New Mods And The Longsword

[theGreatZamboni]

I am going to assume this is an oversight. With this recent update there have been mods introduced that are little more than gimmicks, when compared to more functional melee mods. These "gimmick" mods were features primed to add functionality and balance to the use of longswords. I have been posting this idea constantly over several months in a multitude of threads and to see these functions implemented as mods is just disappointing. What you had was a prime chance to balance the longswords though function rather than damage and you squandered it. Here is the proposed idea:

 

1. Remove mods such as Parry and Reflex guard. What these serve to do, is nothing in the current scheme of things, especially when outclassed by pure damaging mods. These are misleading to newer players, who are already maligned by this game as it is.

 

2. Make the following changes to longswords.

 

 A. When you time a block correctly at an incoming melee strike, you have a chance to parry then riposte with a damaging strike. This would create a functional benefit to using a single blade versus a heavy or dual. You could modify the damage multipliers to be as such, where the damage riposted is enough to make that play style viable. A similar function could be added to daggers. The idea being to add balance through gameplay/numbers and not just numbers.

 

Edit : Much to my dismay the following feature is also a WARFRAME mod in the game. This needs to be changed.

 

 B. The second change is as follows: When you are blocking incoming enemy fire, where ever your reticule is, you reflect bullets back at that target. You keep the same function for heavy and dual blades, but without bullet redirection. Of course stamina cost will need to be adjusted and only and % of damage should be returned to the target. Along with this should be increased damage absorption for dual and heavy, as blocking currently does next to nothing.

 

----------------------

 

The idea conceptually of both bullet reflection and parrying is blade mastery vs pure damage. You add rewarding and functional elements of gameplay to swords that compensate for pure damage. In a "game lore" sense, you can perform more precise moves with a single blade, than dual or heavy. Please if you like this idea, make it known. This seems to be the only logical direction to take, to balance longswords; by offering mechanics that return function and damage over just pure damage. This by no means perfect and any suggestions you make can be implemented. I want DE to make longswords viable and this seems to be the best way I can perceive that happening.

Edited November 14, 2013 by theGreatZamboni

[Khainegom]

I support this.

 

DE's new stance seems to be "Something is broken? Don't fix it, add mods to fix it!" and that is a load of bullS#&$. Just fix it.

[Neoshroomish]

I'm not against the idea of skill-based gameplay, but copy-pasting mechanics from Dark Souls won't work without a lot of changes. The animations aren't suited to parrying, and there are often too many enemies for it to work well. I don't know if there's an easy solution at all though.

 

What I would recommend is simply buffing those mods so that there is some kind of choice there, and changing "automatic blocking" to "increased damage reduction" (up to 100%) so that there's some kind of gameplay involved beyond having your reload interrupted. There's a bunch of other changes you could make to make it more user friendly/useful, but that would be the bare minimum.

 

Also, why "longswords" specifically? Sounds like you're talking about melee in general.

[Zephro]

Also, why "longswords" specifically? Sounds like you're talking about melee in general.

Because atm, longswords are at the bottom of the melee barrel since they can only hit one enemy, as compared to other melee types which can cleave multiples.

Melee needs a rework at any rate, it's just beyond mediocre at this point.

[theGreatZamboni]

I'm not against the idea of skill-based gameplay, but copy-pasting mechanics from Dark Souls won't work without a lot of changes. The animations aren't suited to parrying, and there are often too many enemies for it to work well. I don't know if there's an easy solution at all though.

 

What I would recommend is simply buffing those mods so that there is some kind of choice there, and changing "automatic blocking" to "increased damage reduction" (up to 100%) so that there's some kind of gameplay involved beyond having your reload interrupted. There's a bunch of other changes you could make to make it more user friendly/useful, but that would be the bare minimum.

 

Also, why "longswords" specifically? Sounds like you're talking about melee in general.

 

Longswords/daggers are useless. They do not have the damage capabilities of dual anything or heavy anything. By giving longswords damage through utility, you balance them and make them viable. This idea can work and I understand the issue with the number of enemies, but you would sacrifice precision with the riposting to compensate. Say you are hit by two people, you do a counter swing, that may not hit both of the targets animation-wise but still hurts/staggers them because the scripting is in place to do so.

Edited September 17, 2013 by theGreatZamboni

[theGreatZamboni]

Because atm, longswords are at the bottom of the melee barrel since they can only hit one enemy, as compared to other melee types which can cleave multiples.

Melee needs a rework at any rate, it's just beyond mediocre at this point.

 

I am pitching this idea because I do not believe they will rework mechanics so ingrained, even if they suck. This is less work for them, so I am trying to compromise to their sense of stubbornness and perceived laziness.

[Lady_Khaos]

By the way, those new mods are for Warframes instead of melee, meaning they are even less likely to be used.

[theGreatZamboni]

By the way, those new mods are for Warframes instead of melee, meaning they are even less likely to be used.

 

Holy crap. That is just flat out moronic. Thank you for informing me, this...is even more disappointing.

