineer robots and vehicles).
- Corpus, Corrupted Corpus, and Narmer Corpus have some combination of Flesh (a distinct flesh different from Cloned Flesh), Shields, Proto Shields (supposedly stronger Shields), Ferrite & Alloy Armor, and Robotic (a distinct Robotic from Grineer Machinery).
- All forms of the Infestation have some combination of Infested, Infested Flesh (as if the other "Infested" wasn't already Infested flesh), Fossilized, Infested Sinew (yet another type of flesh used exclusively by Cambion Drift heavy units), and Ferrite Armor.
- Sentients have some combination of Flesh, Robotic, Ferrite & Alloy Armor, and Shields.
- The Murmur recently introduced with Whispers in the Walls introduced one new health type, Indifferent Facade, and otherwise have some combination of Ferrite Armor, Infested, and Machinery.
- Lastly, there's Overguard, used by Eximus units and certain other minor pains in the neck that are intended to slow us down but ultimately don't.
Now, your average player who just plays casually and doesn't take the game too seriously would think to mod their weapons for engaging with whatever specific damage types a faction is weak to. You do have three weapon slots and a Companion and a Warframe to use, after all. And for the vast majority of the content, raw damage and big thicc crit sticks are all you need. But people who have studied this game inside and out have found that it's easiest now more than ever to utilize only two Damage Types through the highest levels of content: Viral and Slash. That's because you're not going for the raw damage like a casual would think. You're specifically going for the status effects.
Each Damage Type has it's own status effect (called "proc" for short). Viral amplifies damage to a target's health by upwards of 325% if you have a stack of ten procs on one enemy. Slash deals damage directly to a target's health over time, with a higher stack increasing it's duration. And while a casual would say that Armor would reduce the damage of Slash and Shields would absorb it, that's where they're wrong.
I have no idea how or why it works this way, but from what little I understand, "armor" isn't exactly "armor" in this game. "Armor" doesn't traditionally reduce or negate damage. It more or less turns "damage reduction" into "bigger health pool" (Effective Hit Points). In short, Overguard is actually traditional armor, and Armor is just increased health. And this is where we exploit how the game is programmed.
Slash procs don't deal damage like the other damage over time procs (Heat, Elec, Tox, Gas) do. Slash uses a special background mechanic called Cinematic Damage. Cinematic Damage bypasses armor in the damage calculations. Thus Viral+Slash is so good because Viral's proc reduces an enemy's non-armor health stat and will still effect things it logically shouldn't (like Machinery, Robotic, and Indifferent Facade), Cinematic Damage bypasses the armor stat entirely and effects literally everything, and the many forms of Shield and Armor stripping available to us in the modern game can make quick work of any defenses that could slow us down. And adding an Anti-Faction mod just makes the Slash proc double dip on a damage bonus.
So basically, whenever DE tries to combat the Viral+Slash meta, they don't take into account the status effects. Just the raw damage. So even when they deploy new Health Types to specifically combat the player meta strat, like Indifferent Facade which is 50% resistant to both Viral and Slash, it doesn't make a difference because procs. And I'm just a layman, but I don't think that's healthy for the game.
So, in my layman's opinion, here's what I would do.
- Bring Slash in-line with how the other DoT procs work.
- More widely implement Status Effect Resistances beyond this pathetic little pool.
- (Optionally) Overhaul into Damage 3.0 by making all Health Types and their weakness/resistance spread exclusive to each faction. Example: Cloned Flesh, Ferrite Armor, Alloy Armor, & Machinery - and their specific weakness/resistance spreads - become exclusive to the Grineer Faction. Corrupted and Narmer variants would then get their own types (Corrupted Flesh/Armor, Veiled Flesh/Armor, whatever) with their own weakness/resistance spread.
Again, this is coming from my very layman's understanding of this game's complicated programming and how it's supposed to work. If anyone has corrections and suggestions on making the damage system more streamlined, toss it in a comment.
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Firstly, please keep this around. It's far more convenient for PC and Console players on-the-go to use a quickly navigated app that only takes up 300mb than downloading the entirety of the game just to access Orbiter functions.
Secondly, under the Mods section in both the Codex and Inventory, could you add a separate tab for specifically Conclave Mods? I'd rather not have those cluttering my Codex and Inventory when I can't tell which is which (the mod pictures in the app don't show the Conclave symbol when viewing a Conclave Mod).
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2 hours ago, RyllusPurple said:
I've always thought Thermia Fractures itself wasn't the problem, but rather Orb Vallis content structure. Bounties only visit two? of the places toroids drop. Both of the orbs never interfere with bounties or thermia, there isn't any dynamic to their patrol. POE bounties go every everywhere in comparison. Eidolons wander the whole map and can crash the party on a bounty rarely. There are a whole lot of locations on Orb Vallis with nothing going on but random patrols. POE has ghoul grave yards, vomvalyst patrols, random tusk dargyn patrols and scouting parties, and even a Tusk Ogma bomb drop. Then there is the actual fractures themselves not affecting enemies in the area. There isn't any consequence to having this stuff spew out of the ground. And then the actual rewards for thermia fractures being one off. "We got you a laser beam tenno." Because fractures rarely take place near places where toroid enemies drop, this is also a problem. The solaris never reward you with those.
After getting all the rewards from the Thermia Fractures themselves (Buried Debts Sigil & Emblem, 4 of the Amalgam Mods, and an Opticor Vandal with weapon slot and pre-loaded potato), the only reason to do them is to grind Diluted Thermia to replay the Exploiter Orb Assassination. And the Blue Spider-Mama has rather common mods, the Hildrin pieces, a guarenteed Lazulite Toroid (which you only need six of to build Hildrin), two Ephemera, some Vallis resources, an Articula, and a Captura scene. Once you have all that, the only reason to grind her is for VS Standing; and even then it's probably easier to just use Narmer Isoplasts for that.
In many ways, Thermia is the same as Ghouls. There's really no reason to play the event again after you get everything. So both of those definitely need some kind of rework. Maybe OpSupply Standing?
And yes, Fortuna Bounties need to spread the missions out a bit more. You're always going to the same five spots, and never going out to the places where you could maybe get a Toroid (if one even decides to drop, that is).
