(PSN)Dualisacat
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Posts posted by (PSN)Dualisacat
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To put this really simply: Mesa takes the fun out of the game. Standing there and holding down a button is not only monotonous and unrewarding, but it completely invalidates the rest of your team and lowers the bar for how far you want to go in a game because it's "easier" to just cruise with Mesa. Playing T3/T4 Defense, you almost exclusively see people asking for Frost Prime, Mesa, and Greedy Mag (now EV Trinity) with a fast Nova or or Mirage with Total Eclipse. The entire party just stands there while the Mesa kills everything. You also see this in popular forms of farming like on Draco, but with a slightly different set-up.
Go against this meta, and you're often asked why you would do that. It's awful and it makes it harder to play the game way it was meant to be played: by actually moving around and doing things. Almost nobody goes beyond wave 20 in these game types anymore, and almost nobody wants to because it is so much easier to just cruise to rewards abusing this dumb set-up. It's not that she's overpowered, it's that she's automatic. Her power drops off very sharply in late game and she becomes almost useless compared to other frames, but you almost never see late game anymore because of this stupid set-up.
If you want rewards so badly that you're willing to not play the game and turn yourself into a stationary, automatic, aimbot turret just to get them for hours a day, every day, maybe you shouldn't be playing video games? Why not go spend your cash on roulette wheels or play poker, for Christ's sake. Do something more exciting than stand there and watch numbers go higher.
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Tried my best! :)
EDIT: Uploaded a larger version (uploading PS4 screenshots is tricky! Twitter reduces the size a lot)
Double EDIT:
In case we're able to do cropped screenshots, then I'd like to go ahead and submit this as an alternative (if we're going full size, please default to the one above)
THIRD EDIT:
No photoshop or manipulation of ANY kind was used in my pic, and to re-iterate, the second picture is cropped and I'm only suggesting it be for the contest (I'm aware we're allowed only one entry) if we're allowed to crop (it is not manipulated in any way, either. Yes, with the proper lighting you can get the Pyra Prime Syandana, Targis Prime shoulders and Obex to all do those neat things and look that rad while using channeling).
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I... I tried going back down into the bottom level of my liset.
Help.
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I have no idea how they got there, but I think they're going to end my life, please send help.
I burned an effigy of Baro Ki'Teer in my dojo last night at midnight and I think he is trying to kill me. He has powers beyond your imagination, he is your most real nightmare.
I'm afraid I'm going to wake up with my prized Kubrow's head underneath my sheets, screaming in terror. I don't know what I can do.
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You're a horribly uninformed player. You obviously don't understand anything beyond OP CC or damage nuke.
The argument "they can't do anything that another frame can't do better" is a short sighted argument only used when you have nothing to back up claims.
It's the combination of abilities that make a frame, not just the strength of one. Mesa has a unique combination of abilities that isn't easily replicated by other frames. Same goes for most if the frames. Mag isn't the best damage dealer or CC, b but it's the combination of her powers that make her viable. She isn't just hard CC or defense.
"a short sighted argument used only when you have nothing to back up claims"
Says the person responding to someone who just wrote multiple paragraphs backing up their claims with a couple of sentences going into almost no depth. I see this so frequently done to other people on this forum, and it's one of the things that has kept me from posting for so long and to any great capacity, people constantly replying to others' detailed write-ups with something along the lines of "you're just being dismissive/you don't know what you're talking about." The stench of hypocrisy is incredibly overpowering, and I'm in very serious doubt you so much as read what I even said before even hitting "Quote" and writing up your angry little bit about how you disagree with me.
To quote myself - "Many frames have a single ability that outclass Mesa's entire repertoire of abilities, and then often have abilities on top of those to make them considerably better (and a lot more fun to play)."
I never said it's a single ability that makes these frames, but that a single one of those frames' abilities ends up being more useful than all of Mesa's working in tandem. Let's look at a frame with two abilities that outdo Mesa's entire four. With Mirage's 1 and 3 active, I am
- More powerful than about anything that can be done with ballistic battery, and much more consistently.
- Much stronger than if I'm lucky enough to have shooting gallery on me with better crowd control.
- Better defended than Shatter Shield if I'm in shadow, and possibly even better in light because the clones are distracting shots away from me rather than hoping my buff is big enough to make their damage negligible.
- More thorough destruction than Peacemaker anywhere past a few rounds or minutes into high level endless content.
Mesa's so-called diversity doesn't add up to how much Mirage can top all things she does but efficiently farm lower-end or early endless content with Peacemaker, and she adds very little to a team because her abilities are all pretty selfish (aside from the ever capricious shooting gallery). Beyond that, Mesa's abilities are kind of boring. Charge a shot up, get a defensive buff, stand still and do The Matrix poses. Wow. I'm really enjoying myself. At least when I play as Mirage I have hilariously quick rolls, faster sprint and incredible parkour boosts, with Mesa I can *reads wiki* oh, I can reload a pistol a little faster...?
