Ravtek
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Posts posted by Ravtek
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I am curious how the dakra prime, orthos prime, and dual ichors compare to each other when modded with their ideal stance. Jiggliest I saw you earlier claiming that dual ichors were the best melee weapons by a long shot, has your mind changed at all? From what I have seen my orthos prime with bleeding willow out-damges my scoliac (tried both stances) and jat kittag (with crushing blow) because it's combo has more hits in it , at least against a single target.where its easier to get all the bleeding willow's multi hits in the combo.
Until Jiggles answers this, I'll answer from that I've seen testing all three so far.
Ichors>Dakra>Orthos Prime
This is assuming their ideal stances.
Dakra prime might be more consistent in damage per hit, but the high crit damage coupled with high attack speed of Ichors probably beats it in terms of long term dps.
Just my 2 cents.
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I find the Dragon Nikana to be extremely underwhelming compared to Orthos Prime, Dual Ichors, and Dakra Prime atm. I haven't test other melees yet.
I was really hoping that made the Nikana or Dragon Nikana a niche weapon that represented "mastery" (ie: Strong Channeling, since as of now, melee channel is a rough 50% boost to damage to any melee weapon, no variety)
But I think right now they should probably either just lower the Mastery Rank requirement, buff the stance, or buff the weapon.
Also, good job on posting the video and showing the numbers, some players tend to deny everything until the numbers are shoved down their throats.
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I don't play Nekros enough to form an opinion or suggestion on all of his abilities, but his Shadows of the Dead should get some tweaking as a start.
I was thinking since Nekros gets to raise the dead from his "pool" of souls. The Shadow army that he creates should be X amount of levels higher than the level of the living counterpart he killed. The reason being that if these dead enemies can be brought back to life (at least a shadow of themselves), these dead enemies could potentially have had the time to communicate with each other and gain knowledge that the living never had. For example, the Grineer Scorcher had different combat training compared to let's say the Heavy Gunner, after they have been killed by Nekros, they now have the time to talk communicate with each other how they died, their combat experiences, and what to improve on.
Then, Nekros being the cruel dood that he is, creates his Shadow Army and forces them to do his dirty work, but now they are stronger and more aggressive, since they have no fear of death.
tl;dr - Shadow army should be stronger than living counterparts. Shadow Army AI should be aggressive like Stalker: Fearless, Nothing to lose mentality.
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I don't think it would slow down the pacing, I don't have any issues with mobility even when my stamina is stuck near 0% all the time due to the mechanics that as long as you have 1% stamina or higher, you can do manuevers like slides, zorencopter, or the quick jump-off wall launch.(I guess this could be addressed)
Also, I think the energy/mana aspect is being followed too strictly for a game like this, again, this is just my opinion, but hero/classes from other games tend to have other aspects that make them very unique aside from their actual skills, such as passives or unique interactions with the environment.
Edit: Does the current "limitations of mobility" that the current stamina system make you consider mods like Marathon or Quick Rest? I'll again emphasize the fact that as long as you have at least 1 stamina, you can perform manuevers like slides, zorencopter, and walljump boosts. Also, Teleport and Tailwind are both mobility manuevers right? Why think of them strictly as skills that must consume energy/mana? The dodge rolls, the wall-runs, and slides are given to ALL Frames, but they cost no energy/mana, so why not add some unique manuever function to each Frame that uses stamina? We're not talking about tearing the whole balance of the game apart, we're just talking about making each Frame a lil bit more unique than what it currently is.
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Alrighty, so it wasn't exactly the most well thought out idea that I've ever had, but I had this idea hatch after remembering when Scott (or maybe it was another DE employee) mentioned how he wanted the stamina system to be more relevant to the game.
Aside from Frame stats, and their 1,2,3,4 abilities, I feel that there is room to diversify and make each frame a bit more unique.
I know, there are still balance issues and tweaks needing to be addressed, but I really wanted to write this down before I forget.
Okay so here it is--
What if each Frame had a unique ability aside from the 1,2,3,4 that costed a set amount of stamina? It doesn't have to be exactly game changing, but it would definitely give slightly more diversity to each Frame.
Let's take it a step further, what if we move some Frame's abilities to use stamina instead of energy, and have new skills replace those spots?
-Just an example, like I said, I didn't really think this whole thing out completely. -
Ash's teleport is something that makes him pretty unique compared to the other Frames. He kind of has this classic Ninja-esque feel, but sometimes you end up removing Teleport and replacing it with some more practical mod, whether it be Health, shield, energy capacity, etc.
So why not make Ash's teleport a stamina based ability? And assign it to a different key, something other than the standard 1,2,3,4 setup? I feel that some Frame abilities are really neat and unique to that frame, but they shouldn't be taking up a mod slot. With what I suggested, DE could maybe implement a new ability to that now empty '3' power, and keep the uniqueness of that Frame that everyone sees in the trailer videos.