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57 minutes ago, Aevire said:
Not everything half-baked and abandoned and old is worth a rework. Not all are as worth a rework as one another. K-drives are by design divisive. Making them more mandatory won't fix them unless you completely change how they work, which is a ton of dev time and wil upset the large minority of players who do enjoy them. There isn't a lot of benefit to reworking K-drives, as compared to Archwing. Archwing is the best and most important alternative movement system and its issues lie in level design and integration, not in the core design of the system itself. [DE] would be much better served addressing issues with that system and not spending dev time on Kaithes in open worlds or whatever.
Bro, I came up with an entire mission off the top of my head that gave K-Drives relevancy by leaning into their Arcade-like nature and made lore around why it's used in the mission and not Archwing. IDK what more you could ask of me.
Ain't said crap about Kaithes other than they were they're fine for Duviri and goofing off while Solo, but DoA when in pub. Ain't nobody talkin' about makin' Kaithes comparable to Archwing.1 hour ago, Aevire said:Blast is not good. Cold is not good. I don't trust the build opinions of anyone who suggests Toxin progenitor on the Kuva Ogris or Kuva Nukor. I don't think a damage type rebalance or severe trimming is necessary - if they just make it so cold procs increase crit damage and bosses ignore only the slow from cold but not the crit damage effect, it'd be good, and if they just added damage to Blast status, it'd be good. Impact and Puncture are also good statuses and don't need to be changed to slash. I think it's fine to have uneven statuses as long as they're all usable in enough content (and not just for gunCO or Profit Taker).
TheKengineer suggested Heat on Ogris and Magnetic Nukor. I forget why, I need to rewatch that vid.
I honestly can't remember when the last time I used Impact or Puncture was outside of it being baked into a weapon I was grinding. That's how irrelevant it feels to me.
And I honestly never understood CO. Like, I get what it does and I see the appeal of slapping something with a big number stick...but why would you kit yourself out to vomit all the procs when you can just focus on what's needed for a specific faction? I seriously don't get it.1 hour ago, Aevire said:Itzal is usable for pickup and mob collection, Amesha has good survivability, they just need to buff Elytron and Odonata to have relevant abilities. In terms of Archwing, I just want them to remove the existing Archwing-only nodes and replace them with, like, Assault variants where you actually use the Archwing, or missions where you salvage broken ships and you switch between parkour and Archwing freely, or Endless missions where instead of working like Corpus railjack where you do 2-4 minutes of RJ at the beginning and then do a normal defense or whatever forever, you do 2-4 minutes of RJ, do one round of defense or survival or whatever, do 2-4 minutes of RJ/archwing to the next ship, rinse, repeat, variety in gameplay and using the entire loadout the whole time. I agree with you that Empyrean and Archwing need more integration (and star chart in general - there should be some nodes shared both by proxima and normal starchart) and would love to see a Duviri-scale update including (Grineer Galleon?) tileset rework, Archwing and Railjack overhauls, general improvement to starchart drop tables etc. I'd love to see some gamemodes similar to Cascade which are fast-paced, high-skill, active, rewarding, and utilize the full loadout.
I feel like Itzal is a bit overrated when you can just nuke an entire field with Voidrig-mounted artillery, but I see why you'd wanna use it to grab pickups. Elytron and Odonata are truly relics of their time. Specifically, both their 1s and 4s are just bad. Elytron's 1 and 4 are literally the same thing except one is sticky with manual det, Odonata's 1 is just a worse Volt shield, and Odonata's 4 is often the opposite of what you want in Warframe (plus enemies are usually so scattered about that it's pointless to do). Now just give Amesha, Elytron, and Itzal Prime variants and we ballin'.
Okay, I can get behind what you're saying about Archwing and Railjack. And honestly, I agree. Especially with Corpus Proxima. Though I don't see it happening on the scale of Duviri unless they bring new enemy factions into the game.1 hour ago, Aevire said:Yeah. Fully agree with you. And just in general I think that "one big update, one echoes update, and then never touch that content again unless its grind is egregious and needs to be fixed" is a dev cycle which encourages the formation of content islands, like we see with the open worlds and especially Duviri. I would especially like to see them overhaul and improve Invasions, which have a lot of potential to be what you want to see with the Syndicates but more achievably and without locking you into those choices for months and months.
Like, I love that DE only wants to make fun new things, but at this point in development, that's irresponsible.
In all honesty, I don't want them to lock Relay Syndicate choices. I only presented that as an option to jive with the system's original intent of promoting trading. I want them to open them up and get rid of the arbitrary "you gotta trade to have everything" attitude with those 6 specifically because none of the others are like that and it's faster to grind them than you think; especially if you go on Scavenger Hunts when appropriate.
Invasions are something that I think could be altered too, but not by a lot. Just change the drop rate of the Vandal and Wraith parts and I'd be happy with that.1 hour ago, Aevire said:I don't agree with this. Gargoyle's Cry was great, everyone loves Plague Star, and if they improved the drop tables and clarity of gameplay for Thermia and Ghouls those would be similarly beloved. In general I think recurring events are a great way to time gate good rewards and hope they do more in the future.
Okay, if we're talking about recurring stuff like Plague Star, Thermia Fractures, Ghoul Purges, and the holiday stuff, that's a whole different ballgame. I would actually enjoy having more stuff like that so long as it was fun and rewarding to do every time it pops up.
If they add more stuff like Gargoyle's Cry, then they at least need to add a page in the Codex that talks about it if it ever becomes relevant to the main story. I'm all for more Story inclusion so long as people who missed out on it the first time can still experience it in some way.1 hour ago, Aevire said:OpLink's problems are not the fault of "8 man mega-missions". The reason Scarlet Spear sucked is because there is no communication or interaction between you and your other squad except for negatively. You can't make the other team's job easier. The only time you even think about the other squad in that event is when they're slower than you, which is frustrating, or when you're slower than them, which is frustrating for them, so the gamemode feels bad unless both teams are precisely as fast as one another. If OpLink missions were less "I have to wait for you to do objective A before I can do objective B" and more "if you do good we get a buff or improvement to our ease of playing and vice versa" so that interaction with the other squad was positive it'd be a much more liked mechanic. Squad Link also isn't an actual 8 man mega mission. I do think it'd be worth making the actual tech to let you have an 8 man squad - or two 4 man squads, although hosting would possibly be wonky - for an actual return of Trials, which were 8-man squads, but it's not really accurate to say that Scarlet Spear was the same sort of design or experience as Trials.