[notionphil]

Well thought out, simple to execute, balanced.

 

+1

[Phoenix86]

A nice idea... even if doing a slide attack and kill will always be faster than stop and block...

[theGreatZamboni]

A nice idea... even if doing a slide attack and kill will always be faster than stop and block...

 

Ask yourself, is that balanced?

[Hoverbike]

That this might never happen, even something as basic as rolling the mods into the melee system, is ridiculous

[theGreatZamboni]

That this might never happen, even something as basic as rolling the mods into the melee system, is ridiculous

 

Ridicules to think DE would do? Ridicules how...?

[Blackjammer]

By the way, those new mods are for Warframes instead of melee, meaning they are even less likely to be used.

 

And the final nail one of them:

 

It's apparently reflected damage after reductions that are normally applied to you upon receiving damage. I got bored of trying to kill the grineer with it and died from that one moa.

Side note: that lower image is strange since only one moa ever took shots at me the entire time.

[DeadPixel]

I was just raging about my dark sword being useless i love the fact im not the only one that finds longswords need a buff it seems no matter what u do nothing will outclass heavies its depressin cause like i said earlier not evrybody wants to be cloud xD

[theGreatZamboni]

And the final nail one of them:

It's apparently reflected damage after reductions that are normally applied to you upon receiving damage. I got bored of trying to kill the grineer with it and died from that one moa.

Side note: that lower image is strange since only one moa ever took shots at me the entire time.

WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

That is just maniacal. Truly, without a doubt, maniacal. I bet they barely work too, as you suggest. This is just moronic on their part, it would be less so if these were not Warframe mods but melee. Even then...wow. So now they really have no excuse. The stuff is in the game, with the exception of riposting. Buff them, make them viable and do what is suggested. This is just foolish.

Edited September 17, 2013 by theGreatZamboni

[Flackenstien]

I agree to an extent.
All weapons should have a chance to deflect melee & ranged attacks, redirecting the damage back at the attacker.

The current blocking mod(s) would be reworked to boost the default block/reflect chances.

Here's my take on Longswords, and Blocking:

● Longswords should have a medium-high block chance, with a very high damage reflect chance upon blocking.

Maybe 25-30% block, 50% reflect?

Longswords should have a higher base damage than their dual counterparts, you're using two arms to swing, rather than one.
Don't nerf the duals base damage, buff the singles, alot.

● Heavy weapons should have a high block chance, with a low reflect chance.

Maybe 40% block, 25% reflect?

(While bullets would ricochet off them, Heavy weapons are too.. heavy.. to deflect the damage back.)

● Daggers/Duals should have a medium block chance, with a low reflect chance.

Maybe 15% block, 15% reflect?

(One arm isn't enough to accurately deflect enemy bullets or punches.)

 

NOTE: The block/reflect rates would fluctuate depending on the individual weapons. 

Edited September 17, 2013 by Flackenstien

[Shwoooop]

I like this idea a lot as it would bring some function to longswords.

[theGreatZamboni]

It remains that even if these new functions were not exclusive to longswords, having all weapons be able to do this would make melee more exciting and dynamic.

[theGreatZamboni]

I agree to an extent.

All weapons should have a chance to deflect melee & ranged attacks, redirecting the damage back at the attacker.

The current blocking mod(s) would be reworked to boost the default block/reflect chances.

Here's my take on Longswords, and Blocking:

● Longswords should have a medium-high block chance, with a very high damage reflect chance upon blocking.

Maybe 25-30% block, 50% reflect?

Longswords should have a higher base damage than their dual counterparts, you're using two arms to swing, rather than one.

Don't nerf the duals base damage, buff the singles, alot.

● Heavy weapons should have a high block chance, with a low reflect chance.

Maybe 40% block, 25% reflect?

(While bullets would ricochet off them, Heavy weapons are too.. heavy.. to deflect the damage back.)

● Daggers/Duals should have a medium block chance, with a low reflect chance.

Maybe 15% block, 15% reflect?

(One arm isn't enough to accurately deflect enemy bullets or punches.)

 

NOTE: The block/reflect rates would fluctuate depending on the individual weapons. 

 

I disagree and I am not going to pretend I know about what #s would warrant being balanced. Just like DE shouldn't pretend either.

[Dasmir]

I support this.

 

DE's new stance seems to be "Something is broken? Don't fix it, add mods to fix it!" and that is a load of bullS#&$. Just fix it.

 

More money grabbing.

[theGreatZamboni]

More money grabbing.

 

Adding mods isn't money grubbing. It is poor design philosophy. The only thing holding this game together is Mynki's fantastic art direction and promises. 

[Flackenstien]

I disagree and I am not going to pretend I know about what #s would warrant being balanced. Just like DE shouldn't pretend either.

The numbers I used where just an example..

 

Also, what do you even disagree with?

Edited September 17, 2013 by Flackenstien

[syle]

By the way, those new mods are for Warframes instead of melee, meaning they are even less likely to be used.

 

ill take a wild guess

...

Scotts design

[theGreatZamboni]

bump