Compared To Other F2P Games, The Rng Isn't Even Bad.

[EnzoVulkoor]

Basically the title. There are several (very successful, I may add) games where the chance to get a fully upgraded item takes extreme luck. I'm talking getting a 10% item to succeed 10 times in a row, and paying real money to reverse the damages if it fails. The amount of money required takes hundreds of dollars or months of merching to gather enough money. Here in warframe you can easily farm prime weapons or mats for clan weapons in a relatively short amount of time. Several days of casual playing can easily get you a couple nice weapons or frames. I feel like some of you who really complain about RNG are not frequent MMO-ers. If DE wants Warframe to be successful, they do need to increase the longevity of the game. If this means making blueprints cost 3x more than the last ones, then so be it. We've been spoiled far too long enjoying the simple "it took me 30 runs to get all my frame pieces". Try farming for a mount in WoW. It'll take you weeks of hardcore playing. Really. For one mount. You think a guaranteed nekro drop after a couple hours of farming is bad? Try .01% chance to drop after waiting hours for a rare spawn.

 

tl;dr We're too spoiled and the RNG isn't even bad especially compared to other games.

 

I feel like most of this is directed towards games like Perfect World and other crappy games made in Asia.

Nexon and PWI aren't really something to call the standard of gaming.

 

Warframe isn't even in the same category as world of warcraft, Everquest 1/2 (hell even Next), Perfect world, Guild Wars 1/2, Ultima Online, Secret World, Anarchy Online, Star Wars Galaxies/TOR, Champions Online, Star Trek Online, Dungeon and Dragons online, Rift, Defiance, Lord of the rings online, ETC

 

All these games allow you to work with large members of a clan or community through every step of your farming/grind. EVERY STEP.

 

For 99% of our actions we spend them working with only. ONLY 3 other people. It's only in the dojo can we pool resources and that is only to make a blueprint.

 

In those OTHER MMO's you claim Warframe is on par with.. They have near limitless groups/raids.

 

and guess what? A Trade system

 

That's right trading. Even items that are pickup locked can be traded or auctioned off at some point. Hell they even have legitimate auction houses besides that method too. Those other games even have DKP systems where people can bid with how many awarded raid points they have gotten as a means to claim rights to loot.

 

 

So this standard you are trying to make gets invalidated as there are other ways players in those games can get what they want. They aren't locked into a one way only situation.

 

Warframe only has grind with 3 others for a chance of X, have clan grind to make blue print after grinding with 3 others per person to get X mats, and finally grind to make X blueprint with 3 others.

 

Theres no "Well I have a stako ton of salvage and you have a ton of ferrite. Well lets make a deal you make my rifle, I'll make your pistol."

 

Warframe has no Trading, Auctioning, Crafting professions of any sort. All there is on warframe is rolling the RNG dice and praying to the gods of RNG for a chance. Yet that dice we have to roll has been loaded against us time and time again.

[WeissKreuz]

Borderlands, you forgot borderlands. As silly as it was, you knew WHO you were fighting and WHY.

I feel so ashamed, I am sorry sir.

[Fate_6]

Basically the title. There are several (very successful, I may add) games where the chance to get a fully upgraded item takes extreme luck. I'm talking getting a 10% item to succeed 10 times in a row, and paying real money to reverse the damages if it fails. The amount of money required takes hundreds of dollars or months of merching to gather enough money. Here in warframe you can easily farm prime weapons or mats for clan weapons in a relatively short amount of time. Several days of casual playing can easily get you a couple nice weapons or frames. I feel like some of you who really complain about RNG are not frequent MMO-ers. If DE wants Warframe to be successful, they do need to increase the longevity of the game. If this means making blueprints cost 3x more than the last ones, then so be it. We've been spoiled far too long enjoying the simple "it took me 30 runs to get all my frame pieces". Try farming for a mount in WoW. It'll take you weeks of hardcore playing. Really. For one mount. You think a guaranteed nekro drop after a couple hours of farming is bad? Try .01% chance to drop after waiting hours for a rare spawn.

 

tl;dr We're too spoiled and the RNG isn't even bad especially compared to other games.

