Why Stealth Play Doesn't Work In This Game

[BoompigXD]

So, you might have noticed that Stealth Play has been ignored for some time. In fact, it's pretty much been forgot about.

 

I just tried to a mission in Stealth and with the help of the Roll (Yes, The Roll is useful for something) i got pretty far, but then i got caught at the Reactor Room.

 

I also tried to stealth on Phobos, it didn't go well since this one Grineer asshat got in the way and wouldn't move.

 

So, why doesn't the Stealth in this game work when compared to games like MGS or Thief?

 

It's Simple

 

There's not enough ways around.

 

The reason the stealth in MGS is so genius is because the game always offered an alternative to the main pathway, in Warframe, most of the halls are straight passageways with no place to hide. In MGS, you could take the long way around and avoid being caught, whereas Warframe doesn't offer these kinds of passageways.

 

The solution is easy. We just need more rooms like this:

 

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/577873793445779437/E9F53D57FFDE7E2AD5245958FCE7B7BE5FF9FAF0/1024x768.resizedimage

 

This room is in the hallway where there are two Corpus security cameras watching you. 

 

If we had more of these rooms, stealth play would become more viable, because we would have more places where the enemy won't look.

 

#FuckOutrostoposts2013

 

[Hayden11121]

Even then, we get nothing for it.

 

I used to try stealth missions... it turns a 5 minute mission into a 20 minute mission with the same results.

 

We don't exactly need stealth, we just need to be able to assassinate anyone anytime, as long as we are at a certain angle, this allows flankers and speedier players to get their due out and can really help balance weapons *Daggers do bad damage but really good execution damage?*

 

Look at Halo and how they "Execute" enemies and players alike in their game. THAT is what we need.

 

PS: I do agree on more rooms like that. And tiny ledges we can wallhug across. If there is something I ever learned from Mirror's Edge, it's that enemies NEVER look up.

 

Edited September 7, 2013 by Hayden11121

[Archistopheles]

It's almost as though they need to rework the system for it to work!

 

Zomg, that's exactly what they've told us!!

[BoompigXD]

Even then, we get nothing for it.

 

I used to try stealth missions... it turns a 5 minute mission into a 20 minute mission with the same results.

 

We don't exactly need stealth, we just need to be able to assassinate anyone anytime, as long as we are at a certain angle, this allows flankers and speedier players to get their due out and can really help balance weapons *Daggers do bad damage but really good execution damage?*

 

Look at Halo and how they "Execute" enemies and players alike in their game. THAT is what we need.

 

Yeah, i agree we need more reward for stealth play

 

 

Edited September 7, 2013 by BoompigXD

[Hayden11121]

It's almost as though they need to rework the system for it to work!

 

Zomg, that's exactly what they've told us!!

It's almost as if he is giving suggestions on how to make it better for when they do rework it!

 

Zomg, that's exactly what he's doing!

[Doforcash]

my idea:

 

1/ make the Sentient only attack when u been see (or when been shot at)

2/ make a way to COULD kill Every Enemies when u approaching them (3 hit combo animation maybe)

3/approve your idea :D

[BoompigXD]

Also, Sabotage Missions will ruin any Stealth runs because you have to use your guns to take out the Reactor, therefore, you will be easily spotted. 

 

I think we should be able to do a series of HAX to destroy it

[Base85]

you don´t have to use the guns to take down a reactor.. just takes longer with sword.

[Numot]

Stealth doesn't work in this game because the maps are random. You can't learn the pathing or timing to get around without being seen, enemies can randomly spawn on you and some maps are just impossible to stealth through due to certain circumstances.

 

If DE wants to have stealth be a meaningful part of the game, they are going to need to start making maps for it.

[BoompigXD]

Stealth doesn't work in this game because the maps are random. You can't learn the pathing or timing to get around without being seen, enemies can randomly spawn on you and some maps are just impossible to stealth through due to certain circumstances.

 

If DE wants to have stealth be a meaningful part of the game, they are going to need to start making maps for it.

Alternatively, add the alternate pathways and hiding places Into to those maps instead having to make a whole other map.

[neKroMancer]

I will just copy my post from main stealth feedback.

I think the direction which the game is evolving toward isn't one with stealth element.

Many good stealth games; Metal Gear Solid, DeusEx, Dishonored, Mark of Ninja are single player game. Game design also has to be oriented heavily toward stealth more than actual combat. You will die if you get caught (or have to be really skillful in combat). It's about pathfinding, pattern recognition, and patience. Skill based gameplay more than vertical progression. Mostly you expand your gadget which make stealth easier when you level up.

Warframe doesn't have that feel. Sure it has minimal stealth but the current mechanic doesn't support a full fledge stealth game. It's coop, it's extremely strong element of vertical progression, unlocking new stuff doesn't have any stealth element in it. No power which support stealth gameplay except invisibility. Above all, no patience required. Why stealth if you can run head on against a room full of Grineer and emerge victorious? More loot, more EXP, more credit.

Imo, this is what stealth gameplay need.

1. Choice. Player can choose to play stealthily or using more direct means to dispatch enemies. However, enemies must post enough threat to make stealth more logical choice.

- DeusEx, MGS, and Dishonored all have this feature but fighting direct combat usually messy and player usually got killed.

- Choice not to kill. Stealth gameplay should offer alternative way to finish the mission. No detection, no kill. Best game allow you to deal with boss/objective in non-lethal way. MGS and Dishonored succeeded in this regard, DeusEx simply failed spectacularly.

2. Game focus on horizontal progression and expand choice, not power.

- Progression in stealth game usually focus on expanding choice which is usually unnecessary.

- You can play entire MGS without using anything but avoiding LoS and chokehold.

- You can play entire Dishonored with just Blink and chokehold (mostly flesh and steel achievement is fun and faster than my normal run)

- You can play DeusEx with chokehold + stun gun only.

3. Having a way to dispatch enemies in one attack is a must. OHK from stealth is needed. Even lowly Skana should be able to dispatch lv99 Grineer with one hit without mod. That's the beauty of stealth.

4. Stealth mechanic: LoS, noise generation, smell, movement, and shadow. All of them are needed to make stealth viable.

5. Level design. This is where Warframe make minor attempt to create alternative path. However, the procedurally generated map makes things messy. You can crawl through a duct but you have to exit the duct, walk through the doorway to the next room. I don't ask for duct that lead you directly to the objective but it really breaks the sense of stealth. These ducts usually lead to no where, no loot, no special control room, etc.

6. AI design. This one is big. Really big. Hardest thing in stealth game is to create believable AI behavior. Walking in patrol, stand and talking to each other, banter with one another in the squad, monitoring security panel, etc. When they detect you, there must be different between alert state and full awareness pattern.

7. Stealth feedback. This exist in every game. Visual feedback: The exclamation mark on the head in MGS, the thunder around he head for Dishonored, the usual 'huh?' in DeusEx and Mark of ninja. Musical feedback also exist in these games.

Throw of these into Warframe will be hard. I think the main concept of Warframe and stealth game don't mix well with each other. Imo, Warframe should focus on what it can deliver best : meleeing, shooting, running, and power. Investing in stealth is not productive at this point.

[BoompigXD]

We also DESPARATLY need the ability to turn off the sensors and be able to go back into to Stealth