Fed up with Sayrn being so stupid OP

[blacklusterseph]

1 hour ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Not quite true. with -40% Strength, spores damage would take a long time to build up.

That doesn't really address what I said. The power strength does not effect the lethality of spores. Moving the infection around is trivial, its just a matter of if you have the patience for that style of gameplay, which seems bizarrely disjointed from how the rest of the game works but whatever, to each his/her own.

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

You also have to shoot/melee/miasma said spores to get them to spread. Miasma is the worst way, as I'm not sure it has the bonus multiplier added this way. The best spores method is casting them multiple times, then toxic lash and melee.

Well no, toxic lash now works on your guns (in DE's infinite wisdom). While meager, before you would actually have to hit the spore. Given this, the lethality of what Spores will then do is set. Whether you trigger them with an unmodded Kraken or a decked out Lanka, it makes no difference, so there is no gear or build check either. The silliest thing about this in retrospect is that Saryn's killing potential got moved from modding and gear which is under player control, to the spawn patterns on various tilesets which players have no control over. Anyone who wants to call that good design: sorry, but I don't believe you.

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Most other warframe skills don't revolve around skill. So I don't really see your point. What powers are you comparing it to, that require skill? 

No comparison, just observation of something endemic to Warframe in general. Saryn is just an additional culprit, made more glaring after the rework.

This is the nature of the majority of the warframe player base unfortunately. When the pinnacle of fun is sitting in a cupboard for 20 minutes throwing abilities out of the door, then reworks like this are inevitable.

[WSPY]

Just a Saryn user passing by....

 

 

 

Lol.. Just kidding.. 

Saryn is one of the best damage dealing frame and that is why she is only available at the last planet (Sedna).

Honestly, (just an example) DE should at least rework public matchmaking by making MR25 players not matched with MR8 or below players unless invited... At least it will reduce complaints from new players..

[Azrael_V]

1 hour ago, blacklusterseph said:

That doesn't really address what I said. The power strength does not effect the lethality of spores. Moving the infection around is trivial, its just a matter of if you have the patience for that style of gameplay, which seems bizarrely disjointed from how the rest of the game works but whatever, to each his/her own.

Actually Power Strength actually does affect the lethality of spores. At higher levels spores simply serves as armor removal with slight damage especially since outside of ESO the damage ramp is useless due to enemy spawn issues. This is where a decent loadout comes in and why a lot of Saryn players favor decked out Zaws and similar weapons to do the actual killing

 

1 hour ago, blacklusterseph said:

Well no, toxic lash now works on your guns (in DE's infinite wisdom). While meager, before you would actually have to hit the spore. Given this, the lethality of what Spores will then do is set. Whether you trigger them with an unmodded Kraken or a decked out Lanka, it makes no difference, so there is no gear or build check either. 

.A bit of exaggeration here. While you could potentially use those weapons no decent player is going to, especially for popping spores. Its exactly a decent loadout that compliments Saryn so well. 

 

2 hours ago, blacklusterseph said:

The silliest thing about this in retrospect is that Saryn's killing potential got moved from modding and gear which is under player control, to the spawn patterns on various tilesets which players have no control over. Anyone who wants to call that good design: sorry, but I don't believe you.

It's called Balance and discourages the use of Saryn in all mission types. There are other frames that simply do a better job outside of ESO than Saryn. 

 

[blacklusterseph]

30 minutes ago, Azrael_V said:

Actually Power Strength actually does affect the lethality of spores. At higher levels spores simply serves as armor removal with slight damage especially since outside of ESO the damage ramp is useless due to enemy spawn issues. This is where a decent loadout comes in and why a lot of Saryn players favor decked out Zaws and similar weapons to do the actual killing

 

Your point would only have merit if the spore timed out, but it doesn't. The spore remains indefinitely as long as the target is alive. You have no need to do anything further for that spore to eventually do max damage. You literally do not have to interact with that enemy ever again. Wringing your hands about what zaw you want to bring is inconsequential to what that spore is going to do.

 

34 minutes ago, Azrael_V said:

A bit of exaggeration here. While you could potentially use those weapons no decent player is going to, especially for popping spores. Its exactly a decent loadout that compliments Saryn so well.