-Another example-
What I felt was unique of Zephyr was the whole "aerodynamic" theme, flying around and all that shenanigans. I've seen some people comment that her tailwind costs too much energy, and that it should be lowered (YES, I am aware of mods like streamline)
Without energy though, no one would have a clue that Zephyr was supposed to be the flying-themed Frame.
So what if tailwind was a stamina based ability? You can spam it as much as your stamina allows to, and this would make the current stamina mods more useful, if you want to have extreme air time. (Granted, we might have to take away the damage or tweak it)
-For the Shadowy army guy-
Nekro's Soul Punch could be a stamina based ability, allowing him to knockdown and 'mark' the target, killing the target would save that soul for when you use your ultimate, allowing you to select what you want to bring back from the dead, and not having to be picky about what you kill.
-Frost's ice wave-
Frost's unique way of movement could be an ice wave, of course the damage component might need to be taken out, but you could cast an ice wave and power surf across it at the cost of stamina.
TL;DR Frames should be able to perform actions unique to them without the use of energy, assigning some current abilities or adding new ones to each frame that use up stamina would place more importance on stamina management and increase uniqueness in Frames past just the stats (not really an active way to convey uniqueness to the player), looks, and their 1,2,3,4 abilities.
You guys can discuss or suggest other ideas regarding this, I'm curious about what you guys think should be done to the stamina system.
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Honestly: Her ult just needs full mod-scaling (some mods carry over like Berserker, most don't), and to be a forward-arc AoE like the explosive effects suggest.
There's also a bug currently where her equipped melee weapon gets no XP from any source while in Hysteria-mode.
As to her 3: they need to increase the range, guarantee stun/knockdown, and either increase the shield multiplier or increase her base shields.
Her 1 and 2 are amazing and fine as is.
Pretty much this. I don't care how they buff the damage on her ult, whether it be by melee mods or just giving it supreme melee damage over all others during her short period of thrashing.
It would also be a bit cooler if she did some wide swipes in-between some of those punches. I mean, they are claws right? Curved nails and all? I keep imagining that she's punching on the blunt side of her claws half the time, except for one of the punches that actually looks like she utilizes the sharp end of the claw.
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If any others feel that her damage during her ultimate needs to be tweaked, post it here (or the other Valkyr feedback threads). The more players putting in their feedback, the better.
It just occurred to me, since Valkyr's ultimate is well disguised equipping of the Furax (although I have no clue what kind of stats that Furax has), it should be able to take your melee mods into account.
That would be a decent start, and then the community can see and provide feedback on where she stands in the melee damage department compared to the usual two (Loki and Ash).
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I wouldn't mind even if her actual model was literally stuck in anatomical position during her ultimate as long as her hit detection worked fine and the damage wasn't something to laugh at.
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The ultimate for Nekros should be a little bit more specialized and less similar to Nyx's chaos.
I know, the first big difference is that the enemies who are under the chaos effect can still target you, but the other advantage of Nyx's chaos is the number of targets it can affect, which is limited only by the radius of the cast.
I feel like Nekros's (is that grammatically correct?) shadow army, since they were dead at one point, have gained some sort of better combat knowledge by talking with the other deads, and because of that, they should be a strong elite squad of shadows (higher level than the ones you killed, and better AI for the love of god).
That would make slapping on Blind Rage and Focus worth it, since you won't be summoning 14 shadow dummies, and instead 14 things that can only appear in your nightmares.
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the only thing i can think of thats similar to Valkyrs ults is the Psycho from Borderlands 2 action skill which limits him to "melee" but hes a freaken badass with his buzz axe thats an example on a melee only skill that works. Hits like a truck, reduces incoming damage, kills grant full HP recovery (this can be a good or a bad thing depending on situation) this should be how valkyr was done or inspired by
She doesn't need any ridiculous HP recovery skills. The setup I have in mind right now allows me to sustain easily and still keep Focus + Blind Rage on, and Narrow Minded.
I get what you're saying though, Krieg definitely fits the bill for the berserker role more than Valkyr, but those are two completely different games.
I absolutely pray someone from DE sees this post and relays it to whoever handles the numbers on Valkyr, because she's really not too far from being a really good Berserker oriented melee Frame.
Like, literally, just enough so that her forced-into melee form (it's her ULTIMATE, I just want to keep pointing this out) doesn't make her lose DPS to a cloaking Loki going full ninja lawn mower status.
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Why do you care about my opinions so much?
Its a game, so stop caring and enjoy.
I was under the assumption posting in feedback meant that we have to take your opinion into account.
Also, Loki is literally an invisible lawn mower that rips through all the high level stuff and can disarm the feeble weeds if need be.
He may not have the upfront damage of the nuking frames, but he scales tremendously hard with good melee weapons.
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The melee bug is also a problem.
