So Is Stamina Back To Exactly What It Used To Be?

[litlit]

*cough* To actually answer the OP: 

It's not as indefinite as it was before, but I only feel "sluggish" without stamina mods instead of completely out of breath within five seconds of running. With Quick Rest I can run more or less indefinitely provided that I take advantage of sliding every once in awhile. With Marathon I probably wouldn't even need to slide. Rush naturally still works exactly as it did before. 

I feel it's about right where it should be; your mobility is not utterly gutted without mods, and you can play just fine without them, but equipping them also yields a tangible performance increase. Stamina related mods are important without being mandatory. 

 

I disagree, it's not "right where it should be". It was right where it should be before stamina even existed, and it was pretty much okay when it did exist pre-update10.

 

Stamina can be important without making the single best thing about the game -- the feeling of free, fluid movement -- feel like it's being dragged down with needless baggage.

 

Solution: make blocking actually useful, make stamina used only for blocking. Boom, everyone's happy: stamina is now "significant", and movement feels more free.

 

I grabbed all those quotes from the first 4 pages from ONE thread before the hotfix change. Those posts were EVERYWHERE.

 

You're still generalizing based on cherry-picked quotes.

Edited September 16, 2013 by litlit

[Ghobe]

Solution: make blocking actually useful, make stamina used only for blocking. Boom, everyone's happy: stamina is now "significant", and movement feels more free.

Blocking IS useful now...to a degree. Parry and reflection are mods for making blocking useful. Problem is, there's no point in using them over a gun. You might say that they need buffed then. Well what are they going to do? Change reflection to deal damage above 100%? Make parry auto kill as opposed to just knocking down? Problem is, with so much stamina at the ready, you never feel you need to block, you can just run away. When you can't run away is when blocking becomes valuable. Now we have limitless stamina, so you never use blocking other than "for the lulz". Hell if we went back to the old system and blocking only prevented stamina from regenerating as opposed to draining it as its used, it might just be effective. Though it's clear you people wouldn't approve of being "forced to block".

 

You're still generalizing based on cherry-picked quotes.

I grabbed every quote mentioning a specific frame or types of frames. Ash and Loki quotes weren't "picked" because they didn't exist.

[fatpig84]

This will be a low quality post because I have 2 hours of sleep but hear me out.

 

As a new player the guy above me has it right, I just started playing Warframe a week and a half ago, and honestly I love the game. Despite being new, I focused down on mods, both for my warframe and my starting weapons, and I was capable of holding my own in a fight all the way through Earth and even in the Jupiter, Mars, and Saturn regions. The MK-1, and Lato both were weak in comparison to other people's weapons but I could still deal enough damage to feel useful and thanks to Pull I could regularly pull 25% damage rating in missions. I: A new Player with barely upgraded gear, was able to keep up with damage against my much better equipped opponents! I felt useful, which is so important in Warframe, because this game is like most shooters and it is a power fantasy. I love being a space ninja, it's a ton of fun, and being a useful space ninja just takes the darn cake. 

 

That was, until the Stamina changes hit in. You see one of the first things I did when I started was learning how to move, it didn't take long for me to obtain perfect freedom of movement within the system. It felt great. You have no idea how wonderful it was when I learned how to sprint forever, or how to do the super jump or a Wall jump super jump. That feeling of sailing over and entire room of enemies only to land in the middle of them and Crush them all to pieces with my Mag. That was what made the game fun for me, what made it enjoyable. Warframe provides a combination of speed, action, and grinding that honestly is right up my ally. The game was made for me.

 

Then U10 hit and I felt slow. I know I'll sound like I'm exaggerating but I felt like all of those skills, tactics, and all the fun I'd been teaching myself to have in game had suddenly been invalidated. You couldn't slide cancel, you couldn't move forever, and suddenly Warframe became a slog for me. My weapons were enough to handle enemies but those few extra seconds I had to spend on each one thanks to the low quality gear meant that I had to rush more than ever because I couldn't afford to be caught without the energy to Pull a room that had me cornered. However, I couldn't even rush at that point. Before, I was keeping up with the other frames, you know? Even a well played Ashe and Loki, I was within a room of them at all times only falling behind if I screwed up reading the map. However, with the U10 changes I got left in the dust. Namely because before I didn't need any stamina mods, and suddenly I was basically REQUIRED to use mods that I didn't own in order to retain the freedom of movement that had drawn me to Warframe in the first place. If found myself struggling to make extraction, to even see Vor's face before he got exploded. A single mistake on my part left me a room behind the rest instead of a few seconds, and thanks to the slog of moving so slow suddenly EVERYONE was rushing. No one had time for enemies, which left me dealing with them as I tried to hurl my little frame forward as quickly as possible. I ended up trying risky jumps I knew I couldn't do, and occasionally getting stuck in walls from trying anything and everything to move as quickly as possible.

 

Nothing helped, the game felt...bad. As someone who has only been playing for a week I can tell you that the difference between stamina in U9 and Pre patch U10 was night and day. It was play and not play, really, and I was ready to quit till it got fixed. Fortunately, it was, and I now have the freedom of movement I enjoyed.

 

Whatever DE does, I hope they never take away that movement again. It's the charm of the game, the skill, the finesse, and the power behind Warframe is not slaughtering millions of baddies with friends. I could do that in ME3, and did in the MP for 440 hours. It wasn't being a Ninja, I have Rising Revengence for that. It was combining it all into a single well made package that took the best elements of each.

 

So, as a new player, Stamina being back to the way it was happens to be the best thing to happen while I've been playing. That's not saying a lot, but I think it's important to consider how system changes effect new players as well as you old cynics.

 

 

Ah yes you deserve a medal for that post.

And I hope I wasn't that Loki $&*^ing everyone out, if it was I, I apologise :p

[RedDirtTrooper]

Blocking IS useful now...to a degree. Parry and reflection are mods for making blocking useful. Problem is, there's no point in using them over a gun. You might say that they need buffed then. Well what are they going to do? Change reflection to deal damage above 100%? Make parry auto kill as opposed to just knocking down? Problem is, with so much stamina at the ready, you never feel you need to block, you can just run away. When you can't run away is when blocking becomes valuable. Now we have limitless stamina, so you never use blocking other than "for the lulz". Hell if we went back to the old system and blocking only prevented stamina from regenerating as opposed to draining it as its used, it might just be effective. Though it's clear you people wouldn't approve of being "forced to block".

 

If I don't have the stamina to run, I don't have the stamina to block either. The current stamina cost for blocking is ridiculous to the point of absurdity. That's one of the reasons nobody uses it, as you don't get the option of running away after attempting to block. You just used all your stamina.

[SanguineXIII]

That feel when your soldier in Battlefield 3 can sprint forever, but your space ninja in Warframe has to choose between sprinting or fighting in melee combat still.

 

I'd seriously like to see a system where there is no such thing as not sprinting for this game. (Outside of movement while aiming down sights, of course.) Instead: parkour, dodging, and melee combat are the only things that cost stamina, and stamina greatly impacts the effectiveness all of them.

Edited September 17, 2013 by SanguineXIII