That's the only thing I have reference for, as I was not around in the before-times. What you suggest sounds like it'd be a blast for pre-con squads. But, in all honesty, Warframe can have a hard enough time with only four people in a mission some days. If we double that, everyone would likely crash. Unless DE did extensive R&D on the back-end hosting problems they've had for years and/or allowed us to choose a regional server to inhabit (only NA, only OPAC, only Europe, only Asia). But that second option doesn't seem like something they'd do unless it was the only option forward; given how they hyped up Cross-save, Cross-play, and Mobile. They don't feel like the types that enjoy segregating their playerbase.
1 hour ago, Aevire said:If you don't lock yourself to an ally pair, you lose 30% or more of your standing per day. That is a fair tradeoff. Removing that mechanic hardly seems worth it. I think that Relay Syndicates, as a system, are pretty good and have held up pretty well over time. It's a system that gives you a ton of freedom about how to approach it, and it's rewarding to master. Seems great to me.
I only feel so strongly about it because it feels like an exercise in tedium, and I had just maxed out Hexis/Suda/Merridian when the faction-styled emotes and armors dropped; so salt is coloring my view on that a bit. But I have always firmly believed that it stands out in the wrong way unless you have at least 2 buddies to work with.
1 hour ago, Aevire said:For Cred, which is how it should be. They're in the same pool as the other weapon augments. The wiki doesn't show them as being available but it is wrong.
The wiki is showing Wild Frenzy (Grakata augment from Saturn Six) as part of the evergreen Cred rewards, but that's the only one on there so I thought it was a fluke.
And I think DE would be open to allowing people to play a Quest-like version of the narrative waves (TWoSS, Emissary, Glassmaker) in order to add those unique cosmetics to an individual client's evergreen pool. It'd both make new players earn those rewards and allow the devs to keep making new things.1 hour ago, Aevire said:Yeah, or event rewards. But there's nothing that says Baro has to be the only place that can have Tennocon or Twitch Drop or event exclusives. He's just the place that's been most convenient to add them to, but it makes his offerings bloated and discourages players from doing content that isn't fissures. I think if one was going to move Gotva Prime and Baro relics to Varzia they'd have to make them on a special rotation which seems complicated given she already has one, but it would be better overall. I would much rather see Ignis Wraith et al moved to Invasions 3.0 or somewhere where their parts can be valuable even after their farm than to put them in Clans. (My ideal Invasions rework would be a weekly track like the Circuit, but which doesn't reset, which rewards the entire weapon along the track and requires more than just three missions).
Darvo needs to be an actual vendor. Put pity systems for some of the problematic farms in the game into Darvo, and maybe give him a weekly rotation of a booster/potato bp/built forma which you can buy for miscellaneous semi-valuables.
That Invasion 3.0 idea actually sounds cool.
There's this one Mod that I try to get every time I see a Corrupted Ancient, and I never get it. I've been hunting it so long that I've even forgotten what it is I was looking for to begin with. Maybe Darvo, for a payment of mats and a "crew" of Specters, could hunt down specific gold-or-lower mods that people have a hard time finding. Come back in a week and he's got it ready for you.1 hour ago, Aevire said:Again, strongly agree with you. Ice Planet just does not hold up. Grineer Forest needs an overhaul. The Grineer stuff has held up shockingly well due to having the best art direction in the game, with its only runner-up being the Sentient Ship tileset, and debatably same with the Void tileset, but Infested Ship and Orokin Derelict are just ugly. Given that Infested Ship and Grineer Galleon are space tilesets it'd be nice if their overhauls coincide with the Archwing and Railjack overhauls, like with Corpus Ship and Corpus Railjack.
The Grineer do seem to have the most consistent art direction in the entire game. I think I could accept a GrinForest rework if it came with separate day and night nodes or synced it's day/night to Cetus'. And so long as the Silver Grove was still available. Maybe make that an independent node like Iron Wake? Just a place to harvest the plants and fight the bosses?
1 hour ago, Aevire said:Just don't think this is worth it. Quests take the most dev time for the least amount of content. While I do think that the early and mid starchart progression could use more quests as a throughline (even proper cinematic ones) to keep players engaged, I don't think everything needs to be a Quest and I definitely do not think that the majority of Warframe's story or worldbuilding or gameplay should be told through Quests. It's not super important that everyone knows what happened in Gradivus through a quest instead of just the interested people can find a Codex entry or whatever about it. I'd rather see maybe one or two big overarching and significant Quests which guide players from Mars to the Natah quest than anything involving LoR or JV being turned into content I'm going to only play once and never think about again.
The only reason I suggest that is because a lot of the modern game's lore was built on the backs of story-based events. Look at Alad V's entire storyline as just one example. Not all of this needs to be quests, of course. Stuff as simple as Fusion MOA or Artifact Defense could just be Codex entries. But all the stuff revolving around Alad could be quests, Pacifism Defect could easily be a Steel Meridian quest similar to Grove/Gambit/Anthem. Maybe stuff like Ambulas Reborn could be a "planetary sub-plot", where the first time you visit a Pluto node, you essentially witness a micro-version of the event that culminates in the boss fight at the end. Stuff like that would make the ordinary gameplay so much cooler and give newbies so many good memories.
1 hour ago, Aevire said:They could get 8-man missions to work before Scarlet Spear, which again wasn't really 8-man missions. It seems like Squad Link was originally intended to be used for a Fortuna-focused "battle of endor" Trial, presumably using the third Orb, where shields would be disabled and so on, but without a dedicated chat between linked squads and with game design that only emphasizes the link in a negative way it never happened. That does remind me that they made an entire cutscene for jumping from the Orb Vallis to Venus Proxima, which I think they put too much time into not to use. If they just ditched the Star Wars reference they could make an excellent four-man endgame raid like how they want Deep Archimedea to be that, with the first and/or second stages on the Vallis and then a jump to Railjack. If they did bring back the 8-man squads or figured out how to better link two 4-man squads it'd be cool if they added a Vallis raid where the first stage on the Vallis is together, then one of the squads takes RJ to space to do whatever they're going to do there, and then either the other squad also leaves for space after killing the Orb for whatever final space bossfight the raid will have (in my opinion the only way to have a proper raid boss in Warframe where damage doesn't need to be limited artificially and time-to-kill is well above a minute would be to do so in a system like RJ, even Operator can hit insane damage numbers) or the ship is shot down and crashes for a final bossfight with the third Orb. But again, the tech they'd need here is the tech they had originally for Trials' 8-man squads, although maybe they'd be able to use squad link for the RJ splits.
