Open debate: Regarding the gameplay of Warframe, Existential crisis

[LoveGlover]

[ This post is not meant as an attack on what other players may hold dear about Warframe, it is intended to critically analyze the gameplay found in the game so that I may verify whether or not playing this game will leave me with some worthwhile real-world outcome for all the time I would need to still spend on it. If you choose to meet my enquiry with backlash I will ignore you because it does not serve to help me make an informed decision. ] 

So! Hi. I am new to the game, but my friends and friends' friends and friends' friends' friends have all been playing Warframe for a while, they have devoted many hours of their lives to the game and encourage me to do the same. My question is, why? When I look back at what I've done after years of playing Warframe what enrichment will I find that has been added to my life?

This question obviously goes out to the players who have been around a while and can actually answer it. 

I ask this because what I can see of the early to mid game feels like it's just Skinner's Box induced farming. [Skinner's Box for noobs: https://youtu.be/tWtvrPTbQ_c]

It feels like people just keep playing because they are conditioned to climb a figurative ladder that actually leads nowhere genuinely significant. Again I am not saying this to offend anyone, this is the experience I am getting from playing and I want to know if there's more to it than that. I want to know what real-world significance players who have been playing for a long time get from the game.

So, share your anecdotes with me, please. Share the things you love that make the years of your real life spent farming feel totally worth it. :)

Hope to hear some great tales and experiences. 

LoveGlover

[DeathDweller]

I find the whole topic ironic and a bit pointless but i'll answer:

Games are meant to be played either for fun, the feeling of accomplishment or now days for the stories they provide.

The only games that lead to something are the single player games(complete the story, beat the stages, feel accomplished, move to the next).

Online games never lead to anything cause their only true ending can be their cancellation/shutting down.

So what do you expect to get out of Warframe or any other online game that will enrich your real life idk.

So in the end, fun.

[LoveGlover]

 

11 hours ago, DeathDweller said:

I find the whole topic ironic and a bit pointless but i'll answer:

Games are meant to be played either for fun, the feeling of accomplishment or now days for the stories they provide.

The only games that lead to something are the single player games(complete the story, beat the stages, feel accomplished, move to the next).

Online games never lead to anything cause their only true ending can be their cancellation/shutting down.

So what do you expect to get out of Warframe or any other online game that will enrich your real life idk.

So in the end, fun.

I disagree with your reasoning for why games are meant to be played. But I'm not getting into that unless you specifically want to, because it's a long discussion and there is more than enough material on the matter that I don't need to repeat it all here.

I don't see why you find the topic ironic or pointless, I don't think it's pointless to question how you spend your time. Every second of your life is a second you will never get back so why spend it frivolously.

Why do you think only single player games can lead to meaningful experiences? Did WoW not change people's lives and create this sort of meaningful play when it initially came out (yes, it hasn't aged well but initially when it was a new technology it created various meaningful experiences for many people)? Do games CS not do something similar, albeit to a lesser extent and for entirely different reasons? DOTA when it was first a thing?

These games all meant something, something big, to various people.

Meaningful play is not created through game endings, it is created through gameplay experiences - there's tons on this topic as well I'm not fleshing it out here. An experience does not have to end to be meaningful. Basic accomplishment is not the most meaningful experience gameplay can create, it's cheap and feeds the ego.

I expect, at the very least, to get great memories out of Warframe - that is why I asked for anecdotes from players. If there are great, precious anecdotes from players then they must have found that experience meaningful else they wouldn't remember it so fondly. If nobody has a good memory to share then you are just farming your real time away in a virtual experience that offers you nothing.

At the most I expect some significant personal growth, at least I can settle for a precious memory. 

Let's start with why do you find the game fun? Why do you find it meaningful?

 

 

 

[DeathDweller]

1 minute ago, LoveGlover said:

 

I disagree with your reasoning for why games are meant to be played. But I'm not getting into that unless you specifically want to, because it's a long discussion and there is more than enough material on the matter that I don't need to repeat it all here.

I don't see why you find the topic ironic or pointless, I don't think it's pointless to question how you spend your time. Every second of your life is a second you will never get back so why spend it frivolously.

