Kidkilla
-
Posts
203 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by Kidkilla
-
-
On 2020-05-29 at 4:29 PM, Leyers_of_facade said:
While the exact numbers isn't something we can find, there are quite a few things about DE and Leyou that we can find from their financial reports
In 2018, DE accounts for the vast majority of Leyou's revenue (194 million out of 227.7 million of Leyou's revenue is from warframe)
-> Considering WF accounts for ~85% of their revenue, it would be sensible to guess that in terms of "cost of goods sold", warframe would likely be accounting a similar percentage (I am not saying its also 85%, but its unlikely for it to be 40% or 100% as that will indicate very alarming results about the other "products" Leyou provides, either scenario would mean these other products cost nearly nothing or cost way too much)
The total cost of goods sold of Leyou is 86 million, so I would be putting my guess of warframe's at roughly 86*0.85 ~ 73M. We would be at ~120M in terms of gross profit (pre tax as well as before accounting for other costs such as administrative / operating costs) for warframe (out of 141M for all of Leyou) However, we can see that after everything is accounted for, Leyou's profit for the year in 2018 was only 20M (compare that to the 141M in gross profit), how these numbers are calculated is shown in the picture below as well as inside their reports. Roughly speaking, 85% of their gross profit was spent on other expenses as well as paying taxes, in this case, if we were to apply a similar calculation to warframe, I would put my guess of warframe's profit at roughly 18M.
Now, in 2019, things got a little problematic for Leyou (which is why they are being bought up), Warframe's revenue decreased by 12.2% according to their report, so revenue wise, it is roughly 172M in 2019 for warframe (Leyou's total revenue in 2019 is 214 million, so warframe accounts for ~80% this time). Cost of sales went up compared to the previous years and gross profit decreased by 20M. This wasn't the worst part, administrative expenses and marketing expenses went up significantly, we saw a lot more advertisement and such about warframe (which is probably what happened to those expenses). We all know how liches and railjack went (hint: it didn't go too well), so after all calculations, Leyou was at a 6 million loss in 2019 (compared to 20M profit in 2018). Using a similar estimation method from above, I would be putting my guess on warframe's earning at perhaps -5.5M in 2019, ie, a 5.5M loss.
There are definitely many "problems" with the way I am making my estimation, but its probably a decent ballpark of what you are looking at for warframe's profit the past 2 years.
Sources:
http://leyoutech.com.hk/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/ltn20190417075.pdf (2018 report)
http://leyoutech.com.hk/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/2019-Annual-Report.pdf (2019 report)
that's actually a pretty logical breakdown of numbers. The real $1000 question is if DE was operating at a loss in 2019, and we know overall demand for WF products has dropped while one would assume operating costs have increased with content intro and revamps, plus current industry finances and not excluding China and Canada's little geopolitical spat, what is the current state of play with DE's inflow (earnings plus investment)?
-
8 hours ago, DrivaMain said:
DE retains Creative Control during the initial agreement. So even by changing investors they can still can’t interfere with development. I would rather they break off from Leyou to be independent to be honest, they are making lots of profits while sending Leyou’s cut. Imagine it with all of the profit for themselves,
Revenue/Earnings does not = profits. Does anyone have any info on DE's last earnings call or end of year financials?
-
On 2020-05-19 at 2:59 AM, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:
Things start out slow and simple and fun in the beginning, then they change with the times, and the people that were used to the old way have a hard time adjusting, sure.
I don't think its just that. I think WF is beginning to show its age and it's core game design which hasn't really changed despite additions is starting to wear thin.
-
1
-
-
for my money - there are so many factors as to why Warframe is in the state its in.
Despite DE's addition of some awesome mechanics and cinematic quests, Warframe remains fundamentally a 3rd person dungeon looter in terms of game design. Allied to this is DE's business model which needs content that generates micro transactions. Anything that carries too much risk in breaking this relationship won't make it past the cutting board. The half hearted additions to the game - lunaro, PVP, Railjack etc point towards a want to change the game design but a realisation that that would take away from its core business. This is not to say that De is cynical in its deployment of content - the oft criticised focus on fashion frame, it's to re highlight (because I'm sure we're all aware) these limitations. And these limitations are getting more into focus due to the game's age.