I mean, if they just worked on it more and maybe made better communication between the two squads, I could see the original intent of OpLink being used for a rare variant of the Fomorian and Razorback events, maybe with higher chances at getting the rarer drops from those missions. Would certainly make them more fun than grinding out the dadgum keys.
I just looked at the Devstream 177 notes. And this new Deep Archimedea sounds a bit like a game mode suggestion I've been cooking in my head for the last couple of days. Basically, once you complete a planet, you can enter a gauntlet that goes from the lowest level node to the highest level node culminating in that planet's boss fight; and if it has an OW area, you get a special Bounty variant that takes you through one of each Bounty objective (scaled to the rest of the planet). Still needs time to cook though, I gotta think of good rewards.2 hours ago, Aevire said:Anyway, generally agree with you that the focus should be on overhauling and revamping existing content. I think I would much rather see them improve the replayable gameplay than adding Quests, and I think we have contention on what their priorities should be, but agree with you strongly about a necessary Archwing and Railjack rework.
Honestly, because I'm such a worldbuilding nerd, most of my focus is on the cool lore they dropped in one-time-events and never brought back in any way. That's the most egregious thing they've ever done, imho. Other than that, I just want things to feel like they fit together nicely and don't result in a grind that grinds your soul instead of your gear. A newbie has to hit Cetus before Strata, so the Relay Syndicates being how they are will likely throw them way off (disregarding my own salt and lore-based reasons for wanting that changed). Archwing and Railjack are awesome ideas but not implemented in an intuitive way that jives with the flow of on-foot missions (and the Railjack guns really don't need Valance fusion; Kuva and Tenet weapons are enough). K-Drive is a fun minigame but that's about it, and it could be changed to at least allow buff and debuff abilities to be used if available on a Warframe; if not give each board/piece it's own ability. Duviri being its own thing is fine because it is literally its own thing not connected to the Star Chart in any way. Having the ability to queue missions together would be a great thing to cut down grind times if you don't want to do endless missions. Stuff like that.
Preserving their legacy for the future and player convenience. At the end of the day, that's all I want.
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3 hours ago, Xylia said:
One thing I will say, is that at least they stopped with One-Time Quests.
Remember the Fusion MOA quest? Or the Gradivus Dilemma? Or that quest where Frohd Bek enlisted you to go fight Alad V (some of the coolest voice lines in the game are the things Frohd Bek says to Alad, lol).
I remember them. Vaguely.
I will never see them again, because they are gone. Forever.
At least they stopped doing that.
That's what these two segments address:
On 2024-02-25 at 5:07 PM, Gamer_Auto said:- Events - Much of the lore from the game's early days was given during limited time events and Three Nightwave Stories that have never returned. While yes, they were primarily a way to introduce new game features, I feel as though many of these should be reworked and added to the modern Quest system; especially given that Alad V, who becomes an important part of the story, had most of his lore formed by these events. Plus, having the game dynamically change as a new player advances through the content in the order it was introduced would be a great experience for those coming in 11 years after the fact; and it'd give the lore writers a chance to make sure everything fits and won't be contradicted by future updates. The Nightwave quests could easily be obtained by an item or blueprint in the Misc tab; and completing those quests can unlock a "previous reward" store to buy/earn old rewards related to those quests.
- Trials - There used to be an 8-player super-mission type called Trials, and there were only two of them: The Law of Retribution and The Jordas Verdict. Law of Retribution was a followup to Operation: Eyes of Blight, which introduced Fomorian Sabotage, and Jordas Verdict was a followup to The Jordas Precept quest. LoR can be easily rewritten into a quest chain. After The Archwing, make Eyes of Blight an introduction quest to the Fomorian Sabotage mission, which then leads into a quest version of TLoR to introduce the Vey Hek assassination node; and could even reward Hydroid's Main Blueprint for mission completion. JV could easily be rewritten into a quest that introduces the Infestation to both the Archwing and Railjack game modes.
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1 hour ago, Aevire said:
Your statements about how the “only” good damage types are corrosive heat viral and slash are definitely just empirically not correct - first of all current brain dead meta is toxin slash to bypass shields and armor, and second of all electricity is very significant for melee influence (elec/gas) reasons, for murmur (best damage type against them) reasons, and for DPS reasons for a good deal of weapons. I think that it is more accurate to say that cold, magnetic, radiation, and arguably gas are just weak right now due to a lack of support and usability in content, and while I would love to see a damage pass where these are reviewed and brought more in line with each other there’ll always be people who insist that viral and slash are the only damage types in the game because they saw a content creator say that and don’t know enough about the game to see how that isn’t true.
I honestly don't play enough in those areas where Coro/Heat/Vi/Sla aren't as viable. Mostly take my builds from TheKengineer, who mostly gears more for Steel Path Mot grinding. Radiation is often used for Corrupted and Eidolons, and Murmurs are super weak to it. I'd honestly say that Blast isn't as viable outside Condition Overload (which I never use because Lavos w/ Cedo is king imo). But overall, yes. The different damage types and their associated procs feel very uneven. It's just another example of this game's bloat. IPS could very easily be changed to just "Physical - Procs deal Bleed Damage". Not sure about HCET and Advanced Elements.
2 hours ago, Aevire said:I strongly agree with you that Archwing needs a significant overhaul (maybe concurrent with a Grineer Galleon tileset rework? DE pls?) and that it shouldn’t be a content island - same with Railjack, which only interfaces with the Lich gamemode for one mission at the end, and otherwise is entirely its own thing.
