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MrFrog9

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  1. i usually try not to engage in these threads bc to be blunt the people in it aren't usually very intelligent but this seems well-reasoned enough to address "no applicability" "no output" these are extreme exaggerations so you've already undermined your point before you've finished your first sentence, but you dont seem like a particularly stupid person at a glance so i'll just assume you meant "not enough applicability" and "not enough output" which is a fair assessment comparing aquablades' damage against weapon damage is actually nonsensical because they don't actually directly compete with each other beyond aquablades's extremely short initial casting time; aquablades being up does not detract from wielding your weapons at all. they apply 525 true damage/second/second up to a cap of 3150 true damage/second after 6 seconds of continuous application (disclaimer: if you are taking more than 6 seconds to kill something in warframe something imo is seriously wrong) which certainly can't match the output of weapons, but since there is no opportunity cost shared between them that's IMO not a valid comparison. a more appropriate comparison would probably be to compare aquablades with another damage/damage-enhancing ability like Roar or Thermal Sunder. you're not going solo aquablades sortie lephantis anytime soon but that's fine in my opinion because there is nearly no circumstance in which you have to rely on aquablades, just by itself, to kill something, and since the bulk of the damage they do ignores armour scaling entirely they expedite weapon kills by roughly the same factor regardless of difficulty level i will acknlowedge that when using very strong weapons there is probably a pretty significant level gap where aquablades cant kill by themselves but your weapons kill foes instantly or close to instantly so they also aren't helping you kill things any more easily note: i also said that id be fine with aquablades having its damage buffed, and also while i don't think it having range scaling would be very conducive to yareli's gameplay theme i also acknowledge that its base range is about 4 meters so even at the maximum possible range of 11.2 meters it wouldn't really be catastrophic E: Actually after running the Actual Numbers, I have found that my Prisma Gorgon @ Hunter's Munitions inflicts about 7200 bleed damage/second/second which exceeds Aquablades's damage by a factor of 14, and Prisma Gorgon isn't even that great of a weapon, so I'd say that Aquablades overall definitely needs a damage buff. dont math with your feels, kids
  2. I've had Yareli for a few days now, forma'd her once (probably not any more because I'd need 2 forma more at minimum to fit any of the mods I'd like to on her and at that point I'd really rather just potato her lol). These are my impressions. They're generally positive, which is why a large proportion of the following text is negative (obviously). Observations/Comments: Yareli's passive can be gamed a bit; it doesn't care if you're actually moving as long as you're holding a movement key, and there's a very brief grace period after releasing a movement key, so you can maintain it by just tapping a key rapidly without gaining any speed or by just walking backwards into a wall. Merulina expands Yareli's effective HP greatly, setting it to the lower of [Yareli's EHP] + [Merulina's HP] and [Yareli's HP] * 4. It also protects from harmful DoT effects. Because of this, I usually only need Fast Deflection for survivability even at endgame levels, since it means a max-rank Yareli usually has an effective maximum shield of 1800 (2400 counting the global damage resistance), which is on par with Hildryn! You gain a period of full invulnerability when dismounting Merulina manually, which seems to be more than enough to re-mount her or run for cover. I was initially frustrated by Merulina's apparent weakness to Arson Eximi, but I think dismounting her manually to evade the wave then re-mounting her is reasonable counterplay if a bit of an energy sink and also somewhat clunky. Alternatively, you can just give her mods to resist knockdown because it's not like there's much else that she cares about (more on that later). Merulina's physics might need some work. As I noted before, she needs a fair amount of space to maneuver, especially because of her large collision box, and she is quite unforgiving to work with; colliding with an obstacle even obliquely costs quite a lot of speed. She interacts strangely with some objects, especially when grinding, but this is probably to be expected when interacting with 8-year-old map geometry in a way that it could not possibly have been designed for (I seriously doubt when you were designing the Orokin Void ages ago that the possibilty of players someday grinding on the guardrails with a hoverboard even crossed anyone's mind). I don't find Merulina faster than walking; if anything it takes me longer to move through missions with her because of how much time I waste crashing into things, or moving very slowly so as to avoid crashing into things. Some part of this is absolutely just lack of practice, since Merulina controls almost completely differently from a Warframe, but I suspect that even if maneuvered perfectly she will struggle to keep up with pedestrians in cluttered environments, which is inconvenient since Yareli needs to be on her for survival. Merulina cannot be nullified when active. While I personally embrace this new age of abilities that just straight-up ignore the most obnoxious enemy mechanic in the entire game (Sevagoth's Shadow similarly is unfazed by entering nullie bubbles), I question if this is intentional. Aquablades's damage holds up much better than I initially assumed it would, but it does seem to drop off a bit at about level 70ish. Fortunately, that is also about the range at which keeping enemies continuously stunlocked becomes very very useful, and since it requires little to no commitment after being activated it's still a nice enough source