However, Warframe has now reached that point that every game reaches (yes even those with 'games as a service' model) where the creators have to decide which player and therefore revenue base it's going to prioritise. As a fan who's logged in a ridiculous amount of hours (I've played this game longer than I've been married or had kids), I'm naturally going to say the vets, however that's not my call to make. Which ever way DE decides to focus on (and they will lose business regardless if they decide to stick, swim or shake), they're going to have to go further than they have in terms of restructuring the game design. Right now, its still too confusing/difficult for new players and still too easy for vets (in the main). Nerfing abilities/making enemy dolls harder to kill will gloss over some of the more glaring flaws in the game.
Personally, I would like to see DE focus on Warframe 2.0 - a redesign which will takeaway some of the more fringe elements and go back to concentrating on its core game play. I'd also like to see complete overhaul of the warframes themselves. At some point DE will run out of viable ideas for new warframes. What then? an idea would be a more modular system of powers and abilities tied to the operator with the warframe going back to being a basic armoured shell as originally intended (complete with fashion frame of course). but that's just an idea before I get the usual cascade of caustic commentary.
My overall point is that the game needs to change, and change quickly. As its stand now, I'm debating uninstalling it simply because I don't see it having legs any more and therefore may be I should focus my limited energies on other entertainment. and I know I'm not the only one.
-
1
-
-
Some people like playing that way. This is why you have the 'invite only' button before you go on missions.
-
4
-
-
just got off Destiny base game...they've added the 2 year one expansions for free and earlier than September. As for the new additions and Bungie's road map, I like it. It seems Bungie has thrown off the shackles and has (finally) embraced games as a service. I suspect when the next expansion gets released and Destiny moves to Steam in September, Forsaken will go for a massive discount and/or free for a limited period. AND that expansion from little I've played of it via a friend, is most definitely worth the time.
-
On 2019-02-16 at 2:14 AM, HugintheCrow said:
I really find it funny how you need MORE proof. Have you followed gaming at all in the recent years?
Also, googling "ea lying" gave me this (lmao):
looks for anything contrary to what's been published for Anthem and finds...nothing.
-
4 hours ago, HugintheCrow said:
3a publishers have lied to press before (by making the review versions have easier progression/lower prices than the retail ones).
3a publishers have lied to their customers before... especially in demos/early access versions.
With ea and bullcrap monetisation it's not about IF, it's about HOW MUCH.
In short: Anthem WILL be overmonetised. There is no doubt about that. And if you do doubt it, it's denial.
Proof. No proof, no basis. I'll stand by facts not conjecture.
-
On 2019-02-13 at 10:56 AM, Cephalon_Umbra said:
My impression from Anthem Demo play was a "Mass Effect MP Online" ish game with potential to be really good but that will likely be crippled by EA's money hunger
so far with the early access that appears to not be the case.. much like every press release has confirmed for the last 4 months.
-
On 2019-02-07 at 11:59 AM, (XB1)Jonatasu said:
I play Warframe, I'm not a Pro, but I really like to play Waframe and I think that it's all about your personal taste.
There isn't anyone that knows if Anthem will be linear or not, but if it will, well... it will be a paradigm break, a change of pattern.
We will have to wait.
it'll have quests and freeplay
-
On 2019-02-03 at 8:19 AM, rune_me said:
To be fair, I've never used a single one of the features you've listed for Steam. Hell the only thing I've ever used Steam for was as a place to launch my games from. Epic Store and GOG does that just as well.
Cloud saving and universal controller support. I've even used the streaming app to project on to my living room tv (was awesome).
-
1 hour ago, (XB1)The Neko Otaku said:
Some explanation on what the element did would of been better like which could combo off each other would've been great.
that too. But i'm expecting a fleshed out tutorial so hopefully that will solve that issue.
-
On 2019-02-04 at 7:00 PM, (XB1)The Neko Otaku said:
I think I'm going to pass on anthem now. The combat was lacking and didn't give me any hook to latch on to. Alot of the enemies in strongholds were these bullet sponges littered everywhere and i just realised im playing destiny again but with jetpacks that don't suck.
Yeah... they could have done a better job at explaining the combo system which turns those bullet sponges into smeared confetti in seconds...
People, people - Anthem Demo vs Warframe after 5 years of very active development isn't even a competition. Lets A. wait for the full release before passing judgement and B. stop the usual b*** 'ma bases is better' arguments. I personally liked the demo and will most likely buy it. Won't stop me from playing WF. Will stop me from playing Destiny 2 because I'm still annoyed with Bungie over its networking issues but that doesn't mean I'll trash the game.... except Fortnite, that game deserves to die.
