My Opinion On Nerfs And Buffs

[ultrabomb9]

Many and i mean many in the community are always looking to nerf things. i mean seriously people THIS IS A CO OP GAME not a PVP.  things can be op as they want, making it feel op gives you a feeling of personal satisfication.  if there was no op or amazing S#&$ how would we survive level 75 xini where even one magazine of the acrid does only a sixth of an ancient's health.  so come on people stop complaining and appreciate frames such as nova.  here i will defend loot in this game people say need a nerf.

 

NOVA- she is an antimatter frame.  of course she was made to manipulate the atoms contained in any organism.  she is meant to create a powerful explosion by splitting the nuclei to create a massive explosion.  she does not need a nerf because she fullfills her name and her purpose in the battlefield were justified. 

 

OGRIS- it's a damn rocket launcher for god sake what do you expect.  it is meant to bring destruction to a battlefield and kill multiple enemies.  rocket launchers in fact do that much damage.  rockets are lightweight and powerful which makes it capable of generating large amounts of energy which causes a release of destruction on the battlefield.

(second hardest weapon to get in the game next to supra)

 

ACRID- it has a dot which stacks yes i know that...  use this on an ancient in level 70 defense and you will see how weak it truly is.  It is balanced with it's low base damage and can be outdpsed by other high base damage faster fire rate secondaries.  it is a poison weapon and they are meant to apply venom which deals damage over time.  people shouldn't be complaining because the toxic ancients which are also poisonous deal damage to your health ignoring your shields something this weapon doesn't. (2ND hardest weapon to get in the game or par with others)

 

BUFFS

People in this game constantly complain about buffs.  people we need diversity brought to these weapons and frames.  all these frames bring unique powers to the world.  so what if the vulkar has bullet damage.  it does not need to be balanced with the other snipers with serrated blade.  people are litterly getting to the point where some even believe that starting weapons like the mk1 braton should be equal to a weapon like a flux rifle.  if all weapons and frames were balanced there is no joy you recieve from grinding.

 

 

[Hayden11121]

1: Antimatter has nothing to do with "organisms in any creature"

2: We can carry 70 arrows, 545 rockets. Oh, but rockets are silent.

3: Acrid. Deals wayyyy to much damage. Trivializes the game.

4: We need buffs for some things. But no one wants an MK 1 Braton to equal a Flux Rifle, we just don't want straight upgrades, like Burston -> Hind.

 

Overall, I'd give this a -1

[andboomgoestheydynamite]

1: Antimatter has nothing to do with "organisms in any creature"

2: We can carry 70 arrows, 545 rockets. Oh, but rockets are silent.

3: Acrid. Deals wayyyy to much damage. Trivializes the game.

4: We need buffs for some things. But no one wants an MK 1 Braton to equal a Flux Rifle, we just don't want straight upgrades, like Burston -> Hind.

 

Overall, I'd give this a -1

^

First of all, they plan on implementing pvp in the near future and just because this game is pve does not mean that we should 1 hit everything. If we made it as simple as that we may as well pick up rocks and go on killing frenzies.

Edited September 4, 2013 by andboomgoestheydynamite

[Anatolius]

If that were the case you would pretty much just have to remove every frame from the game except nova

remove every weapon except ogris and acrid and maybe duel zorens

 

and that's it

thats the game.

[ultrabomb9]

Response to Hayden

 

1. antimatter is molecules consisted of antiprotons, antinuertrons, and postrions.  Though it does not exist in our universe if it was able to it can manipulate the atoms of an organism.

 

2. Ogris is not able to pick up any ammo and has to last with 545 rockets for however long.  If you go to wave 50 plus defense you are bound to run out of rockets.  So therefore it is justified.

 

3. Acrid does way too much damage?  Try it on xini wave 50 plus.  armor scaling takes damage away too fast and too much.  also the dot from elements can be affected by specific body parts of an enemy.  

[Hayden11121]

Response to Hayden

 

1. antimatter is molecules consisted of antiprotons, antinuertrons, and postrions.  Though it does not exist in our universe if it was able to it can manipulate the atoms of an organism.

