Brosephelon
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Posts posted by Brosephelon
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20 minutes ago, Cazzzz said:
You clearly don't play Ember all THAT much. The CC is indeed negligible with the rest of her kit in place but extra STACKING fire damage +Accel is never a bad thing. Leaving a hazard at choke points, particularly for a faction that takes a good lot of fire damage is also quite the plus.
Ill agree that Fireball is trash, and that is probably 'one of the worst abilities in game', simply because the rest of her kit does it better.
And also why are we complaining about WoF's energy drain? That was the intent when they said they would like people to be turning it on and off instead of just leaving it on for the duration of a mission. It accomplishes exactly what they wanted UNLESS you reconfigure your build to adjust. That's why the mod system exists, to adapt. Lmao i dont know how so many people missed the intent with that change.50% fire damage unaffected by power strength is nice I guess, sure you can put down multiple Fire Blast rings... but then you are still sitting there shooting things. Thats a lot of work, a lot of energy, just to shoot things with fire damage more. Or you can just use the Accelerant augment and get fire damage increase comparable to mulitiple Fire Blast rings, get the Accelerant fire damage vulnerability, have full mobility for themselves and their buffed allies, and get cast speed because "hey why not".
Casting one ability once with the augment, for less base energy than Fire Blast. Or casting Fire Blast 3-4 times to to get similar end results... which do you think sounds more realistic and viable? The fact that Accelerant with the augment also allows you full mobility and isn't just restricted to "choke points" takes that to entire other level of clearly Fire Blast is just trying to way to hard to swim up stream.
In Warframe generally you want enemies to flow THROUGH a choke point, you don't want to obstruct the enemies spawn/flow rate out of the choke point you want them funnelling into and through it smoothly and to simply kill them on the otherside/in it. The CC aspects of Fire Blasts ring of fire having a 100% status chance of a heat proc means if you do put it in a choke point enemies will run into it and stop for a bit. Again why do all that when you can just kill them instead?
POSSIBLY Fire Blasts full suit of effects have a potential niche usage on Derelict Defense though nobody runs that like they used to, and again just use WoF and Accelerant it will cover similar amounts of CC do more damage, and be viable to sustain energy wise without needing full sets of Arcane Energize and an energy proc weapon.
I'm not "complaining" about the energy drain changes, I'm simply stating a reality. The energy drain was increased but it was not increased by enough to have serious impact on how the frame was played. Literal worse case scenario you use an energy proc weapon to make up the difference if your build can't sustain it. My "complaint" if anything was that ultimately nothing really changed with WoF. Its still power farming low level missions, its increased damage potential doesn't change much, its reduced range doesn't change much, its energy cost did not create situations where I need to toggle it off and doesn't change much. It was a variety of number tweaks that ultimately didn't do much.
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I've played Ember for awhile after the changes now. I've tried her in Sorties, normal lower level missions, Hydron normal farming, and basically just about all sorts of normal gameplay you can think of and ultimately I feel like the changes accomplished nothing besides making her less energy efficient and causing a whole lot of uproar over not much of anything.
I'm still able to power farm Hydron with WoF, I'm still able to cruise control through a low level mission with WoF taking the vast majority of the damage/kills.
Why is this? Fundamentally this is because the WoF changes didn't actually do anything meaningful because the mod Overextended exists. You give an ability more damage and reduce its range? I put in Overextended to give it back range and reduce its damage. Its not exactly the same and it still has worse energy efficiency but ultimately I am able to accomplish very VERY similar results in practice.
I looked to the change with some optimism when I heard you'd be looking at her other abilities. Though ultimately I feel like nothing has really changed besides my mod loadout.
Fireball still does not justify its energy cost when I can just let the now even more expensive WoF do its job and kill them all the same. Fireball could literally cost zero energy, even with that I'd probably be lazy enough to just let WoF take care of things anyhow. Its an ability that cannot realistically justify its existence in the face of WoF.
Accelerant is still a great ability. There isn't really much to say here, nothing seemingly changed
Fire Blast is quiet possibly one of the worst abilities in game. I was really hoping this might get straight up replaced (maybe you have Overheat on a backup file somehwere? :D ) but alas that was not to be. Fire Blast is such a bizarre power to me, it puts down a ring of fire but it also knocks enemies back... so how am I supposed to put enemies in the ring of fire if I'm knocking enemies back and out of the ring of fire? So its a big AoE knockback/CC... why bother when I have Accelerant which is cheaper and has a larger base range, it also leaves enemies standing so they are easier to headshot. So its new tweak was to add a flat 50% fire damage to bullets shot through the ring of fire that does not scale with mods, but Ember is still a rather squishy frame so standing in a ring of fire as enemies shoot back is just asking to die you have to stay moving and using parkour stuff to reduce damage/enemy accuracy to survive (outside of just having WoF kill everything) so its not as though realistically Ember can even use this fire weapon damage buff effectively... Believe me I've tried. Fire Blast is just such an odd power, it does a few things that seem very counter intuitive or just don't seem practical in their usage especially for a squishy frame who can't just stand there. Ultimately, if I want to CC enemies around me on demand for a short duration I'm going to cast Accelerant and realistically Fire Blast is more expensive and needs to perform dramatically better to have me consider using it... the fact these two abilities step on eachothers toes to such a degree is also another problem with Fire Blast (or I guess Embers design overall).
World on Fire as I mentioned above didn't really chance much. Take out Intensify, add Overextended... profit? Well I guess not since it still costs more energy than it used to. Thats really the moral of the "changes" to me, you are still doing the same things you were before the changes you are just doing it a bit worse than before.
With all that said, instead of just breaking down the problems... how about some solutions?
I actually have a lot of ideas on how this can go depending on how indepth you want to go.
In magical christmas land where I get all my hopes and dreams.
- Heat status effects now stack damage like gas, toxin, and slash so that applying the heat status effect multiple times is more directly beneficial in terms of damage, this would be a buff to more than just Ember but since all her powers are about fire it would be a big thing for Ember. I'd say possibly trash her self damage oriented passive that exists now and replace it with allowing stacking heat procs but I'd assume that would be harder to do than simply improving the heat status effect as a baseline game wide thing.
- Passive changed from when Ember is on fire, to when Ember sets an enemy on fire. Mostly this would encourage NOT having WoF on 24/7 and provide encouragement for non-WoF centric gameplay setups. Not to mention her current passive is mostly oriented around self damage with a Javlok, and self damage setups are dumb (atleast I think so).
- If Fireball hits an enemy who is on fire, refund energy much like Nidus's ability to refund energy on his 1. Possibly even give it bonus damage for hitting a burning target.
- Accelerant remains unchanged.
- Fire Blast gets scraped entirely for a damage focused AoE ability. Remove the ring of fire, make the expanding ring with its knockdown instead do damage. If an enemy is on fire it will consume the status effect in a big burst of damage. Possibly allow it to sort of chain explode sort of like Mag's Polarize. It can't realistically out compete Accelerant as a CC/Damage augmenting power and Accelerant already fills that role anyhow see it needs to fill a different purpose fundamentally.
- World of Fire reduced burst damage, 100% status chance. Heat status effects applies by WoF scale with power strength dramatically while the base burst damage (if any, possibly just remove the burst damage) is instead very minor and doesn't scale well if at all. In effect World on Fire shifts from being a toggle on and cruise control ability into an enabler that allows Ember to have active and engaging gameplay by spamming enemies down with Fireball (who are on fire because of WoF) or incenerate groups of enemies with the new Fire Blast (who are on fire because of WoF).
Since I realize the plan for Ember is PROBABLY not to put that much work into, change core gameplay aspects like how heat procs function and so on. I guess can try again without magical christmas land influences and get to just what would effectively be number tweaks with minimal gameplay changes.
