Trentiel
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Posts posted by Trentiel
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To add to the topic of this thread. I too vote against randomized % stat bonuses on weapons. Like you say, this works in looters type games that throw roll after roll at you. Kuva Liches are an absolute chore, like part-time-job level chore, to beat down. It makes NO sense to give their rewards randomized stats.
And if this business about the frame effecting the stat bonus is true, then Gauss gives Impact. Here I was hoping I could get a cold weapon by using his cold damage... RIP my first Kuva weapon I guess. (+Impact Quartakk, in case you're wondering.)
While it's novel that you can pick the bonus by using a particular frame, because of the nature of the stilted damage type system, it means no one is going to create a Lich with particular frames, because it's disadvantageous for your reward. Lame.
And while it's nice that you can pick the bonus, +Slash on a Brakk would be nice. +Slash on an Ogris would be a crime. Maybe choosing physical vs elemental bonus, changes your possible weapon type? Has anyone gotten a physical bonus on an elemental weapon, like the Ogris?
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12 hours ago, SordidDreams said:
That's based on the assumption that you can lock multiple stats permanently. What if you can only lock one stat, and only for one roll?
That said, I do think stat locking with few limitations is the way to go. Would it tank the riven market and piss off some people? Absolutely yes. Do I care? Absolutely not. Yeah, it would piss off a few hundred nolifers who farm kuva like it's their full-time job, but it would make the game far more enjoyable for tens of thousands of casual players. I say do the utilitarian thing and maximize the overall good.
Locking a stat on one roll, and what... just keep locking it? Roll after roll? Even if you can't lock more than one stat permanently, it would still be exploitable. Removing a stat would not. You still have to work with what you're given, you just get veto powers on one stat per roll. It wouldn't be exploitable, while still giving the player the power to salvage near-miss rolls. Increasing the window where we can get something great.
And, while you don't care about the riven market. DE does. So good luck making any suggestion that's going to fly with anyone who is in any position to make this decision.
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1 hour ago, Sormaran said:
Phage is kinda in the same dumpster. This mechanic could be so much better if all of it would be shoved on alt fire, so you can use it when you want to, and normal fire would be just straight beam. Then it'd be useable. Or, after you achieve straight beam - make it so you can lock it and it stays that way even if you stop firing.
Basicaly a very simple fix, just allow us to have straight beam for these 2 weapons at the ready and put unique mechanic as a backup. This is so miniscule, i cant even call it a rework, but at the same time i cant see anything being done and both weapons gonna stay on their meme and 3k mastery shelf for who knows how long.
Phage at least has one beam that fires forward at all times. Really, for these wacky beam weapons, the spool up mechanic really hurts them.
Phage has 3 problems.
-It starts spread out, instead of concentrated. Which I suppose could be argued to be a kind of spool up mechanic, but beams now HAVE a spool up mechanic built in.
-Because the beams don't fire straight when spread, it's sort of hard to get them to stay trained on enemies.
-To narrow the beam, you hold the aim button, while we have a perfectly functional alt-fire button. The aim button is for aiming and aim gliding. Not this baloney.
To solve Phage's 3 problems I suggest:
-Let it start concentrated by default.
-Let the wiggly tentacles stick to enemies when spread out, but only when spread out.
-Use the alt-fire to toggle modes between concentrated and spread beams.
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Convectrix is one of those guns that has always piqued my interest, because It seemed so unique. A beam shotgun, that... did.. something. That whole opening closing mechanic seemed so novel, it had to do SOMETHING to justify itself. I had wild imaginings of what it must be like. Like an amprex that connects between enemies struck by either beam? Or a flat wide beam that extends as it narrows? SOMETHING!
Then I got my hands on it, and it was.. some kind of scissor beam? Okay, fine it's a scissor beam. I had fun manually opening and closing the laser blades.
Then the beam revival happened. And they made beam weapons require you to constantly train the beam on an enemy in order to do full damage. Well, there's the scissor beam right out.