 

2. Ogris is not able to pick up any ammo and has to last with 545 rockets for however long.  If you go to wave 50 plus defense you are bound to run out of rockets.  So therefore it is justified.

 

3. Acrid does way too much damage?  Try it on xini wave 50 plus.  armor scaling takes damage away too fast and too much.  also the dot from elements can be affected by specific body parts of an enemy.  

So 1: Can mess with atoms = Can mess with all atoms? Lol no.

 

2: Ogris runs out of ammo quicker then a paris would? Lol no.

3: Acrid doesn't do a lot of damage? Compare it to something else then. Lol no.

[Anatolius]

- You will have to give people more than " she is meant to create a powerful explosion by splitting the nuclei to create a massive explosion" if you are going to convince them that Nova doesnt need a nerf. She is powerful the way she is because she is fragile. That is a fact. Like an AntiLoki (see what I did) I love her but the more I see it, the more I can see how she might need a nerf on Molecular Prime (like taking off the half speed)

 

-Where did you get this information from? You pick up rifle ammo. And if you dont have that you use ammo boxes.

 

-I have used an unmodded Acrid in a T3 Defense (it was an accident) but I did fine all the same. Compared to some other unmodded weapons that is ungodly impressive.

[-Naero-]

Response to Hayden

 

1. antimatter is molecules consisted of antiprotons, antinuertrons, and postrions.  Though it does not exist in our universe if it was able to it can manipulate the atoms of an organism.

 

2. Ogris is not able to pick up any ammo and has to last with 545 rockets for however long.  If you go to wave 50 plus defense you are bound to run out of rockets.  So therefore it is justified.

 

3. Acrid does way too much damage?  Try it on xini wave 50 plus.  armor scaling takes damage away too fast and too much.  also the dot from elements can be affected by specific body parts of an enemy.  

This is all so wrong lol. 1 is kinda there but only at the start, either way, nerf molecular prime. =D

[gell]

Yet another thread with the same illogical reasoning. What you call nerfs or buffs are really just balance. Nerfs are good. Buffs are good. Balance is good. That doesn't mean nothing should be more powerful than anything else, but there needs to be general pocket of balance.

 

I'm not on any nerf trains, so no need to cram me into one group, but the idea that it's somehow PvE means designers don't need to consider balance is shortsighted. What is that about Ogris not picking up ammo? What? I never ever have less than 500 ammo with the Ogris. I never even come close to running out of ammo on Outer Terminus, Xini, or T3 Void Defense. Nothing the OP has said makes any sense (seriously, did they just change the Ogris today? I was using it during the survival event and I always had 510 ammo or more). And Acrid is the strongest single target gun in the game right now, nothing even comes close. I shoot a few syringes into a level 70 ancient, look away, and it dies after a few seconds. Might want to look into your mods if you can't do that.

 

The only thing that made any lick of sense is that a strong weapon does give a sense of satisfaction, but that doesn't mean it needs to be much much stronger than other weapons. The MK1-Braton aside, no weapons need to be completely useless. It's a good thing you're not a game designer (oh I hope not) because that logic is seriously toxic to games. Games need balance, not just for PvP. ALL GAMES.

Edited September 4, 2013 by gell

[ultrabomb9]

i have a 5 time formaed acrid of course i can dispatch a level 70 ancient like i can do with any weapon.  I also have maxed everything too....   You think balance is good.  if balance was good what would be the point of getting a black widow sniper in mass effect 3 or getting a legendary weapon in borderlands 2.  THAT'S RIGHT NOTHING.  grinding is the main thing that makes this game addictive.  no need to nerf weapons and frames like these.  For some of the hardest 2 weapons to get in this game acrid and ogris and so worth it....

[whitejackale]

Many and i mean many in the community are always looking to nerf things. i mean seriously people THIS IS A CO OP GAME not a PVP.  things can be op as they want, making it feel op gives you a feeling of personal satisfication.  if there was no op or amazing S#&$ how would we survive level 75 xini where even one magazine of the acrid does only a sixth of an ancient's health.  so come on people stop complaining and appreciate frames such as nova.  here i will defend loot in this game people say need a nerf.