- Increase baseline durability notably armor and health. Let Ember actually consider a rage build, since we wouln't be adding any real defensive ability to her kit because we arn't making sweeping changes this is the seemingly next best thing. Consider that many frames with comparable health and armor to Ember Prime currently do have actual defensive abilities so its not unfair or unrealistic to consider.
- Add a percent health damage effect to Fireball, the only way people are going to want to cast this (outside of style points) is if it hits like a truck. Percentage health damage is the best way to give it more damage without it just one shotting all low level content. So much like Oberons Smite it should do flat damage + a percentage.
- Accelerant remains unchanged.
- Fire Blast. Remove the knockdown/knockback and ramp those numbers up hard. I think this is a bad idea personally but I am of the school of thought that the ability is basically as close to irredeemable as it gets right now and really REALLY needs some real changes.
- I honestly have no clue how to fix WoF without some sort of redesign, outside of just butchering the ability to near uselessness or making it monsterously strong. I'd really just like to refer to the above idea about WoF shifting it from burst damage to a damage over time oriented effect seems like the most reasonable and effective way to take it from a power farming tool to still being a good damage tool that isn't instantly killing everything ever in lower level missions.. it can still power farm those low level missions it will just let the enemies exist longer so people can interact with them maybe, possibly, hopefully.
TL;DR. The Ember changes seemingly changed nothing of any real relevance. Energy sustain on WoF is worse but otherwise by simply adjusting your build you can still do the same things and the "problematic" behaviors that supposedly sparked the changes are still in full swing.
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11 hours ago, OoKeNnEtHoO said:
Put in the business perspective, there is just no business case to change it.
Then lets add paid lootboxes, there is no business case not to do so. Lets add paid DLC there is no business case not do so.
This is literally the worst possible reasoning to ever do something. What is the best possible method of squeezing out a few extra dollars from the playerbase is NOT what is best for the game and gameplay purpsoes, the fact you are trying to pose for DE's financial interests instead of the interests of your fellow players is simply mind boggling if not the worst case of brown nosing ever known to mankind.
If its in the best interests of business to not make frames able to be acquired multiple times, and you believe it is your just and righteous cause to promote DE's financial interest over that of the players... then you better start promoting limited purchases on blueprints from the market, limited drops from bosses, and otherwise find ways to limit if not strictly remove a players way to acquire a frame more than once no matter the source of the frame.
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13 minutes ago, (Xbox One)MerlyBR said:
idk but how about planing your decisions before making them?
Well lets look at Limbo.
Since his release, and until his "recent" rework he was mostly bad... I'd even go so far as to say aggressively terrible. His best usage was in trolling/harassing new players, consider that for a bit the best usage of a frame was as a harassment tool.
To put that time frame into perspective, that was nearly 3 years of being useless. Someone selling Limbo during that time frame is understandable, its a realistic course of action in a game with limited inventory space.
Beyond this all frames that are not tied to quests (aka the vast majority of frames) can be reobtained without issue. There is something to say for consistency issues.
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I just want energy management to not feel tied to "things" be it Zenurik, an energy proc syndicate weapon, Arcane Energize (forget that whale bait), or some"thing" else I might have forgotten to mention.
Realistically I want more frames like Harrow and Nidus that can stand on their own as strong independent frames who don't need no "energy solution... or man. While altering every Warframe to have self sustaining energy powers based on how they are used is unrealistic ideally the energy economy in general CAN be adjusted and worked with. In the most simplistic way possible it could just mean making energy orbs drop like candy, giving everyone a passive Energy Siphon effect.
Ideally things like Zenurik should be for people who want to build with say Blind Rage, not run Streamline, and similar such things. It should be there to compensate for aggressive energy hungry builds. Though for builds that actually run streamline/efficiency mods and so on they should be rather self sustainable through normal gameplay without needing an energy crutch to rely on. Ultimately people shouldn't feel shoe horned into Zenurik just so they can use their powers, just like people shouldn't be shoe horned into running vacuum so they can loot effectively, and so on.
If someone wants to run Unairu they should feel like they are really gaining something from doing so, and their primary reaction should not be "how do I deal with the lose of energy from not running Zenurik". They don't care about the loss of melee combo from Naramon, they don't care about the damage from Madurai, they don't care about the revives and affinity from Vazarin... They care about that energy though because it directly impacts how they play and without that energy why even bother using anything else?
At this point you might say "BUT ENERGY PIZZAS!" and truly they do exist and you should use them. I have hundreds of them stockpiled and use them as needed, but at the same time they are stationary and slowly pulse out energy. This means in something like say an exterminate, fighting on the plains, or anything where simply standing in one place is not remotely viable their impact is greatly diminished if not all but removed. The concept of burning through more energy pizzas than you get the materials for in missions is also a very real problem to consider/understand as a consumable item... This presents a very clear case for why you can't/shouldn't rely on them as a replacement universal clutch.
Again I don't think Zenurik should lose Energizing Dash. I do think though that at a baseline warframes need to be less dependent on outside/third party energy sources. In and of themselves warframes should be able to atleast have the phantom of the idea of being self sufficient and sustaining themselves to some degree so long as you build for it.
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2 hours ago, Valiant said:
It hasn't been a year.
Seems like you need more patience.
Its been 10 months and a few days. If someone wants to call that a year for the sake of simplicity it should be fine.
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Mirage's Eclipse ability has been wonky on the Plains basically since their launch now.
Most of the time Eclipse is stuck in "dark mode" giving damage resist. In the middle of an open field in daytime? Yeah thats considered "dark", inside a brightly lit grineer hut? Yep thats "dark".
The only places I've been even close to "reliably" (and I use that word VERY loosely here) get the "light" mode is by sometimes being ontop of a mountain or cliff side, during daytime, at certain angles on the terrain. Yep not just on a mountain top a day, but you have to be at the "correct angle" ontop of that mountain to actually get "light" mode. What exactly is the "correct angle" hell if I could ever figure it out, but if I ran around a mountain I could see the buff icon near the health bar changing, but I could never do it consistently enough to figure out what was or wasn't triggering it.
I understanding getting Mirage to detect the proper lighting (or lack there of) for the Plains might represent a real technical challenge, especially since this has been a persistent issue since the plains has gone live over 4 months ago. Could there perhaps be a change to Mirages Eclipse ability to atleast allow Mirage to force which mode she wants in and out of the plains? Perhaps make it like Ivara Quiver where you can press and hold to change mode and simply have the strength of that particular mode be effected by how light or dark it is, such as how Octavias Amp ability is with sound?
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Ash change looks solid, I've seen lots of talk about a change like this since it was originally changed to the marking system. Seems like an overall solid setup to go with and aim for.
Atlas I'll hold judgement on, though I'm curious if his path of statues augment works with rubble.
Banshee changes as a much vaunted "nerf" actually look much more like a buff from what we saw during the stream. It still doing solid damage, still has a big-ish range, and because it makes it a non-channeled ability working with EV Trinity, Zenurik, and most other traditionally energy sources now becomes a cake walk. In other words it just seems like a good improvement unless you were super lazy.
Chroma is a mixed bag. On one hand I understand the need to fix the damage calculation issues his vex armor and being able to one shot literally anything is a bit silly. Though at the same time some of the changes don't look like they really have a deep grasp of how most min/max chromas build or why. Right now most Chromas are building for huge duration and strength this means both Blind Rage and Narrow Minded among other mods.
