"2V2 Pvp" - Steve

[MXultra]

Back on 8/15 I made a post that 2v2 had much more potential and that the added complexity actually helped to balance PvP. The thread was quickly derailed by anti-pvp forum members. But now that Steve has said that this is actually coming, can we have a proper discussion about it?

 

Here is the original post:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/96006-2v2-and-other-pvp-possibilities/

 

Here are the highlights:

 

-Each team has a Commander and a Retainer.

-If the Retainer dies, the Commander can revive them by running over them (they don't need to hold X) and taking an addition penalty (health, shield, or energy loss).

-If the Commander dies, the round is lost.

 

The Commander/Retainer setup would yield tactics ranging from having a heavy Commander hang back and provide covering fire as their Retainer advances to engage the enemy Retainer and then the enemy Commander.

 

Conversely, you might see a fast/lightly armored Commander running evasive maneuvers around the environment as their heavy Retainer moves to engage. If their Retainer drops, all focus will be on the Commander, so it will be a priority to get to their downed ally and rez them. This creates a situation where the enemy team can fox-guard the downed Retainer, which also gives more opportunity for Ash and Loki to make use of their stealth/trickery in PvP.

 

Another possibility is that you might see a Commander and Retainer both try to bum-rush the enemy Commander.

 

So that's my idea (again). Anyone have legitimate feedback or an idea of their own for 2v2?

 

PART TWO: The viable PvP abilities.

 

Each frame should be limited to having two abilities in PvP. This is not a problem for most frames because a couple abilities are usually useless or OP in PvP. Here are my suggestions for what each frame's abilities should be:

 

 

Ash: shuriken + smoke bomb

(you could make the argument for teleport, but I don't think most people would)

 

Banshee: sonic boom + soundquake

(soundquake would work if it did low damage and continual stagger)

 

Ember: fireball + overheat

(the larger AOE spells would be boring)

 

Excalibur: slash dash + radial javelin

(not much can be said for blind and super jump)

 

Frost: freeze + ice wave

(snow globe is broken)

 

Loki: invisibility + switch teleport

(might be more fun than it sounds)

 

Mag: pull + shield polarize

(might be good with new Mag, other skills are OP)

 

Nova: nullstar + portal

(nullstar might be tough, but drop + mprime...)

 

Nyx: psychic bolts + absorb

(the only possibilities unless you can mind control their sentinel)

 

Rhino: rhino charge + rhino stomp

(roar and iron skin would probably be OP)

 

Saryn: venom + contagion

(molt ain't foolin' no one)

 

Trinity: well of life + energy vampire

(her other skills would be broken)

 

Vauban: tesla + vortex

(assuming vortex just messes up gravity the way it does on friendlies + small damage)

 

Volt: shock + shield

(i'm guessing speed up would be broken)

 

Across the board, weapon and skill damage in PvP should be scaled to maybe 1/3rd to make battles last more than a few seconds. Ults might need some additional damage nerfing in PvP because not all frames can use their Ult.

Edited September 4, 2013 by MXultra

[sh0Zz]

Well it would be a start but I don't really like this PvP Game Mode and I also think 2vs2 is not enough.

 

They should just add a normal CTF 4vs4 Game Mode, that would be awesome!

 

With all Powers disabled of course.

Edited September 4, 2013 by .fraGmepleaZz

[Rikage]

All powers disabled? Oh, hell no! That's part of the thing that makes every frame out there unique.
But I wouldn't complain too much if there was an option to disable sentinels (they're kinda annoying on duels, and only deathcube sees much use on pvps anyway).

[sh0Zz]

All powers disabled? Oh, hell no! That's part of the thing that makes every frame out there unique.

But I wouldn't complain too much if there was an option to disable sentinels (they're kinda annoying on duels, and only deathcube sees much use on pvps anyway).

 

But think about Vauban's Bastille.

 

How could you implement that in Pvp ?

 

Throw Bastille and your Enemy goes in the Air for the next 20 seconds ?

 

That would be the most ridicolous CC in a Game ever, no way.

[Aramet]

@Rikage and .fraGmepleaZz

 

They could just add a customize option to enable or disable sentinels/powers, and I think they mentioned this once. I don't know how likely the chances are for it to be a feature, but it's a thought to accommodate both sides. But, as with 1v1 in the dojo, it's your full ninja skills against each other; a for-fun sparring match with no restrictions. Except you one-shot each other most of the time, guns or abilities.

 

Also, .fraGmepleaZz, some skills already act differently in pvp. For Bastille in 1v1, it slows the enemy down much like Snow Globe, rather than lifts them.

[sh0Zz]

 

Also, .fraGmepleaZz, some skills already act differently in pvp. For Bastille in 1v1, it slows the enemy down much like Snow Globe, rather than lifts them.

 

Oh ok thanks for that Info, haven't fought versus a Vauban yet :)

[MXultra]

I added the skill restriction section to the first post, feel free to give feedback on that as well.