I think you might *speaks in a really hushed whisper* actually be the real uninformed player who doesn't understand how to play the game. Wait, I might not be in the spirit of the forum yet, should I end this with a meme image?
(Do you see how childish and petty acting this way is? Or maybe you'd like to ignore me and just continue posting your threats to quit or petty snipes at other players? Oh wait, that's right, there's an ignore system)
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I sort of agree on your other points but these rub me the wrong way.
1) Having just gotten Mag Prime, yes Bullet Attractor is situational but so is the situation of a level 40+ Parasitic Eximus bearing on your team surrounded by a cloud of mooks. It's perfect for that, and is fine on top of all projectiles dealing bonus damage to the target.
2) Ballistic Battery is not useless. It's free damage that scales off power strength. It's perfect for her.
If you had said that Shooting Gallery was useless I'd be more inclined to agree since it jumps from player to player at random. But Mesa is perfect the way she is.
3) Rip Line can be used to skip parkour segments, pull allies, tear priority targets from a crowd, or be used in conjunction with Heavy Impact. Also, it's fun.
4) Tesla is also fun, and the augment is killer against Infested. Damage could use a tiny buff but eh.
5) Dive Bomb scales off power strength and time spent falling. It scales quickly. Heavy Impact is a perfect synergy for this ability, making it good for dropping into a horde of weaker or for weakening dudes.
6) Contagion...doesn't really feel good. It I wanted toxic damage on a melee weapon I'd bring it. I agree it is pretty limited, however...
Venom is Saryn's best ability. In fact, Venom is one of the best abilities in Warframe.
It deals Viral damage (!), spreads from the target enemy to ANYTHING hostile nearby, and will continue to spread for the length of the ability duration which should be high on Saryn for that purpose.
During that time it deals Viral procs. Saying Venom is useless is completely false.
There are few 'useless' abilities. Excalibur's Super Jump--despite being fun--is a little useless. Melee weapons can provide the same effect without having to bother with parkour. That's the only one I can think of that has no real applications in either the situation they are designed for or otherwise.
Oh and Mesa is not just for low-level farming, she's one of the best high-level performers out there. Just saying.
- You just got Mag Prime? As in just got her? This is going to make me call into suspicion about how much time you've put into the game, and how much you've actually played some of these frames. I don't mean to be that jerk calling seniority or anything like that, but time input is a huge, huge part of understanding what works and what doesn't in the wide variety of encounters the game is going to put you into.
- I am seriously sticking with Ballistic Battery being nearly useless (and also a very boring ability). It's a small damage boost to a single shot that requires you to go out of your way to cast it to build that damage up. It's distracting and the pay-off is almost entirely negligible on most weapons, particularly those most commonly used in late void (super powerful automatic weapons). The casting time alone costs more time than damage you would deal just holding a trigger down on most weapons. If you're rocking a Vectis or Dread or something, sure, you can make your number a lot bigger, and then the use becomes conceivable, but that's pretty restrictive for a power to be conceivably useful, eh?
- Rip line is fun. I said I liked it at least twice in the thread, now. I just think it should be a lot cheaper, the 25 energy cost is pretty ridiculous for something less mobile than tail wind, worm hole, speed, etc. Valkyr synergizes poorly with energy effeciency and you usually want to cast this thing a lot of times consecutively for maximum enjoyment, but it's so, so not worth a mod slot because all it does otherwise is annoy your friends and yank an enemy out of a crowd.
- Why are people arguing Tesla is good? I am so baffled by this. Wow, it electric procs and stuns enemies. Wanna know what else stuns enemies? Bastille and vortex. And they do it a hell of a lot better and are generally on Vaubans modded to spam those things to the point where the idea of casting tesla is just like "hey I can put a lot of silly visual clutter on the screen, I guess this is entertaining." I have never seen a Vauban try to use tesla seriously, or maybe I did and it was so ineffective I couldn't notice. Someone please show me a video with how on earth this can be useful when you have vortex and bastille, abilities you can reliably stun more enemies with over wider distances for basically no cost when modded with an iota of sensibility.
- How is Venom better than a gun with viral procs? How? Please explain this to me, or better yet show it to me in any demonstrated video. Viral/Radiation is the best combo for the void and grineer right now, and if you're desperate for viral procs, you can just shoot enemies and deal damage while dealing viral procs instead of wasting energy by casting this (and stopping firing while doing so). Saryn when properly modded for miasma can deal thousands of damage to all enemies in a 35 meter radius through shields while also stunning them briefly for your teammates.
Miasma builds are insanely killer up to 40 minutes in even T4S when properly modded (though you do need a gun dealing radiation to deal with bombards effectively, not to mention to clear nullifier bubbles), and that's often when most parties start getting bored and extract. I have never once played a Saryn and gone that far without dealing more damage than my teammates, and even tend to get the most damage delt up to 60 minutes. Beyond that, you've got to wonder what on earth you're using Saryn for, anyway, she's just not particularly built for very, very long endless. Even when Miasma's thousands of damage pale in comparison to how much you could be dealing with viral procs mega late game, the stun is still useful, while venom lacks that utility and just does what your guns probably already do better.