Which on stream they mentioned that the vex armor aura would scale with range, this means it will be effectively useless in normal gameplay without some serious changes. I'd also reference them to how Effigy (chroma's 4) does NOT scale with range but instead has set ranges that enable the usage of narrow minded without crippling range issues. I always thought this aspect of Effigy was intentional because it enabled Effigy to be used even in a traditional narrow minded build.Ideally Chroma needs more changes to really make these ideas work. Perhaps the easiest one would be to make the vex armor aura a flat 20 range and not effected by range mods (like Effigy), or also possibly allowing vex armor to be recast while active to reset the duration while keeping the buff making using narrow minded not as mandatory/valuable or atleast potentially opening up other build paths.
The changes to spectral scream seem nice, not sure it would still be a power people really focus on and use. Though the fact it can atleast justify its energy cost is a pretty big deal.
Ember just seems like the first straight nerf. Ember is trading range AND energy for extra damage. If she was simply trading one of those things at a more dramatic price I could see it working. For instance so she turns on 4 it starts at less damage than now but its cost and damage ramp up over time to maybe 2-3x as much damage as now with the range unaffected. So its an ability you don't turn on and leave on but instead use to help burn through big groups of enemies sort of how Mesa's Peacemaker is used right now which you activate kill a big group then jump out of. The bigger problem with this approach as a whole though is that Peacemaker is HYPER REWARDING it kills "all the things" at almost any tier of play, meanwhile World of Fire will hit a very hard brick wall of scaling it just wouln't compete with no matter how much damage scaling you give (ok outside of the absolutely absurd numbers).
I'd also like to point out that if you want people to toggle powers on and off as needed it would be a great benefit to reduce if not nearly flat out remove the animation and any possible animation lock these abilities might have. Make sure they are considered 1handed abilities so they don't interrupt reloads, make sure they are short or simply don't exist so that people can transition these toggles on and off into their gameplay seamlessly as they are running and jumping around.
If you do want to reduce the range on World on Fire and are hardcore set on it. Then how about looking at Fire Blast? Right now its in a pretty odd spot where Accelerant generally serves the same job (make enemies die faster and cc them) but Accelerant does does that job in a more team beneficial way, at a lower energy cost, with a faster (or atleast it feels faster) animation with a damage component that is much easier to utilitize. With these two things in mind how about changing Fire Blast to be a "flame armor" ability that is mechanically similar to say Mesa's Shatter Shield, Zephyrs Turbulence, Gara's Splinterstorm, and so on. That defensive utility buff that allows Ember to get in there and not die so that even if she does have low/limited range shes still in the think of it burning things.
Gara seems like a nice change. I'll have to give it a try to see how well it works in practice but fundamentally the concept behind it seems good.
Mag, the changes are improvements. I did watch the stream and it was mentioned shes getting more energy. That said I feel like the changes arn't addressing the "core issue" with Mag in that she is still very much energy limited. She wants to cast ALL the powers ALL the time and at a base level her kit just has no "real" energy sustain, shes "needs" Zenurik tied to her hip, she probably still wants an energy proc weapon too, most people would love to have Arcane Energize ontop all of that. Even with all that energy sustain it can still feel lacking at times.
With that in mind how about letting the polarize shards give energy back to Mag when they are consumed? Let enemies killed inside Magnetize give energy back. Let her literally swim in energy to the point shes energy self sufficient without having to carry around more energy pizzas than a papa johns delivery driver. One of the big strengths of say Nidus and a part of why hes a fan favorite is his energy self sufficiency he can cast his powers "all the time" sure if he spends his powers willy nilly he will run out of energy but so long as hes grouping enemies and playing smart you can play Nidus without having to touch Zenurik, an energy pizza, an energy proc weapon, arcane energize, or literally any outside source of energy and that is so liberating and feels great to play. If this could somehow be replicated to other "mages" who want to cast all the things all the time, it would be a great change and remember Mag is supposed to be a starter frame people starting out do not have that legion of 3rd party energy sources they have nothing but energy orbs which leaves the "mage" starter frame not playing very much like a mage.
Volt, I've never had much issue with Discharge personally since its original change a year or two ago. It seems like nice changes though the seeming shift of focus from CC to damage is a bit of a let down for my personal style, but I assume I can probably still make it work or possibly change it up and get something different out of it now. If nothing else this is something I'll play around with and hope for the best.
Zephyr.
Tailwind/Divebomb changes look excellent, only real suggestion here would be to allow push and hold (like how you cast an Ivara quiver arrow) to allow divebomb to be casted even if you are looking up, straight ahead, or wherever. So on the ground push and hold launches you up and gets a hover, while in the air push and hold gets you a divebomb.
Air Burst seems interesting. We didn't see much of it on the stream and Reb was hesitant to show it so that makes sense. I'm not sure about the Tornado synergy as often times using Tornado can be an active detriment to your team (unless using the augment), and I'd hope for Air Burst or whatever might take its place to be something of a more stand alone power that you can use when things are going smooth and Tornado to be that more "oh S#&$ button" for when things get messed up and you don't care if an enemy goes flying or bugged out into the ceiling/walls/whatever.
Tornado changes sound nice on paper. More than anything all I'd hope for with the Tornado changes is for enemies to more or less not get sent flying allowing it to be an ability that has a more "normal" usage case scenario.
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On 8/22/2017 at 9:37 AM, Andaius said:
Indeed. For Years the weapons mods didn't exist in the first place. The game played just fine without them. Login rewards are just A BONUS for you playing those long years as a THANK YOU.
For years you never had a reason to fight an enemy over lv50 unless you wanted to do endless void key runs.
Now you have multiple missions tossing you against lv50+ enemies daily. Primarily from Kuva Floods and Sorties.
For years the Dakra Prime (when using a stance), Dragon Nikana (for quick melee), and Dual Ichors (coptering) where the best melee weapons in game. Nowadays all 3 of those weapons are considered mid tier trash by most people and realistically cannot compete with more optimized weapons for the more serious content out there like those Kuva Floods and Sorties.
Times change and the game changes with it. What was once considered great is now mostly obsolete or even non-viable.
For the most part I don't care about login rewards save currently 4 things. Primed Vigor, Fury, Shred, and the Zenistar. Even then I don't care much about the Zenistar but its still something that enables a completely different playstyle, if they want to keep the Zenistar as a login reward atleast offer a melee weapon that can fill a similar niche from other means. Where as the Primed Mods are just "you will never be as strong as this person so F*** you" and that feels like S#&$, it feels like S#&$ having to explain why they will never have as much health and shields as your build, it sucks explaining why they will never have as much dps as your build, and it sucks realizing your friends who have played longer will always be better than you.
I'd say a pretty big aspect of power fantasy games like Warframe is the satisfaction of collecting everything, the satisfaction of having "the best" weapon or atleast the best of a particular build/weapon/frame. Its your goal, its what people work and strive for. If you then tell them "come back in 2years of daily logins and you might be able to be on equal footing as these people (who will invariably get more new things in those 600 days) that you can never hope to catch up to meet. It destroys any fantasy of having the best melee build, of having the best rifle build, of having the best tank build.
I am by no means saying they should just say F*** it and hand them out like candy, but at the same time there needs to be some sort of catch up mechanic. There needs to be less barriers to entry/success. New players have to feel they have a chance to catch up, they have to feel like there is atleast the potential even if realistically they will never NEVER actually catch up it atleast should feel like maybe possibly theres a chance, that if they tried hard and grinded their asses off that there is a chance. Instead as it stands a new player can never catch up, there is no hope, not even a tiny thread of hope there is just a wall that says you are 600 days behind and you will never catch up and by the time you get those 600 days they will have 600 more days on you still. You have no hope, you have no chance, get in line and be a peasant because that is all you are and all your ever going to be. Which for a power fantasy game thats simply not a good setup to have.
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I made a video thats a bit rambley and I say uhm a lot. I'm not really a content creator/speaker but I really wanted to get this out there as some people, especially some people with voices in the community are spreading some information I just can't agree with so I wanted to give my feedback as big of a platform as I could.