The Archwing Equipment items themselves could likely use another pass (unless it's been patched out, a full squad of Amesha with certain mod setups is immortal and never runs out of energy). Where Archwing needs the most work is more mission nodes, more mission types, and better integration with either Main Star Chart or Empyrean Star Chart; and I feel it'd be better to bundle all the Space missions together in one package.
Railjack needs its own HCET looked at, as it's not really viable to gear for their procs (last I checked). Railjack also needs a better mix of mission types, and a proper Assassination (Jordas Vs Cy?). Corpus Proxima needs to stop pretending to be Main Star Chart. And Orphix nodes REQUIRE a new map. Granum Ship tiles just do not work the way DE thought they would.2 hours ago, Aevire said:I think those two overhauls are huge projects that [DE] should focus on instead of Kahl 2, or whatever else they’re going to try and make us replay Warframe 1999 content with.
My brother in the Void, that's the point of this thread. DE needs to drag themselves away from the next shiny new thing after 1999 and focus on making the last 11 years worth of content jive with the modern direction of the game.
2 hours ago, Aevire said:K-Drives and Kaithes are movement options that make a little sense for their content islands but I think don’t need to be major or significant role-players in the rest of the game given that Archwing does everything they do but better and more satisfyingly.
I actually just made a post replying to someone else about that very topic. It's geared for K-Drives, because Kaithes are fine for their intended use in Duviri. And while I appreciate the ability to summon them in the other OWs, it's just not needed unless you're goofing off by yourself.
2 hours ago, Aevire said:I agree with you that Events should have more of a focus - I really didn’t like how they gave up on Nightwave being this sort of story pack and content update introduction all in one, especially with Arlo which introduced a new tile and boss instead of just being its own little content island (although the Nihil boss fight is still really cool). Gargoyle’s Cry was a step in the right direction and I hope we see more events more frequently.
I think you vastly misunderstood what I was saying there.
Events don't need to be more of a focus. If anything, they need to be less of a focus. Past events need to be mechanically reworked and narratively rewritten into Quests that jive with the current vision. Any future events also need to be the same (their rewards depending on what the community unlocks). Because of the Quest system, telling story exclusively through one-time events is a thing of the past (and was arguably outdated even by 2013 standards).2 hours ago, Aevire said:Trials as they existed were spaghetti code to the spaghetti code. I think that they should be brought back because they’re simultaneously a big story development (LoR killed Vay Hek and JV killed Jordas Golem, and were also significant worldbuilding that teased the Infestation’s role in Warframes and the reality of the Queens) and replayable interesting endgame content which brings people back every day or week without being grating and overbearing. I hope to see new Trials or an equivalent and hopefully the Deep Archimedea are the on-ramp to that and not the closest we’re going to get for the next 5 years.
While I would love to try and play an 8-man mega-mission, I don't think that'll happen ever. DE tried to make Scarlet Spear that and...yeah...it just didn't work out. It's why OpLink hasn't been a thing since DE talked about it when Railjack was first shown off.
Like events, I would rather see LoR and JV be reworked and rewritten into Quests. I even had a whole spiel about how to make it cool.2 hours ago, Aevire said:The relay syndicates are fine. They should definitely get more new content than just augments every year - I’d especially love to see syndicate Arch-weapons or Arcanes, if we can’t ever see new syndicate normal weapons - and being able to “Max” the system at extremely low efficiency isn’t exactly a game breaking oversight.
I and 14 other Syndicates have to vehemently disagree with this sentiment. In the year 2024,11 years into the game's life, there is absolutely no reason to have the Relay Syndicates have that fluctuation mechanic. Either lock us to an ally pair so we have incentive to trade, or open them all up so they match the other 14 Syndicates int he game. It's really not that hard of a concept to grasp.
And yes, they do need more than just new cosmetics and Augments.2 hours ago, Aevire said:Nightwave having one time cosmetics is fine, and the old weapon augments from wave 1 of the augments are now in permanent nightwave rotation so we can expect the same to happen to the others going forward.
For earning, or for Cred? There's a distinct difference.
2 hours ago, Aevire said:I do think in general Warframe has a problem with vendors - Baro has an increasingly vast selection of items every two weeks while every other vendor still has an extremely limited selection - and in the future it’d be nice if some of the weight Baro is bearing for all of these items and cosmetics were off-loaded onto other vendors. He already sells primed mods and prisma weapons, how about the steel meridian gets the vastilok like Perrin sequence gets the tenet melees and the baro-only dual stats are finally added to a normal drop table that isn’t torture to farm? How about we put the Baro wraith and vandal weapons back into events or invasions so they aren’t a non-system so fast?
Baro's are only on Baro because they're old "Watch TennoCon for X amount of minutes" rewards. Otherwise, they could easily be Dojo additions.
Many of Baro's Prime stock could be moved to Varzia, as I mentioned.
Darvo just needs any sort of use.2 hours ago, Aevire said:in general I agree with you that [DE] doesn’t spend enough dev time on improving, revamping, and making worthwhile old content, but I think the solution is maybe to take that project one thing at a time. Damage is in a fine place that allows for build diversity as long as you’re not a content creator. Nightwave is fine as a free battle pass. Conclave is fine to leave how it is. I think they should focus on tileset overhauls, improving old shops and systems, and eventually a large Archwing and Railjack rework that hopefully integrates them more into the game as a whole. Bringing back trials would be nice and probably convenient for that last part if the code for deep Archimedea and op links play nice with each other or the 8 man squad tech is salvageable but ultimately shouldn’t be the focus of their improvements until they’ve at least improved the in game communication and feel of star chart progression significantly.
I'm not saying it should all be done at once. I'm saying it should be the priority to work on cutting the fat and streamlining what's left before adding more bloat.
Damage types either need a rebalance or a severe trimming (and the entire modding system is so asinine that it also needs a major overhaul to simplify it).
Nightwave as a free battlepass is fine, but it needs to be faster about adding old content into the Cred Offerings.
Conclave is a ghost town unless you go into the dedicated servers. It needs to be either cut, severely overhauled into something PvE, or given rewards that are worth grinding it out.