- Mesa is bad. Anything you want her to do, another frame does better. She is not "useless" in the sense that you can't do anything with her (she does some things alright!), she is useless in the sense that she is made obsolete by being outperformed by another frame on every sense you could find her useful except early on in defense modes where she has a good vantage point and can out perform Excal and Saryn's ultra nuking via range.
Excal and Saryn ultimately deal more damage with their ults and much more quickly due to being able to hit multiple enemies at once. Mesa's ult falls off hard and very quickly against particularly high level or high priority enemies.
Mirage is a much better buffmonster. So is Rhino, even. Her offensive buff is incredibly mediocre and random and her defensive buff is pretty nice, I guess, but doesn't shield her from melee (playing more into how that ult ain't so great, really). Mirage can not only enter shadow and have just as much defensive buff, but also has dopplegangers distracting fire away from her fairly reliably. The dopplegangers also add tremendous offensive utility, and the defensive buff she has can be turned into a MONSTROUS 500%+ buff pretty easily (one that can spread to the entire team if you're doing a camping strategy, which makes her incredible). Rhino's Roar is better than her offensive and defensive buff put together just by nature of it effecting your team, too.
Other frames are basically better at buffing by nature of how their abilities operate, too. Nova's Molecular Prime is more useful than all of Mesa's abilities wound into one, Trinity can shield and heal the entire team, Banshee's Sonar (especially with its augment) basically lets you rock over 1000% damage (up to 1400%!!!!) on every single enemy with your entire team, Valkyr's Hysteria makes her invincible and works wonders for making her an anchor to revive your team, Frost's snow globe can shield the whole team and a defensive objective and slow or freeze enemies that enter it, so on and so forth. Many frames have a single ability that outclass Mesa's entire repertoire of abilities, and then often have abilities on top of those to make them considerably better (and a lot more fun to play).
Mesa looks amazing and is incredibly stylish, but she is a frame I never want on my team and never, ever see rise above becoming an anchor when I do play with her (which is often). She consistently gets least or close to least damage, revives, etc. She's just not more useful than other frames with high utility in how they perform, which is most of them. Any role she can fill I can perform better with multiple other frames. I guess if the combo she does with Limbo still works, there's that, though?? But that is so cheap and so boring and so obviously something the devs don't intend for the players to do. I'm almost certain something was done about that, but if it's still in the game, well, I guess she does have some purpose greater than a few other frames at something.
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Limbo is maybe the most complex frame to play well in the game, and I highly applaud that. He's probably one of the most involved and thoughtfully designed frames, and you can even play him extremely well on survival if you know what you're doing.
Thing is, I don't. I can't play him. He is the one, and I do mean the -one- frame I feel like I don't understand how to play well. I've been able to play roughly every frame as well as I've seen others play them in my very near 1,000 hours on this game, but I just don't "get" what I'm supposed to do. I don't even accurately know where to tier him, because it's so rare you see a good Limbo player despite the fact they can be an invaluable addition to a team.
He can turn players invincible before they die, pop a bubble that everyone can do extra damage in to keep them safe and then toggle it off when everyone is ready to go again, keep himself safe to pull a clutch revive, very easily isolate a hugely threatening eximus unit in 60m+ survivals, etc. It's like, I get the idea of how to play him, but I can't execute it, the cues of when to do everything he can do so well are not super obvious to me, especially when and where it's most useful to pop a cataclysm and what size I should focus on having it for the appropriate gametype.
Again, I haven't played him a lot, but unlike Ember, Mesa or Hydroid, which I always see becoming dead weights late in endless modes, some Limbo players have been the glue that has held teams I've been on together.
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Zephyr's Turbulence. It would be a very good ability if it wasn't bugged.
Aw man, yeah, tell me about this one. I used to play Zephyr a lot more often, but Turbulence straight up not working has had me leaving her behind for quite a while. It's an ability which I always assume they're working on, though, which is why I didn't bring it up.
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Posting to say I upvoted your last post, Bobtm. I appreciate you discussing this with me a lot, and I think we've both made our points, for the most part.