To sum it up somewhat as its a long video of a ramble.
I think Hydroid is in a mostly good place after the rework. I think his tidal surge should have a cost reduction 50 base cost for a dash ability when most dashes cost 25 and we live in a world with bullet jump is just really too expensive especially to be using it a lot to group things. I think the range on undertow is a non-issue, it would be nice to be bigger but I don't think it really matters that much either way, undertows damage is low but has been overstated by some (possibly intentionally) I feel its damage scaling could probably be improved by making it a multiplier instead of a flat damage increase or adding percentage health damage... That said I don't think undertows damage is its main usage/draw but it would be nice to have more obviously. The range changes on Tentacle Swarm are GREAT is it allows you to tap cast to cover doorways/small areas or charge up to cover entire rooms in a single build to suit both situations which is a great thing and really makes the ability more generally useful... Though the tentacles still flap the enemies all over the place like a wavy inflatable arm man and that should really change to make the enemies more stationary so you and allies can easily interact with them.
I go over how I feel Hydroid should be played (as he stands now after the rework) which is group up enemies with a tidal surge, cancel it into undertow, grab in any stragglers, cast 1-2 barrages, then get out of the puddle and shoot the enemies/continue to cast barrage as needed to quickly and easily kill groups of enemies even high level enemies such as demonstrated in the video (I was using 5 lv125 corrupted heavy gunners as my demonstration enemies). I feel as though its a viable and functional gameplay style and its actually sorta fun and a nice improvement from his pre-rework state.
I think an overall goal should be to get people to want to group enemies with his tidal surge and undertow to then lock them down and debuff them with tentacle swam and barrage. Currently instead its group them up properly but only use barrage unless you really care about loot because barrage does a good enough job of cc and debuff on its own without sending the enemies flying all over the place. The tentacles need to hold enemies in place either knocked down pinned to the ground, paralyzed standing up, something, so that they are not hard to interact with for yourself and your allies. If you can get to that point suddenly his entire kit is now working together to form a cohesive and direct identity/package.
I made no mention of his passive in the video mostly because I don't even think about or consider his passive, that is how less than useful and impactful it is. Besides being a tentacle just like his tentacle swarm that will fling enemies around having it be a CHANCE on a slam attack (something you probably arn't using much anyhow) is less than ideal. That said I don't think its a big deal, give him a good passive, leave it as is, I don't think it will really matter. Though you could certainly do some cool stuff with it to really help direct his gameplay in unique ways and this is a great place to help give him flavor and flair all his own to make him stand out more.
Also for the record I've used Hydroid a lot, hes my most used warframe according to my profile. I used him before augments existed, and hes been consistently getting better over the years but this is a real chance to push him into real viability. I don't think you need to reinvent the wheel here, though some work on tentacle swarm to be more user/group friendly while also reducing the cost on tidal surge to bring it more inline with other movement abilities could really be that tipping point to a great package.
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Well I guess I answered my own questions, I was able to isolate it to "local reflections", this is the setting that controls if the tentacles look like clear watery things or a white tentacle thing.
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So I've been trying out the new Hydroid and having some fun with it, but I notice that most of the videos I see of Hydroid have his tentacles look like clear watery things. My tentacles on the other hand are like a white color (no matter my energy color). Is there a particular graphics setting I need to enable/disable/whatever to get the watery/clear tentacles?
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I want to start this off by saying I actually play Hydroid, I actually play him a lot... before pilfering swarm ever existed. Hes my most played frame, which based off my time played stat if the profile stats are accurate I have just shy of 200 hours played on him. I've been playing him basically since he came out, hes always been clunky or didn't really fit but style/thematically I always really liked him.
As it stands there is never a point in the game where I should play Hydroid anymore if I played purely from a min/max or power gamer perspective, generally I don't do that but it does mean I am knowingly handicapping myself and my allies just so I can play a frame I like for non-performance reasons. You can argue that for super optimal farming you will have a Nekros and a Pilfroid, but by that logic you should also have an ore gaze Atlas, and NOBODY is playing that for farm runs. Realistically just Nekros on his own if good enough for lot modifying and even brings more utility while he does it.
I'm going to go over how I run him currently.
Mods; Redirection (swapped for a Quick Thinking on content which can 1shot), Streamline, Curative Undertow, Pilfering Swarm, Prime Flow, Prime Continuity, Narrow Minded, Natural Talent.
Curative Undertow can actually be something of a wildcard slot. I've ran power strength, a second durability mod, or similar there. I don't really run power strength at all anymore its just never relevant really and I've tested it A LOT.
Energy Siphon/Corrosive Projection based on content. Almost always Coaction Drift in the exilus slot.
So what can we tell from this build? Duration is good, range does absolutely nothing and can actively be ignored... your abilities are arguably better with less range because they become less RNG dependent. Power Strength is mostly pointless even with lots of power strength your abilities will not do enough damage to really matter and are mostly there for utility/cc reasons.
Lets take a brief second to also talk about Hydroids raw stats. At lv30 Hydroid has 65 armor, this is actually rather poor its by no means the worst but for a frame with a passive and 2nd ability aimed at melee/getting in close this is woefully low. For reference squishy/caster frames have 15 armor (like Nyx, Trinity, etc), low armored frames like Mesa, Mirage, Nova, Mag etc have 65. Moderately armored frames have around 100-200 like Equinox, Ember, Saryn, and Rhino at the upper edge with 190. Its at around 200 armor and up we start seeing actually tanky frames like Inaros (who has other means to increase his armor aswell), Saryn Prime, Excalibur, Frost, etc. Basically Hydroid has rather low armor, its not the lowest but its low enough to make going into melee, working with life strike, etc just unrealistic in most cases. Hydroids health and shields are also pretty average at 300 and 345, 300 is right about standard for both values so he has slightly above average shields but nothing amazing. In other words Hydroid has armor, shield, and health values are like that of a relatively frail caster Warframe this wouldn't be too bad but unfortunately he also has low energy at only 150, this is compared to most frames that are more caster oriented having around 225 or more this makes it harder/more punishing to use Quick Thinking like many caster frames, and unlike tanky frames like Rhino who also have 150 energy Hydroid doesn't have the extra tanky stats to make up for it.
His current abilities, and also how I utilize them.
1, Tempest Barrage, easily the most underrated ability in Hydroids kit. It has a low cost, and with semi-recent changes it can now be spammed meaning you can cover large areas in Tempest Barrage effects by casting them with high duration and Natural Talent (note the build above). Its damage isn't anything useful/impressive, it does suffer from RNG issues, and like many of Hydroids abilities can and will often get misplaced due to poor targeting controls. Its delay in striking combined with the RNG dispersion means that often times it can be more effective to just kill enemies with weapons than bother casting this abilities. So what are its main uses? any time a group of enemies will move through a doorway (like on defense) you can keep multiple doorways effectively locked down, around a defense point or extractor you can create pure chaos by spamming this around it and also have your tentacles up, the problem is that this is mostly only useful against infested or if you have a disarm loki around and realistically... why not just use Nyx with her actual Chaos or simply use Frost and be a meta slave.
2, Tidal Surge, easily Hydroids worst ability while being super thematic. Most dash/charge abilities in Warframe are 25 energy, Tidal Surge is 50 for unknown reasons. In many situations its a more expensive Rhino Charge that costs twice as much energy. It still retains some old design decisions that have been phased out from newer abilities like its range being based off duration this is something devs have actively removed from other charge/dash abilities in the past. As mentioned in the build part range simply isn't needed technically it increases the striking radius of Tidal Surge but again its damage isn't relevant and more often than not using this as crowd control is not useful because the enemies get rag dolled around, this is actually an issue with most of Hydroids CC its often actively moving the enemies around making them harder to shoot than they would be otherwise. The biggest issue with this ability overall is that Hydroid can't melee very good, he is NOT tanky by any stretch of the imagination, he doesn't want to get in close with enemies! In real game play, the best usage of this ability is as a panic escape if you get surrounded, but if you do get surrounded to this point why not just bullet jump out instead of waste the energy?