Then, it was "fixed' by lowering the spool-up time required to do full damage. And they made the alt fire automatically strafe the beams open and closed, utterly killing the fun of the manual scissor mechanic.
At that point, I just went back to not caring. They obviously don't care about this weapon. It's a joke. It's a gun that doesn't fire straight. It's a gun that requires you to train the laser on enemy continuously in order to do damage... that doesn't hold still. It's a joke. I said it before. I'll say it again, it's a joke.
But I have hope. Because I think someone at Digital Extremes knows it's a joke. Because some of the new Orb Vallis enemies use the Convectrix. But these guns don't fire anything LIKE the Convectrix. Meaning, even the Corpus wouldn't use it as an effective weapon. Meaning, someone put this gun in the hands of the enemy and said "oh... this is terrible." DE, please. Just, rework the core mechanic of this gun to do something effective. It's the right time.
I'd suggest making it a short wide beam that extends as it narrows, by changing modes with the alt fire. This would be quite fun, and be an effective tool in the hands of our enemies too!
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That is patently false. Locking a stat would allow you to brute force the outcome, slowly locking in your preferred roll with each successive roll.
Removing a stat, once, per roll. With no carry over, would just help with near misses. Where you roll almost ideal stats, but for one that tanks the whole affair. Like -damage. There's plenty of rolls that wouldn't benefit from such a feature.
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Locking Riven Stats would tank the riven market, make it too easy to get perfect and highly meta Riven mods. It's a contentious issue because the players want power and freedom, and DE wants a sustainable market. This is not what I'm about to suggest. Locking Riven Stats is an idea going no where.
Here's a request I've never heard anyone field before. The ability to REMOVE a stat. Haven't you gotten that PERFECT roll, except for -damage or -multishot or +puncture on a strictly elemental weapon? If there was an item that allowed us to remove one stat, all those near-miss highly-frustrating rolls would suddenly become opportunities. They don't happen all the time, but when they do they make me groan.
The idea here is that the item would be only usable once per-roll. Its effect only applies to the current roll. You roll the riven's stats again and it rolls like normal, 2-4 stats. If you want to remove a stat on a fresh roll you have to apply another of these items. You wouldn't really want to though, since you're probably taking a near-perfect roll and trimming the fat. But it would have very stable standard rules, you wouldn't really be able to exploit it, just... fudge your luck a bit. You would not be adding a preferred stat, you're not forcing a specific outcome. The idea is that you're rescuing a botched roll.
Edge cases would involve RIvens with only 2 stats. Do you let a player create impossible rolls, like 1 stat rivens? or 1 positive 1 negative stat riven? Maybe, Maybe. That's up to DE. I think it's fine, a riven with only one stat value, say damage, might be a little ridiculous and not what DE intended with rivens, but it's also not exactly meta. People want rivens with multiple stats in most instances, because it allows them to sneak on modifiers that they wouldn't have room for otherwise. Like punch-through or reload speed.
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I just wanted to pop in and support this bug report thread. This is an annoying problem for stealth with any frame that can't CC-lockdown enemies into a permanent unalert state. Like Ivara, Equinox, Vauban, or Khora. All great Stealth frames by the way. Especially Khora.
I HAVE adapted to the problem by removing multishot mods from my stealth weapons in the mean time. In a way, this stealth combo bug makes the multishot mods less mandatory, since there are some situations you wouldn't want them. But! It is still a bug. It would still be better fixed up. There could be better ways to make multishot less mandatory. Especially since this stealth combo bug makes all suppressed and hushed shotguns useless for stealth combos.
The solution suggested already, giving a short .5 second delay before enemy becomes alerted would help immensely. Not just for gameplay, but for realism as well. If you've ever seen slow-motion footage of someone getting hit with a ball or balloon or something, the impact happens well before the person even blinks.
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I gotta say, this is a pretty hot idea.
With it tied to lander air support, that keeps it from being abusable.
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I swear. If the dog that wins isn't a Corgi, this is a missed opportunity.
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I'm so happy that many of these walls have been set up to always open, rather than sometimes open. I thought all of them had been fixed, but I found another in the longest parkour room. The one with the upwards falling water elevator.