Several days of casual playing will not get you any primes or clan weapons. It takes a decent amount of grinding to get a single Mass/Injector/Fieldron because of the Plastid requirement. You also need a Forma and the other "common" materials (5000+ Ferrite or Salvage).

 

I have yet to complete a SINGLE Prime after a few hundred hours of playing. There's nothing casual about getting them.

 

Oh, and other F2P games don't really need RNG to be successful. Case in point - LoL, MWO, DotA2. The things I am more inclined to spend on in this game are colors and skins. I don't want to spend on things I can get in-game. The only thing in the shop I'm inclined to buy is Nekros because it requires a gross amount of time to actually make. Like, a lot of farming just to fight the boss once. Who knows how long it takes to actually get the parts. And for what, Nyx 2.0?

[KvotheTheArcane1]

I feel so ashamed, I am sorry sir.

It's ok, all is forgiven xD the plot is kinda glossed over anyways compared to the games you mentioned. It's there, don't get me wrong, but it's not a huge major focus (but they did make the plot/story SO MUCH better in the second game)

[akaSM]

Warframe's RNG isn't as bad as WoW's

 

Because Warframe is a MMORPG too.

[Fate_6]

every idea seems to be about making warframes and weapons easier to obtain.

of course it is all about grind, but actually i have fun while grinding, so obviously they did sth right.

and endgame, endgame.

give me some suggestions for your endgame.

what's the endgame in diablo?

what's the endgame in ANY 'action rpg'?

the only thing they ever do is adding more and more grind.

warframe devs already added sth with huge potential. i just wish they recognize and use it.

and NO, it is not pvp.

I'm gonna just throw this out there - Pokemon.

 

It's a grindy game, you have to find the right Pokemon, level them, breed them, etc. But there is clearly an end-game. You fight other players and there is a battle tower (at least in some, I haven't played newer ones much), where you face real challenges and it's generally quite fun.

 

Warframe moved in the right direction with the Conclaves, because PvP is the ultimate endgame of any ARPG other than speed runs. And speed runs are only fun if the fights are actually interesting. As much as I complained about D3 (it was a really flawed game, afterall) the original Inferno difficulty, plus boss mechanics and elite mob packs, made the runs very intense. It was frustrating sometimes, but you were always on your toes engaging enemies that could kill you in a second if you slipped up. Warframe doesn't have that. Limited ammo just means we have limited weapon options, and the Warframe builds are extremely limited as well. And as we get to high enemy levels the AI still stays incredibly dumb and the Warframe abilities still stay incredibly strong (See: Vauban+Frost immortal defense setup). It takes longer to kill the enemy but not more skill.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Because Warframe is a MMORPG too.

No, It's massive, it's multiplayer, and it's online. It is not Massive and Multiplayer at the same time, you run missions with up to 3 other people. Unless you're a hermit/recluse, that's not a massive amount of people.

[Jhakoon]

first: you must not compare warframe to single player games, because sp games always have an end. they don't have to deal with kids rushing through content and complaining about nothing left to do afterwards.

the story on the other hand is sth warframe lacks in, but honestly i don't miss it.

second: pvp is NOT a choice for warframe's endgame. it is a gimmick within a pve game, if you want pvp go play pvp games. there are other possibities to keep warframe challenging.

[ForumSmurf]

League of legends. Play 8 hours a day for an entire week to afford one 6300 champion. Thats a token system. here all i gotta do is farm a boss fro 45 minutes and i get a whole new champion to play with. People who play warframe im afraid just aren't gamers. Srs play any other game and you'll see this is like giving away its content.

Edited September 20, 2013 by ForumSmurf

[KvotheTheArcane1]

League of legends. Play 8 hours a day for an entire week to afford one 6300 champion. Thats a token system. here all i gotta do is farm a boss fro 45 minutes and i get a whole new champion to play with. People who play warframe im afraid just aren't gamers. Srs play any other game and you'll see this is like giving away its content.

...if RNG favors you. Otherwise that 8hrs looks wonderful for a champion at max price. There are plenty of cheaper champions.

[ForumSmurf]

...if RNG favors you. Otherwise that 8hrs looks wonderful for a champion at max price. There are plenty of cheaper champions.