of extra damage. Riptide is of seriously questionable value. Even with 10 enemies captured, its base DPS (~15k damage for a 2-second long animation which cannot be sped up) is not appreciably higher than that of a given weapon (especially given Yareli's passive), nor can it apply helpful status effects, although it does have the benefit of a fairly-large AoE. It is hampered severely by a fairly-strict LoS check that makes capturing large numbers of enemies quite unreliable. To be clear, it ABSOLUTELY SHOULD have an LoS check given how spammable it is and how wide it can potentially reach, but either the check needs to be loosened slightly or the ability's numbers/functionality need to be rebalanced to account for the reality of using it. Sucking up enemies with it is inherently fun but I usually don't feel like the ability helps much when I use it. It does mediocre damage, isn't great for gathering foes because of how it scatters them around wildly, and usually doesn't knock down enemies for long enough to turn around a bad situation. I find that Yareli's energy consumption is nicely low-maintenance; I'm a shameless ability spammer who runs Fleeting Expertise, Zenurik Focus, and Energy Siphon on literally everything, because I like to just mash out the pretty ninja magic and not worry about the game's annoying energy system, but I feel comfortable running Corrosive Projection instead on Yareli and will probably try swapping to Madurai for a bit more oomph once I've ranked it more. Sea Snares is cheap to cast, Merulina is cheap AND lasts practically forever, and Aquablades has a very long duration. Riptide is quite expensive, but it costs nothing if I never use it in the first place *taps forehead* Sea Snares can take a while to actually reach enemies even at the base range, making it less reliable for CC since enemies can often fire several shots at you in the time it takes to connect. I suspect this would be much less glaring if Riptide was more readily useful as a panic button to quickly kill/disable large swathes of enemies. Directly following off of the above: modding Yareli for Range is fairly pointless at the moment, because its benefit to Sea Snares is of dubious value, Merulina and Aquablades don't care about range at all, and Riptide which seems to be intended as the main beneficiary of range is very underwhelming as a whole. Yareli is the first Warframe since, I believe, Baruuk to not have any way to natively debuff enemy defenses (since Revenant if you count Baruuk technically being able to apply status procs with Desert Wind) (note: my grasp of frame release dates pre-2019 is not precise at all). Sevagoth curses with a damage multiplier, Lavos scatters puddles of any status of his choosing across the map, Xaku strips armour, Protea deals Heat procs, Grendel digests armour, Gauss deals Heat and can directly strip armour, Wisp deals Heat and Corrosive procs, Hildryn strips both armour and shields. I actually think this is a GOOD thing since every single frame having the same basic MO for dealing with Warframe's ludicrous armour scaling is stale, but it may provide insight as to why her damage abilities feel so lackluster -- she's climbing the same mountain with fewer tools. When playing Yareli, I typically have Aquablades up as much as possible for supplemental damage and defense, and similarly am on Merulina as much as is absolutely practical simply for the massive EHP buffer. I use Sea Snares to lock down out crowds of dangerous enemies, or to pick off trash so I don't have to bother aiming at them. If I see a big group of enemies, I sometimes instinctively hit Riptide just because it's an inherently fun ability, but I'm usually underwhelmed with the actual results. I don't generally have much trouble staying alive but large swarms of enemies can be dangerous due to how Yareli relies on guns and especially headshots to deal damage effectively. Things I like: I cannot stress this enough: Yareli can shred across Grineer ships like an adorable Tony Hawk. That is F***ing AWESOME. I would be willing to put up with much, much worse design just for that. Yareli's passive is very fun. It's motivated me to look deeper into secondary weapons when I'd mostly just ignored them before, and I like being rewarded for moving around in a game about parkour space ninjas (imagine). It's just an inherently good idea. I say this every time, but: Yareli looks amazing, and sounds amazing. I love Merulina's little coos, I love the water effects, I love her animations, I love how unique and beautiful Yareli looks and all the little details in her design, like the subtle heart shapes in her veil. The artist who created her initial artwork and the animators, modellers, etc. who brought their drawing to life ingame ought to feel very, very proud. I really cannot praise this game's art and sound team enough. Sea Snares feels nice to use. I'm probably biased because of the pretty water bubble effects, but I like scattering the bubbles around while riding Merulina. They're cheap and fast to cast, and their homing makes them very convenient for picking off weak enemies. It's satisfying to let out a salvo of bubbles rapid-fire to disable a crowd of dangerous enemies, and the way the enemies float upwards sets up headshots which dovetails well with Yareli's passive. Merulina is very fun to ride around on even if she's dubiously-practical as transportation in normal missions. Aquablades's low range encourages you to move around to hit enemies with it, and its ability to continuously stunlock all nearby enemies complements Sea Snares's ability to disable foes at range; meanwhile, enemies opened up with Sea Snares are easy pickings to approach and buzzsaw while popping headshots. The damage isn't too shabby, especially because it leaves you free to apply Viral procs with your weapons. It's also quite convenient to saw through weak enemies quickly while riding Merulina. Riptide, as much as I criticise it functionally, is hypnotically beautiful to watch, which is probably why I keep using it despite it being bad. The swirling mist effects, water currents, and shiny glowies