As you can see in this screenshot. Look at the big Map, there is an item box there behind the wall I'm looking at. On the opposite side, is a Cephalon Fragment.
I'm was really disappointed at the time to miss out on whatever was back there, but... I might have the biggest ayatan collection ever, and more Endo I could possibly use. So don't feel bad for my loss, I just wanted to share this here to point out another one of the walls in the Orokin Void ship tile, that needs to be permanently opened.
There's 1 passage way straight into this parkour room, and then two on the sides to get out. Maybe both of the two side passages should open once you go through the course?
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1 hour ago, Navarchus said:
I'm just curious, what's the reason for telling people your sexual preference? It seems like a personal & irrelevant thing but everyone hangs out in different circles so maybe I just can't relate. I've only been asked about my sexuality about 3 times by people in this community and I don't think any of them were in-game.
Also, DE can't possibly make a system that lets people who identify as something use words that are linked with hate speech and to derogate. People who would use these words as slurs to try to upset and harass people would just tick every box claiming to be everything in order to get access to these words and escape chatbots suspension even if DE were to make such a solution. I just don't see a solution where slurs & hate speech is filtered + people can use the words they feel belong to them.
That includes the word "gay". Your country/culture may not use it that way but many do, just 2 days ago someone tried to insult me by calling me gay, it's very petty and ineffective but it's still ill intent.The filters in WF are not flawless by any means, I can't say Frosts ball anymore, got to use Sphere or Globe or else people with filter on won't see it. My loadout "Assorted" just got censored a few days ago for having "ass" in it. But I think overall they're doing what they're supposed to just a bit excessively at times.
A week suspension instantly is a bit much. I think first time offenders should get a whisper warning from the bot explaining what they said that was wrong & continuing to break what has been made clear to be against DEs rules leads to chat suspension.
I'm very curious about this last part I don't really understand what it's referring to so I can't really say if I agree with it if I don't understand it, would you elaborate? Even in a PM if it's not something you think should be posted.
Thanks for asking politely. It just comes up, sometimes people are discussing gay things in region, if I feel like talking about my own experiences I chime in. It doesn't come up often. I don't mind talking about it one way or another. It's not my whole world. It does come up a lot more in private, where the filters and mods can't reach. Where honestly it's no one's business but the people I'm talking to anyway. That's where I think a lot of this personal content should stay, sharing personal vulnerabilities in public just isn't wise. However, "gay" is not a slur. It's how gay people self-identify. It's the official term when discussing homosexuality in public, in the news, it's entirely normal. It doesn't matter if the person using it is or isn't gay. It's the word. It has an agreed meaning. If someone wants to put a connotative spin on it. Fine. Let them. But banning it says "these children are right about what it means, it's bad."
Honestly this community is great already. I think aggressive policing is a little too strong for what we're dealing with. Automatic word replacement filters would do more than bans and severe punishments. Minimal moderation is needed.
The last thing is about the moderator previously named "FriendzoningMisandrist" who was renamed to -Misan-. Hardly a change. I am completely against this person in particular having any role of authority over others. There's this idea that this "misandry" is fine because their bigotry is aimed at people who they believe are "advantaged." But I can and will write an entire essay on why I think this is bologna. But as a subject it needs its own topic of discussion.
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2 hours ago, Gandergear said:
it's being discussed very actively, just not in off topic
That thread was closed 30 minutes ago for being too toxic. Right while i was in the middle of writing a very thoroughly thought out statement. So I'll leave it here, so hopefully someone can see it.
I don't think that false-positives are an acceptable trade-off. I've been chat banned for...
- -telling people that I'm gay. (I started saying that I'm a homosexualist instead, works great. Especially if you read it in a high-society British accent.)
- -linking amps and zaws that use the full character limit in all caps. NETLESTING THE PESTERPROD is my own personal infested kicked-from-region stick.
