The Endgame

[ROSING]

By now, we have consistently said that grinding is currently the endgame, and that it should not be. I am not about to debate that endgame should be different from trolling the same places over and over again for something that will last for just one mission.

But what I'm stumped about is the alternative to grinding. What else can we do for endgame? I can't think of any but I really want to know some solutions and alternatives. So those who have played for a while, I trust you know what you want. So please give suggestions and with luck DE can see this too.

TL;DR: What are alternatives to grinding as endgame?

[alphex]

Besides pluto defense I cant think of anything. I'd like to know too.

[RoboDoge]

Chatframe is endgame in WF.

[X3Evanescence]

Chatframe is endgame in WF.

This.

[Xenrax]

'Raid' bosses is something that should be considered 'EndGame'.  Bosses like Golem but on a much larger scale and with flexible raids supporting up to ~10 or so Tenno at once.  Anything more then that might be a bit much.

 

Before they do this, they'd need to work on fixing the network code to automatically have the person with the best network latency be the host.

[alphex]

Chatframe is endgame in WF.

I 3rd this 

[holyicon]

The problem is mmo players have been trained to expect "phat l00tz" from endgame bosses. Thus creating a tier of "end-game" weapons. Thus requiring a tier of harder end-game bosses, and thus a higher tier of weapons, and so on, aux infinitude, etc... etc... etc...

Can Warframe "break" that training by having an End-Game where simply overcoming the challenge is reward enough for the players?
I don't know.


But what I do know is.

Muffins.

[LordofTibera]

What I don't get is that DE keeps talking about story and "big plans for x character" but isn't the game a launch title for PS4 now? So they can't deliver a half-finished product by November...they need to think of something.

[TheSphynx]

Warforma, oops I mean Warframe, has very little options for "end-game" content. Since the significant decrease in the Forma reward rate from void missions, players are left with an endless Void key and forma grind. 15 Void Runs today, keys took about 10 hours to farm. Missions took another 10 hours. So, 20 hours spent trying to get a forma, and it was 20 hours wasted. All we can do is listen to them tell us things are working as intended and "We didn't stealth nerf forma. They are just diluted with all the new items in the Void tables." 15 runs, I got the same 3 items from T2 Exterminate. Still have about 15 more keys. Will be grinding those tomorrow. THAT is "The End Game"

[KF_Kenobi]

The problem is mmo players have been trained to expect "phat l00tz" from endgame bosses. Thus creating a tier of "end-game" weapons. Thus requiring a tier of harder end-game bosses, and thus a higher tier of weapons, and so on, aux infinitude, etc... etc... etc...

Can Warframe "break" that training by having an End-Game where simply overcoming the challenge is reward enough for the players?

I don't know.

But what I do know is.

Muffins.

 

It's not about training, it's about human nature, and it's a problem inherent to all games with no defined ending, and no way of recursively scaling the difficulty to infinity (the latter Warframe has in the form of Endless Defense). It's just a much more noticeable in games where you can upgrade your avatar with improved stats. But it does happen in other types of games too.

 

Take fighting games for instance (or any game where you don't get upgrades for winning). In fighting games you play just to fight. But before long many turn up the difficulty, and when that no-longer presents a challenge, they to find human opponents that are more creative. If that's not enough for them they go to EVO. That's just one example.

 

The same applies here.Once you know how to beat that boss with a team, you'll solo it, and once you can solo it you'll want to move on (unless it can't be soloed for some reason, but that just means you'll move on faster). So no, I don't think Warframe can be the game to "break" that, because there's nothing to break.

 

This is why PvP has been one of the most requested features from the beginning: it's the most efficient way of making sure that sense of progression -of "something to do next"- is always there. Making an end-game that doesn't rely on other players, and doesn't seem repetitive is really hard.

[holyicon]

It's not about training, it's about human nature, and it's a problem inherent to all games with no defined ending, and no way of recursively scaling the difficulty to infinity (the latter Warframe has in the form of Endless Defense). It's just a much more noticeable in games where you can upgrade your avatar with improved stats. But it does happen in other types of games too.

 

Take fighting games for instance (or any game where you don't get upgrades for winning). In fighting games you play just to fight. But before long many turn up the difficulty, and when that no-longer presents a challenge, they to find human opponents that are more creative. If that's not enough for them they go to EVO. That's just one example.

 

The same applies here.Once you know how to beat that boss with a team, you'll solo it, and once you can solo it you'll want to move on (unless it can't be soloed for some reason, but that just means you'll move on faster). So no, I don't think Warframe can be the game to "break" that, because there's nothing to break.

 

This is why PvP has been one of the most requested features from the beginning: it's the most efficient way of making sure that sense of progression -of "something to do next"- is always there. Making an end-game that doesn't rely on other players, and doesn't seem repetitive is really hard.

 

I have no interest in PvP in Warframe. And precious little interest in terms of PvP in any game that offers robust PvE content.

Though, that does not mean I see it as a bad thing. There are many other players than myself to consider, and I'm sure they appreciate what DE is doing in terms of adding that type of content.

My point is that the term "End Game" has been warped over the last 15+ years. Games aren't "beaten" anymore. Especially not ones with persistent online user data. And unless players are willing to accept the challenge of "The same thing, but now at a higher level with Forma'ed Weapons instead of new weapons with stronger base stats." There IS an upper ceiling of what is achievable in terms of PvE. And most players (as you've astutle pointed out) will then seek PvP.

What I'm saying is will Warframe avoid bending to the player's inherent desire to achive greater plateaus by providing them with the means to do so, that (ostensibly) undervalues the time invested by players previous to that tier? Or, will they figure out some new paradigm for keeping the player's interest in PvE [as well as PvP]?

 

[smilingplague]

my thoughts on "endgame" is that the devs will probably just continue adding weapons and frames to farm, with new bosses to fight to get them, this may not sound all that good, but there may be hope.They may go in other directions to add more replayability, such as going further with the pvp, delving deeper in to the story with more missions on that, or raid fights.

 

PVP

with pvp they could make it fairer by making the ones who join the arena degrade to warframe base stats (no mods) and no sentinels, and with this add more pvp scenarios (ctf, defense, tdm). Also with adding more dinamic arenas.

i know this may be a bad idea but its an idea and you will have your own opinion

 

Raids

raids i think would be a great idea. greater teams of tenno (8 -10 tenno) fighting greater bosses, more challenging odds, and of course better loot.

this could really be cool but yes they need to fixing the network code, to get smoother games to better support more players on one mission.

 

STORY

one idea that i think would be really cool is to actually meet Lotus in game. The first mission in which you meet her could be called coronation, in which the tenno are called to witness Lotus becoming the new leader in the tenno's rise to power with an official coronation. it starts on an orokin ship in a massive throne room with lotus in the front while many tenno (non-players) along with you and your team kneel and acknowledge Lotus as she is crowned head of operations, but then grineer attack and you fight along non-player tenno to protect Lotus in which multiple grineer bosses come in one after another making it a defense/boss mission.

 

these are just some thoughts, and you are inclined to your own opinion