are a treat to look at, and it really makes me wish the ability was better. I like the kinetic sort of gameplay that Yareli creates; I'm constantly moving around, to empower my guns, scatter bubble traps, or mow down foes with my spinny saws. Merulina, on paper, facilitates this, although in practice I'm not sure if she actually helps me move faster (she feels like she does at least, though my mission clear times beg to differ). Merulina lead me to accidentally discover a hidden room in the Void that I wasn't aware of after 2k+ hours, by accidentally sliding into a small hole I normally wouldn't have noticed or entered. It's not much, but it made me smile. Things I don't like: Riptide is a massive functional hole in Yareli's design. I feel little motivation to mod for range, and it leaves blind spots in her gameplan; very large numbers of enemies spread out widely can be dangerous for her, because Sea Snares have travel time and a limited count per cast, Aquablades has a limited range, and her passive mostly enhances linear DPS depending on what gun you have equipped. Normally, you would use Riptide in these situations to gather the enemies into one spot while dealing large amounts of damage and disabling them, but you just don't get enough effect for the casting cost and it usually just feels like a waste of energy, and oftentimes minor obstructions (even just uneven elevation) can completely stop enemies from being hit. Merulina is very unresponsive to modding! The ability itself only cares about efficiency and strength, and at that strength only increases her HP (which is already very high). Personalising my gear is a large part of what makes Warframe fun for me and it's sad that the centerpiece of Yareli's gameplay is so limited on that front. The fact that Riptide doesn't seem to be worth modding for makes Merulina barely being moddable at all even more glaring. Aquablades is also fairly boring to mod, but I suspect this may be more of a problem because of Merulina being almost entirely unmoddable and Riptide being AWOL, thus directing the entirety of the motivation for modding onto just two abilities. It being entirely flat damage certainly doesn't make it more interesting but I don't think it's an inherent problem with Aquablades itself, just the environment that it's in putting more pressure on it than it's supposed to bear. Overall, although Yareli has a lot of fun stuff going on and is IMO not weak in the slightest, she's not that interesting to build. Merulina, which you should be riding at all times if you enjoy not dying, ignores any mobility mods you may put on Yareli, ability range does almost nothing of note (extends the bubble homing radius which is quite far enough to begin with, and extends the area her worst ability would cover if it weren't blocked by small rocks and/or discarded candy wrappers), she doesn't really need any more shields than her base amount (in my opinion), health or armour isn't super relevant to her at all, and strength mostly just increases her ability damage which while certainly something isn't really her main source of damage anyways (the main source being the massive crit buff she gives to secondaries, which does not scale with ability mods at all). Aquablades has small dead zone between them and Yareli where the blades don't hit. It's not super bad but it's mildly annoying, especially since the staggered enemies sometimes fall into it by sheer chance. Things I want: Fix Riptide. If this is literally the only thing that's done I'd be happy. Not exaggerating, it'd probably need to do at least twice the damage it currently does to be remotely worthwhile, either as a direct buff to the base damage or to the scaling factor. Adding some kind of better CC effect to it (cold proc? idk lol) would also be an option, or adding a defense debuff in somewhere I GUESS. I'd also like the LoS check to be a tiny bit more lenient since right now it has Fire Blast syndrome where it seems very prone to being blocked by nonsensical things, like an enemy being slightly behind the crest of a slope. Make Merulina more responsive to modding. I'm not sure how I'd like it to be done. Attaching K-Drive mods onto her is certainly an idea (it's weird that we can't!). Maybe tweak Merulina's physics to be more maneuverable? It'd probably be a good idea to let players get used to her before committing to anything but I do suspect she'll need some help to be useful transportation in standard missions. I don't think Sea Snares or Aquablades NEED buffs per se but I wouldn't cry foul if they got another boost. Sea Snares's damage in particular drops off hard. Maybe make Critical Flow a bit stricter about when it considers you to be "moving". Walking backwards into a wall goes against the spirit of the passive, and repeatedly tapping a direction to juuuuuust barely satisfy the reqs is actively annoying and IMO should not be incentivised. Things I don't want: Please don't make Aquablades scale significantly with range, if at all. While I'd be fine with the blades having a larger contact area to make them easier to hit with (in particular eliminating that awful dead zone between her and the blades), I'm concerned that if the range could be extended too far it'd lower the incentive to move around to hit things with them which would be directly counter to Yareli's main concept of making the player want to move around (tbf though, the current range is so tiny that I'm not sure if even max range would be particularly cancerous to her gameplay). Please don't remove LoS from Riptide entirely. Its base range is dangerously close to the range required to cover the entire radius of Hydron when maximised (>14m); removing LoS would create another ability that you press over and over mindlessly to wipe rooms which is, in my humble opinion, boring. It's good that the ability makes you consider terrain and is limited to enemies in clear cover, I just think it goes a bit too hard to the detriment of usability. Besides Riptide I'd actually say Yareli is okay, although I think too much of her power may be in things like her passive which aren't moddable.