8 hours per day for a week. Thats 56 hours. to play a new character. I don't care what people say about warframe rng. 1.5 hours absolute maximum to farm a frame off the boss's If people are claiming otherwise they are lieing. 

 

 

Lets see 56 hours vs 1.5 hours. thats almost 30 times more farm to get one playable character. Lol vs warframe. I own 90 characters on lol and am a diamond player im very familiar with this game. It takes about 1 year of solid play to get an account going with max runes and a decent champion pool to compete. This game i got everything in 4 weeks. Literally 90% all game content in 4 solid weeks. 

Edited September 20, 2013 by ForumSmurf

[KvotheTheArcane1]

8 hours per day for a week. Thats 56 hours. to play a new character. I don't care what people say about warframe rng. 1.5 hours absolute maximum to farm a frame off the boss's If people are claiming otherwise they are lieing. 

pffff, clearly you've never gotten unlucky. I had to run jackal 60 times before I got the systems, that took, EASILY 2-3 hours.

 

Lets see 56 hours vs 1.5 hours. thats almost 30 times more farm to get one playable character. Lol vs warframe

Again, you're taking the most expensive characters available, so I'm gonna take the cheapest, which take ~450IP, which is maybe 4 games. How this works, is you instead take the average price.

Edited September 20, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[ForumSmurf]

you want to math battle? because i will take the price of every champion and i will find the average and i will make you see how much it costs. I have over 90 champions im not clueless about lol's pricing. 

 

The average is around 3500ish ip that's about 25-30 hours of game play depending on how much you win. And you know as well as i know all the cheap champions are the old ones. Who wants to play that S#&$. 

Edited September 20, 2013 by ForumSmurf

[ForumSmurf]

pffff, clearly you've never gotten unlucky. I had to run jackal 60 times before I got the systems, that took, EASILY 2-3 hours.

 

i've factored that in but its a statistic i've controled. When i'm getting really unlucky. I equip my absolute best gear and volt. And i run like 100 times in 1.5 hours. Farming in warframe is controlabe farming for a lol champion is not. Again your talking about mere hours. In lol we have to talk about weeks for just your first solid rune page. 

 

An average Ap carry rune page can cost up to 43 thousand ip. I remember finishing my first run page an counted that cost and it ended up being 23k ip. It took me 4 weeks to farm it.

Edited September 20, 2013 by ForumSmurf

[GSGregory]

Ran both rhino and ember drops roughly 100 times each to get them.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

you want to math battle because i will take the price of every champion and i will find the average and i will make you see how much it costs. I have over 90 champions im not clueless about lol's pricing.

Neither am I.

 

The average is around 3500ish ip that's about 25-30 hours of game play depending on how much you win. And you know as well as i know all the cheap champions are the old ones. Who wants to play that S#&$. 

Average price is 3826, however they also have VERY reasonable RP prices (no champ costs more than $10), and a free selection each week, AND you're not farming for parts, it's not "Boy, after these 100 runs I'm not getting anywhere! I STILL need that one bit." it's "Gee, I might have played 100 games, but I can see my goal getting closer!"

 

 

i've factored that in but its a statistic i've controled. When i'm getting really unlucky. I equip my absolute best gear and volt. And i run like 100 times in 1.5 hours. Farming in warframe is controlabe farming for a lol champion is not. Again your talking about mere hours. In lol we have to talk about weeks for just your first solid rune page. 

 

An average Ap carry rune page can cost up to 43 thousand ip. I remember finishing my first run page an counted that cost and it ended up being 23k ip. It took me 4 weeks to farm it.

BullS#&$. 100 runs in 90 minutes? The BOSS fight can take a minute alone + travel to extraction can take a minute. Hell, I think we can assume the mission can take a minute minimum, ESPECIALLY if we count the 10 second timer for solo mode, loading, etc.

Edited September 20, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[Judgebanks]

I can't even think of a worse game. I would say guild wars RNG but to be honest that wasn't bad at all.

Guild Wars was pretty good, Guild Wars 2 can F*** right off.