-
While its still early days, it looks like Epic's store just might be a success. It keeps pulling these left field moves that get people intrigued enough to give it a try. Plus it hosts Fortnite which whatever your opinion of that game, is still an industry beast. With Metro and Div 2 to be released exclusively on the platform as well as some other interesting titles, maybe DE might consider a move onto it ala Discord?
-
1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:
1) What's your point? I don't personally think that excuses the bloodshed sigil.
2) Again, I don't see the point. It's still a virtually worthless cosmetic made to be the centrepiece of an expensive bundle. I consider anyone who says they got value for money a liar as far as the sigil is concerned (which is certainly bitter of me), and the situation to be a darn sight shadier than microtransactions in Anthem.
"Here, look at this great and unique cosmetic you can purchase. Timed exclusive to the bundle!"
Purchase it, realise that you need to take 50 billion damage for it to be noticeable, regret purchase.
3) Recently "leaked".
People are crying about the premium cost of the skins, but seemingly overlooking the fact that they can be bought in game, and that afaik none of us actually know what the price of the premium currency is.
truth, though i'm not as salty about the bundle as you. Overall I've noticed this tendency to get tribal about games when there's no need. I routinely cycle through 6 games at a time (unless I'm playing a rpg) to keep sane. If I purchase Anthem (which is looking very likely), it'll join in that rotation. Hasn't stopped me from supporting WF at all as I still log in and play everyday.
-
4 hours ago, Gnlstorm said:
How can u judge a game just by looking? ThE full games is still not release so how can u know it great? because of graphic? warframe is improving the graphic. because of combat? warframe will shine after melee3.0 currently warframe combat also look good as well u train well. movement? dun need to compare warframe movement is one of the most unique and best. customization? tbh warframe customization is better u saw those fashion player make their warframe so nice looking and the anthem skin is not looking nice. What i want to say is u can like the game maybe because it suit your style but never never said it better because DE truely shown us warframe still can evolve and warframe still haven reach their final form....
did you play WF way back when it was first released? I did, and boy was it awful. But it has improved through hard work and the constant comms between fans and devs. However to get it to this point also required a few fans to see enough potential to get through founders stage (effectively paying for the first copies) and then a few more fans sticking with it to make it financially viable.
Now Anthem is a AAA game - made by an industry name and published by an industry power house. They've chosen to not go down DEs financial model because it simply doesn't fit what they're trying to do which pay once for the base game and all other story led expansions of which are already working on, will be free. I'm willing to judge the game on the basis of an alpha, a demo and further exploration of the game this weekend when the open demo is released. It doesn't mean i'm going to drop WF, it simply means i'm going to approach my leisure time like an adult. My advice - leave others to their personal choices.
-
2 hours ago, Fugana said:
Warframe's graphics are laughable at best, they really need to ditch this barely working game engine and switch to something good with stunning visuals and good optimization.
WF graphics are fine and the engine is pretty optimised, a lot more so than it's supposed competitor D2
-
8 hours ago, Borg1611 said:
I'm waiting for the open demo, but I was shocked to learn there is no text chat, even in the PC version. Some claim it's in order to comply with a law, but that same law requires voice chat have STT, which they don't seem to have, so it would make no sense to use that law as an excuse not to have text chat when you're clearly not complying with the law anyway in your voice chat system.
For PC gamers, no text chat will be a deal breaker. Many people either don't want to use or can't use voice chat and will essentially have no way to communicate at all. I expect many who buy the game but haven't been keeping up on any details of it will be blown away by having no text chat in an online PC game that has a lot of group content. It's just the most insanely poor development choice I've ever seen made in gaming history if it's going live without such a basic feature. I expect it will result in a lot of refund demands from PC gamers.
Not necessarily. To be honest I can't type that fast and as multiplayer Anthem is defo more tactical than WF, voice chat is a better option for coordination. Of anything it gives me a valid excuse to get a headset.