  3. Thanks for a nice presentation! The server issues were very unfortunate but s*** happens and I'm very excited for what's on the horizon! Cheers, DE! :D
  4. i'm pretty sure de could make a warframe that is literally functionally invulnerable and would still get complaints about survivability also I wouldn't stress too much about merulina being removed; de is ??? sometimes but they're usually smart enough to just ignore completely unconstructive suggestions
  5. Merulina's top speed is much higher than going on foot; however, she needs a significant amount of space to stop, start, and turn, and colliding even obliquely with an object causes her to bounce away and lose momentum (exacerbated by her large collision box), AND she is nearly incapable of altering her momentum in midair, so navigating obstacles inevitably causes her to slow down significantly. Because of this, I wouldn't say she's appreciably faster than just walking in most scenarios, and the long animation for mounting and dismounting her makes swapping as the situation needs impractical. (Also I'm not sure if her speed scales with mods in any way?) Being able to use a K-Drive in actual missions is very cool but I'd say Meru's physics need to be tweaked, as right now in purely utilitarian terms she is a discount Warding Halo that makes you steer like a bumper car and prevents you from using melee. Riptide is just terrible. It looks cool. That's about the only good thing about it. It's absurdly expensive even for what it seemingly wants to do (to wit, a "panic button" that you push when you're completely overwhelmed) and even at that it doesn't do its job very well. Its "CC" is brief and scatters affected enemies around wildly which is counterproductive (not to be an ass but why is this still happening in mid-2021?). The damage scales terribly against armoured foes, and struggles to dent even Star Chart level heavies and fails completely against level 60+ armour. Having the damage scale with enemy count is an okay mechanic but it just doesn't go hard enough. Capturing 10 enemies (a tall order in itself but I want to show some good faith) gives a base damage of 15,000, which sounds like a lot, but can still barely dent mid-high Grineer without status priming, and even then it begs the question of why would I not just shoot them all? The animation is quite long and it's very expensive for what is basically just a small AoE attack, and why go through all that when I can just fire my Prisma Angstrum a single time? Beyond that Yareli's basically fine IMO and everything does its job. Sea Snares kills trash and disables anything it can't kill for a good long while. Aquablades (underrated IMO) provides passive defense and supplemental damage -- 1500 base Slash damage per second (note that the damage listed in the Arsenal is the DPS *per blade*, and there are 3) with guaranteed Bleed adds up surprisingly fast when combined with Viral procs from weapons, although it's still lackluster against endgame foes. Merulina keeps her alive and is fun to play with even if she's dubiously-practical as transportation. Her passive is wonderful although the implementation might need some tweaking -- you can maintain it indefinitely by just tapping forward rapidly without actually really moving, or by walking into a wall. I wouldn't object if Sea Snares and Aquablades was buffed but I also don't think they need it per se. She's not gonna break the meta in half or anything but she's enjoyable enough. I might do a more in-depth analysis later but I haven't actually played with her that much (I literally have not even had her for 24 hours at the time of this writing lolzers) and also I just don't feel like it right now, it's hot AF and I want to nap.
  6. i would be both stunned and dismayed if it was made to scale with range, given that it is an entirely passive radial damage source that can be made to last just over a minute and a half and afaik deals bleed damage de generally does not like having abilities that people can flick on to autokill rooms
  7. giving any kind of significant buff (>literally doubling the crit chance bonus) to a warframe after not even two days of feedback (from the sort of person who'd rather spend money on something they could get for free if they just wait a few days...) is a very dangerous game stay frosty, DE
  8. oh heck yeahhhhh cant wait to see what broke horribly for no apparent reason this time cheers DE, and happy summer!