 

NOVA- she is an antimatter frame.  of course she was made to manipulate the atoms contained in any organism.  she is meant to create a powerful explosion by splitting the nuclei to create a massive explosion.  she does not need a nerf because she fullfills her name and her purpose in the battlefield were justified. 

 

OGRIS- it's a damn rocket launcher for god sake what do you expect.  it is meant to bring destruction to a battlefield and kill multiple enemies.  rocket launchers in fact do that much damage.  rockets are lightweight and powerful which makes it capable of generating large amounts of energy which causes a release of destruction on the battlefield.

(second hardest weapon to get in the game next to supra)

 

ACRID- it has a dot which stacks yes i know that...  use this on an ancient in level 70 defense and you will see how weak it truly is.  It is balanced with it's low base damage and can be outdpsed by other high base damage faster fire rate secondaries.  it is a poison weapon and they are meant to apply venom which deals damage over time.  people shouldn't be complaining because the toxic ancients which are also poisonous deal damage to your health ignoring your shields something this weapon doesn't. (2ND hardest weapon to get in the game or par with others)

 

BUFFS

People in this game constantly complain about buffs.  people we need diversity brought to these weapons and frames.  all these frames bring unique powers to the world.  so what if the vulkar has bullet damage.  it does not need to be balanced with the other snipers with serrated blade.  people are litterly getting to the point where some even believe that starting weapons like the mk1 braton should be equal to a weapon like a flux rifle.  if all weapons and frames were balanced there is no joy you recieve from grinding.

1) Games need balancing in order to be enjoyable. It does not matter if they are pvp or pve. Balancing is required in order to make a game challenging while at the same time making it possible to beat it.

 

2) So what is nova is an anti matter warframe? Creating warframes with a certain theme does not mean that the theme supersedes game balancing. By you logic ember should be able to cast one ability and kill everything on a ship so long as there is enough oxygen for everything to burn.

 

3) Rocket launchers should definitely do some of the highest damage in the game, but that does not mean that players should be able to carry 500 rockets on them. 

 

4) People are asking for acrid to be nerfed because it does so much more dps than other weapons.

 

5) Games can be enjoyable with no grinding involved. Saying that the game needs a continuous supply of more powerful weapons in order to remain enjoyable because of the grind is plain stupid. 

 

The main thing that I understood from your post is that you have no idea what balancing is for.

[neKroMancer]

Looking at the overall impact a content brought into the game is a way to deal with balance.

 

"She is supposed explode things up and I don't care about the rest of the game" argument isn't sound. In fact, it has no basis which can be used to convince other players to agree with you. I have Nova, I played her a lot and I still see her as an anomaly in the game in term of balance. Her M.prime is impressive, sure thing. Compared to other powers like Volt's and Ember's, it's almost godlike. 

 

There is no reason to play Volt, no reason to keep him, no reason to buy him, and no reason to farm him. Therefore, the game's overall choice is lessen and diversity which should be the game's selling point is lowered. Profit goes down. That's enough reason to look for balancing the game.

 

How to balance it is another matter entirely.

 

Many have been asking for buff, many has been asking for nerf. I have to ask; How would you bring Overload and other 4th to M.prime level? M.prime has three components: Debuff, Damage, and low CC. Even Stomp and Miasma which are regard as top-tier 4th has two components, CC and damage. DE did make Nova to serve too many functions at once. I think cut the CC component, lower the explosion range (15 meter is extremely large, even more with Stretch) and buff AMD as her main damage power would be a good way out. 

 

Weapons suffer from the same fate. Using ME3MP as example is fine with me, I managed to clock 500 hours into the game. I have to ask you one thing.

 

Do you remember Krysae infiltrator?

 

What happened there serve as a reminder that looking at overall impact of the content is the way to deal with balance. Krysae alone is fine, Infiltrator alone is fine but when two components mixed together and practically allowed player to one shot two to three marauders at once on Gold - surely something did go wrong there. Krysae was brought down and Infiltrator was heavily nerfed to the point that player has to choose between utility and damage which was a good thing.

 

Even Black widow which you mentioned in OP still subjected to balance. Widow has 1240 damage per shot at level 10 while Black widow only has 923 damage per shot but able to shoot three times without reloading.