- -I'm sure I've run afoul of the swear bans when I first started playing. Although I'm a 30 year old professional that does a lot of art streaming. I have a personal consideration for communicating in a way that does not insult people.
I'm seeing a lot of people use certain phrases that contain a bad word, but are completely innocuous. Ear Rape. Refers to a forced violation of the auditory senses. I understand the assertion that using the term rape in any other context than talking about an actual sexual assault is somehow dismissive or insulting of rape and rape victims. If that's DE's position then, what is the polite short hand term for this? Ear Pain? Coercive Ear Assault? We could get really creative here. If we're going to have to start curating speech, at the very least give a clear path to walk through the minefield.
I understand that DE wants to filter the language of players in this Mature Rated 18+ violent gore-fest about cyborg ninjas murdering just enough people to maintain a morally gray balance of power. Language is more real, by degrees, than the virtual violence we're all pretending to engage in. Even dens of scum and villainy like Something Awful's forums have filters. But they have language filters. Replacement words. We could have in-world lore justified swears to replace foul language. Also replace slurs with a kind and loving opposites. Give them a warning too, for the more serious stuff. And rethink the banning of the word gay. As self-satisfied as I am with my personal work-around, I find it alarming that using the culturally correct word for homosexuals is not allowed. Gay is the correct word. It's not a naughty word. It's right there in the Gay BLT sandwich.
Punishment doesn't actually make the person punished rethink things, it just makes YOU feel good in a sadistic way. Like beating your children. It just makes them hate and fear you and become sneakier about their transgressions, not respect you and actually follow your lead. Space Mom, please no more spankings.
I have more to say, especially on the seriousness of misandric bigotry and it's impact on society and individuals, but I need more time to formulate my thoughts. Long story short, anyone who proclaims hatred of an entire group of people based only on a biological characteristic, should not ever have a job moderating the speech of others. They intrinsically believe in double standards and should not ever be in a position to adjudicate justice. Not being in a position of power is not a punishment, it's the denial of a privilege. We should not privilege bigots of any stripe.
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It seems to be based on the frame's base energy pool. Volt / Volt Prime have very high energy pools.
Ah well, back in the good ol' days if you wanted abundant energy. You organized a team and made sure someone was on Trinity Duty. Obviously, Harrow won't work since 50 energy isn't enough for him to give energy back to the team.
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I wouldn't take begging for a feature as an absolute sign that the devs need to implement the demands of some shouty players. It is a sign that there is a problem though.
You make a good point about this game being about killing and looting. In fact it's the most fundamental gameplay loop. Kill enemies, pick up their drops. Ammo, Energy Orbs, mods, resources. Ammo and energy are important for the most immediate iteration of the gameplay loop in the current mission, while mods and resources are important for the distant iteration of the gameplay loop in the next mission.
Killing enemies has a very well developed design. Between frames, weapons, and companions there are tons of ways to kill enemies. But looting? Has.... Vacuum, Chesa Kubrow, Mag, and to a certain extent Vauban whose Vortex gathers up drops in one place. And I think that after the role Mag played in the old Viver strategies... I think the developers are hesitant to put in any more of these frame power based looting mechanics.
While I personally would welcome Univac, if the developers want to create a variety of ways to gather loot beyond "have a sentinel with an obligatory mod equipped." They should do it. But if they're not going to do it. My vote is for Univac.
Here's an idea though. What if every frame had vacuum, but the pull range was dependent on power range. 12 meters at 100%, With a minimum and maximum cap of 9-15 meters or so. And getting magnetic status made your vacuum push instead of pull for the duration. HILARIOUS! Satisfy the players AND create some new annoyance that will give their rage filled hearts meaning!
What would you guys do with with Sentinels post vacuum, what niche would they fill? Sentinel's 2.0 DE. Next batch of balance work.
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Let's consider what Steve said in a devstream a while back. They're not removing the core damage mods, because "players like their power." Until otherwise, I would consider this pretty final.
So there are still three options DE could take.
- Continue to leave everything the as is. No change. Status Quo. We're living this option right now.