  9. dont get your hopes up lol, a im very good at writing a lot of words that dont actually amount to much :D quibble away tbh, agreeing is for pansies and im actually disappointed by how little hostility i'm getting considering i used the word "nerf" a total of 8 times, twice in a positive context (!!!). also im glad you enjoyed the read :D tbh warframe is truly astounding in that it is not only simultaneously the best and worst game i have ever played but also somehow manages to get both even worse and even better with each major update i actually straight forgot that IPS damage used to have 4x weighting for rolling status procs lmfao (actually i think it was 8x? whatever)
  10. perfectly balanced, as all things should be
  11. I do agree with this in that it is extremely difficult at the moment to add endgame progression when a large amount of the game's perpetually-cycling content (most notably Void Fissures) is forever stuck in midgame which gets progressively dumber the more you can overkill everything by sneezing E: also sorry about the triple post, im exhausted rn and forums are hard lol
  12. While I think you're exaggerating how easy it is to kill enemies in midlevel content (only a bit though, this is still a somewhat-valid point) you are very correct that any conversation on a given weapon thing being "too strong" does immediately invite the question of "why are we discussing weapons at all when x nuke ability exists" especially at sub-endgame levels
  13. remove all weapons of every category from the game, and all warframes except atlas
  14. Because their additional effects trigger on-kill, they will be significantly more effective at making mid-level missions even more trivial than they already are than they will be at their intended purpose of making Steel Path more balanced, thus adding more power creep to an already overtaxed game for no good payoff. Obviously it's impossible to say for sure when they haven't even been released yet but they read as a very, very dumb move to me. That is all.
  15. I wrote most of this up when the weapon balance stuff was talked about in... I think May's devstream? I don't really remember. From the sound of it the changes are already finalised and ready to ship so I'm pretty sure most of this is moot but I might as well post it now rather than never I suppose. Textwall warning. (also obviously literally everything past this point is 100% opinion from someone who is very much not hardcore and mostly just does 1hr selkie runs over and over while waiting for new content lol) The "baseline" for primary weapons is perfectly adequate; even "mediocre" weapons like the Prisma Gorgon are more than capable of handling endgame level enemies if modded and supported correctly. The main point of comparison is probably efficiency rather than absolute viability: do they "handle" enemies, or completely disintegrate them on a massive scale with minimal effort? Warframe is, primarily, a horde shooter. You are routinely faced with dozens of enemies at once, sometimes with a couple "tougher" foes mixed in for taste. This makes AoE weapons extremely effective; if there are eight enemies in front of me, and I fire a weapon that hits all eight, my damage output is effectively multiplied 800%. From the moment I joined this game up until the present, multi-target weapons have always been the primary option, with the community only moving upwards to more effective options as they became available or (more rarely) as popular options were nerfed; our Amprexes, Ignis Wraiths, and Atteraxes have been shelved in favour of the Kuva Nukor, Kuva Bramma, Bubonico, et cetera... with the Sisters on the horizon, further power creep (or at the very least option creep, with roughly-equal but slightly different alternatives to the above taking up additional niches that can't currently be covered exactly) on this front is probably inevitable. While self-damage was an abomination and replacing it with self-stagger was, in my opinion, the correct move, it has also lead to explosive weapons becoming highly dominant due to the extreme attack radius allowing them to hit many enemies at once, vastly increasing their damage potential compared to single-target weapons; the rise of the Kuva Bramma is a pretty sufficient example of how making these weapons not *actually, literally suicidal* greatly improved their utility far beyond what additional damage falloff can balance out. The self-stagger can be mitigated in multiple ways, and with the advent of Primed Firestorm/Fulmination their effect radius can be increased to ludicrous amounts. Ignoring auxiliary factors (which do comprise about 95% of Warframe but whatever) a single target weapon would need to deal roughly N times as much base damage as an AoE weapon to match the damage output, where N is the number of enemies the AoE weapon is capable of hitting; this ignores distance-based falloff which most AoE weapons have, and also factors such as Tesla Chain that directly profit off of hitting multiple enemies that are clustered together. Obviously, one factor working against AoE weapons is that they're incapable of concentrating their damage on a single target; however, AoE weapons in Warframe not only do not often have significantly lower concentrated DPS than single-target weapons of a comparable acquisition point, but in fact sometimes have *superior* DPS. Consider the Kuva Tonkor, which (assuming direct hits) deals 403 damage per second (factoring reload time and firing rate) with 30% crit chance, 2.5x critmult, and 17% status chance, with the Kuva Hind, which in its burst fire mode deals 221 dps (272 without factoring reload) with 25% crit chance, 2.1x critmult, and 33% status chance. As difficult-to-impossible as it is to objectively calculate which weapon is ever "better" in