 

PvE and PvP require balance to be enjoyable, especially in online game which diversity actually matters.

[PaperAlien]

Many and i mean many in the community are always looking to nerf things. i mean seriously people THIS IS A CO OP GAME not a PVP.  things can be op as they want, making it feel op gives you a feeling of personal satisfication.  if there was no op or amazing S#&$ how would we survive level 75 xini where even one magazine of the acrid does only a sixth of an ancient's health.  so come on people stop complaining and appreciate frames such as nova.  here i will defend loot in this game people say need a nerf.

 

NOVA- she is an antimatter frame.  of course she was made to manipulate the atoms contained in any organism.  she is meant to create a powerful explosion by splitting the nuclei to create a massive explosion.  she does not need a nerf because she fullfills her name and her purpose in the battlefield were justified. 

 

OGRIS- it's a damn rocket launcher for god sake what do you expect.  it is meant to bring destruction to a battlefield and kill multiple enemies.  rocket launchers in fact do that much damage.  rockets are lightweight and powerful which makes it capable of generating large amounts of energy which causes a release of destruction on the battlefield.

(second hardest weapon to get in the game next to supra)

 

ACRID- it has a dot which stacks yes i know that...  use this on an ancient in level 70 defense and you will see how weak it truly is.  It is balanced with it's low base damage and can be outdpsed by other high base damage faster fire rate secondaries.  it is a poison weapon and they are meant to apply venom which deals damage over time.  people shouldn't be complaining because the toxic ancients which are also poisonous deal damage to your health ignoring your shields something this weapon doesn't. (2ND hardest weapon to get in the game or par with others)

 

BUFFS

People in this game constantly complain about buffs.  people we need diversity brought to these weapons and frames.  all these frames bring unique powers to the world.  so what if the vulkar has bullet damage.  it does not need to be balanced with the other snipers with serrated blade.  people are litterly getting to the point where some even believe that starting weapons like the mk1 braton should be equal to a weapon like a flux rifle.  if all weapons and frames were balanced there is no joy you recieve from grinding.

Nova is overpowered because antimatter is a mysterious sciency thing and therefore should be overpowered? Great logic there.

If you think acrid kills level 70 Ancients slowly, you have obviously never even tried using any other weapon on them.

So.... we shouldn't nerf, and we also shouldn't buff? This is a new one. You're basically saying "don't improve the game."

[Specimen2561]

Many and i mean many in the community are always looking to nerf things. i mean seriously people THIS IS A CO OP GAME not a PVP.  things can be op as they want, making it feel op gives you a feeling of personal satisfication.  if there was no op or amazing S#&$ how would we survive level 75 xini where even one magazine of the acrid does only a sixth of an ancient's health.  so come on people stop complaining and appreciate frames such as nova.  here i will defend loot in this game people say need a nerf.

 

NOVA- she is an antimatter frame.  of course she was made to manipulate the atoms contained in any organism.  she is meant to create a powerful explosion by splitting the nuclei to create a massive explosion.  she does not need a nerf because she fullfills her name and her purpose in the battlefield were justified. 

Well said sir. Well said indeed.

[A1CZERO]

The OP is just another example of people complaining about things they clearly don't understand.

[ultrabomb9]

i said level 70 DEFENSE which has level 430 ancients.  to kill an ancient there you have to use at least 7 mags of the acrid....

[Lumireaver]

Buffs and nerfs are merely tools to preserve a greater concept known as "balance."

 

I think of them in the same way I would think of a hammer, screwdriver, or bitmap editor. 

[neKroMancer]

i said level 70 DEFENSE which has level 430 ancients.  to kill an ancient there you have to use at least 7 mags of the acrid....

Using an example which is clearly out of control isn't a good example. Using endless defense as an argument is simply pointless largely because there is no end to the enemy durability. Balance the game around progressive variable is impossible. One can say that Acrid isn't effective against Lv 500 Ancient but no one is going to take that seriously. At that point, everything is obsolete and you're meant to die anyway.

The point is, we don't know where the boundary is. DE may simply use lv 60-70 as a balance point and anything further is just for pure challenge factor.

Please, look around the internet about game balance before posting.