Tile set overhauls are also needed. I'm tired of seeing Corpus units in the Grineer Asteroid tile set every time Phorid shows up on one of their planets. Kuva Fortress needs a revamp to make it less claustrophobia triggering and more friendly to navigate (even in-universe, it doesn't make sense to have the thing be like a maze).
Archwing and Railjack need massive overhauls to missions, better integration with the main game or with each other, and more map hubs and enemy factions.
Trials probably shouldn't come back in their original form. If they couldn't get 8-man missions to work back during Scarlet Spear, I highly doubt they'll ever make it work. Game communication does need a boost, though. I'll agree there.2 hours ago, Aevire said:I think it’s fine to have some things that are misses for people.
What does this even mean? I was talking about how lots of stuff just feels half-baked and abandoned and old and in desperate need of rework.
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58 minutes ago, Xylia said:
Easier said than done.
For example, K-Drives.
Can't remove them because they are integral to the Yareli questline, and there are probably people that enjoy playing Olli Olli or whatever that game was called. Not my thing, but some people enjoy it I guess?
And so if you wanna update it, then what? What would you do to make them compete with Archwings?
I wouldn't make them compete with Archwing. We already have the teleport nodes, so the point is moot. K-Drives can get you to the objective just as well as Wings now. Hek, even the Mechs can get places quickly with the tele-nodes.
What I would do is give them their own mission node, or their own "cinematic" bounty mission based on what content we already have: Arcade-like races, and limited combat. Example:
"Alright, Sparky. There's a (Corpus/Narmer) transport convoy en route (from/past) Fortuna to a cargo ship. We need you to intercept them and (objective here; hijack, destroy, hack for "tracking" purposes, etc.). Problem is, they're used to you swoopin' in on those fancy wings ya got, so they've got some heavy flak; and you don't have time to stomp around in that big rig. Only way to catch up is by K-Drive. Get in, (complete objective), and hightail it outta there. My boys have found a spot for your blue/red Cephalon friend to pick you up. Good luck, Sparky."
Translation: Enemy Convoy is heading to Hostile Extraction. Target is heavily protected by anti-air defenses, rendering Archwing useless, and utilizing the Railjack is overkill and too conspicuous. Enemy Convoy is also moving fast enough that Necramechs will be completely unable to keep pace. Only way to catch up is to use the small, nimble K-Drive. Catch up, complete the mission, then move to Friendly Extraction.From there, you get a mission in three parts.
First part plays like a K-Drive race. You have to utilize your Board's boost mode and either pass through boost rings or perform tricks for a speed boost. I might even make it so this mission, as well as Races, automatically propel you forward, so you can spend more time on navigation and tricks rather than speed modulation; to really lean into that Arcade-style gameplay.
In the second part of the mission, you've caught up to the target and swap to combat mode. Sticking with the Arcade style, you only have to worry about dodging left and right and shooting back at enemies. Maybe even allow certain abilities like Excaliber's Radial Blind or Rhino's Roar to be used while in this mode. Once the enemies are clear, you jump on the objective, swapping back to normal gameplay for a bit as you complete the objective; be that Hijack, Sabotage, Spy, Mobile Defense, whatever.
In the final part, once you've completed the goal, you have to race to extraction, dodging both terrain and enemy fire, until your Landing Craft or Railjack (depending on progression) is able to pick you up while covering you (cameo of the Turret and Carpet Bomb Air Supports to entice newer players to find/buy their parent ships?).Rewards would include Standing for the three Fortuna Syndicates (SU, Ventkids, VS), possibly blueprints for a unique K-Drive, K-Drive Mods (Alternative source for same mods as Ventkid shop), and vary from there based on mission type, enemy level, and so on; with examples being Fortuna & Venus materials, Corpus/Narmer weapon blueprints, Debt-Bonds/Toroids/Narmer Isoplasts, and so on.
This mission would be mostly geared towards a Solo player, but given time and input, I could probably think up ways for a full squad to play. Maybe two people take up anti-air turrets while the other two do whatever it is the mission requires, and there are bonus rewards like Aya and Relics for shooting down certain numbers of enemy reinforcements.
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9 minutes ago, quxier said:2 hours ago, Gamer_Auto said:
I just. Want. Consistency. And you're starting to sound like you're trying to convince me to not want consistency.
Let me explain what "necessary" means. Via google:
Quoterequired to be done, achieved, or present; needed; essential.Food is necessary to live. Movies are not necessary. You can live without movies. It might be less "fun" but you can survive. That's why I mean option 2 is not necessary. It might nice.
I never once said it was necessary. I said it would make it consistent with everything else. Am I seriously not communicating anything to you here? Is this a me problem? Am I not typing English? Am I not using a keyboard correctly?
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18 minutes ago, Xylia said:
Warframe and its storied development, at least for the parts of it I was here for, always struck me as "Throw noodles at the wall and see which ones stick."
If it sticks, they'll use that.
If it doesn't, they'll just leave it laying on the floor and not bother picking it up.
Like, all the open world systems are basically copypasta, they all use the same systems for their standing, their vendors, etc. Those are noodles that stuck on the wall.
Archwing and Railjack are noodles that kinda-sorta stuck but fell onto the countertop. They were grabbed and thrown into the pot and used, but not really cared about. Every now and then they'll have you use one of these in a quest or something.
And then there's the noodles that fall on the floor and are left there, forgotten. Some of the one-time rewards, some of the other things in the game that nobody seems to care about anymore, like K-Drives.
The Kaithe is still important because it's the only means of Air Travel in Duviri, but that's a Duviri-specific thing, it feels like. It's way too slow to even think about asking us to use it outside of Duviri especially when we could instead use the Archwing.
That's my point. Why leave the stuff that didn't stick in the game and not do anything to make it better? If you aren't gonna use it, remove it. If you don't want to remove it, then make it something that works with the rest of the game.
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7 minutes ago, quxier said:1 hour ago, Gamer_Auto said:Expand8 hours ago, quxier said:19 hours ago, Gamer_Auto said:
By manipulating the game's calculations (explained on the Wiki page), you can be at max rank with Hexis, Suda, and Meridian, or at max rank with Loka, Sequence, and Veil. Even 4 if you really want to learn the balancing act.