It's not exaggeration if that is precisely what the mechanics of the skills enables. If you take an unmodded kraken and shoot that spore, it will spread and do max damage if the enemy doesn't die first without further interaction from the player. That fact does no change regardless of who is doing it or why. Whatever the hypothetical 'decent player' (whatever the hell that means) would or would not do has no bearing on the function of that spore.

 

38 minutes ago, Azrael_V said:

It's called Balance and discourages the use of Saryn in all mission types. There are other frames that simply do a better job outside of ESO than Saryn.

I literally cannot believe what I am reading. So your notion of 'balance' is discouraging the use of a frame outside of certain mission types? I'm not sure I even want to probe any further into how you arrived at that revelation.

[Azrael_V]

14 minutes ago, blacklusterseph said:

Your point would only have merit if the spore timed out, but it doesn't. The spore remains indefinitely as long as the target is alive. You have no need to do anything further for that spore to eventually do max damage. You literally do not have to interact with that enemy ever again. Wringing your hands about what zaw you want to bring is inconsequential to what that spore is going to do.

In theory yes but who wants to wait for the enemy do die from spores when using your weapon in addition is more effective especially since Warframe gameplay is very fast paced. No game mode will ever allow you to reach the 75k damage scaling cap. In game modes outside of ESO like Survival you actually have to kill the enemies faster than your spores because you have life support to consider. So again in theory its possible but its not entirely practical.

 

27 minutes ago, blacklusterseph said:

It's not exaggeration if that is precisely what the mechanics of the skills enables. If you take an unmodded kraken and shoot that spore, it will spread and do max damage if the enemy doesn't die first without further interaction from the player. That fact does no change regardless of who is doing it or why. Whatever the hypothetical 'decent player' (whatever the hell that means) would or would not do has no bearing on the function of that spore.

Same point as above. What you're saying is true in theory but practically is not feasible for well rounded gameplay. You seem to be focusing on aspects of her abilities taken to their extremes, disregarding the fact that you would gimp your gameplay in doing so. An unmodded Kraken in ESO can only take you that far in practical terms. In fact I would say good luck cos' you're gonna need it. 

 

53 minutes ago, blacklusterseph said:

I literally cannot believe what I am reading. So your notion of 'balance' is discouraging the use of a frame outside of certain mission types? I'm not sure I even want to probe any further into how you arrived at that revelation.

'Balance' in the sense that it creates a downside for the frame and encourages the use of others instead. For instance, not having invisibility discourages the use of certain frames for Spy missions. The player has no control over that either. In fact,  why would DE not create downsides to the various frames that are beyond the player's control. They do it so you can use something else. Why would DE even care to release 40 plus frames when one is all you need. Some frames are obviously better at somethings than others and it works that way for good reason. 

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

17 hours ago, blacklusterseph said:

That doesn't really address what I said. The power strength does not effect the lethality of spores. 

Except that it does. Spores get downgraded to 4 damage per second. .8 increase per enemy, and completely shatters the status chance. 

4 Damage per second might be a threat to level 1 enemies. But will have no effect to level 30s who have around 1000 health if I recall. Unless you want to wait 250 seconds for that enemy to die from spores alone -4 minutes, just... fyi. 
 

17 hours ago, blacklusterseph said:

Moving the infection around is trivial, its just a matter of if you have the patience for that style of gameplay, which seems bizarrely disjointed from how the rest of the game works but whatever, to each his/her own.

Moving an infection that is only spread by Ai movement, that you have no control over.... You can infect additional enemies, Moving it, is a whole other issue. It's why Saryn's mod for range...  You would think that a game as fast paced as Warframe would encourage the potential Saryn has. Yet here you are.... Fast kills sounds great in survivals, or excavations. Disjointed? Only thing disjointed is your logic. 

17 hours ago, blacklusterseph said:

Well no, toxic lash now works on your guns (in DE's infinite wisdom). While meager, before you would actually have to hit the spore. Given this, the lethality of what Spores will then do is set. Whether you trigger them with an unmodded Kraken or a decked out Lanka, it makes no difference, so there is no gear or build check either. The silliest thing about this in retrospect is that Saryn's killing potential got moved from modding and gear which is under player control, to the spawn patterns on various tilesets which players have no control over. Anyone who wants to call that good design: sorry, but I don't believe you.