I feel like a lot of the discourse that takes place over the game is whether everything should be brought down to a reasonable level of balance, or if we should just build on this shaky jenga tower of overpowered shenanigans. I admittedly lean more toward the latter in a lot of instances, but that's mostly because I believe at this point in the game's lifespan, it's become so heavily built on those shenanigans that they're almost fundamental to the experience. Before anyone reading this goes "lol you're just press 4 to win" or even more condescendingly brings up I play on console (hilarious, I must be neanderthal), my most played frame is Volt, who I don't even ult with and have mostly used gimmicky speed builds with (example, my video:
).Abilities are -mostly- something I'm okay with right now, honestly. I just felt like something could be done about those I listed to bring them up, particularly with frames like Ember or Mesa who really taper off in late endless modes. I love about every frame in the game on a conceptual or artistic level, I just feel like some are obviously better for a multitude of situations than others. Ember is clearly meant to be a beast against infested, but infested are easier to fight against using so many other frames with higher utility on their abilities (Nova, Vauban, Banshee, etc.), and their toughest units (the only things that are going to be giving you trouble, anyway) are often resistant to fire.
A more ideal and thoughtful solution to making Ember more viable would be to balance how fire deals damage, have enemies scale in a more intelligent way than raising their armor as missions go on, fix abilities on other frames that makes them overpowered, etc. - but it's a lot easier to just say "gosh abilities like fireball are bad, why not make them something else that keeps up with everyone else's crazy abilities?" Fire, right now, is basically the impact damage of elemental damage types. It just doesn't end up being useful at all as the game goes on, and this is probably Ember's most fundamental fault.
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Well... no Hallowed ground?
It gets rid of procs and can be useful! If you disagree, feel free to say why, this thread isn't about me, it's about getting all our ideas out there.
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I'll chalk the initial discrepency there up to wording. When I see stuff like "almost useless abilities like slash dash that need to be changed significantly or basically entirely useless or inappropriate abilities" it hits home in an area of "I want them gone" specifically due to the nature of the abilities you used as an example. Slash Dash is getting very, very heavily changed and Super Jump is being entirely removed. Basially that's why I took your post to be of that nature. I do apologize for that misunderstanding.
As for the other part, yeah disagreements are just par for the course. They just happen worse in these types of threads since, due to the overarching nature of the abilities being questioned, you're going to have fewer and fewer folks who's see the ideas collectively agreeable. It's not uncommon to find groups of players who share your views on one or two abilities. It's incredibly rare to find players who share your views on every single ability. My note here was just along the lines of "this probably won't end well" and all that. That's just how these types of threads play out in most every case.
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To actually go into more detail now, of course now also taking note that you're not effectively saying everyone of these abilities doesn't belong in the game; There are some very specific cases where I heavily disagree with what you're saying in terms of ability use, in that these abilities don't even need tweaks. Of course that isn't to say that they are forever concrete and can't ever be changed ever, but there's a world of difference in the grey area between need/want and all that subjective goodness.
- Fireball - This ability is not even slightly bad, it's more an ability that speaks to the nature of all that is really, really jacked up with the balancing in Warframe at the moment. Anything that deals damage and isn't an AoE is considered (by lots of folks) to be entirely useless and that's really not the case. Fireball is a pretty reliable damage type 1, and becomes surprisingly strong with the right setup. Fireball can do a lot of work on its own. It isn't its fault that ults are infinitely dirt cheap and spammable forever without drawback.
- Tidal Surge - There's not a lot to say here, we as players shouldn't expect a super long stun on a simple ability that speaks to numerous realms of play. The only real killer for Tidal Surge is that it, alike all current "dash" moves, has its travel distance controlled by Duration mods. This is an issue as Hydroid can be build to heavily emphasize a negative Duration build. Basically it's hard to play to Tidal Surge's strong suit due to the nature of Hydroid.
- Ballistic Battery - This one is a lot like Fireball really. When you get up into late game stuff, knowing you can guaranteed oneshot any individual target is a nice thing to keep in the pocket. Paramounted by the "ready" cast having no animation, and it's a fine ability indeed. It shines incredibly at bursting down something with a nightmarish amount of damage.
- Smite - This ability too sort of speaks to the same realm that Fireball does. Unlike with Oberon's ult (the name of which escapes me) it can be used in supplement to current actions. Basically it's about a playstyle variation in that way. A lot of times the ults generally feel... well dumb for lack of a better word. Having a swift and snappy on command stun with extra effects is very much nice and reliable. This skill has a good deal of effective uses.
- Venom - There's not much needed to be explained here, having a very high chance to Viral proc everyone and their grandma can be a great boon when foes become increasingly armored at later play. Venom is definitely a very worthwhile ability, especially considering it's a 1.
- Ripline - This one is funny in a way, but it speaks to alternate approaches to a situation. Being able to ragdoll an enemy swiftly is welcome too of course. Beyond the obtuse usability, Ripline also means that Valkyr can always deal damage at range, even if in melee mode or while in Hysteria.
- Overload - Probably the most contential of my list here, as a lot of folks outright dislike this skill. Overload is basically just a lot, and I do mean a lot, trickier to utilize when compared to other ults, damage ones especially so. Due to how it deals damage, it can actually hit harder than anything except Bladestorm in a single cast. This is due to the nature of electrical damage, in that its proc is (one of the only) AoE proc types. Cluster a bunch of foes up into a small area, and watch them cook one another on eachothers' AoE spurts. Beyond the damage side, Overload acts as a very wide range small stun. Due to the casting animation this stun is less usable to the Volt using it, but its a nice way to give allies breathing room should something go awry.