3, Undertow, aka The Puddle. The legendary troll ability to precede Limbos entire existence. Its damage is 100% pure garbage, put as much power strength as you want in there it doesn't matter if by some for of super hax you could get over 500% power strength it still wouldn't matter the damage would still be horrible. This ability has a host of issues that I could go on about for days but I'll try to keep it brief. Camera view is really bad/awkward during puddle, can't move while in puddle form, and enemies sucked into puddle can't be damaged by outside sources but their auras continue to tick (aka you can suck a toxic eximus into a puddle and kill your team for "fun and profit"). So how do I use it? Its mostly to "pause" a fight and regen shields/health while solo in a pinch you can also heal allies between waves, the healing utility requires the augment without the augment outside of solo shield regen the ability is basically useless.
4, Tentacle Swarm, this is the ability everyone knows Hydroid for and not because the ability itself is good or useful but because it has an augment to increase loot drops. It has the same aiming mechanics/issues as Tempest Barrage covered above, but doubled into that is the tentacle placement which often times will require an act of god to actually make use of all your tentacles. The relatively recent change to this ability allowing it to be recast (like Tempest Barrage they were both changed to this functionality in the same patch) has allowed Hydroid to build for duration effectively without completely gimping himself in missions other than defense, this change was actually really great for helping to keep Hydroid going but realistically didn't do much to actually change any issues. The damage on Tentacle Swarm is actually decent if you build for it (it was once the proper/best way to build Hydroid, minimum duration max strength kill all the things for lots of loots!) though due to Hydroids poor energy pool you basically need a trinity tied to your hip to effectively use this as a reliable nuke and even then why not just spam Crush on Mag with the exact same build and do insanely more damage/cc in a much larger area without a target limit... and thats Mag lets not even approach RJ Excal, Ash 4 spam, or something else actually known for massive nuking. The biggest issue this ability has is that when used as CC the enemies you do hit (RNGesus be praised) get flipped and flopped all over the place making them hard/impossible for allies to shoot. Tentacle placement can be very poor with this ability coming out of walls, ceilings, and sometimes worst of all materializing in the air. This ability and Hydroid himself are realistically kept afloat by the pilfering swarm augment for this ability, without this augment Hydroid would be the worst frame in the game, no questions asked.
So with going over all of this current stuff we can see a few recurring issues through Hydroids entire kit.
1, He is not a damage dealer or more accurately his abilities even when focused on it do not do good damage.
2, Many of his effects rely on enemies walking into them which is ineffective vs ranged enemies (aka most enemies in the game).
3, ALL of his CC effects make enemies HARDER to kill for your team, this is just outright bad.
4, His strongest abilities Tempest Barrage and Tentacle Swarm require a full time membership to the church of RNG to aim properly and actually hit targets successfully. No matter how much skill and practice you have making these abilities work consistently is impossible you need RNG on your side, you can minimize the impact of RNG SOME with reduced range, but that doesn't change the aiming issues (especially around doors and such).
5, With his less than stellar CC and rather weak damage capability he also has VERY weak stats that don't support otherwise being in the thick of the fight making the best of it. I mean Oberon has a better stat line than Hydroid, can actually do good damage with Reckoning, and has useful niches for buffing with Smite Infusion, proc immunity with the shag carpet, and DOESN'T actively make enemies harder to kill for his allies.
So with those issues identified how do we change this to something good/useful?
1, Increase his Health, Armor, and Shields. No frame right now has high shields and health simultaneously they have one or the other. Give Hydroid something unique by giving him higher than average shields and health (325 or 350 each perhaps?). Also increase his armor to be more inline with the like of Ember and Saryn, I'd be looking somewhere around 150 this would basically double his current mitigation and put him on similar footing as Oberon with slightly less health but a bit more shields and equal armor.
2, Arguably we can keep this issue (zone effects not being great vs ranged enemies) as his defining weakness/thing to play around. Though on this point his Tidal Surge should be changed to suck up enemies into the wave and deposit them at Hydroids feet at the end of the ability this way he can actively move enemies into his zones of control. I'll go over the ability changes in more detail after this.
3, His CC effects should be changed to stuns, immobilizes, etc. Things that will prevent them from acting but DOES NOT send them flying all over the place, remove them from the map, etc. Again more on this when we look at specific ability changes.
4, Instead of trying to fix the targeting problems, which I suspect would be very hard if not impossible from a technical aspect to instead reinforce the idea of Hydroid being more durable and "ok" with getting into the thick of things by making Tempest Barrage and Tentacle Swarm point blank area of effect abilities. So instead of being a range targeted ability they would instead create circular zones centered on Hydroids current position, this would "fix" the aiming issues and make a more unique and interesting character that isn't just another ranged CC mage type character competing with the likes of Nyx, Nova, or similar (at which point you'd just have "who does it better" issues).
The ability changes
1, Tempest Barrage. Firstly give the water droplets some punch through this way something like stairs, a guard rail, or some random overhang doesn't completely nullify this ability based on unlucky positioning. Reduce the damage, with punch through theoretically this would increase the damage (multiple hits/explosions) so to keep its damage in check reduce the damage and possibly make each hit do progressively less damage to the same target. Instead of knockdowns, the crowd control aspect should be a stun the enemies remain standing but are frozen in place. The knockdowns could remain instead of stuns, but make sure the knockdown duration is relatively uniform across all enemy types and ideally lasts longer as many enemies can almost seemingly ignore knockdowns.
2, Tidal Surge. The width of this ability should be DRAMATICALLY increased and further its width should also scale strongly with power range (to prevent a full duration build like currently used from being too strong). Enemies hit by this power should be sucked into the wave (similar to the current mechanics of Undertow), and then deposited at Hydroids feet/nearby. Allow the dash to be canceled early by pressing the button again. This would help justify the tanky stat increases, and it would also give Hydroid a means to force enemies into his crowd control zones, besides being a crowd control ability itself. By increasing its size you also make its augment that much better as currently its unreliable to hit more than 1-2 enemies without voice comms and people actively working together.
3, Undertow, The Puddle. Allow Hydroid to move around while Undertow is active, check out the League of Legends character Vladimir his W (blood pool) is very similar to ideally how Hydroid can utilize Undertow. That said a movement penalty should be added so he moves SLOWLY, this ability in and of itself shouldn't be a mobility option but he should be able to reposition the effect to some degree. Remove the damage from the ability entirely, make the healing from the augment for Hydroid/Self only, and allow the augment to not only heal allies but also provide damage mitigation or similar. Enemies touching the puddle will no longer be sucked in but stunned for a VERY short duration meaning so long as Hydroid keeps the enemies on the puddle they are stunned and can be attacked by allies.
4, Tentacle Swarm, Instead of just spawning tentacles it should create a "tentacle zone", enemies who enter the zone will be grabbed by a tentacle and take damage overtime while being held in place. The zone would have a target limit equivalent to the the max number of tentacles that can currently be summoned.
In general target limits that scale off power strength like Vaubans Bastille could be needed help keep Undertow and/or Tidal Surge balanced and to prevent people from ignoring power strength for just large strong CC effects.