Warframe due to the huge number of complicating factors, I think it can be assumed with a fair degree of confidence that the Kuva Tonkor's single-target DPS is not appreciably worse than the Kuva Hind's, and in fact may be generally superior, while the Tonkor also provides AoE damage that the Hind cannot replicate; the only obvious reason to use the Hind over the Tonkor is that the Tonkor deals self-stagger, and the Hind can apply status much more quickly and consistently which is useful for applying Virus/Corrode to armored heavies. I don't personally think this is very compelling at all in light of the extreme efficacy and convenience of the Tonkor's AoE and its superior raw DPS. The extra Viral procs would just about let the Hind break even damagewise, when it needs to *far outstrip* the Tonkor to be worthwhile. Even beyond that, instances in which Warframe presents you with a single very durable target are quite far between, and often self-contained in side missions (Eidolons, Profit-Taker, Liches, et cetera). For the vast majority of core content -- in particular activities such as Void Fissures, Affinity farming, Kuva Survival, etc which will likely always be immediately relevant to all players at all times for the forseeable future -- you are dealing with very large numbers of enemies with roughly similar levels of durability (or lack thereof). In order for a single-target weapon to be relevant in these scenarios, you would not only need the ST weapon to deal absolutely ludicrous levels of damage to match not just the basic numbers afforded by AoE weapons but also the convenience of being able to hit many enemies at once without needing to individually recognise and aim at each one, but you would also need enemies capable of soaking said amounts of damage in order for it to be meaningful. Another solution to this could be to simply have the game in general present fewer, but tougher, enemies, in order to mitigate the advantages of AoE weapons, but this would result in a massive gamewide rebalancing that would almost certainly not be worth the problems it would inevitably cause. You could also try to cleverly design new enemies so that AoE options are less effective, but doing this neatly without creating Nullifiers 2.0 (ie. not succeeding at their intended purpose while creating balancing issues elsewhere) is beyond the scope of this text, and in any case since AoE weapons don't even deal appreciably less concentrated damage than single-target weapons this entire paragraph is a waste of time. I personally believe that AoE weapons should be nerfed if any action is taken; buffing single-target weapons would be meaningless because as far as I can tell few to no enemies encountered actually have the stamina for more damage to be relevant outside of high-level Steel Path and some bosses/midbosses (which honestly don't need to be trivialised any more than they already are). Warframe is a game where damaging multiple enemies at once *at all* let alone an arbitrary amount within a given radius will always be very useful, and barring major overhauls to how enemies work or what missions we want to do that is a fact that will have to be accepted one way or another, either by accounting for their extreme efficiency when balancing (when the game as it exists seems to be barely aware of this fact...) or by just committing to being a game about explosions instead of bullets. Also, it'd be NICE if there were more miniboss-type enemies like Corrupted Vor, the Acolytes, etc. to unload large amounts of single-target damage into but I can't think of any way to retrofit them into existing content without them coming off as a massive unwanted intrusion (Nightwave mobs are/were bad enough). Secondary weapons are, by themselves, mostly fine statwise for what I think is their "intended" purpose: as a situational option for when your primary isn't the best choice, or as a supplemental utility (status priming, etc.). Unfortunately, they are held back significantly by how long it takes to swap weapons. Swapping is a major time commitment by itself, but for a weapon intended from the outset to not be a permanent choice, the time spent switching is outright crippling, as you are implicitly expected to not only swap it in but also swap it out shortly thereafter, essentially doubling the time commitment to using it. It takes about a second to swap weapons, two to swap them both ways, during which time you may not fire your weapon, cast any abilities, or roll. This is quite dangerous in Warframe, and on top of that having to sit and watch my immortal space pirate robot ninja fumble with their guns for a full second, twice, just feels bad on a visceral level. There are multiple mods that hasten switching, but many are on your Warframe which is inconvenient, and even at that mod space is at a high premium and most secondaries are weak enough that sacrificing a mod slot to get it in and out faster risks making it entirely useless. Obviously there are more things to be looked at but I personally think that the single best thing that can be done for secondaries is to rethink how weapon swapping works. I think a bit of time commitment etc. is appropriate but what currently exists in the game is excessive and makes the game more about "swap as little as possible" than "swap as needed", which restricts how the game is designed in other ways. A lot of weapons have absolutely awful ammo economy. Major culprits are weapons such as the Phage or Phantasma that use shotgun ammo (which is more rare and grants much less ammo per drop) but have their behaviour copypasted from weapons that use rifle ammo. Many fast-firing pistols also have poor economy and run out frequently, but this is likely a deliberate design choice to force them to only be used as appropriate; it is