I'm sorry. I don't meant to offend you. It's just sound realatevily hard but when I read about 6 syndicate your comment about "manipulating" sounds silly:
What else would you have me call it? Exploitation? Because that's what it is. We're exploiting a loophole in the mechanic to manipulate the game into doing something that probably wasn't intended.
No exploitation, just simple game. It's just you sound like you have done something "great" but other guys I've posted done so much more.
That's a problem with your perception, then. I'm under no illusion that I've done anything but the bare minimum.
9 minutes ago, quxier said:1 hour ago, Gamer_Auto said:ExpandWhat I am saying is that either:
1. DE needs to implement an admittedly draconian measure to preserve the intent of the mechanic (locking a player to one Syndicate and maybe that Synd's ally).
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2. DE needs to implement lore quests to properly introduce the 6 Relay Synds instead of the brief speeches their leaders give New Players; and a quest chain to do what should have been the goal of the Tenno all along: uniting their allies against their common enemies. Which not only would necessitate removing an outdated and pointless mechanic (when was the last time you traded Synd items and weren't just selling augments for plat?) and aid the immersion of the later quests involving Loka, Sequence, and Suda. Trust me, I AM FULLY AWARE OF HOW BASSACKWARDS IT IS TO BE MAX RANK WITH NEW LOKA AND THEN PLAY OCTAVIA'S ANTHEM LIKE SUDA HASN'T BEEN TRYING TO MERC YOU THIS WHOLE TIME (Thread is Spoiler Tagged, don't worry about it). While Immersion is part of it, we also need the game to flow together. Being the mortal enemy of a Syndicate you're helping in a quest does not jive with the actual gameplay. And doing it in a fun way by making early-game quests about uniting the 6 Relay Synds would both give newbies something cool to do, and give Veterans an explanation as to why the old mechanic is gone. And, because they're DE, I'm sure that they'd insta-max you if you've already been maxed with a Synd before.I don't think anything HAS to be done. It's not like 2nd wouldn't be nice but it's not necessary. And 1st is detrimental, so big no.
They've literally added "unnecessary" introduction quests for every other Syndicate. The New Strange (Simaris), Saya's Vigil (Ostrons), Mask of the Revenant (Quills), Vox Solaris (Solaris United, Ventkids, & Vox Solaris (faction)), Heart of Deimos (Entrati Family & Loid), Veilbreaker (Kahl's Garrison), Angels of the Zariman (Holdfasts), Whispers in the Walls (Cavia). None of those needed to be tied to a new Syndicate, yet they were anyway. Even non-intro quests. The Silver Grove, Octavia's Anthem, The Glast Gambit, Chains of Harrow, The Deadlock Protocol, The Waverider. None of these needed to be tied to Syndicates in any way, and yet they were.
I just. Want. Consistency. And you're starting to sound like you're trying to convince me to not want consistency. Which is it? Are we going to be consistent and make the game flow as smoothly as possible for the people joining an 11 year old game? Or are we going to leave it a patchwork mess of half-finished and abandoned content buried under each shiny new thing like DE's embarrassed of it?
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14 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:
.... so anytime they fix or update something it doesn't count?
Again, I'm not denying that there's old stuff that needs to be updated or ideas they had that they just flat out dropped - some of which many of us wish they'd pick back up, but at the same time why aren't you giving credit where credit is due? Hydroid? Inaros? Mag? Excal? They also updated the syndicate pledge system. The list of improvements is really long, I could go on. Yes these are all parts of the game that are more in people's focus, but can you blame them for prioritizing that stuff? Like I would 100% rather have a Chroma overhaul than a weak pass on conclave.
And why is the stug unlikely exactly? I mean I never in million years though I'd be using the kunai in high level content, but here we are.
It's not that it doesn't count, it's that people still use those things. Companions, Hydroid, Inaros, Mag, Excal, adding Incarnon to old weapons to make them more viable. What I'm talking about is stop adding new game modes to the game for a bit and focus on tightening up what we already have so there's a more consistent feel to the game. This thing's been going on for 11 years now, and there's a ton of bloat, a ton of old systems that could be streamlined, a ton of old lore that could be reworked and added back into the game, more Frame and Weapon reworks than one every six months.
It's not that I don't appreciate what's already been done. I'm saying that there's still a ton left to do and they need to pump the breaks on new content after 1999 comes out so they can devote more time and resources to tightening up the old content. ESPECIALLY NOW THAT THERE'S AN ENTIRE NEW PLAYERBASE COMING INTO THE GAME 11 YEARS INTO IT'S LIFESPAN.
And why Stug specifically?
18 hours ago, Gamer_Auto said:The Stug - I fully comprehend and understand that there needs to be lesser weapons at the start of the game so the more powerful stuff feels good to acquire, but the Stug is bad even by MR0 standards; let alone MR2. I don't expect it to carry me over five hours on Steel Path Mot, but it's not even viable for memeing. Either rework it to make it at least a viable meme weapon, or chuck it in the garbage. It has no place in the game otherwise.
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6 hours ago, quxier said:18 hours ago, Gamer_Auto said:
By manipulating the game's calculations (explained on the Wiki page), you can be at max rank with Hexis, Suda, and Meridian, or at max rank with Loka, Sequence, and Veil. Even 4 if you really want to learn the balancing act.
I'm sorry. I don't meant to offend you. It's just sound realatevily hard but when I read about 6 syndicate your comment about "manipulating" sounds silly:
What else would you have me call it? Exploitation? Because that's what it is. We're exploiting a loophole in the mechanic to manipulate the game into doing something that probably wasn't intended.
6 hours ago, quxier said:You need to ask WHY they are like this. They are meant for players to trade stuff they don't have BUT you have to work for it.
Other syndicates rely on slow standing gain and actively gaining standing. In Vox solaris you need to gain toroids (random loot) and defeat at least 1 Profit taker (was 3, 2 with boosters) to gain Crisma toroid (rank 5 requirement). Then you have mostly 10k standing arcanes to trade (21 to max). My team can take it in ~5 minutes at best and 10-15 at worst (I'm not that great either, probably) to get single Crisma Toroid. That's 6k standing. So per hour you get 24-72k. That's 2-7 arcanes. To max 1 arcane you would need 11-3 hours. The prices are like 100-200 afair. Not to mention all level up to get to rank 5.