So overall what do all these proposed changes mean? Hydroid would be average to slightly above average in durability/tankiness alongside a unique stat line, and would be focused on fast and mobile CC options. This means that while you probably would still want a Blind Mirage, Chaos Nyx, or similar for CC for interception, defense, or similar more static game modes. Hydroid would stand out and in being a mobile CC option for Exterminate, Sabotage, and Survival (assuming you arn't camping) where you fight a group, move to the next group, rinse repeat. He would still have his niche as a loot bot with pilfering swarm. Ideally Hydroid would be played by running into a room, grouping enemies with Tidal Surge then using one or more of his CC options to lock down enemies for his allies in a beneficial way without making them harder to shoot.
This could also be swung as both a buff and a nerf to pilfroid. While it does mean you have to get into point blank range to use tentacle swarm, it also means your tentacle swarm is infinitely more consistent with no more random tentacles on the ceiling, and similar such stupidity.
Another aspect to cover overall is that I kept in mind design decisions taken with the reworks to Saryn, Volt, Mag, and recent frame releases. That all stats should be useful/desirable to some extent, that overtly focusing on one stat should have a real downside it. While currently with Hydroid range is "bad", with this proposed rework range is actually beneficial/good, duration is useful, efficiency can't be ignored, power strength could be used as scaling for target caps to keep it relevant, and you still need to consider durability stats. Hopefully this helps keep the rework concept inline with design decisions/standards of Warframe currently being used (atleast from an outside/player perspective).
I just really like Hydroid visually and thematically as a "water frame". I'd really like to get him to the point of not always being last place in popularity polls, to actually having a solidified purpose beyond a loot augment (and not even being the primary frame in that role either), while I do like the novelty of being a special snowflake/rare to some degree I'd rather share what I enjoy with others and actually be REMOTELY useful and not a obstruction to teams when I play my favorite frame.
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7 hours ago, Lord_Datastorm said:
Well I fought her and beat her and didnt get the Bp.
Its not a 100% drop rate. I've killed her 3 times, and got it twice.
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The arena bit was ok, those instant kill buzzing drones were pretty bullS#&$, but eventually I just said F*** it and always ran from them.
I tried Inaros at first but his 2 doesn't work on arena enemies (straight up "invalid target") and his 1 didn't enable finishers/blind enemies. I ended up settling on Rhino, I just ran my standard low efficiency high strength/range group roar build, nothing unusual or out of the ordinary. The energy restrictions were a pain but not impossible to work around I camped the energy spawns and used a synoid simulor for the proc, a few times I had a trinity and let them get the energy instead so they could spread the love. With a decent Iron Skin up most of the damage didn't really matter, and the simulor was able to deal with the enemies easily enough while still having the energy proc.
I'm pretty sure I can run the Arena mode with most any frame once I figured out those buzz bots are broken as F***, seriously just as soon as you hear the buzz just start spamming roll and pray you live. That said I can easily see how this mode could be rather daunting to any new-ish player, multiple enemies are capable of bursting you from around 600-800 total health to dead, no matter how much armor or anything else you have.
Kela de BullS#&$ on the other hand is just annoying beyond all reason. Shooting puzzle with standing on pads while getting swarmed with rollers? alright, you enjoy receptive anal intercourse and I can respect that. Shooting puzzle while standing on pads while getting swarmed by rollers while also getting pwn missiles carpeting the entire map. Then after all that Kela herself who is a pretty serious health sponge multi-forma primaries from top tier stuff like the Synoid Simulor to sorta odd ball picks like a Supra all of with maxed mods and multiple forma and she just stands there and takes it like she couldn't give less of a F*** if she tried. Then the fact you have to go grind 5 more Arena3's just to run her again!? You'd be hard pressed to make a more annoying boss without just making it full on 1shots for days and making all the numbers bigger.
I know... How about for the next boss you just spam us with Manic Rollers while we have to do parkor puzzles!
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Most passives arn't anything that impressive. Sure you have Inaros who gets the an entire kit effectively jammed into his passives, yet for most frames passives are just nice little things. Like reload speed on single handed secondaries, or a built in weaker equilibrium, they arn't super power or world shattering but they add some flavor and uniqueness. Some passives are also pretty awesome like Atlas being knockdown immune while on the ground.
These arn't in general the sorts of things that make or break a frame, unless the frame was purpose designed around a passive it has its usually not a big deal. That said I'm mostly hyped for it. They could add really cool stuff to less popular frames like Hydroid, or really cool thematic abilities to things like Ember. I really don't think its something they can mess up, the literal worst case scenario is that we get more Rhino passives that don't matter or really do much and its just sort of there.
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I'm just going to list some weapons that really need some buffs/look at. Often these weapons have been powercreeped completely out of usability or even when they were relatively new were nothing all that good or special.
Machete. The recent reward from the Thousand Cuts tactical alert. It has the lowest base damage of ANY melee weapon in game, well techincally its tied with the Obex at 25, yet unlike the Obex it doesn't have crit stats, it doesn't have status chance, its also a machete that uses machete stances which arn't helping it unlike single sword stances like crimson dervish which helps lower damage weapon compete/out perform weapons with higher damage with good damage multipliers. There is never a point where you should be using the Machete, EVER! It is quiet literally the worst melee weapon in the game by every imaginable way. You are always going to have a "worst weapon" its unavoidable but it shouldn't be this overtly apparent and by such a huge gap in power.
While the Machete wears the crown of worst weapon, the entire group of "machete" weapons are in general huge underperformers. By machete standards 45 base damage is GREAT, by the REST OF THE GAMES melee weapons 70-80 base is good. The highest damage Machete is the Prova Vandal at 48. With the exception of the Nami Solo at 15% every other machete has 5% crit chance. Even the Nami solo with its 15% crit chance only has 35 damage, which is sharing direct competition with say the Prisma Skana which has the augment and 20% crit chance, or the Kogake which also has 20% crit chance, or dual cleavers (and their prisma variants) with 25% crit chance and an augment... Even such beloved and "overpowered" weapons as the Furax clock in with 25% crit chance and still have the same base damage. I could list more weapons with 35 base damage that are just flat better than the Nami Solo but I think the points been made and thats been restricting it to other weapons with 35 base damage, heaven forbid we actually try to compete with something like a Mios, Broken War, or similar which have great stances, better damage, better crit, better range, basically better everything possibly conceivable.
I'm not saying you need to make machetes great, I'm not even saying you need to make them as a whole weapon class top tier, but for the love of god can atleast one of them be decent? Just a single weapon to make the class of weapons worth using, if not can you atleast remove the machete designation, remove sundering weave from the game, and make all current machetes count as single swords so they actually have access to decent stances? As it stands you could delete all machetes from the game and nothing of value would be lost besides the Nami Solo's very pretty model which is luckily still visible in the Nami Skyla weapon.
Lets talk the Silva and Aegis, this weapon probably gets brought up a lot. It was a fan vote weapon you know people love and want it, they voted on it!! Yet its just a let down in every respect. Lets compare the Silva and Aegis to the Ninkondi or Lacera.
- Silva and Aegis, 35 base damage (elemental only), 5% crit chance, 1.5 crit damage, 20% status chance. 1.0 speed.
- Ninkondi, 45 base damage (elemental only), 10% crit chance, 2.0 crit damage, 35% status chance, 1.0 speed.
- Lacera, 80 base damage (elemental only), 2.5% crit chance, 2.0 crit damage, 45% status chance, .91 speed.
What do we see here? We could literally double the Silva and Aegis damage and status chance and it would still be out performed by the Lacera which while mildly slower has great reach and even with the Silva and Aegis being doubled in damage/status would still have more damage and status than it. The Ninkondi is also a straight upgrade. Beyond this 20% status chance even with all 4 dual stat mods is NOT enough to reach 100% status chance, meanwhile both the Ninkondi and Lacera can reach 100% status chance with relative ease.