As an important note; Just because something isn't listed above, doesn't mean I think its bad (exampe; Tesla). It's just possibly one that I feel could use some minor tweaks at most. Of course not counting above where I already clarified which abilities I do also find to be quite useless, Psychic Bolts (without Augment), Slight of Hand, and Contagion. To think on what to change with them, it's a bit tricky. The idea behind each makes sense, but they just don't particularly pan out in a feasible way during real gameplay. I could try and come up with stuff, but this post has already droned on long enough for its own good. Possibly too long actually as it's hard to guess how big it'll look when the list function does its thing.
"They just happen worse in these types of threads since, due to the overarching nature of the abilities being questioned, you're going to have fewer and fewer folks who's see the ideas collectively agreeable. It's not uncommon to find groups of players who share your views on one or two abilities. It's incredibly rare to find players who share your views on every single ability. My note here was just along the lines of "this probably won't end well" and all that. That's just how these types of threads play out in most every case."
- You're absolutely right on calling this. I simply meant to get the ball of discussion rolling with the thread, but I forget how people on forums prefer getting angry and being petty to individuals rather than discussing the subject at any meaningful length. I just wanted to set what I consider a pretty popular topic! Not make a bunch of people mad because I stepped on their frame's toe.
A lot of these abilities are ones you could make useful, or you could just, I don't know, use a number of better things. A friend of mine said her standard for an ability being considered obsolete is that if it's more useful to fire your weapon, why even have it in the game? I generally tend to agree with this. A lot of these abilities would be balanced in an ideal Warframe where everything else isn't so unbalanced and crazy useful, but the fact is that Warframe isn't and probably is never going to be.
Let me go into some more depth on each ability you mentioned disagreeing with.
Fireball - This, ideally, would be a useful ability, but the fact of the matter is that it's not even as useful as firing your gun in almost any situation. If I can kill faster with my gun and create more useful procs with it, what is the point of this ability, or several of the basic abilities on a lot of caster frames? I agree with your last statement on this one, but the reality is that ults are never going to be better balanced and it's easier to get rid of or change low level abilities like this, shock, smite, etc. You can use this ability, but I have no idea why anyone would unless deliberately handicapping themselves to force themselves to find the ability useful.
I'm of a similar opinion with most of these abilities I've criticized... Yeah, they can be useful, can, but they don't compliment most playstyles that don't deliberately go out of their way to adapt them and just act as a distraction from firing your more powerful and versatile weapons. If weapons were better balanced, this could be an interesting, occasional cast on heavier targets to soften them up, but the state of the game right now is "why even use it when I can just point and click with my more powerful automatic weapon that I barely even need to aim?" Even the current slash dash and super jump have their situational uses, but I'm all for them being changed/removed in favor of more interesting alternatives.
Tidal Surge - Like you said, Hydroid is rarely specced for this, and even when he is, it's mostly just a faster travel ability. In most situations, you can just copter with a melee weapon at a higher speed for a longer distance, thus making this ability nearly obsolete no matter how you do it. If you don't have a high speed melee weapon and if your Hydroid is specced for duration this ability can be used, sure, but those are two massive "if's" that are almost never met unless you're trying to meet them.
Ballistic Battery - Like with fireball, the time it takes to actually press the button twice to even ready this up is less than the damage it will usually deal with most weapons. The set-up is more of a chore than just unloading continuous fire on an enemy, and it's an ability that would be fine in a more balanced game or ideal context, but that's not what we're looking at. This would be nice if the ability were a toggle that passively charged up a more powerful shot or something, but as it stands, it takes longer to go out of your way to push a button than it does help how much damage you deal.
Smite - Again, like fireball. My gun is more powerful, why go out of my way to use an ability less useful than my weapon?
Venom - If I already have Viral procs on my weapons (which I do), why go out of my way to use this? I'll admit I've not used venom worth a lick in a long time, and I could be totally misjudging how many enemies it can hit.
Ripline - I like this ability, I understand the situations you can use it in, but it's very weak and very situational for anything other than movement and its movement options pale compared to worm hole, speed, etc.. I just feel like it should have a lowered energy cost or, I don't know, something? It's a really unique travel ability and I'd like to use it more often.
Overload - Again, it "can" be neat, but that's so rare. Most volt builds use Narrow minded and don't bother with stretch or overextended, too, making this even less useful on top of its already very situational usefulness. Popping this thing late in an endless mode even with range extensions is basically like putting a target on yourself and you're dead before the animation is over. If you're in an enclosed space and if if you've not modded your volt for duration and if there are electronics nearby, this can possibly be better than firing your gun, but that's so, so, so situational and almost never happens.
