Plains of Eidolon / Cetus streamlined

[Cristice]

With the plains of eidolons revamp update coming up soon I think there's some glaring issues that need changing when it comes to the rewards and what you can buy with your standing

Fortuna's standing offerings is a more streamlined and straightforward system than what the plains of eidolons is right now, and i feel like it's what players wanted all along from the plains but instead of reworking the system back then when the plains was the only open world map it was instead implemented into fortuna

Most of what you buy in cetus is a blueprint, the arcanes for zaws are blueprints, the fish baits are blueprints, the arcanes from the quills are blueprints, all of these things get very costly and right now earning reputation in fortuna and vox solaris is much easier than earning it in cetus and the quills.

There's no argument here, you want to earn some reputation in fortuna you can just do it with debt bonds, selling the hundreds of your rare gems you got from the exploiter orb, preservation, bounties, fishing for rare fish (bait is easier to get a hold of), run profit taker and earn reputation for both vox and SU, and yet most of the offerings from fortuna, the arcanes, the fishing bait all that is not a blueprint, it's just an item, it's already built ready for use, it's great

And yet in cetus you have to craft your bait from multiple fish parts so do you really want to earn reputation from selling fish? Mining in the plains for rare gems is as boring as it is in fortuna tbh, but you never seem to get as many rare gems as you get in orb vallis, just an observation, and the last option is to do bounties, which is fine. But when it comes to the quills it's always a window of time in which you can earn reputation by hunting eidolons, that wouldn't be such a big issue for me if the quills could just offer arcanes that don't come in the form of blueprints. You can earn vox solaris standing by just selling toroids that can be acquired from basic orb vallis enemies from 3 different bases and little duck will happily sell you built arcanes for your operator but onkko is just stingy as hell in comparison and only sells you blueprints that take an hour to craft and are very costly in materials, even though the effort and time gating for getting quills standing is a bigger investment than earning vox solaris standing

It's just not fun trying to do anything in cetus because everything you're rewarded with is blueprints that you have to work extra for so you can craft them. And it was a real pain in the butt back then to rank up your cetus reputation whenever the sacrifice required a rare fish part or a rare gem (rare gems can be found more easily now but fish baits are the same), so when that revamp for the plains comes out i think it could really benefit it if you guys just copy fortuna's offerings and remove blueprints in favor of built and ready to use items or people won't really stick around in plains even if it looks pretty   (and i'm not asking for zaws to be sold as built parts, kitgun parts aren't sold like that so i don't have an issue with zaws being sold as blueprints)

(note: if they mentioned any changes of this sort in any previous stream then i'm not aware of it)

[Steel_Rook]

49 minutes ago, Cristice said:

There's no argument here, you want to earn some reputation in fortuna you can just do it with debt bonds, selling the hundreds of your rare gems you got from the exploiter orb, preservation, bounties, fishing for rare fish (bait is easier to get a hold of), run profit taker and earn reputation for both vox and SU, and yet most of the offerings from fortuna, the arcanes, the fishing bait all that is not a blueprint, it's just an item, it's already built ready for use, it's great

Actually, there's plenty of argument here. Cetus baits being blueprints means they don't cost you standing to make. In Fortuna, expensive baits for expensive fish cut into your daily standing limit substantially, making it actually HARDER to progress through Solaris United, rather than easier. I'd rather Fortuna swap over to the Cetus design for fish bait than the other way around, because right now there's really no point in fishing for standing there. Might as well do Conservation for standing and fishing only for parts.

Basically, paying standing once for an infinite-use blueprint is a better deal than paying standing for every individual item.

[Cristice]

1 hour ago, Steel_Rook said:

Actually, there's plenty of argument here. Cetus baits being blueprints means they don't cost you standing to make. In Fortuna, expensive baits for expensive fish cut into your daily standing limit substantially, making it actually HARDER to progress through Solaris United, rather than easier. I'd rather Fortuna swap over to the Cetus design for fish bait than the other way around, because right now there's really no point in fishing for standing there. Might as well do Conservation for standing and fishing only for parts.

 

Aight, I think you're speaking from the point of someone who actively goes out and fish to someone who doesn't actively fish, there's no way someone can run out of standing from purchasing bait unless they're pretty dedicated to fishing, I only fish when I need specific parts for something to craft and i spend about 2.5k standing for some bait and i'm sure many other people do the same and would rather just be able to spend some standing for straight bait instead of needing to go out and get 2 other fish parts, ones that they might need to craft bait for as well. 

With so many ways to earn reputation in fortuna, and very fast for that matter, literally just trading debts and gems gathered from orb fights, it's less time consuming and less tedious than trying to go out to fish for different fish to be able to craft 20x baits, it only makes sense if you're quite dedicated to fishing, then yes, i see why anyone would prefer the cetus system, but this system does not work for anyone who doesn't actively fish as part of their farming routine in warframe

The sound solution is just to have both systems, sell the blueprints with infinite uses and sell the bait too, buying the bait is more costly if you buy in large bulk but it works for anyone that doesn't want that extra work to craft 20x bait even though they only need 1 or 2 bait so they can get 3 or 5 fish parts of that one rare fish. They can introduce bait blueprints in fortuna, too, we don't have to compromise here because it won't hurt anyone to just have both, it only benefits both type of players, so yes, i was wrong on that front, swapping either systems instead of having both is stupid, we can have both. 