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Remove base damage mods and build them into the gun level.Steve said no, they're not doing this. So this option is out, for now... - Give mandatory mods like Serration competition.
There are a few arguments for keeping core damage mods. Consider this:
- By making your weapon power linked to a mod, you can equalize power gain across multiple weapons. Creating a smoother arms race between the player's arsenal and the progression of enemy levels across the star chart.
- With base power being tied to specific mod, you can actually mod for less power. That way a veteran player can choose to nerf their weaponry when playing with a new players, so they can play at equal footing.
Now the arguments for a dedicated slot for base-damage mods.
- Because these mods are so very essential, having a dedicated slot means that you can teach a player how important they are right away.
- When you set aside a specific slot for these mods, it raises the question. How would you feel about Aura slots if there was only 1 Aura mod, Energy Siphon? You might argue "why bother with a mod and slot at all, why not just make the aura innate?" But there's a flip side to that, and we're living it. We don't just have 1 Aura mod. We have a huge abundance of aura mods, and there genuinely is a lot of choice in picking which one to use.
- Base-damage competition. Choosing between using say... +165% base-damage Serration and +330% base-damage / -55% accuracy Heavy Caliber. The idea is basically, they would all add base-damage but they'd also provide a trade off or additional bonus. Allowing real choice, rather than just slotting Serration into everything.
- If there are multiple flavors of base-damage mods, each having a unique trade-off. You could present the player with a choice of 3 flavors of base-damage mods through the tutorial quests. Similar to the choice in starter frames / weapons. Directly giving them access to one of these mods, helping introduce the importance of these highly essential damage mods. Then letting the player track down the others as they progress.
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Every time a conversation about mandatory mods comes up, I am compelled to make this point.
There's 3 ways this could go.
- Status Quo, leave everything as it is.
- Remove the mandatory mod and make it a standard feature.
- Give that mandatory mod some healthy competition.
This last option isn't one I see brought up much. The problem with Mandatory mods is that they are always heavy-weight options. They cannot compete with other mods, because other mods aren't in their weight class. So one solution is to create direct competitors to mods like Serration.
I fully support the idea of giving a dedicated base-damage mod slot to weapons. By giving these heavy weight mods their own slot, you can artificially enforce that players can use only one. Similar to Auras. But it wouldn't work without providing alternatives to Serration / Hornet Strike / Pressure Point.
- Heavy Calibur: 330% base damage -55% accuracy (I could actually see many corrupted mods being direct serration competitors with a bit of tweaking)
- +130% base damage +15% flat crit chance (or other small flat-stat modifications that allow you to tinker with a weapons core stats)
- 150% base damage +gives the weapon a special alt-fire (not compatable with weapons with an existing alt-fire)
- Thunderbolt: 200% base damage but the arrows explode on impact doing self-damage, -alarming noise level. (but fix the scaling issue on the explosion)
Things like this, maybe these numbers are a bit wonky. Mods that give you a choice. So instead of choosing between 165% base damage and... well nothing competes with base damage mods. You'd be picking between many heavy weight options.
Melee might be a bit of a trick, since they already have a dedicated mod slot for stances. So adding another might not work. Maybe stance mods could get a base damage modifier?
I think it's a novel enough idea, but I don't see it brought up often. It's not that everything is too OP already. Over powered is the name of the game, the problem is that these mandatory damage mods feel like we're having a mod slot stolen. You see 8 slots, but you know, you don't get 8 slots. You get 7. It would be nice for the game's system to not only directly encourage you to slot in a base-damage mod, but recognize that it's not really giving you a choice in not using one. Instead you'd be presented with an ever-evolving question of "what flavor of base damage would you like on this particular weapon?"
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15 hours ago, Recel said:
The Convectrix is a weapon I will moan about for eternity... because I actually like the idea behind the mechanic. A laser scissor from hell... except currently its blades are so dull that the only way to use it is to close it up and stab Grineer in the eye with it.
What bothers me about the Convectrix is that from the very beginning of its introduction I always assumed it would work differently.