Most of these abilities' uses are situational, and even in the ideal situation are not at all as good as your weapon or abilities on other frames. They require a lot of "if's" before you get them to a point where they're valuable, and just don't flow well with the current state of the game. I agree you could certainly argue that it's more that everything else is unbalanced and OP than they are weak, but that still makes them comparatively near-useless.
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Not sure if it was a mistake or intentional. Just curious wheres Nekro?
I've already posted about Archwing reworks lol :)
I personally feel all of Nekros' abilities are good. Again, this is a topic to get the ball rolling for everyone to talk about how they feel, not everyone to go "I agree/disagree with OP" and for that to dominate the conversation as everyone jumps on me for the one thing I said that ticked them off and made them post a stupid meme image.
Right now, Mesa is mostly only good for low level farming.
Sorry, I really think Mesa is bad! Her ult is useless in high level or late-endless content, shooting gallery is one of the worst offensive buffs in the game and you can't even control who it is going to randomly fly between, ballistic battery is extremely situational and nearly useless, and shatter shield is her one good ability. Other frames do what she does better and help the team out significantly more. 30 minutes into a T4 survival and the only ability Mesa has that is even a little useful is shatter shield, and that could be a Nova casting molecular prime, Trinity casting energy vampire and blessing, Banshee casting sound quake and sonar, Rhino casting roar and iron skin, etc.
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I said reconsidered or possibly replaced, not that I want to replace all of these. In many instances I mention ways I would like to see the ability reworked, if possible.
Any time anyone says something on this forum, someone disagrees, usually angrily. I don't care, I'm just getting my thoughts out there - people are free to write their own in the topic. It's a thread for feedback, not my ideas being propelled above everyone's else's, I'm just getting the ball rolling.
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With Excalibur's upcoming changes, let's consider other frames that have almost useless (in pve, where the game actually matters) abilities like slash dash that need to be changed significantly or basically entirely useless or inappropriate abilities like super jump (secretly, I liked super jump, but let's be honest about it, it's not so hot) that could be replaced entirely.
Ember's Fireball. Ember is already arguably the worst frame in the entire game since Hydroid got Pilfering Swarm. Please get rid of this.
Hydroid's Tidal Surge. At least make it stun enemies for a while longer or something.
Mag's Bullet Attractor. Sure, this ability is theoretically useful and was fun waaaay back in the day to kill bosses super quickly with if you had a friend using Excalibur, but c'mon. It's bad and even more situational than Excal's super jump.
Mesa's Ballistic Battery. Right now, Mesa is mostly only good for low level farming. Yeah, shatter shield is a good defensive buff, but there are way better tanky frames and they often have more utlity, too. Ballistic battery is basically only useful for what, Torid? I guess? I mean you can use it, sure, but it's a waste of an ability. While we're at it, please think about rebalancing shooting gallery to maybe buff all teammates at once. Mesa is one of the coolest looking frames but everything she does, another frame does better.
Mirage's Sleight of Hand. Don't even PRETEND you don't know how situational and almost entirely useless this is. The augment is a waste of a slot to give that ability even conceivable usefulness that should have already been innate to it. To be fair, at least Mirage's other 3 abilities are all respectively amazing.
Nyx's Psychic Bolts. This ability is almost incomprehensibly bad and the augment really doesn't do enough to mitigate that. It's also one of Nyx's only two abilities boosted by power strength (and absorb is only mildly affected by it), something most builds neglect because her good abilities are enhanced by overextended (which lowers power strength even further).
Oberon's Smite. Wow, I can cast his ult's effects only weaker on a single target. I guess being able to use it mid-reload is neat???
Rhino's Charge. Please do the thing you're doing to Excal's Slash Dash with this, it's useless as-is unless you're modded for duration (probably for roar) and then it's only really a movement accelerator. Also consider making Roar a little more viable? That duration is so low that most Rhino players just opt to ignore it and focus on modding iron skin and stomp which makes them useless. Rhino can be an okay frame in high level stuff but almost everyone plays him the same awful way and he always becomes a huge anchor for the team. Roar is already inferior enough to other frame's buffs like Nova's molecular prime or Banshee's sonar.
Saryn's Contagion and Venom. Contagion is hilariously useless and Venom has been useless for over a year. Both of these abilities are almost never used by anyone actually playing a decent Saryn and need to be reconsidered entirely.
Trinity's Well of Life. Seriously, her ult already heals enough, this ability is almost useless unless you've got a REALLY REALLY dangerous eximus unit and need to lock him down but already have some other enemy Energy Vampired.
Valkyr's Rip Line. I love this ability, but I can't use it on my Valkyr builds because I don't have room for efficiency mods and despite how fun traveling with it can be, it just consumes too much energy. The augment mod for this one seriously should have just been an innate quality of this ability and is absolutely not worth an entire slot that would better be spent on nearly anything else. Valkyr is already a relatively low-tiered frame (at least since nullifiers happened), why not give her a cheaper or even free movement option?