But again, I'll be a broken record here, her melee damage during her ultimate is not well done.
At the very least, her ultimate should take melee mods into account from your melee weapon.
I wouldn't compare her Ultimate to Loki and Ash's melee damage if it wasn't for the fact she is forced into a melee-only form in her ultimate.
All other frames can still shoot after casting their abilities, so they always have the help of their highly modded weapons.
Valkyr, for lack of a better term, gimps herself in order to gain survivability and low damage output.
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After the event is over and location is revealed.
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Hit detection wouldn't be bad, but I was hoping they would fix the viability issue first.
She's meh at the moment for viability, but she could be SO much more.
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Although I appreciate the discussion on health regain, this thread is about the her damage output as an Ultimate, and the risk vs reward factors that come with it.
Currently, her ultimate is technically within the same damage range as other utimates, but what makes her ultimate different is that she is one of the only frames that get punished if she can't kill all the targets within a certain time.
What you can accomplish with Valkyr in her current state using her ultimate can be similarly done with a Loki and Invisibility and a decent melee weapon, let's not forget Loki's invisibility costs only 50 energy without streamline.
Her health regen issue can be solved with Equilibrium, and finding the energy orbs to replenish her isn't too difficult.
I actually find most of her kit to be good EXCEPT for the damage.
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Where is Valkyr for comparison? All I see is loki with Galatine and Dual Ichors...
There.
I looked at your guide too, to make sure I got the mods needed to increase her melee damage.
Blind rage and Focus were used.
Fully modded Ichors with the corrosive element combo since Phorid has armor apparently.
Even if the corrosive element was the wrong element type to use on him, I used that same Ichor set up on my Loki.
I don't know what else to say, at her current stage, she's just a angry kid in a ball pit, not a Berserker.
But that's my ONLY gripe about her. It's just her damage during her Ultimate is not doing her ANY justice.
Everything else about her is cool and fun.
I didn't see any 4k hits that you mentioned earlier, except on trash mobs at the moment.
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Maybe I've modded my Valkyr wrong, but I'll upload footage using Phorid as a test dummy soon.
Here's the link to the video:
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Her Ultimate does less damage than a melee Loki or melee Ash, perhaps just melee weapons in general. Risk vs Reward are not proportional. Higher level enemies, less incentive to use her ultimate because her damage output is laughable and the risk of dying due to not being to take out enemies quick enough is too high.
Her utlimate looks like a ferocious berserker rage, but what we really have is just an angry kid in a ball pit.
Doesn't help that she doesn't have knockdown immunity and her melee bugs out if used multiple times or knocked down.
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The fact that they made her ultimate a melee-only mode with punishment if the enemies don't die should make her melee damage be better than what other Frames can put out with a Galatine or ichors (not including the glitched crits).
Look at it this way.
There is no risk to using any other frames ultimate generally on higher level enemies. There isn't too much risk vs reward
Valkyr's ultimate is unique in that fact that there is a risk vs reward factor, but there lies the problem. Her ultimate is more risk than reward the higher up we go.
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Alright, so CC immunity and melee damage that's actually worth calling an ultimate.
I find my Loki with 225 hp/shields more terrifying at the moment in terms of melee damage. (Ash too since smokescreen also grants crazy melee damage multipliers)
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The reason why I want to address this immediately is because when this Alad V hunt is over and people start building her, then playing her, DE is in for a headache that they can prevent right now.
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I'm pretty sure they'll fix this by the next hotfix.
But I'm dying to know, is there any difference in the charge damage, charge speed, or anything between the Glaives?
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Major props to DE for the skills and how they look.
Not so much on the whole balancing department again, but I'm fine with that since I expect it at this point, and that's why we have feedback.
As of now Valkyr's Ultimate allows her to essentially go into a melee only berserk, while being invulnerable for a short period of time.
That's cool and all for an ultimate.
BUT there's this tiny issue I see here.
Loki with Invisibility has pseudo invuln (which I don't mind), and his melee damage output FAR exceeds Valkyr's ULTIMATE ability.
For an ultimate that forces her to kill as many of the enemies within the radius before the invulnerability wears off and she takes the damage that she absorbed, you would think that they gave you the tools to do the job.
Her melee damage during the period of time should FAR surpass any other melee builds, because it's her ULTIMATE. I mean, while it's cool looking and all, I'd rather use Loki with ichors or galatine at the moment.
VIDEO PROOF:
(Loki with Dual Ichors and Galatine)(Valkyr with the SAME Dual Ichors) (Her level is 12, but that doesn't change her damage during her ultimate)I'm honestly surprised not a lot of people are worried about this.
tl;dr Buff Valkyr's ultimate (her melee damage), it pales in comparison with actual melee builds. Needs to actually feel like an ULTIMATE. She's currently just an angry kid in a ball pit.
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Posted · Edited by Ravtek
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