The Silva and Aegis needs SOMETHING, ANYTHING, to be relevant to the game. Its an absolutely beautiful weapon visually and its one that was community voted in. If you don't want it to out perform comparable status weapons or atleast compete with them realistically give them something else, a sword and shield mod similar to covert lethality but instead of stealth kills let its blocking reflect damage, let it have a shield base that opens up enemies to finishers, let it generate energy when it blocks attacks, let it do something, ANYTHING to be worth using. This is a weapon I truly want to use, I want it to be relevant, I want to show my friends "look at this awesome fire energy sword and shield" and have it be both visually wowing and effective. Remember you could double all its stats and it would still be outperformed by already existing status weapons, thats how in the dumpster this weapon is.
Scythes, recently they got some quiet buffs and those buffs were GREAT. Sadly they still have one crucial issue. There range is nearly unusable, without any range mods on I honestly think single daggers have a bigger range, atleast thats what it feels like in game. With primed reach on instead of feeling like a benefit and adding range it feels more like a "fix" to an otherwise broken class of weapons putting its range at a comparable state of single swords, dual swords, etc. Perhaps the range on these weapons is bugged and its an issue in that regard, perhaps you just overlooked the range stat on these weapons, I honestly have no clue but as it stands using a scythe basically requires you to stand on your enemies toes to have a chance at hitting them.
Has anyone in your QA/Balance department tried using an Ogris lately? After you try it go try a Kulstar and be blown away by just how underwhelming the Ogris is. It has to charge to fire, like a bow but unlike a bow doesn't get any increased rate of fire benefits from rate of fire mods. Meanwhile the Kulstar requires has ZERO charge mechanics shoots a powerful rocket, that has more multishot while also having rockets that explode into more rockets for more explosions. Lets not even talk about insane comparisons like the Tonkor which has no charge mechanics, can crit, and has no self damage. When you have a secondary weapon that just stomps all over a primary weapons identity, you probably have a problem. At the very least just remove the charge mechanic from the Ogris, or if you want to keep the charge mechanic make it worth while by removing self damage, giving it possibly a lockon mechanic, or something. Considering the model update you gave the Torid and Ogris awhile back I was hoping you'd give it some love along side the visuals but it never really happened.
Lets touch on one of the classic weapons of these types of things. I'm sure this has to be something of meme within DE's office, but I'm gonna say it anyhow. The Grinlok needs love.
- Grinlok, 120 base damage, 15% crit chance, 2.0 crit damage, 35% status chance, 2.1 reload, 6 round magazine, 1.7 rof.
- Marelok, 160 base damage, 15% crit chance, 1.5 crit damage, 30% status chance, 1.7 reload, 6 round magazine, 2 rof
Sure the Grinlok got an augment, and its also stat wise a great augment, yet even with that the Marelok still gets to use pistol mods which are much stronger than rifle mods with things like the primed crit mods, primed heated charge, or having both lethal torrent and barrel diffusion for insane multishot stats. To make matters worse you also released the Vaykor Marelok a straight upgrade to the Marelok that has a syndicate proc destroying what little hope the Grinlok had from the augment and competing with its pistol brothers. Honestly at this point I think you just sorta go "yeah the Grinlok is S#&$, sorry everyone but atleast the Marelok and Vaykor Marelok are nice" it seems like a hole you've intentionally dug yourself into for whatever reason and its been this way since 2014 when they came out.
On a more personal note... We have the AkJagara I really like this weapon it looks very stylish, it has decent stats, but it also has cripplingly horrible recoil. Sure you can run steady hands, but then you gimp your damage. You can be "skillful" and compensate for recoil but unlike in normal shooters with recoil/compensation you are usually shooting at 1-2 targets not a screen full of targets coming from every direction while doing acrobatics. Its screen shake can also be semi-nauseating at times even if you are compensating. Usually you save recroil for weapons shooting actual projectiles like the Zhuge, Attica, Tetra, Dera, or full on machineguns, yet you have the AkJagara absolutely insane recoil for no real good reason. Even if it had no recoil like a Soma Prime it still wouldn't even reach the top tier weapons, it still would never get the podium finish among secondaries, it just doesn't have the stats to get it their, but it does have decent stats, it is a solid performer, just please as a personal self request just remove the AkJagara's recoil.
This is by no means a full accounting of weapons that need buffs or tweaks, nor is it meant to be. These are just weapons that seem to overtly need some attention. This also isn't a nerf post. Yes the Tonkor is complete nuts and ruins balance among launchers, that doesn't mean the Ogris regardless of how the Tonkor isn't in a bad place itself. Sure the Broken War and Nikana Prime have completely powercreeped the ever loving S#&$ out of melee weapon balance and left many other weapons in the dust that doesn't mean machetes weren't hot garbage even before these weapons hit the scene. At the end of the day nerfing overperforming weapons has the potential to hurt people, and the game, but making underpowered and underused weapons decent if not even attractive to use doesn't hurt anyone its a pure net benefit to everyone from the beancounters in DE's Scrooge McDuck money vaults to the bittervets with everything ever and the new players who have literally nothing everyone can benefit from machetes being useful, from the silva and aegis being more than a fashion accessory, from the Ogris being a useful an fun weapon, to Scythes actually having a longer reach than your $&*^.... These are things that will make Warframe better for everyone.
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2 hours ago, Inmemoratus said:
That is incorrect. Blinded enemies do not take any actions.
This is incorrect. They will not shoot, but they will still take some actions. Mostly this consists of things like heavy gunners aoe ground slams, and similar type effects. Blinded corpus mine laying douchebags will still lay mines. I have seen blinded enemies shooting but I don't remember it ever being common.
During the 1k cuts tactical alert recently I was playing Inaros a lot spamming his blind, the Bailiffs were consistently still ground slamming even while blinded with the blind particle effects still in there eyes.
Blind is not a 100% stun/incapacitate, they can still take some actions but in general its pretty close to a full stun especially against basic enemies.
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Karyst with Pressure Point, Covert Lethality, and 4x 90% elemental mods. 966 damage per hit. This leaves two mod slots open for lifestrike, fury, or whatever you want really.
Karyst without Covert Lethality but using a 60% damage mod instead is 572 damage per hit.
Broken War with Pressure Point, Buzzkill, and 4x 90% elemental mods. 1100 damage per hit. This leaves two mod slots open for lifestrike, fury, or whatever you want really.
Dakra Prime with Pressure Point, Buzzkill, and 4x 90% elemental mods. 734 damage per hit. This leaves two mod slots open for lifestrike, fury, or whatever you want really.
While yes the Broken War is stronger its also a top tier weapon, and was a MASSIVE source of powercreep. Covert Lethality is not only giving daggers competitive damage numbers with top tier one handed weapons, its also giving them a unique passive ability for 1shot kills. It is in no way a wasted slot.
Edit, I added in the Dakra Prime with the same damage build to help show a non-power creeped to hell version of damage so you can realize just how strong the Karyst is at 966.
Now you might argue that they should just buff dagger damage and make the 1shot finishers a passive, at that point why use ANY other one handed weapon. You'd be putting dagger damage for normal attacks likely exceeding that of things like Broken War while also letting it have passive 1shot finishers. That is NOT balanced. Its important to realize that by making cover lethality a mod instead of an across the board buff to all daggers its in effect a "balanced buff" because it eats up a mod slot instead if this was a passive buff they would have to balance in mind that a dagger would just add in another damage mod in its place and just do absurd damage which means they have to scale the damage buff back, but then you end up with the pre-covert lethality issue of daggers just doing limited damage compared to other one handed weapons unless you just run 29 elemental mods.
What I'm saying and trying to show is that covert lethality as a mod was and is actually a great balancing move by the devs. It gives daggers relevant damage, and a unique passive effect, and yet it also doesn't make them completely nutso strong.