[ForumSmurf]

i implore you to learn logic fallacy because you've just committed like 5 but besides the point. Arguments aside. 4 weeks of hardcore gameplay and i own 90% of warframe content and have about 7 million credit surplus. After 2 years of Lol hardcore competitive play. I still have about 8 champions i don't own and about 30% runes that are non competitive left. Facts do not lie only ridiculous logic fallacies. 

 

 

2 years compare to 4 weeks. 

 

i have zero dollars invested into lol obviously if i invested dollars in both games these measurments would change but then thats not a fair assessment of price/farm/grind value.

Edited September 20, 2013 by ForumSmurf

[GSGregory]

i implore you to learn logic fallacy because you've just committed like 5 but besides the point. Arguments aside. 4 weeks of hardcore gameplay and i own 90% of warframe content and have about 7 million credit surplus. After 2 years of Lol hardcore competitive play. I still have about 8 champions i don't own and about 30% runes that are non competitive left. Facts do not lie only ridiculous logic fallacies. 

 

 

2 years compare to 4 weeks. 

 

 

LoL has much, much more content.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

 

"i implore you to learn logic fallacy because you've just committed like 5 but besides the point"

What, you mean not believing you can run a boss mission in roughly 54 seconds?

 

"Arguments aside. 4 weeks of hardcore gameplay and i own 90% of warframe content and have about 7 million credit surplus. After 2 years of Lol hardcore competitive play. I still have about 8 champions i don't own and about 30% runes that are non competitive left."

LoL has been out how much longer? Weapons that don't have to be balanced (wf) are how much easier to push out than champions which have to be rigorously balanced?

 

"Facts do not lie only ridiculous logic fallacies."

Pffff that's funny, because it's true, yet you don't really know what it means I feel. If I'm using a logical fallacy, please state which.

Edited September 20, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[ForumSmurf]

LoL has much, much more content.

110ish characters. 50 ish items. 3 maps.

 

 

70ish weapons,  13ish characters. A F*** TON of tile sets. Adding a new item or champion takes relatively little production value. Making an entire ship to traverse takes a S#&$ ton of artistic effort. Every tileset room has to be hand built.   

Edited September 20, 2013 by ForumSmurf

[KvotheTheArcane1]

110ish characters. 50 ish items. 3 maps.

 

 

70ish weapons,  13ish characters. A F*** TON of tile sets. Adding a new item or champion takes relatively little production value. Making an entire ship to traverse takes a S#&$ ton of artistic effort. Every tileset room has to be hand built.   

No, in WF they go through basic balancing, if even that, but a champion, or item has to be RIGOROUSLY balanced because it's gonna be used in competitive play, and if it's OP/UP it'll have to be balanced again anyways. The ART takes little time, the balance does not.

[ForumSmurf]

you see thats your problem now your double talking you lost sight of the debate. The debate is Warframe is grindy or not grindy compare to lol not game balance. You've done nothing to prove lol is less grindy while i've given solid facts as to why lol is exactly 10x more grindy. Thats called double talking logic fallacy debating tactics. Please remove game balance and content value from your argument we are talking about Warframe takes alot of time to grind which i have debunked it doesn't.

Edited September 20, 2013 by ForumSmurf

[syle]

League of legends. Play 8 hours a day for an entire week to afford one 6300 champion. Thats a token system. here all i gotta do is farm a boss fro 45 minutes and i get a whole new champion to play with. People who play warframe im afraid just aren't gamers. Srs play any other game and you'll see this is like giving away its content.

 

the difference is you can run void for a year and not get the latron prime (just an example I don't care if you got it in 4 runs) , ever

its not very likely but its possible

with token system that wouldn't be the case would it ?

[KvotheTheArcane1]

you see thats your problem now your double talking you lost sight of the debate. The debate is Warframe is grindy or not grindy compare to lo not game balancel. You've done nothing to prove lol is less grindy while i've given solid facts as to why lol is exactly 10x more grindy. Thats called double talking logic fallacy debating tactics.

inb4 DEFLECT. LoL might be more grindy, but the method it uses is better. Why? Everyone will earn everything in roughly the same time, but with RNG you could have people who won't get one bit for months or years, because RNG. Also, as far as I can find, double talking isn't a logical fallacy, it's more of a deflection.

Edited September 20, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1