What about relay syndicates? You pick 1 syndicate (it was wearable sygils that you can forget to wear, if you changed frame, I'm glad they changed it!). You gain standing by doing most of the mission (I think only duviri doesn't count). You don't need to do anything specific. Doing more syndicates means more work - they have to be "paid" according to their work.
Option 1 is bad. You are just timegating or locking players. It's not good. If players wants to earn something at some point - let them. Don't do silly stuff like Archon hunts.
Option 2 is for what? Immersion? Yeah, I can see that. It's still silly that e.g. *let's make it not precise to avoid spoilers* , doing something for Suda and next time she send DEATH, yeah, DEATH squad and says your are WASTE is just... degrading (or silly).
I am well aware of how the system works and fully experienced what it was like before their rework. I've been playing regularly since Fortuna and have 1,684 hours in the game. But even if you look at it as DE more than likely intended, Relay Synds are still exactly like Cetus, SU, Entrati Fam, Holdfasts, and Cavia. Run the gambit of missions, trade special items for Standing, use Standing to buy swag that gets more Standing. Repeat until the shop is cleared out. The only difference is trading for "enemy" items, which I think is just dumb because it's not that hard to max out the Relay Synds.
What I am saying is that either:
1. DE needs to implement an admittedly draconian measure to preserve the intent of the mechanic (locking a player to one Syndicate and maybe that Synd's ally).
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2. DE needs to implement lore quests to properly introduce the 6 Relay Synds instead of the brief speeches their leaders give New Players; and a quest chain to do what should have been the goal of the Tenno all along: uniting their allies against their common enemies. Which not only would necessitate removing an outdated and pointless mechanic (when was the last time you traded Synd items and weren't just selling augments for plat?) and aid the immersion of the later quests involving Loka, Sequence, and Suda. Trust me, I AM FULLY AWARE OF HOW BASSACKWARDS IT IS TO BE MAX RANK WITH NEW LOKA AND THEN PLAY OCTAVIA'S ANTHEM LIKE SUDA HASN'T BEEN TRYING TO MERC YOU THIS WHOLE TIME (Thread is Spoiler Tagged, don't worry about it). While Immersion is part of it, we also need the game to flow together. Being the mortal enemy of a Syndicate you're helping in a quest does not jive with the actual gameplay. And doing it in a fun way by making early-game quests about uniting the 6 Relay Synds would both give newbies something cool to do, and give Veterans an explanation as to why the old mechanic is gone. And, because they're DE, I'm sure that they'd insta-max you if you've already been maxed with a Synd before.27 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:While there's no denying DE is much more focused on the new things, I don't think it's quite fair to say they NEVER revisit previous content. They do, it's just a slow, slow burn compared to what we'd like. Like if you put together a list of all the QoL improvements we've got in the last year alone it would be pretty impressive. Like you bring up the Stug but dude, should we talk about the incarnon revolution in the same breath? Like wow. AMAZING arsenal uplift, and the stug might be in the next wave of that. And companions?!?!?
I'm not saying there's not dead content islands. (IDK how you left out Kahl lol), and I'm definitely a little salty that RJ and necramelee aren't being actively pursued, and I have an entire dream sequence involving WF pvp/pvpve, but I'm just saying any kind of post like this would do well to acknowledge the amazing improvements we've gotten recently too.
A lot of that is stuff that jives with the modern game, though. Incarnons are a modern thing, and the original Incarnon weapons proved popular enough that DE started expanding in a way that made sense from a longevity standpoint. The Companion fix is just doing what they should have done when Companions were first introduced; but it's not like people never use Companions like they never use K-Drive. And I highly doubt Stug will get an Incarnon. That's wishful thinking, even by this thread's standards.
What this thread is talking about is the stuff that DE put in and never iterated on again. Like Kahl, and K-Drives, and Railjack, and Relay Syndicates, etc. The stuff that obviously should have been given a few more iterations, but got left to gather dust because of "the shiny new thing".
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22 minutes ago, (PSN)Smooth_76 said:
It's not that it's a bad Idea it's simply YOU don't like it.
No, I admit it would be awesome to see. It's just impractical, would just be more Mastery Fodder, and would more than likely end up as a one-off gimmick weapon because Sentinels fill the same role and are superior because you don't have to manually aim a Sentinel.
Look, the weapon you propose would likely be a Secondary, because we already have full-arm cannons in the Primary slot. Let's look at other Secondary weapons. Look at how many of them ended up as 4 or 5 Riven disposition because the gimmick doesn't outweigh the drawbacks. Like Twin Rogga! It's TWIN FLINTLOCK SHOTGUN PISTOLS! That's COOL! And if there were good cosmetics for them, I'm sure some people would actually use it! Or the Grimoire! It's a magic tome that shoots lightning and even has it's own Mod Set! THAT'S COOL! But because of the mod set, it likely won't see much use after people are done grinding it for Mastery fodder; especially now that the Canticle mods can't be used with each other.
But then you have Epitaph and the Kuva and Tenet weapons. Those are actually worthwhile. What would your proposed shoulder gun do that Sentinels, Epitaph, and Lich System weapons can't? That's what I'm trying to get across here. We're long past the days where a weapon can get by on just looking cool. It has to either be on par with the meta, or be a useful newbie weapon. Otherwise it'll be a grind 'n' toss weapon.
Another example: the Ghoul Saw. People BEGGED DE to release it as a player weapon! It looked so cool in the enemy's hands! And now it's sitting at a 4 Disposition because it's a bad weapon. 58% Slash, above-average Status Chance, and perfect follow-through damage; but low crit, abysmal range, and a sluggish combo.
So I ask one more time: what does the Yautja Plasmacaster offer to Warframe other than just looking cool?
Thoughts about Maws, the Orowyrm and the idea of more snakes in warframe
in General Discussion
Posted
IDK. Maybe this could be a minigame added to the Plains, Vallis, & Drift to make Ore/Gem farming easier. But as something to take the Necramech slot? Not sure that could work.
Honestly, I just want to fight the Orowyrm in my Railjack as was teased when Railjack first came out.
Lavos has some snake themes, but a Frame dedicated to the idea might happen one day. We've already got Frames centered around summoning other animals.