-Seeing its weird reload, I thought that maybe it would be like a beam version of that Deadspace gun. So I thought it would basically be a beam version of our current Cernos Prime, alt fire flipping the beam vertical or horizontal. With a big fat solid beam in between.
-Then once I got it and tried it out, I thought I was missing something. I wondered why the beams shot out to the side. So I thought it might be that it would create a current between the two beams, so if you hit two targets everything in between would get zapped.
-Then after giving it up, I picked it up a year later... only to real discover the real delight in using Convectrix is the scissor beaming.
Of course, after everything. I still think Convectrix is fundamentally flawed. It's a gun that does not fire straight. This does not compute. Sweeping back and forth just isn't a convenient feature. Unlike wide vs narrow shots. Now I know we already have something like this in the form of Phage and Drakgoon. But honestly. It works. Always being able to hit something directly in your cross hairs is important. The sweep just isn't going to fly.
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3 minutes ago, Recel said:
One thing I always hate about any weapon discussion, not just this, is that people with multi-forma, prime modded weapons with a good riven and a potato always say everything is fine. But will most people actually forma multiple times, potato and farm a riven for a weapon to find out if it's actually good?
I mean, sure, we should also look at the end possibilities of a weapon when balancing. But, lets say a weapon only starts to shine when you put a potato on it and two formas. Is the weapon actually good, or are all the high powered mods "carrying it"?
Currently I'm playing with the Flux Rifle and the Convectrix, neither have a potato yet nor a forma, and I can really feel the ramp up time on both. Especially the Convectrix, as I need an extra second just to get the beams on target, even if it hits harder than my Flux Rifle.
If I put all the mods, a potato and a riven on it, sure, possibly even the 10% starting damage would melt things. But if I don't know that the weapons will melt things after a potato and a forma or two, I would probably not seriously consider putting either of those on it in the first place, unless I really like the feel of the weapon.And this is why there are a lot of "hidden gems" among weapons. Because some of them need a specific mod, or a riven to truly shine. Something people might not know, or have.
You shouldn't balance a weapon around primed mods and especially not rivens. If you need a riven to push the weapon through a point, than it's not the weapon that is great, but the riven. And good luck farming up a riven for a specific weapon, out of the hundreds of melee, secondary and primary rivens you might get in a sortie.
/end_rant
This rant is full of completely valid points. We definitely owe it to ourselves to do comparisons with a more fixed-variable scientific approach.
But this gets into my biggest secret gripe with this game. There's almost no standardization in power-progression like you'd see with in other games. Where at a certain point in the game's events, you can have an estimated amount of power progression. With Warframe, we have such a versatility with mods, guns, and scaling enemy levels. How do you compare? I don't like to complain about it, because almost no one else cares, and it's likely not going away. These traits seem to be a permanent fixture of the game's identity.
Most people seem to settle on "how far into 100+ level enemies can I push this weapons utility?" That determines its power level. But how guns compare halfway up that ladder, it's harder to say. Maybe you're right, no exclusive primed mods or Rivens. That could be a good standard for "mid-tier modding"
Let's be honest, most guns can get to 100+ level usability, when modded for the right faction. Which makes a vast majority of weapons "good." But to a lower MR player, it makes almost every new weapon "bad" because they can't cram it full of mods immediately.
Then the following conclusion comes down to subjective taste and play-style preference. So that's why I glossed over most of these guns.
What I tend to zero in on, are guns like the Convectrix that do not seem to have an identity. Where it has some function, but it doesn't actually perform that function very well, on its own terms. This thing is fundamentally broken. Not "under powered" but "does not work." Convectrix beam sweep, is completely counter to the beam heat-up mechanic. You can argue all day long about someone's prized weapon they poured tons of power into, but the Convectrix? No one is going to defend the Convectrix. This gun is an orphan.
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Honestly. As someone contributing to the criticism. Let me say. Most of the beam changes feel really good. I'm a sucker for weird under-used guns, like the Embolist or Convectrix. These two guns were easily the bottom tier beam weapons before the change. I have Rivens for them both, so maybe that changes somethings. They're both 5/5 by the way.