merely annoying because it runs up against the aforementioned issue where the game very strongly wants you to pick either your primary or secondary and stick to it as much as possible. On the flipside, many weapons are intended to be balanced by using sniper ammo which drops rarely and in low quantities, but then Ammo Mutation exists and can usually be comfortably slotted into the Exilus slot without sacrificing much. Melee weapons are, IMO, generally fine powerwise, certainly overpowered but not (I feel) in a way that's particularly cancerous; I wouldn't cry particularly hard if they were nerfed but I'm not sure if it'd be necessary. They are extremely boring across the board, however; few have truly unique mechanics, and fewer still have actual gameplay beyond "mash E, sometimes with a combination of buttons in a specific order, to macerate things immediately in front of you". Weapon archetypes feel largely cosmetic, with some exceptions; "blunt" weapons such as hammers or fists feel much, much worse because their stances do not carry guaranteed Slash procs, severely limiting their ability to penetrate armour. Also, it feels weird that hammers have such poor followthrough given that the whole point of a hammer is that it stores and carries momentum! I will point out: having forced Bleed on many melee attacks is kind of ridiculous, more so when some melee weapons just can't do so for purely flavour reasons. Being able to inflict armour-ignoring damage with 100% reliability, regardless of status chance, element layout, etc. is extremely powerful and something no gun can currently replicate; in particular, it lets applicable weapon types focus almost entirely on crit in order to reliably deal gigantic Bleeds, getting the best of both worlds. I'm actually not sure why Warframe's team seem to be focusing on forced Impact/knockdown procs when forced Bleed seems much more glaring? A bit broader than the scope of this discussion but probably necessary because of how integral it is to any discussion of anything that deals damage in Warframe: damage types in Warframe absolutely suck, and I hate them. Warframe Revised attempted to fix some of them and succeeded in some ways and failed miserably in others: Viral, already one of the best damage types, was actually *buffed significantly* for reasons that mystify me, and can now more than quadruple damage without the enemy being able to get the lost HP back. Blast was nerfed for similarly-incomprehensible reasons, formerly being a decent if disruptive CC effect and now doing almost nothing substantial. I get that the intent was to replace the disruptive knockdown with something less obnoxious but it seems to have accomplished this by making it instead do nothing at all (possibly an attempt to nerf explosive weapons since many do almost exclusively Blast?). Gas has been terrible ever since except against low-mid level Infested and Corpus due to not getting the same scaling factors as other DoT effects, and for not being compatible with any of the health-damage-boosting elements (Corrosive, Viral, and now Heat). It's at least compatible with Magnetic which has niche use. I honestly find this tragic, because Gas's status effect is actually pretty cool. Electricity was, on paper, vastly improved by being made a DoT, and on paper, would now just be Better Gas, except in practice it's now quite badly implemented; if the original target dies from the damage instance that procs the effect, the DoT is never started, and so no splash damage is ever generated. This greatly limits its utility, as it makes it quite poor for helping slow-firing weapons hit more enemies in one shot, and instead makes it primarily good for either weapons that deal lots of damage instances quickly, or AoE weapons that hit lots of enemies at once. In those cases, it's still quite decent, but being held back by what seems like an implementation mistake is quite sad. Impact damage is still terrible and directly makes weapons perform worse; its main benefit, performing well against shields, is moot, because enemy shields in Warframe still scale laughably inconsistently with armour and Impact damage does nothing to mitigate shield gating which is their only mildly-annoying effect. Meanwhile, Impact performs poorly against all armour and the stagger proc infamously disrupts attempts at headshots, overall leaving Impact damage extremely undesirable particularly for guns and with no real upside to counteract its downsides. Magnetic damage is similarly pointless, but at least isn't actively disruptive and is specialised enough to have niches where Impact is just mediocre-to-bad all around. Corrosive's nerf was probably a good idea (rip Corroding Barrage tho), as the conversation around armour should not in fact be "full strip or bust", but the fact that it was nerfed makes Viral inexplicably being buffed by a factor of two even more bizarre. Also many Warframe abilities can still full strip, and the conversation around said abilities does still degenerate into "full strip or bust", but that's outside the scope of this text I GUESS. Heat now gives it very stiff competition for armor stripping, doubly so because Heat also does damage and can be used with Viral. Slash is still pretty much exactly as good as it always was -- debatably better because Viral is now better. It not penetrating shields would mean more if shields meant more, although it's much appreciated on the player end. Puncture exists. It's not actually that bad, as any small advantage against armour is good, but it is rendered irrelevant by Bleed existing. What is the point of a damage type that is slightly effective on armour when there's a damage type that entirely ignores armour? Crit weapons like having Puncture, kind of, but then Hunter Munitions exists for primaries