Honestly I want more mods like covert lethality. I'd love a whip mod that gives them extra reach and damage that can stack with reach/primed reach so they can truly be the long reaching melee weapons they deserve to be. A sword and shield mod that give them more damage and a block passive that matters (reflected block damage, block damage charges energy, anything really). Mods like these are what you can use to make specific weapon types really break into a great and useful niche but without making there base versions insanely strong/stat bloated. By making these changes in mods you "gate" them to a certain extent that they can sacrifice a raw damage mod to instead specialize in the weapons unique abilities. If you could just passive use a rank1 full unmodded dagger to 1hit that would be unbalanced as F***, it would kill any real sense of progression for the weapon or modding it. Things like these need to have some progression and unlocking to it, in earning them. Yeah using a niche weapon like a dagger without covert lethality might not be great but thats ok, you still have staple melee weapons like nikanas, single swords, and heavy weapons to just go hulk smash things without the need for specialized mods.
So I'm sorry, but I can't agree with the idea of removing covert lethality or not making mods like this. I personally think cover lethality was a great addition and want more mods like it.
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1 hour ago, Ellthan said:
I'll try to redo the math with crit in mind, but I don't consider event mods prominent enough to count.
Besides, doesen't bw and nk have the same distribution of IPS?
Blood Rush allows Nikana Prime to red crit, with a base 2.0 multiplier which is higher than the BW's 1.5 multiplier. Red crits with a real crit multiplier is very relevant.
As to IPS distribution. BW is 72/9/9 compared to Nikana Primes 85.5/4.8/4.8 giving the Nikana Prime a higher ratio of slash damage to get more benefit from Buzzkill.
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35 minutes ago, Ellthan said:
Dragon nikana had 20 more damage than dakra prime and dakra prime still won in the DPS race with crimson.
Nikana prime only has 5 more than broken war, how can it possibly upset this balance when the difference in BASE damage is even smaller than before?
Because Nikana Prime besides damage actually got real crit stats unlike broke war. Also Nikana Prime got a better IPS spread to have even more slash to benefit from buzzkill more.
Those older comparisons also didn't have blood rush which makes the crit chance and crit damage bonuses of the Nikana Prime that much more effective.
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On 3/24/2016 at 4:43 PM, Ayalis said:
She can do an okay job vs trash mobs at 270 but from level 80 I can't find her answer for mobs with effective hps into the hundreds of thousands. If a mob has 800k hp you still have to get through 400k hp within a small space of time while being shot at, and if you fail to get the target to 0 it's back to 800k hp, so you are consuming loads of energy to keep it up and enemies cc'd or momentarily distracted.
The HP isn't the issue, its the armor. Almost every frame starts running into hard to kill armored enemies in the void around lv80. To go beyond that easily you need a frame/weapon specifically designed around bypassing armor (using finisher damage, or having armor stripping) or be in a team using corrosive projection. Once the armor is dealt with Saryn goes back to demolishing them just fine and dandy. Most weapons and frames run into this issue with armored enemies, it can be played around but its the wall most people hit, there are ways around it as mentioned above but its sort of the dividing line between long time casuals and people who take warframe much more seriously.
As to viral, you bounce and reapply the procs by spore popping, if you are having enemies heal up and having viral drop you are probably not using spore properly and/or you are only fighting one enemy. If there is one enemy left don't be afraid to run and find more enemies so you can do your AoE business, its what Saryn is all about.
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6 hours ago, IfritKajiTora said:
First you write that she need a buff to molt and toxic lash, but then that those Saryn threads don't make sense to you.....
The hell?
Miasma is doing good damage, but toxic lash and molt need something, damage is not everything.
I never said toxic lash needs a buff, its fine as is. Those were my exact words I even put "fine" in quote marks just like that.
Realistically I'm confused about the idea of all these "reworks" and redesigns. Saryn doesn't need anything major, a minor tweak to make Molt scale with an immunity period like Iron Skin, Warding Halo, and Snow Globe is all thats really "needed" and even then as is without any changes shes already pretty damn strong.
The entire concept that toxic lash is bad or undesirable really just makes me think people don't realize how Saryn/Spore function or how Toxic Lash works with Spore to stack and spread multiple large toxin procs. The issue with Toxic Lash has NOTHING to do with its power, lack of power, or anything like that. It has everything to do with Saryn not always being able to reliably get into melee, this is mostly because Molt can and will get 1shot removing her ability to "get in there" vs higher level enemies.
Miasma does a lot of damage but it doesn't do "good damage". More often than not using Miasma is just a waste either your spore popping is going to do the job just fine as is, or the enemies are so armor stacked that Miasma will literally do nothing. This has more to do with how armor scales vs dot's and less with Miasma as an individual ability but Miasma can be modified to act as a bandaid to the situation but its not really needed as it only becomes an issue when you are doing lv80+ enemies without a group for CP stacking, this is a pretty small niche of content to be honest so it seems unrealistic that this niche is what everyone is talking about in terms of Saryn balance.
Its not just this thread, or your ideas but literally this entire forum is full of threads from people that clearly don't understand the mechanics behind Saryn's abilities or what the frame is even capable of. Saryn is in a pretty good spot, shes rewards player skill there is no reason to have all these rework threads trying to make her a mindless spambot and thats what baffles me, all these rework threads are basically just saying "lets make Saryn cruise control mode".
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Toxic Lash is "fine" its not a great ability but it does work and it does contribute. The main issue with Toxic Lash has more to do with Saryn being squishy and Molt not giving her enough protection.
Realistially she could really REALLY use some buffs to Molt notably an immunity period similar to Iron skin and Snow Globe so that it can actually be usable against high level enemies (against low level enemies it works fine). By making Molt better you in effect make Toxic Lash stronger as it becomes more usable (the issues with Toxic Lash are entirely about Saryn not being durable enough to constantly melee, not the power of the effect itself).
Miasma is also "ok" its not as good as Toxic Lash, but its issues again have more to do with enemy scaling and armor. To that end I've been a big fan of making each tick of Miasma apply a corrosive proc or have a chance to do so. You don't have to scale its damage, make it have insane CC, or anything to make it an inherently stronger ability just give her a solid anti-armor option which will make Miasma more effective against armored enemies while still focusing her gameplay around spore.
All these threads about Saryn just don't make sense to me, shes basically the best high end AoE damage frame in the game. Shes nearly made Nova obsolete while still bringing more bulk and damage to the table. Shes not an easy frame to play, and thats a GREAT thing. Saryn rewards skill, off meta weapons, and working together. Aside from issues when not in a team with 4xCP and Molt's general under performance shes otherwise in a great place that we should be moving more frames towards not moving Saryn away from, atleast thats my 2cents.
Synoid Gammacor Graphical Bug
in General
Posted · Edited by Brosephelon
Since the beam changes the Synoid Gammacor has had a bug where energy color "beams" will be visible from the gammacor itself to some point on the terrain.
https://imgur.com/YO76rN2
Above is a screen shot example of the issue, multiple blue energy beams from the gammacor towards a terrain surface. The beams will still there for the remainder of the mission even if you swap weapons, go in and out of operator or similar. The beams will stretch from the point of terrain they are attached to to your location clipping through terrain and other obstructions to do so. If you fire the gammacor again after this it will function normally but the beams will attach themselves to the finally point of terrain fired upon and remain there until a new point of terrain is shot.
I've narrowed down the cause of this to being effected by a knockdown/knockback effect while firing the Synoid Gammacor. Such as a grineer shield lancers shield bash or any number of other knockback/down effects.
I'm sure you are aware of the bug, and how its caused. Though I figured since a few hotfixes have happened since this bug was introduced and it hasn't been patched I'd drop what knowledge I have about it.