Why do you think only single player games can lead to meaningful experiences? Did WoW not change people's lives and create this sort of meaningful play when it initially came out (yes, it hasn't aged well but initially when it was a new technology it created various meaningful experiences for many people)? Do games CS not do something similar, albeit to a lesser extent and for entirely different reasons? DOTA when it was first a thing?

These games all meant something, something big, to various people.

Meaningful play is not created through game endings, it is created through gameplay experiences - there's tons on this topic as well I'm not fleshing it out here. An experience does not have to end to be meaningful. Basic accomplishment is not the most meaningful experience gameplay can create, it's cheap and feeds the ego.

I expect, at the very least, to get great memories out of Warframe - that is why I asked for anecdotes from players. If there are great, precious anecdotes from players then they must have found that experience meaningful else they wouldn't remember it so fondly. If nobody has a good memory to share then you are just farming your real time away in a virtual experience that offers you nothing.

At the most I expect some significant personal growth, at least I can settle for a precious memory. 

Let's start with why do you find the game fun? Why do you find it meaningful?

 

 

 

I find it ironic cause as you said you are new to the game and instead of playing it yourself you ask the pointless question, what others find to this game.Which will be x amount of answers and in the end you still have to find your own.I gave you mine and you wrote a wall of text telling me that you disagree so what's the point?

And no, for me games don't change lives, they just add a bit of happiness like many other things we do in life but if some think that they do because they find comfort or refuge from their real life fine by me.

Most wouldn't read a book or see a movie without an ending or a continuation, same goes for games.Now pvp games you mentioned, those are played for the competition and that's feeling of accomplishment.Sure the gameplay can be good or whatnot but take out the pvp element and see how many would play the same thing over and over again.

 

 

[Yasha-7HS]

I mean, at this point you're just questioning why you play games in general, what are you looking to be answered here? Why you should play Warframe instead of another game?

 

Warframe is more unique than what you'll find in most games as a single package. There's interesting and fast parkour which you can find in a lot of other games far more fleshed out, there's 3rd person shooter mechanics that you can find in other games with more refinement, there's loot systems that you can get more interesting drops in other games, and there's companions, story, whatever all found in separate games, individually. Warframe takes these generic things and threw them all in the same box. It's a Jack of all trade that's still throwing new things into the box.

The game isn't difficult, so if you're looking for gratification through beating extreme challenges you'll have to turn away unless you want to spend 6+ hours in a single session for inflated difficulty.

The game doesn't really require thought to be effective, and there are plenty of sources you can find that thought done for you.

 

But the game's fine if you just want to get on and complete some arbitrary task, like farm credits, mats or grind that .25% drop rate mod that almost no one gets and is selling for 1k platinum in the market.

When you're tired of that, you can stop playing, come back in a few months to see what's changed, since things change often in Warframe. Mechanics getting overhauled, multiple new weapons, new frames and companions, new levels to complement, new mods to grind for, new game modes to try, more story unraveled, more quests to play. All in a single mainline update.

 

If you're expecting something deeper out of this game, it isn't for you. It's a "Skinner's Box" like all the other games that are played.

 

Edit: Oh, and it's free and you don't have to pay for DLC, that's a lot of the draw for this game. "Beta Forever" you're not forced to pay, but obviously people are paying for it. You get on and waste time without dropping 60 dollars + 120 for something that you might not even like, or is a complete flop sequel from what was expected.

Edited November 18, 2018 by ShichiseitenYasha

[LoveGlover]

5 hours ago, DeathDweller said:

I find it ironic cause as you said you are new to the game and instead of playing it yourself you ask the pointless question, what others find to this game.Which will be x amount of answers and in the end you still have to find your own.I gave you mine and you wrote a wall of text telling me that you disagree so what's the point?

And no, for me games don't change lives, they just add a bit of happiness like many other things we do in life but if some think that they do because they find comfort or refuge from their real life fine by me.

Most wouldn't read a book or see a movie without an ending or a continuation, same goes for games.Now pvp games you mentioned, those are played for the competition and that's feeling of accomplishment.Sure the gameplay can be good or whatnot but take out the pvp element and see how many would play the same thing over and over again.