Vauban's Tesla. Yeah, sure the augment mod makes these thing kill super low level enemies, I guess? *twirls finger in air*
Volt's Overload. Okay, maybe don't get rid of this, but for the love of all that is holy increase the range and damage and cast time or something. No other of Volt's abilities benefit from natural talent, so it's not worth considering on him, yet that's almost the only way to make you not be a giant glowing target for the enemies while casting this. It's the worst damage ult, and damage ults already have super harsh drop-offs in high level or late-endless content.
Zephyr's Dive Bomb. Another instance of the augment mod being something the ability should have innately. Dive Bomb is just a way to get back down to the ground quickly, right now, it does very little damage and almost never kills anything unless you go out of your way to do so (which is wasteful).
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I'm excited about the changes, but I'm still sore over that old radial blind nerf from a while back. It's called radial blind, not line of sight blind. I mean c'mon, this was the only thing keeping him viable in high level void stuff. Right now, the current Excal is REALLY pushed toward melee, but there are better melee frames who don't even have melee-centric abilities like Volt, who is better at melee purely by virtue of the huge speed increase he can bring. My problem isn't that Excalibur is being made melee-centric, lately, it's that he absolutely sucks at it becuase he can't tank a few hits and his augments are hilariously useless (doubly so considering they take up a slot) and should be innate to his abilities.
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I like the idea of weapons being made out of older weapons a lot. It's neat.
However, ideas like requiring a full Dual Kama to build the new soma hatchets is completely insane and ridiculously wasteful and grindy. That's a minimum of 48 hours and 10 neural sensors just to try the new weapon, and the lack of any polarity slot on it is basically criminal.
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I would much rather have a blueprint that somehow combines forma.
like forma lvl 2 requires 2 forma's and lets you change 2 polarities.
Forma lvl 3 allows 3 polarity changes.
This would drasticly reduce the time needed to relevel all those weapons, while keeping the forma as a cost.
I like this idea. Players still need to acquire the necessary materials, but this takes a lot of the really tedious grind out of the equation. Every time I want to try out a new weapon on a serious level, I'm really sick of having to spending a day grinding on whatever the best EXP map currently is as I level it to max 5 or so times. This game is so full of neat weapons and it's very irritating to have collected all the resources necessary to make lower tier weapons viable but having to dump even more time into the game just to be able to have a little fun with them.
I also like the idea of a very high mastery rank "gate" to these super forma. A lot of us sitting at whatever the highest mastery is have earned our keep, how about letting us use forma like these to bypass a grind we've done a million times, already?
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I feel like this is something we won't see feedback changing for quite some time. Due to the constant addition of new augments, DE is probably figuring out what they want to do i.e. adding slots or not at their own pace. I like the idea of a single augment slot per Warframe, but some frames benefit from augments more than others and some augments are just so useless they're only conceivably good for joke or low level builds.
Some frames don't need any augments, others need one to be competitive or in some cases, even two. When they got rid of two slots and made abilities innate, this disproportionately affected some frames more than others, and I feel like we'll see a relatively big meta shift by the addition of an augment slot, too.
For example: An augment slot won't make Saryn much more competitive. Right now, her only useful augment is regenerative molt, and most people opt to keep that out to focus on dealing damage with miasma. We would effectively see her slip slower on the meta (especially in survival, which she's already kinda bad for) as other frames get an advantage. However, an augment slot for Trinity could radically alter how she is built considering that Vampire Leech will now basically be free to tack on, provided you've forma'd her up. Realize, these are just two frames I'm picking off the top of my head.
Due to how some frames and corrupted mods work, they only need one or two of the 4 buffs focused on (energy consumption, power strength, power range, power duration) and can fit an augment in easily, while others need 3 or all 4 of those to really reach a competitive level and a particularly useful augment mod being necessary changes how you want to build them a lot. Mag's best abilities aren't affected by duration, for example, so you're free to stick on fleeting expertise with relatively zero consequence. The new crush augment mod, for example, is almost useless because it requires duration to be useful and Mag benefits so little from that in other categories that it's not worth modding her that way.
I feel like an augment slot won't be a good idea until each frame has at least one killer augment, and we're kinda still waiting for that to happen. On top of that, there's a lot to consider with how this could unbalance some particular frames more than others due to how they're built. I feel like the meta would eventually sort itself out and the game might be better for it, as it was after the changes to abilities, but it still requires a lot of thought, and I think some more augment options before it really be considered.
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Oh, wow, haven't had a Thursday update in quite a while, I had kinda forgotten they happen lol.
yayyy
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Not real sure how you came to that conclusion.....We get previews of upcoming changes both good and "bad" which allows us to stock pile, farm, build prereq stuff whatever the case may be. We get far more stable updates than PC does....Raids were pulled to ensure our update was a solid one.