[Tyesos]

If I had a vote I would want really large battles with options of having 4v4s etc  and Clan Vs Clan battles 

[MXultra]

Really large battles may sound like fun in the realm of the imagination, but you have to remember that this game was not designed for PvP and scaling up the number of Tenno would result in massive nuke stacks that would kill everyone through walls. Let's start with 2v2, that way we don't break the game too badly. 4v4 might be plausible once they've figured out 2v2, but I don't think it should ever go beyond that.

[RoboDoge]

There is no possiblitiy for anything that will have more than 4 players in game. Who will host games with more than 4 players, when even now people have problems with hosting games with 4 players.

 

That is the one of the reason why DE isnt going for bigger PvP matches. I am quite interested how powers will work in this 2vs2, there is no point in having something like Miasma, Bubble etc at full power.

[Tr1ples1xer]

PVP =NO

[jpvi1207]

PVP =NO

this

[MXultra]

Warframe will always be primarily co-op, but there is nothing wrong with having a decently interesting PvP mode.

 

 

I really don't understand why these numb-nutted neanderballs hate the idea so much. They seem incapable of explaining their view beyond "PVP = NO"...

 

This kind of feedback is of no valuable to DE, it just shows that you lack vision and that you are afraid of change. 

[RoboDoge]

Warframe will always be primarily co-op, but there is nothing wrong with having a decently interesting PvP mode.

 

 

I really don't understand why these numb-nutted neanderballs hate the idea so much. They seem incapable of explaining their view beyond "PVP = NO"...

 

This kind of feedback is of no valuable to DE, it just shows that you lack vision and that you are afraid of change. 

Non competitive PvP could be OK. But including leaderboards and scores would made flamers and idiots crawl from their holes.

[PazzMan]

 warframe abilities should change its effect in PVP modes, e.g vaubans bastille why not make it so when the enemy runs in vaubans bastille they get slow movement instead of floating in mid air ? 

XD sorry bad english

[Volt_Cruelerz]

I think I'd actually play that version of PVP in Warframe.  I like this.  If PVP would ever get fleshed out though, I feel like it'll need larger teams to be terribly fun (otherwise camping ensues and that's not terribly fun) and that may necessitate using dedicated servers which is money for DE.  Idk, maybe the threading they're doing will fix performance and they can get the bandwidth requirements for hosting down.  Unfortunately for the idea in the OP to be practical if dealing with random pairings and you just want a quick match, you'll need loadouts first.

 

Also, the most common argument against PVP in Warframe is that it detracts from the PVE aspect of the game by drawing DE's resources away from the PVE content.  While it is a valid concern, I feel like the money and customers gained/retained via PVP will pay for more work on the PVE and everyone wins.

Edited September 5, 2013 by Volt_Cruelerz

[Mastikator2]

No skill restriction. Just energy restriction. You start with 50 energy and blue orbs spawn sparsely, if you want to use an ultimate then you'll have to save for it.

 

I also agree that damage should be scaled down across the board, one-shotting someone should be hard, not easy.

[MXultra]

PvP will be something to do while you wait for your friend to finish a defense mission. Some people may get competitive with it, but if DE moves towards e-sports, I'm sure they'll have several PvE modes.

[BIossome]

2v2 is gonna suck if it's gonna be peer-to-peer. The lag will completely destroy this mode.

[whitejackale]

They should give the community the power to decide how they wish to pvp. What I mean by this is that we should be allowed to pvp with rulesets that we choose instead of being forced to play a very specific game mode. We should be able to create modifiers for pvp such as:

1) No shields.

2) No health.

3) No abilities.

4) No energy regen.

5) No primaries.

6) No secondaries.

7) No melee weapons.

 

They should also give us all of the classic fps game modes that are present in one way or another in most fps games.

[MageMeat]

2v2 is gonna suck if it's gonna be peer-to-peer. The lag will completely destroy this mode.

Automatic ping limits would most likely be set for optimal player experience.

But it shouldn't take you out if you start with low ping and it starts to rise.

Edited September 6, 2013 by MageMeat

[-Narauko-]

CTF - Oh god this would be good, though Loki and Ash are so OP for PvP its hilarious.

 

Rhino's another pain the &#!...Stomp...Float...charged melee...dead.

 

Cant wait for 2v2 and clan battles! Someone start a league already ^_^

[EirikAura]

You want an explanation as to why I don't want PvP? Simple. I had enough of that back in the early days of Doom, Quake, et al. I play Warframe because it's not PvP. I'm not interested in PvP and I don't have the skillset or mindset for it. As an option to the game, fine, like the Dojo fighting. As a prerequisite to playing - a 'roadblock' mission like the current defence, no. Never. I'll just skip them and get a clan member/friend to help me leapfrog those missions.

 

It's bad enough in a PUG when you have a d!ckwad who wants to do things exactly the opposite way to everyone else in the team. Add PvP into that and the trolls will reign supreme, and I'll be out.

[shopboy]

this type of game would go very well with CTF but there would have to be limits such as cooldowns on skills etc...

[Voidflow]

in before all abilities need cooldown

and then rebalance of skills