 

 

I have played the game and it feels, to me, like pointless farming. That's why I asked others for their anecdotes, because it would give me an idea of what lies ahead so that - if it is just pointless, mindless farming - I can go do better things with my life.

Gameplay can be fun and engaging and meaningful. Many things in life can be fun and engaging and meaningful. Games can change lives and have. Ya - maybe this particular game isn't bringing anything into your life but then why play it in the first place? Like, for some of the original Counter-Strike player base the play space was meaningful because they were old soldiers who needed a place to feel at home and couldn't get it in every day life - that was meaningful for them. If you are filling your life with things that are not, again, fun and engaging and meaningful... well, that's your life. I'm asking long-time players if I will find these three things (fun and engagement and meaningfulness) in this game, because if I will, I would like to continue but if I won't I don't want to waste my time.

Yes, I will have to find my own reason to play eventually - but if there is nothing to find and the game is a Skinner's Box situation where players play because it is a conditioned action I will not find anything - or I will, and the find's worth will be negated by the massive unyielding grind that lead up to it. To make a grind worthwhile there has to be a reward at the end that is of equal or greater worth than the grind it cost to get there. I am asking people who are already there if it is worth it. 

You didn't give me your anecdote or experience, you said that the game is fun. Skinner's Box situations are fun, their built to be fun that's how you get the pigeon to keep pressing the button. but that doesn't make them worthwhile. There are lots of ways to waste your life while having fun, but I am not in the business of wasting my life. Also, I didn't disagree with your saying the game is fun, if you properly read my wall of text you'd maybe notice that, I said that I disagree with how you define why games are meant to be played.

I think you are making very general statements in your replies and they do not feel well informed. I believe you are making assumptions about why people do the things they do and how they do them. 

Rather just share an anecdote with me from your experiences, it will be worth more than this argument we are having.

 

[Legion-Shields]

I had fun figuring out what my niche was in this huge jungle of possible builds and setups. Now that I’ve found it all thatÂ’s left is to take on whatever lore-related events DE throws at us. 

[LoveGlover]

5 hours ago, ShichiseitenYasha said:

I mean, at this point you're just questioning why you play games in general, what are you looking to be answered here? Why you should play Warframe instead of another game?

 

Warframe is more unique than what you'll find in most games as a single package. There's interesting and fast parkour which you can find in a lot of other games far more fleshed out, there's 3rd person shooter mechanics that you can find in other games with more refinement, there's loot systems that you can get more interesting drops in other games, and there's companions, story, whatever all found in separate games, individually. Warframe takes these generic things and threw them all in the same box. It's a Jack of all trade that's still throwing new things into the box.

The game isn't difficult, so if you're looking for gratification through beating extreme challenges you'll have to turn away unless you want to spend 6+ hours in a single session for inflated difficulty.

The game doesn't really require thought to be effective, and there are plenty of sources you can find that thought done for you.

 

But the game's fine if you just want to get on and complete some arbitrary task, like farm credits, mats or grind that .25% drop rate mod that almost no one gets and is selling for 1k platinum in the market.

When you're tired of that, you can stop playing, come back in a few months to see what's changed, since things change often in Warframe. Mechanics getting overhauled, multiple new weapons, new frames and companions, new levels to complement, new mods to grind for, new game modes to try, more story unraveled, more quests to play. All in a single mainline update.

 

If you're expecting something deeper out of this game, it isn't for you. It's a "Skinner's Box" like all the other games that are played.

 

Edit: Oh, and it's free and you don't have to pay for DLC, that's a lot of the draw for this game. "Beta Forever" you're not forced to pay, but obviously people are paying for it. You get on and waste time without dropping 60 dollars + 120 for something that you might not even like, or is a complete flop sequel from what was expected.

My question was: "Why should I play Warframe instead of doing something else?" I am sorry that, that was not clear.

You gave me a pretty decent answer though, thank you.

Like I said, I have a lot of friends who play the game, so if new stuff gets added on and it starts to move away from being a Skinner's Box to something more worthwhile for me I will come back and check it out again. Thank you for the info.