So I was lucky enough to play both PC and Xbox versions of the VIP demo (as well as the alpha when it was released). Like others, day one release was frustrating to say the least. I got more connection joy from the console version than the PC version which leaves me to believe that EA and/or Bioware prioritised consoles over PC. Why? trying not to speculate but i'd hazard a guess that the most amount of pre sales were console and that's where they expected the traffic. They then embarked on a key giving spree which most likely was taken up by PC players. But any how I got to play 2 versions to contrast and compare.
so I'll deal with the first question - as an initial impression, is the game enough to take me away from WF? No. It has exceeded my expectations but not lived up to my hopes. It's a competent RPG light loot collecting MMO that looks stunning, handles like it should and provides enough challenge without me rage quitting in disgust. However, it very clearly has one target audience in mind, and that's not this community. This round displayed enough for me to log on during the open demo to check out more features and gears, and as long as they fix the server side issues, I can confidently say I'll be uninstalling D2. To summarise, if I had to equiv the game to a popular SF franchise - WF is Dune, hard to get into but when you do, you're a lifer; D2 is like the Starwars prequels and successors, promising much but a hot mess in the main except a few bits; and Anthem... it looks and feels like the Ironman trilogy, light on the outside till you dig a bit with enough of a story to keep you entertained. I'd say time and resource wise, I've got enough capacity to keep and play both Anthem and WF. However D2 is dead to me.
Now which version - the console version ran a solid 30fps with no stuttering and looked optimised. It was as beautiful as the PC version and most likely a bit more stable. The real question will be player population. As with it seems quite a few console based or versions of MMOs, player count can be an issue. Having said that, the console demo was well populated and I always got a squad with in a min of launching on day 2 (after the patch).
The PC version was a lot messier. I initially ran it on full feature mode until it started stuttering on the enemy heavy set piece scenes. After turning it down to medium, there was a drop in graphical fidelity but it still looked good and more importantly ran 50 - 60 fps dependent on workload. I'd say for those that want to replicate that scene in Ironman 2 with stark and Warmachine squaring off against the drones, then PC is your choice.
That's all I got for now.
-
On 2019-01-15 at 5:57 PM, (XB1)SilverSurferGuy said:
I don’t think it’ll make much of a difference either. But I think DE might have some competition in the future with bungie, not EA. Bungie just became an independent studio so now that they’re free from Activision they might actually put something out worthwhile. But who knows when that will be? EA is a different story IMO. Sure anthem is around the corner, but given EA’s track record, I suspect anthem will under preform. I expect it’ll come with over priced deluxe editions, micro transactions (possibly loot boxes), and the game itself will launch in an incomplete state (functional or content wise).
Depends - everyone assumes it was Activision that was the problem based on gamers bias (with justification) towards publishers. Considering Destiny 2 STILL has the same networking issues it had since launch on both PC and console, add to that the need to have players test the latest offering as a beta AFTER paying for a annual pass, I'm not sure it was all Activision doing the big bad. And lets not mention current player count, which some estimates by gaming sites have put it well down from launch and even the momentary blip caused by Forsaken has decreased. Personally, Bungie burnt a lot of bridges with the initial release, and the unresolved issues for what is meant to be a 3A product is embarrassing.
As for EA - i don't know how many times I need to say this but everything about Anthem has been released - yes there will be deluxe editions like every game release for the last 10 years. However EA and Bioware have publicly gone ot of their way to emphasis 'no loot boxes' and all MT is limited to cosmetics. As for launch, the game might very well be incomplete, but considering Bioware and EA have stated all DLC will be free, it wont be like the release of Curse of Osiris or Warmind - charging full game prices for limited expansion packs.
-
On 2019-01-13 at 8:37 PM, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:
I'm not talking about Warframe movement, though. I'm talking about Archwing flight. Archwing flight has no bearing on "remote operator in Warframe" type movement.
Apologies I include flight as a movement. Should have clarified that.
-
On 2019-01-12 at 6:12 AM, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:
The existence of the cooldown mechanic and the actual way the Javelins fly are different issues. I wasn't a big fan of the cooldown mechanic, but all I'll say about the Alpha is that, barring some technical issues, the way the Javelins fly is what I want to see for archwing (basically, the animations and how they turn). If Warframe's archwings can fly/move better than they do now, and at least as good as the javelins in Anthem, then Archwing will be in a much more comfortable place where it is at least enjoyable to fly around.
oh I liked the way the javelins handled but I wouldn't bring that kind of movement to Warframe due to the differences in aesthetic and intent between the two - Anthem is more ironman esque while Warframe is matrix'y. I'd expect that heavy 'I am wearing a powered suit' feel in Anthem vs 'I'm a remote operator in Warframe' type of movement.