[Steel_Rook]

8 minutes ago, Cristice said:

Aight, I think you're speaking from the point of someone who actively goes out and fish to someone who doesn't actively fish, there's no way someone can run out of standing from purchasing bait unless they're pretty dedicated to fishing, I only fish when I need specific parts for something to craft and i spend about 2.5k standing for some bait and i'm sure many other people do the same and would rather just be able to spend some standing for straight bait instead of needing to go out and get 2 other fish parts, ones that they might need to craft bait for as well. 

I'm not dedicated to fishing. It's just even semi-rare fish in Cetus trade for a lot of standing and are fairly easy to catch in large numbers, which made them a pretty good way to gain standing. You can catch Mortus Lungfish pretty early on, the bait for them is pretty easy to make (requiring only bait-less fish bits) in large quantities and you can snag a good couple dozen of them per bait. While it does take some effort to craft the bait, it gives me 20 uses for no cost in standing. Getting the same 20 bait charges from Fortuna for even Narrow Spectrum bait would cost 2000 Standing, which isn't nothing for an MR17 player like myself. That brings my daily standing down from 18K to 16K.

By contrast, nothing else in Fortuna has a Standing upkeep. I can shoot rocks and tranq manbearpigs at no cost, meaning there literally IS no point in fishing unless you need a specific fish bit. I don't like upkeep in general, but if we're GOING to have to pay for consumable bait, I'd rather pay in resources not capped by daily limits. ... Actually, I tell a lie - Conservation has the same issue of consumable Pheromone things for actually quite a lot of standing. The difference is that high-level Lures guarantee a high-return spawn all of the time and a ridiculously high-return spawn some of the time even without the Pheromones. Fishing, by contrast, rarely spawns the most prized fish without the proper bait.

 

15 minutes ago, Cristice said:

The sound solution is just to have both systems, sell the blueprints with infinite uses and sell the bait too, buying the bait is more costly if you buy in large bulk but it works for anyone that doesn't want that extra work to craft 20x bait even though they only need 1 or 2 bait so they can get 3 or 5 fish parts of that one rare fish. They can introduce bait blueprints in fortuna, too, we don't have to compromise here because it won't hurt anyone to just have both, it only benefits both type of players, so yes, i was wrong on that front, swapping either systems instead of having both is stupid, we can have both. 

Sure. As long as I can attain bait without cutting into my daily standing, I'll be happy. I get that straight-up buying items is easier and more convenient than having to craft them, and crafting Glappid Bait really IS tedious, but I still find Standing costs for consumables to undesirable while still trying to progress through a Syndicate.

[Cristice]

47 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

but I still find Standing costs for consumables to undesirable while still trying to progress through a Syndicate

I'm not sure if you mean progress as in "progress to the max reputation rank" or "progress through getting every item the syndicate has to offer", if it's the first one you mean; i mostly never spend standing unless i reach the max rank, but the thing was you never needed to get fish in fortuna to rank up your standing, it was only debt bonds and credits, and back when plains came out the bait blueprints were consumed upon crafting until it was changed a week or so in? i don't remember, but i ended up spending way more cetus standing and was stuck unable to rank up because fishing parts were required to rank up. I only ranked up to max when plague star came out and norg brain and some other rarer fishing parts were up for sale for operation standing, and they were there probably because people were stuck on certain ranks due to fishing being annoying and required to progress, needing to do a lot wikipedia-ing and forum scouring to know where to fish, what bait to use, night or day etc

ranking cetus reputation from 0 you will still need to buy those bait blueprints that can reach 10k standing in price for the highest bait value i think, even if its a one time purchase they will set you back multiple times when you try to rank up, unless you want to buy 1 fish for 1-2 platinum so you can progress each time cetus wants a fish sacrifice, fortuna doesn't have this issue unless you want to start farming for fish and gems before reaching max rank

Edited March 19, 2019 by Cristice

[Steel_Rook]

27 minutes ago, Cristice said:

I'm not sure if you mean progress as in "progress to the max reputation rank" or "progress through getting every item the syndicate has to offer"

I'm mostly referring to just gaining Standing in general. Any Standing spent for consumables is Standing I'm not earning this week, and that can compound pretty quickly across multiple weeks. Whether I'm still levelling up or saving up for a large purchase, I'd rather not invest parts of that into consumables. I don't know what Cetus was like at release (#*!%ing dreadful, from what I hear), but it had infinite-use Bait bluepirnts when I got to it. And sure - the Blueprints themselves were expensive, but at least that was the only Standing I was going to spend on them ever again. I'm fine with making a large purchase even if it sets me back, as long as it's permanent.

Sure, Glappid Baid is 12 500 Standing and that's a LOT, but that's also the ONLY Standing I'm ever going to spend on it. Synathid Bait (which I needed for Larkspur components) may be just 400 Standing per cannister, but that still exceeds the Glappid Bait once you buy 32 cannisters. And while that might sound like a lot, having lots of bait to spare is sort of my goal. It means I can throw some to help friends and generally not worry about saving it constantly. By contrast, the 5 cannisters I bought were JUUUST enough to catch the Synathid fish I need because the game bugged out and ate two of my cannisters, then I lost the majority of one when the weather changed on me.

If you want to boil it down to a soundbite: If I'm going to spend Standing, I'd rather buy permanent items than consumables.