So I need you to pick a point and stick with it. A moment ago you said moving the infection is easy. Now you say it all depends on the spawn patterns of the map. Can you get your argument straight? If the spawns are across the map, and in the worst possible scenario for you, there's one way to fix that? You use gear. There's a simple "gear check" called spreading spores and the "Check", is seeing if you get another target effected with range.. that you mod. A base Saryn with no forma, no potato, is basically harmless. That's why the average Saryn Prime Build on Warframe builder has 3-4 forma, on a frame that already has multiple polarity slots. Leveling a warframe 4-5 times, better have it be powerful. 120-150 levels plus potato, exilus, and all that time getting mods farmed and maxed? 

The Average Saryn build is 200% Strength, and 250% range. So you have 100% status chance on spores, large spread range, and good damage per second. Melee is the best method for Saryn, as you you get double the damage, from toxic lash, and can slide melee to spread spores quickly. You don't even have to aim. Most Saryns people complain of, are the Saryn's people have put work into. 

I used to have a friend who complained that his warframe never really contributed, and blamed me for it. Then I found out, he never forma-ed his weapons, or frames. He was competing with nothing more than an intensify and some health mods. Maybe try spending half the time that Saryn did in bringing out their capabilities then complaining about it. 
 

17 hours ago, blacklusterseph said:

No comparison, just observation of something endemic to Warframe in general. Saryn is just an additional culprit, made more glaring after the rework.

This is the nature of the majority of the warframe player base unfortunately. When the pinnacle of fun is sitting in a cupboard for 20 minutes throwing abilities out of the door, then reworks like this are inevitable.

Hate to break it to you, and your narrative. Observation is all a matter of perspective. You can't say "This doesn't take skill" when you have nothing else to compare it to. If it takes as much skill as everything else, it's a mute, meaningless argument. Aiming in the vague direction of enemies is enough to kill them in Warframe with most weapons is sufficient, like the Ignis Wraith, the Atomos, the amprex, every explosive weapon... not requiring aim at all. 

If you can aim, you can accomplish 99% of abilities in most other games. Like Destiny with half their powers being straight up nigh identical to other Warframe powers with quirks. Flying Exalted Blade, A ground pound, a dash, A quick Anti Matter Strike, or A bow shot that tethers enemies... So much skill required... 

People in Warframe don't want skill dependent abilities. That isn't what the nerf is about. I would encourage you to show me a single ability in a shooter that requires skill that people enjoy. 

The nature of the Warframe player base is having a loud, vocal minority complaining about things that are relatively inoffensive. While the large majority of the player base, is happy running through a quick mission as fast as possible, and progressing further in the grind. I don't particularly like defense missions, (sitting in a cupboard for 20 minutes) and Saryn is nice to have to speed it up with how slow the enemy waves spawn. 

[SilverTama]

i was saryn main. current saryn is boring, i miss sniper gas saryn

[BiTrektual]

On 2018-09-15 at 1:14 PM, Mattakadeimos said:

Like seriously if a Saryn player is in a mission type like defense, you may as well go afk. There's no fun in watching corpses explode and not doing any of the killing yourself. Its boring.

Its not just defense, any mission, oh look its Saryn. Might as well kiss any kills and just watch and wait till end of mission.

There is no other frame atm that can do such wholesale slaughter.

No, I'm not a Saryn main btw, she doesn't suit my playstyle. But you know dialling back her abilities to bring them in line with all the other frames would be nice.

Its either that or insta kick anyone playing as saryn from the games I'm in. No fun for anyone.

Come on DE sort it out.

Saryn isn't innately OP, you have to ramp up your damage to have any effect, and that ramp up is like 2 damage per enemy effected. Yea, shes sustainable DPS, but there are others that can easily outshine her for nuking maps. Mesa, Limbo (Low level), Equinox, Octavia, and Volt are all offenders in that regard. Hell, Mesa and Volt can easily out do Saryn. She has better energy efficiency, but they can do just as much if not more.