Combat Ffs

[_Chaser]

if you don't make tenchu in space, atleast make combat proper.

 

tl;dr stop spamming us with creation of more and more melee weapons, work on making these weapons unique.

how and what?

 

1) combos | go play sleeping dogs

2) variety (one on one weapons or crowd control) | go play collapse and blade symphony

3) all melee weapons of each class should be equaly effective. | go play dark souls

 

lesson 0, dodge.

game: dark souls/anyothergame

 

make it viable/usefull. there is no need in decoration stuff just for decoration. it should be usefull.

 

lesson 1, various combos just with one button.

game: sleeping dogs

 

okay, we have just 1 button for melee attacks, now what? 

look at combat mechanics implemented there (click and hold one button)

this way of making combos will work here.

 

lesson 2, no lock on, crowd control combat, guns and blades

game: Collapse and/or Collapse: The Rage (amazing combat mechanics)

 

this game is the closest to warframe in aspect of meleee and gun play, still it does it way better. there are 4 or 8 combos for weapon using one button and level transitions between gunplay and melee, aswell as enemies tactics

 

it's easiler to kill melee enemies with melee weapons, so it's encourage to go all cqc in crowds of melee guys.

 

lesson 3, no lock on, one on one combat

game: blade symphony

 

from here you can check how no lock one on one combat should be done. there is no lock on opponent and it's deep as F*** even with one button to use.

 

lesson 4, useability and variety of weapons. not just plain stats change

game: dark soul, demon's souls

 

just play dark souls and you will find out.

 

 

so far we have a very sup-bar melee combat mechanics and there is no transitions between useage of weapons. there is no enemies that are supposed to be killed with blades, there are no enemies that are supposed to be killed by guns.

 

overall gameplay and combat feels like shooting spray a pile of bulletsponges.

it's dull and boring and easy. the so called problem with "people run ahead" is part of it.

enemies are just grind meat and don't represent any danger, so people aren't forced to stay together. do you expect that spamming more and more enemies per level will solve it? nope.

 

any game even 09 dark sector or collapse doing it better. if your aim was to make dumb meat grind you succed. i have no nerves to play such routine and monotone and enjoy it.

 

enmies should require specific approaches. what the dam use of abilities and what the heck makes warframes unique? for now it's all the same except skin.

 

if this game is supposed to live long enough, instead of making S#&$ ton of useless weapons, you'd better take your time and balance it and make em unique. 

 

yeah, i know that changing couple of stats and making a model is rahter faster than creating proper anim sets, balancing and making melee or any other weapons unique, but you should probaly start giving a F*** about it.

 

if the game is free and broke children will play pretty much everything that leaves em overpowered no matter how routine it will be, i'm sure there are people who are not.

 

no need to even tell me "game is free" and alpha/beta excuses. the game is up for almost a year, it was your choice to go with f2p marketwise, and even tho game is alpha/beta whatever you call it, you accept payments, and yes we all know what does it mean to accept pay during "beta" stages, this is not the point anyway.

 

the point is game need content, not re-skins. 

 

good luck

Edited September 11, 2013 by n7snk

[Runlock]

I do agree that melee weapons need to be rebalanced, but I don't think melee combat should be like other games. If you just want the rules of Warframe to use the rules of another game, why not just go play that other game instead? There's a better melee system for Warframe then just copy/pasting mechanics from other games.

 

As I said, I totally agree that there are ways to make melee weapons more fun, but the way you're telling the devs how to do it sounds like you're trying to write a Sleeping Dogs/Dark Souls crossover fan fiction game in space.

[FunkDoctaSpock]

I do agree that melee weapons need to be rebalanced, but I don't think melee combat should be like other games. If you just want the rules of Warframe to use the rules of another game, why not just go play that other game instead? There's a better melee system for Warframe then just copy/pasting mechanics from other games.

 

As I said, I totally agree that there are ways to make melee weapons more fun, but the way you're telling the devs how to do it sounds like you're trying to write a Sleeping Dogs/Dark Souls crossover fan fiction game in space.

He's just trying to say that they need to put a lot of work in the melee system. As it is now, players barely use their melee. DE hasn't made any improvements to the melee system in the 5 months that i've been playing this game, all they've done is add more weapons... Maybe they need some inspirational sources ? The melee sytem is way too basic for a NINJA game, combos would surely be nice, i love using my melee but apparently DE doesn't seem to care much anymore about improving gameplay. They've just been adding new OP'd content they can sell for plat ... So maybe it's time for DE to accept they can't re-invent everything. If ways of improving the game's melee mechanics already exist and can be implemented into the game fairly easily, why not ?

[Taihus]

I was thinking about how a combo system would work, and a press-and-hold or maybe even a timing system like El Shaddai: Ascension of the Metratron could more than likely work.

[gell]

^ Players barely use their melee? I use it about 90% of the time still aside from leveling a new gun.

 

While the OP has a valid point, I find it hard to take seriously when a game like Collapse is mentioned. That loose floaty over animated crap? I get that it's a game with guns and one button melee, but come on. It's a horrible game with really weak feeling melee combat. It was awful and no one should play it. The one thing I might take from it for WF would be the easier back flips, since WF requires you to aim first and that's weird while using melee.

 

WF's melee is a tough subject. DE clearly never set out to make combos and fancy things (I almost feel like it was a free hit like in many FPS with melee knife, or Halo with the rifle butt), and they've said as much, but now we're at a strange middle ground of being neither here nor there. It's not TF2's single melee attack, and it's not Devil May Cry. If you're going to mention one button melee in a third person shooter, try Space Marine. It pulled it off quite well, although it does look like the old combo system, it's more akin using the Orthos than really being combos.

 

For the point in the TL;DR, DE has already stopped making melee weapons (or you could say it has dramatically slowed down). Have you not noticed? They said in more than one live stream that there are too many melee weapons and they should focus on making the existing ones better, and also releasing more guns. Sure, the gun thing won't fix melee, but the point was DE is aware of melee being saturated and not very varied in use.

Edited September 11, 2013 by gell

[_Chaser]

fuckload of animations for ash ult, so they surely can put some effort in making weapons unique