Afterward, I ran around doing T5 bounties on the plains melting armor with the Embolist and generally pleased. It's a good status rainbow gun.
Convectrix? Well, I made a thread about it, that got merged halfway into the Beam-rework-megathread. I made, what I felt, was some really good criticisms. Convectrix is a practical joke gun. It's a gun that doesn't shoot where you aim... until about a second or so later. And the alt-fire sweeps when beam weapons really suffer from sweeping. People keep saying "beam weapons are precision weapons" and I really need to point to Convectrix as the rule breaker. This gun is not a precision weapon. It has side-grade Flux-Rifle stats, with double ammo consumption and a provably useless alt-fire.
The ramp up mechanics work on guns that are designed to aim where you point them. On Panthera's alt-fire it feels really good, because you always get a satisfying grind before it zips through the enemy. The spool up may be a nerf, but I can live with it. I use Panthera on my Mesa to replace Melee. Glaxion, Flux Rifle, Cycron, all these guns fire where you aim. Or in the case of Amprex and Atomos, it auto-fires for you. Phage at the very LEAST has one beam that fires forward at all times. Are these guns good for Eidolons? No. But almost nothing outside of snipers is good for Eidolons.
The Convectrix fundamentally cannot survive this change. The Alt-fire sweeps back and forth, utterly decimating its damage output. This gun, conceptually, visually, design wise is a really neat idea... that just does not work in practice. Period.
Either the damage ramp-up has to change and every other beam weapon needs to be re-balanced around that, or Convectrix's beam mechanic has to fundamentally change.
1. Increase the cooldown time on enemies. If I've shot an enemy target for a while, and this is about transfer of energy then that energy should not dissipate after 1 second. If DE is going to make the gun ramp-up per enemy, the game should reward this investment of time. At least make the cool-down on enemies proportionate to the amount of time they've spent under beam fire. (but that still wouldn't fix the Convectrix, because the sweep mechanic does not make consistent enough contact with enemies)
2. I advocate for changing the Convectrix to consistently fire where you aim. The only way to do this, is to fill in the space between the two margins of the beam.
Imagine the solid-light-pathways in Portal 2. But a wide cone / narrow beam.
Not only would it be consistent with the gun's model animations and firing modes, it would be really neat and replace a provably useless firing mechanic. No one needs a gun that does not fire where you aim it. This is the kind of feature you'd expect on a gun designed to play a prank on its user. Say it with me "Convectrix is a practical joke gun."
If you need any more proof that Convectrix is useless. Go look at the player usage numbers that DE showed during Devstream 107. Every other gun bumped up considerably in player usage. Convectrix though? Still ignored.
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Oh man. Another good idea that just occurred to me.
What if multishot added more beams. But instead of being offset space, they were offset in time. Giving the moving beams a tracer-like feel. That's tracer the concept, not Tracer the character. FYI. This way, when you sweep, the extra beams mean you actually hit more stuff more consistently. Just a thought.
The issue with the Convectrix alt-fire mode is it doesn't train long enough on enemies to ramp up the beam damage. So... this is just one way to allow that to happen.
Maybe giving the map a natural tracer, with multishot adding more length to it?
Like a beam equivalent to those rocket secondary guns.
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So a few things
- The beam turning off immediately when you release the trigger is still in place. Which removes precise scissor-beam game-play.
- It is true that beams require training on a single enemy to ramp up their damage to 100%. So the alt-fire, which now moves the beam back and forth, doing only 10% of the damage you'd get when trained on a single enemy.
- The beam moves slowly back and forth, but not slow enough to ever train on a enemy long enough to build up to 100% damage, and not fast enough to keep the damage from resetting back to 10% on the next pass.
- Because the beam is able to hit stuff in the middle repeatedly a bit easier than the outside, you caaaan over a long time, ramp up damage on enemies directly in front of you. But the alt-fire is still under powered even in ideal simulacrum situations.