and melee can just force Bleed on everything. Heat. Heat is quantifiably insane now. It stuns, it strips armour, it deals indefinitely-stacking damage. Why? Most of the other elements deal only one of these things, and none of them stack indefinitely in the same way that Heat does (although to be honest if you're taking more than 6 seconds to kill something in the first place something is seriously wrong). As an actual element it's nothing special but the status effect... good lord. It's even compatible with both Viral and Corrosive! The only thing I can say in its disfavour is that the DoT only weakens armour instead of entirely ignoring it so it's usually not better than Slash. AND THE REST: Toxin, Cold, Radiation: Have uses. Mostly. Cold is generally effective against both armour and shields and can greatly reduce the damage dealt by heavies, but is held back by most enemies in Warframe having a life span measured in seconds (if that!) once you turn your gun on them; as is often repeated in conversations like this, disabling is irrelevant when it doesn't buy you more time than just killing the enemy would take. Toxin bypassing shields is nice but, once again, shields aren't super relevant anyways; much like Magnetic, however, it's still specialised enough to have some uses. (It's worth noting that Toxin is not compatible with any damage boosting elements; it can only exist on the same weapon as Corrosive or Viral if the weapon innately has the latter, it can't exist on the same weapon as Heat at all, and it can't hit shields so it can't be affected by Magnetic). Radiation is niche but it can almost entirely bypass Alloy Armor and is great for shutting off healer auras. I personally think Radiation is actually the ideal place for where damage types should be: it has clear situations where it's helpful and situations where it doesn't help much, those situations are somewhat more specific than "always hit X faction with Y element", and is useful for both its properties as a damage type (bypassing a specific armor type) and for its status (turning off Ancient Healers and other similar annoying effects). The Impact+Bleed mods were a bad idea because they represent the game degenerating towards everything just being Slash, which I suppose would be "a solution" to Slash being far and away the best IPS element but a nevertheless very regressive one. Fortunately, the mods in question are generally pretty terrible so I can just pretend they don't exist. Stuff that I would want from a hypothetical weapon pass, in a perfect world where all of this is easy to implement and will not result in the entire game being flipped upside down and the community being enraged for no real payoff: -Another pass on damage types and status is probably in order. It's difficult to have a conversation about weapon balance when the basic currency weapons use to accomplish their purpose is IMO fundamentally broken. Making the various elements have more distinct roles will, in particular, greatly help make melee weapons not feel so much as a bunch of interchangable skins that apply the same 3 elements to enemies' faces. Also please fix Gas damage so element mods work on it again because the current behaviour feels like a legitimate oversight. -Nerf AoE weapons. Reduce their radius. Reduce their damage. Reduce their ammo stock. Make stagger not blockable. Make them something I have to think about firing for reasons other than "my Warframe might stumble for half a second (or not)". Yes there will be salt (including from me but throw me some more Atlas skins and we'll call it good :^) ); that is in my opinion a bonus. -Reduce the time to swap between primary and secondary weapons. -Make all the melee weapons feel less... same-y. The proposed revision to how attack speed works would help a bit in making every single weapon stance not an indistinguishable hurricane of damage numbers but it'll still be boring. Also I think it'd just result in Berserker being the only real option since it's easily the biggest boost I think? (I'm aware this is extremely broad to the point of being meaningless) -Buff hammers. Please. I'm dying here. -Reconsider forced status on melee stances as a whole -- not just for Impact procs (I have no idea why the devs are so focused on forced Stagger being what makes melee so good when forced Bleed exists). Right now some melee archetypes just feel worse simply as a function of whether they can inflict with 100% reliability the best damage-dealing status in the entire game. -Give enemy durability another pass, in particular how absurdly fragile enemy shields are. Many issues I have mentioned above hinge on the fact that enemies in general are very fragile, and shields in particular being a nonentity. Some of the Corpus enemies in the new Railjack nodes have damage resistance and it does, somewhat, make them more of an issue but it's still not enough in my opinion, and is a solution with its own problems (chiefly that it's not really communicated to the player at all what's happening, and is basically just re-implementing armour scaling except not interactive). -Make the Stug better. No, this has nothing to do with anything I've been talking about, but come on. It's just embarrassing. (Side note: It's weird and somewhat frustrating that we're getting yet another weapon balance pass when we have had Warframes capable of literally just sitting in the middle of a room continuously killing enemies as they spawn in without even making eye contact since before I even started playing, and in the entire time I've been playing not a single thing has been done about it besides adding LoS to... Khora's whip (???), but I do respect that DE has to treat Warframes with much more delicacy than they do weapons.)
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