We get a very, very minor upside of being prepared for an update before it hits, but it's definitely more of a huge downside compared to how frequently the PC is getting new content and how they're getting regularly instead of in roughly bi-monthly giant chunks. Sure, I've known to sell stuff on the market a little earlier or to stockpile on a few occasions before something became unavailable, I get to use E-Gate style farming a little longer (arguably this is a downside, because it's killing the game) and can cheese Hydroid's pilfering storm on Phorid while he's on Jupiter or Saturn for a ton of neural sensors or orokin cells, but I'd trade that in a split-second for continuous content instead of waiting sometimes up to 3 months for something.
My friends all play on PC, so I hear constantly about how cool new features are weeks or months in advance, and by the time I get them my friends are almost unanimously going "oh you all finally got that?" The Void trader appeared on PC about two and a half months before console, and the excitement of "what new thing is he going to bring next" is completely absent for us because we just look that far back on the PC list. It's boring, and exemplary of a lot of the new content for console players. Oh cool, we finally get that thing to almost catch us up to PC before they go on a two month update spree and we all grow stale.
Dropping updates in such huge packages inundates players with new content and takes away the joy of the little things. Instead of getting excited by waking up to a new weapon or two, it's "boy I hope the update finally hits this week so I can craft 5 weapons at once and not discover the subtleties of each of them." It's bad pacing.
The cheesy E-Gate strategy was only available for a short while on PC, but this entire update the recruit channel has been -dominated- by it on console because we get the fix so much later. This kinda ruins the game's meta and turns it into another loot farming simulator - if I wanted to play something as dull and braindead as Destiny or Borderlands, where they're almost entirely about finding new ways to cheese tons of loot instead of playing the game, I'd go play one of those.
Most of my frirends playing on PC agree with me that a lot of the fun (hell, maybe most of it) in Warframe is that the game is a developer's playground where they do whatever super neat thing they want to, and that being rough around the edges at times makes us feel like part of the process. I LIKE that Warframe is buggy and there are silly moments, and I think most long-term players appreciate how the game isn't super polished, but is brimming with more exciting content and diverse ways to play than any other F2P game out there.
Discovering bugs or capturing weird moments is a hobby for me, and I've got a youtube channel packed with silly moments I've recorded (complete with ironic or sarcastic titles) as keepsakes of these times. Warframe's biggest advantage is that it is constantly being updated with great stuff, but playing on console I only get to imagine so many things for such long periods of time that it becomes dull and exacerbating. Mind you, I love the game, I buy cosmetics constantly, I wear the shirts, I have the dang Excalibur statue, I've nearly logged 1,000 hours of playtime and am Mastery 18, ready to hit 19 when the next update hits - I play this game like it's a lifestyle and identify heavily with the idea of my character being a queer, genderfluid space ninja, but man, oh man, I am sick to absolute death of the slow updates.
Before you tell me, yes, I know that that a lot of the reasons why the updates are slow are because of Sony and their cert process, fees and ridiculous standards that Steam doesn't force, but that doesn't do much to mitigate my frustration and occasionally make me put the game down for a week or two and consider taking longer breaks.
EDIT:
Gosh dang I wrote a lot! This isn't directed at you, really, iwernecke, so please don't take it personally. I was just kinda venting. Letting off some steam. Shouting into the void and seeing if Vor called back, you might say. Sometimes it's cathartic to just dump my frustrations out. I just wish updates were more frequent, and it seems like it's never going to change and there's nothing DE can really do about it and it drives me nuts that that sometimes dampens my enthusiasm for what is probably the first time I've been able to play a game for a year and regularly go back to and enjoy it.
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Still no mention of if it's been certed or not... Probably not getting update until next week -and- without raids. Man, being a console player really isn't so great haha.
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I like that you actually have to try to co-ordinate a team before you do this one. It's nice to have an occasional, hyper-difficult challenge. For the record: I rarely play with my clan, only talk to like one person in it, and co-ordinated this just by asking in the recruit channel for people to PM me their frames before attempting. All my friends play PC, so I did have a few tips going in, but all my teammates were people I'd never played with before.
I did this with Trinity (myself, mostly for energy vampire), Nova Prime (for molecular prime), Banshee (for sonic boom and sound quake), and Loki Prime (for radial disarm with irradiating disarm augment). While this strategy did bring the cheese, we all went in with decked out Scindo Primes, too. Everyone was pretty integral to this strategy, but if you're willing to burn a whole bunch of energy restoring consumables, you could replace Trinity with a powerful ult'ing frame like Saryn, or maybe use Vauban for bastilles/vortexes, or even consider Valkyr, who can deal considerable damage when you mod the scindo for crits using her Hysteria (look up how damage is calculated to take the most advantage of this).
Here's the sigil on my Volt:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CC5lDT_W4AAKfDC.jpg:large
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ohhhhh crap crap crap he's onto me
Can We Please Leave Mesa Alone?
in General Discussion
Posted
Just quoting some harsh truths for the thread starter.