In conclusion. Convectrix is still a practical joke gun. It does do damage, it is functional, if you use it like a standard beam weapon. But the alt-fire is undermined by the beam ramp-up mechanics. It sacrifices your ability to hit anything directly in front of you, to do 10% of your damage to a crowd of enemies. Assuming the perfect situation where you have a full crowd to be hit by the sweeping laser.
I think disappointment is warranted.
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6 minutes ago, OvisCaedo said:
So they made it sweep back and forth in the same patch that they're... making it so damage needs to ramp up individually for each target you want to hurt. I guess I have not tested it, but that SOUNDS pretty bad.
When you put it like that, holy cow, that's silly. If it really works that way... the Convectrix firing mechanic is at complete odds with the continuous-fire beam damage mechanic.
If this is true. I think we maybe need to push this a bit harder.
Beam weapons need to be able to hit things consistently.
4 minutes ago, MechaTails said:I tried to like this gun for a while, but could only make it work with a Sonar Banshee.
The scissoring action is fun, but really only ever useful against Infested mobs. Corpus and Grineer don't amass like that, they tend to be scattered, ironically making the wide sweeping beams more useless lol.
While I'm not opposed to having specialized weapons that are especially good against certain factions, I don't think the majority of the community feels that way because they start screaming to buff everything so it's OP against everything.
I think Convectrix can work as is, but it definitely needs tweaking. The Fluctus-like beam can be for a new weapon.
I'd like a new gun with a charge mechanic that fires a wide crescent beam. If you've ever played the NES Ninja Turtles game, there's a half-moon throwing weapon there that would make a good starting point for the feel this crescent beam should have. Hold trigger to charge, release to hurl a beam that devastates everything in its path. Longer charge causes a wider, and slower beam. Make the beam shove enemies back when it touches them, that way it can hit them multiple times. Multishot would increase the amount of times the enemy is shoved back.
I Just want a gun that fires where I aim. A big flat short range beam, isn't really like the Fluctus. It's a beam, not a projectile.
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Oh. This needs to be pointed out.
Hotfix 22.13.4
- Convectrix Alt Fire Beams now continuously Sweep back and forth.
- Fixed the Convectrix showing different Ammo types between fire modes. (Alt-fire is now using Shotgun shells like Primary fire)
- Fixed Convectrix beams visually crossing each other.
Well. I guess I have something to play with now.
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1 hour ago, Azamagon said:
There is one thing from the new beam-update that makes ANY kind of "scissoring"-mechanic useless for beam-weapons anyway, and that's this:
"Perfect accuracy and high fire rate is balanced by limited range and damage ramping up from 10% to 100% over 0.8 seconds when firing and decays back to 10% over 1 second after stopping."
^ That needs to go first, before even planning anything interesting for the Convectrix's unique mechanics.
EDIT; Love your idea #3 though, wouldn't mind that change at all. Your idea #2 also sounds quite cool, but #3 seems easier to create (and is probably more practical too).
That cool down mechanic is a bit odd. I'm not sure what problem it solves exactly. If anyone knows why it was introduced, or for what reason it was given. I'd love to know.
Maybe tapping the trigger allowed you to do damage without spending ammo? Or something? So they needed a mechanic to force the player to use the beam in continuous fire?
And thanks for your support of this idea. I hope it's seen. Convectrix does at least need these 2 undocumented bugs addressed. It's such a cool looking gun with a great reload animation.
As a way to address under-used guns, Rebecca and Megan should do a challenge to play with the guns that sit at the bottom of the player-used stats.
Good idea. Execution is unpleasant. (Kuva Lich)
in General Discussion
Posted
As your clan mate, party to those conversations. I think specifically, the issue I have, is that these mechanics work in isolation, but piled up on each other, it becomes one massive slog.
Let me break down the issues I have with hunting (being hunted by) Liches.
The moment I don't have to put up with this, I will instantly forget about Kuva Liches. I will abort out of any grineer mission that tries to force me into picking up a new Lich. I never want to get roped into this horrendous monopoly on my attention again.
Here's how you'd get me to take this content seriously.