-
1 hour ago, Pr1A said:
And you actually trust them?
Besides, MTX is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to bulls*it monetization practices. Even if they keep their promise regarding MTX, there's a good chance they will lock great amount of content behind pricey DLC packs.
does no one read press releases - Bioware and EA have stated that the ONLY monetisation beyond buying the base product will be cosmetics which can be also be gained in game for no cost (obviously behind a grind wall). Any and all expansions will be released free of charge. Regardless of trust or not, that's the publisher AND developer's stated aim. Not delivering will impact on sales, and not even EA are that kamikaze = look at that very large and very free fix to BF2 that actually made the game worthwhile as evidence of a possible new approach.
-
8 hours ago, (XB1)SilverSurferGuy said:
Its from EA so it’ll likely have the following:
1. Micro transactions (loot boxes maybe?)
2. A season pass (or multiple, who knows?)
3. Bad upgrade systems that likely ties into micro transactions or will be a grindfest to upgrade
4. “Pride and Accomplishment”
5. An incomplete game at launch to meet deadlines so they can either patch it in with updates or sell it as DLC ONTOP of the DLC they actually planned for
6. A deluxe edition that gives instant access to gear that are unlockable via gameplay
There’s so much ill will towards EA and they deserve it. I’m not excited at all for anthem. Take a look at how horribly battlefield V flopped; and that’s one of their flagship franchises. There’s also battlefront 2 which was infamous for its loot boxes at launch. Don’t get too excited for anthem. Given EA’s track record, it’ll probably flop as well
1. limited to cosmetics
2. no - only money purchase will be base game
3. no - see above
4. no idea what you mean
5. possible with the first part, no to the rest - see above
6. yes - legion of dawn edition which is mostly cosmetic
-
1 hour ago, (XB1)SilverSurferGuy said:
Have you forgotten that it’s a game from EA? Have you seen their track record? Anthem will likely be incomplete at launch; either missing content or just buggy. Micro transaction are dead certain from anything EA, I just don’t know how it’ll be implemented. Over priced season passes and deluxe editions with instant access are sure to come out at launch as well. Take a look at battlefield 5. Poor marketing, the political and historical controversy, their divisive behavior, and once again missing content at launch all took its toll on the game; and battlefield is one of their flagship franchises. What makes you think anthem will be an exception to this? Thanks to EA’s position, anthem has no room to breathe. It either succeeds or fails. No in between. But I hope for Bioware’s sake that it does well. Am I excited though? Not at all.
Bioware has already stated numerous times that the only MTs will be cosmetic and even then you can earn them in game by completing event raids. They've also stated that you pay once for the base game and all expansions will be free.
On 2018-12-19 at 12:55 AM, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:The cooldown mechanic matters little compared to the flight model, which is the core element and most important part of the flight system. And in that area, Anthem is certainly better than Warframe.
Having played the alpha, I'll simply say I disagree and dislike the flight system.
Keeping my comments as bland as possible in order to not break the NDA and have EA sue my butt, these are my very general impressions on Anthem based on the Alpha:
Disliked the flight system based on the cool down mechanic - passed my feedback over to Bioware
Disliked the melee system. It felt clunky and tagged on - feedback passed to Bioware.
Loved the atmosphere. It really did feel like I was part of some epic story
Loved the overall movement of the Javelins minus melee.
Loved the synergy between powers and weapon systems. They defo looked at Bungie's initial screw up with weapon slot allocations and simplified it for the better. It almost feels Warframe like.
Loved the in player interactions - you'll see what I mean when you play the game.
There wasn't much evidence of the loot system but there were a few Destiny like resource farming.
All in all the Alpha played more like am ARPG then an objective based looter. I personally think it'll be more a 'Destiny vs Anthem; fight for our attention then a 'WF vs Anthem' one. However that's not to say all 3 can't occupy the same space and thrive. As for Div 2 - I was so disappointed with Div 1, I'm not sure I really want to revisit that IP.
DEs parent company is for sale apparantly. What could the future hold?
in General Discussion
Posted
That generates another question - how long has the 12.2% loss in revenue been going on? more than 5 years and I'd say DE is operating at a loss but the numbers you provided earlier say no. Unless we're not seeing the complete picture of operating costs to revenue = net profits?